Other > Suggestions
Thief Alarm
Kirkor:
--- Quote from: HertogJan on November 20, 2010, 02:54:25 PM ---Still the thief might be a regular customer doing a lot of trading with the shopkeeper.
All shopowners in the game care about is themselves.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, but nobody will trade in shop, where they can rob you? So trader will have no customers in short time and he will bancrupt...
--- Quote from: HertogJan on November 20, 2010, 02:54:25 PM ---There are a whole lot more annoying things in game.
--- End quote ---
That doesn't mean that you can't repair one of those annoying things like thievery.
--- Quote from: HertogJan on November 20, 2010, 02:54:25 PM ---All that that thief shouting will result to is the game chat being full of people shouting thieves.
Your solution for that won't fix this as will it not do anything about thieving.
--- End quote ---
Agreed. This will cause even more annoying "omg thief!" spam.
--- Quote from: HertogJan on November 20, 2010, 02:54:25 PM ---I simply steal from you and my buddy bursts you.
--- End quote ---
So why steal then when you can just loot the body? o.O
--- Quote from: HertogJan on November 20, 2010, 02:54:25 PM ---I really don't get all the complaints about thieving, most likely from people who never played as 1.
--- End quote ---
Do I have to play annoying other people to know it's just abused skill?
--- Quote from: HertogJan on November 20, 2010, 02:54:25 PM ---It is so easy to avoid thieves as they are easily recognizable by their behavior.
--- End quote ---
Ofcourse it's easy, when some asshole run behind you for whole day and you can't do anything about it when he use 'steal' animation (FA, repair etc) on you whole time.
--- Quote from: HertogJan on November 20, 2010, 02:54:25 PM ---It's no difference from avoiding taggers camping near the exit grid.
--- End quote ---
I don't understand how people get owned by taggers? You can see them when going on world map... And just throw them out from squad...
--- Quote from: HertogJan on November 20, 2010, 02:54:25 PM ---IMO the only real problem with thieving is the animation being the same as FA, switching inventory, etc.
hat helps thieves to harass their potential victims in such a way it's impossible to trade.
--- End quote ---
Exactly. But thieves should be somehow punished for they actions. I mean: thiev can be spotted ONLY when he fails to take item from your inventory. It is not risk for them coz:
1. Checking your inventory is not any risk. Coz you are still guarded...
2. Thieves are bluesuits so they don't loose nothing even when they are spotted and killed.
3. They come back after 2 minutes and again they are guarded and must fail at stealing to kill them again, so back to point 1.
4. They are often assholes who just want to annoy you, using 'steal' animations on you whole the time and following you everywhere...
--- Quote from: HertogJan on November 20, 2010, 02:54:25 PM ---TI do have a thief account, but believe we should have a unique steal animation. Preferably combined with a 2nd stealing cooldown which prevents a thief from stealing from the same victim for the next 5 minutes. That cooldown could be visible for both the thief and his victim.
--- End quote ---
This would require alot of animation work, which will not be done by devs (I'm 100% sure of it, coz it take hell of a work and there can be better ideas for annoying thievery)
HertogJan:
--- Quote from: Kirkor on November 20, 2010, 06:52:14 PM ---Yeah, but nobody will trade in shop, where they can rob you? So trader will have no customers in short time and he will bancrupt...
--- End quote ---
People always want or need caps, so they'll come.
They are currently already risking to get shot by shop shooters or when they go into unguarded towns by PK.
--- Quote from: Kirkor on November 20, 2010, 06:52:14 PM ---That doesn't mean that you can't repair one of those annoying things like thievery.
--- End quote ---
Than why is the focus always aimed at this?
--- Quote from: Kirkor on November 20, 2010, 06:52:14 PM ---So why steal then when you can just loot the body? o.O
--- End quote ---
True. Steal would only be used to determine if someone has an inventory worth trying.
--- Quote from: Kirkor on November 20, 2010, 06:52:14 PM ---Do I have to play annoying other people to know it's just abused skill?
--- End quote ---
You flame someone about his grammar, but your's is not exactly good either.
I don't understand what you mean.
Steal skill is used for stealing. I fail to see the abuse in using a skill for the purpose it's meant to be used for.
--- Quote from: Kirkor on November 20, 2010, 06:52:14 PM ---Ofcourse it's easy, when some asshole run behind you for whole day and you can't do anything about it when he use 'steal' animation (FA, repair etc) on you whole time.
--- End quote ---
Several suggestions, some by me, have been made in several threads to fix this.
I even made them in the reply you quoted.
--- Quote from: Kirkor on November 20, 2010, 06:52:14 PM ---I don't understand how people get owned by taggers? You can see them when going on world map... And just throw them out from squad...
--- End quote ---
Low PE characters might not see them in time, especially not when the tagger has a high sneak skill.
Still they don't bother me as I look for them. Unfortunately not everyone, and especially new players, don't.
--- Quote from: Kirkor on November 20, 2010, 06:52:14 PM ---Exactly. But thieves should be somehow punished for they actions. I mean: thiev can be spotted ONLY when he fails to take item from your inventory. It is not risk for them coz:
1. Checking your inventory is not any risk. Coz you are still guarded...
2. Thieves are bluesuits so they don't loose nothing even when they are spotted and killed.
3. They come back after 2 minutes and again they are guarded and must fail at stealing to kill them again, so back to point 1.
4. They are often assholes who just want to annoy you, using 'steal' animations on you whole the time and following you everywhere...
--- End quote ---
1. This is not a problem except when it comes to potential shooter & looter teams.
2. They loose rep and time and everyone knows them quite fast which will make things a lot harder for them.
3. If you would read more threads concerning stealing, you would know that this is a bug. It's not supposed to be like this. Failing thieves should be unprotected for a while, even after death.
4. I think I was clear about this in my previous reply.
--- Quote from: Kirkor on November 20, 2010, 06:52:14 PM --- This would require alot of animation work, which will not be done by devs (I'm 100% sure of it, coz it take hell of a work and there can be better ideas for annoying thievery)
--- End quote ---
Only animation that needs to be changed is the stealing animation.
If you have better ideas, suggest them.
IMO thievery is fine the way it works.
Most people are aware of thieves and keep an eye out for them.
Once again: if you are stolen from, it's your fault as you didn't pay attention.
Kirkor:
--- Quote from: HertogJan on November 21, 2010, 05:33:21 PM ---People always want or need caps, so they'll come.
They are currently already risking to get shot by shop shooters or when they go into unguarded towns by PK.
--- End quote ---
I was talking about RL situation. Shoopshooters, kamikaze and shop stealing accepted by shopkeeper is impossible in RL.
--- Quote from: HertogJan on November 21, 2010, 05:33:21 PM ---Than why is the focus always aimed at this?
--- End quote ---
Not always. There are billion other topics about other skills, bugs, suggestions...
--- Quote from: HertogJan on November 21, 2010, 05:33:21 PM ---You flame someone about his grammar, but your's is not exactly good either.
--- End quote ---
Lol? I never flame noone about his grammar.
--- Quote from: HertogJan on November 21, 2010, 05:33:21 PM ---I don't understand what you mean.
--- End quote ---
So read the quote before my sentence and then read my response. I mean that you don't have to play a thief, to now that this skill is abused by many players.
--- Quote from: HertogJan on November 21, 2010, 05:33:21 PM ---Steal skill is used for stealing. I fail to see the abuse in using a skill for the purpose it's meant to be used for.
--- End quote ---
Well, its also used to piss you off, by just simply following you and to not to let you buy stuff in peace.
--- Quote from: HertogJan on November 21, 2010, 05:33:21 PM ---Several suggestions, some by me, have been made in several threads to fix this.
I even made them in the reply you quoted.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, I know. But devs doesn't seem to see the problem about annoyance caused by overusing steal skill.
And this topic is to suggest some ideas and to choose the best one. I have my own, little different idea to yours.
--- Quote from: HertogJan on November 21, 2010, 05:33:21 PM ---Low PE characters might not see them in time, especially not when the tagger has a high sneak skill.
Still they don't bother me as I look for them. Unfortunately not everyone, and especially new players, don't.
--- End quote ---
I also sometimes don't see them, but as soon as i enter the WM, I see they following me.
--- Quote from: HertogJan on November 21, 2010, 05:33:21 PM ---1. This is not a problem except when it comes to potential shooter & looter teams.
2. They loose rep and time and everyone knows them quite fast which will make things a lot harder for them.
3. If you would read more threads concerning stealing, you would know that this is a bug. It's not supposed to be like this. Failing thieves should be unprotected for a while, even after death.
4. I think I was clear about this in my previous reply.
--- End quote ---
1. For me it is a problem. Coz its just stupidly impossible to check someones stuff (even exactly amount of caps) without causing any suspicion of the guards.
2. Lol, like they care about rep... And not everyone know them, coz not everybody stay at NCR 24/7. Also that doesn't matter, coz still they can rob you, when you are trading...
3. I don't look at all topics which were made 3 months ago. I look only on new topics, and not all of them.
--- Quote from: HertogJan on November 21, 2010, 05:33:21 PM ---Only animation that needs to be changed is the stealing animation.
If you have better ideas, suggest them.
--- End quote ---
So suggest how this animation would look. Making One short animation is like 30 pictures for EVERY skin. So... count by yourself.
--- Quote from: HertogJan on November 21, 2010, 05:33:21 PM ---IMO thievery is fine the way it works.
Most people are aware of thieves and keep an eye out for them.
Once again: if you are stolen from, it's your fault as you didn't pay attention.
--- End quote ---
Nope, it's not good imo. It's just annoying if you can't kill asshole after he comes back from the dead. You cant do anything when he steals from you and not fails. You cant do anything, when he fails, guards shoot&loot him. Every time the one who looses something is AVERAGE PLAYER not thief. Thief looses nothing. So it's unfair = it is not working fine.
Also, you almost started flame here, only coz I didn't agree with you. It's game, chill.
Opera:
--- Quote from: Kirkor on November 22, 2010, 11:05:42 PM ---You cant do anything, when he fails, guards shoot&loot him.
--- End quote ---
Actually, that's not true. When thief fails -> you will get a notice that xx tried to steal from you. If guards notice that someone stole something from you -> guards will notice you about it.
In these cases, anyone can shoot this thief.
If your character or guards won't notice the stealing -> thief was successful. You can't shoot him. What would guards think, if you start shooting "innocent" people?
I'm not sure, but there might be 3th case when you can shoot a thief too: Thief gets the item, but your character notices this.
HertogJan:
--- Quote from: Kirkor on November 22, 2010, 11:05:42 PM ---I was talking about RL situation. Shoopshooters, kamikaze and shop stealing accepted by shopkeeper is impossible in RL.
--- End quote ---
So is respawning after being killed.
--- Quote from: Kirkor on November 22, 2010, 11:05:42 PM ---Not always. There are billion other topics about other skills, bugs, suggestions...
--- End quote ---
Yet when it comes to abuse or exploiting and suggestions for it, we're mostly talking stealing.
--- Quote from: Kirkor on November 22, 2010, 11:05:42 PM ---Lol? I never flame noone about his grammar.
--- End quote ---
You did in 1 of the other forums, I'm too lazy to search for it.
--- Quote from: Kirkor on November 22, 2010, 11:05:42 PM ---So read the quote before my sentence and then read my response. I mean that you don't have to play a thief, to now that this skill is abused by many players.
--- End quote ---
People use steal skill for stealing. No abuse there.
--- Quote from: Kirkor on November 22, 2010, 11:05:42 PM ---Well, its also used to piss you off, by just simply following you and to not to let you buy stuff in peace.
--- End quote ---
You don't have to be a thief for that. Pretending to be one is enough. THAT is abuse of steal skill and animation. I can do this by using other skills than steal as the animation is the same. That means I can do this with every none thief alt.
--- Quote from: Kirkor on November 22, 2010, 11:05:42 PM ---Yeah, I know. But devs doesn't seem to see the problem about annoyance caused by overusing steal skill.
And this topic is to suggest some ideas and to choose the best one. I have my own, little different idea to yours.
--- End quote ---
You can use steal skill every 30 seconds. As suggested by me before, there should be a cooldown of 5 minutes for every victim you steal from. Thus 30 seconds steal cooldown and 5 minutes before you can steal from that same person again.
--- Quote from: Kirkor on November 22, 2010, 11:05:42 PM ---I also sometimes don't see them, but as soon as i enter the WM, I see they following me.
--- End quote ---
You and I know, but plenty of new players don't.
--- Quote from: Kirkor on November 22, 2010, 11:05:42 PM ---1. For me it is a problem. Coz its just stupidly impossible to check someones stuff (even exactly amount of caps) without causing any suspicion of the guards.
2. Lol, like they care about rep... And not everyone know them, coz not everybody stay at NCR 24/7. Also that doesn't matter, coz still they can rob you, when you are trading...
3. I don't look at all topics which were made 3 months ago. I look only on new topics, and not all of them.
So suggest how this animation would look. Making One short animation is like 30 pictures for EVERY skin. So... count by yourself.
Nope, it's not good imo. It's just annoying if you can't kill asshole after he comes back from the dead. You cant do anything when he steals from you and not fails. You cant do anything, when he fails, guards shoot&loot him. Every time the one who looses something is AVERAGE PLAYER not thief. Thief looses nothing. So it's unfair = it is not working fine.
Also, you almost started flame here, only coz I didn't agree with you. It's game, chill.
--- End quote ---
1. It's easy to do. No abuse or anything. Or do you think it's normally to hide a few dozen kilos of stuff under a blue suit without it being spotted?
2. I have seen thieves with reps of around -1500. And yes for them that's a problem. Also traveling is a bitch when rep is below -300 as you'll be shot on sight in encounters with that faction. Stay in NCR 1 hour a day and you know a lot of them. You can always be robbed when trading. It's part of the game.
3. Use the search. New animation would fix the problem. I know it's a lot of work. If they come back from the dead they are supposed to be unprotected for a while. It has been said before. Stealing is part of the game. If the thief succeeds, bad luck for you. Be more careful next and keep an eye out for thieves. When a thief fails, you can shoot him. Guards looting people is just increasing their daily income I think. Thief loses rep, loses time and if it works as it's supposed to, thief is unprotected in that town for while.
No flame. I'm just trying to explain to you that YOU are to blame when YOU don't pay attention at the people around you when YOU are trading.
--- Quote from: Opera on November 23, 2010, 08:47:35 AM ---Actually, that's not true. When thief fails -> you will get a notice that xx tried to steal from you. If guards notice that someone stole something from you -> guards will notice you about it.
In these cases, anyone can shoot this thief.
If your character or guards won't notice the stealing -> thief was successful. You can't shoot him. What would guards think, if you start shooting "innocent" people?
I'm not sure, but there might be 3th case when you can shoot a thief too: Thief gets the item, but your character notices this.
--- End quote ---
As far as I know there are only 2 ways, but I might be wrong:
1. You see a message in your message box stating xxx tried to steal from you. Guards don't say anything. The thief is unprotected, you can shoot the thief. I think this can happen with both a succesful and failed steal attempt. Although to me it seems rare with a succesful steal. It's more common with a succesful steal from an npc (roughly 1 every 15-20 steal attempts.
2. You don't see a message in your message box, but guards say xxx is interested in your belongings or to xxx that he just failed. Either way, the thief becomes unprocted and you can shoot the thief.
When stealing from npc there's the option to have a successful steal, yet you become unprotected (-25 rep points visible in character sheet).
There's no mention from guards, the npc or in the thief's message box.
Off course there's also the option of failing stealing from an npc and being attacked by that npc and by the guards.
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