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[Trokanis]

i dont like all of the ideas i heard here. The truly great thing about fonline is that it is so harsh, so mean and so "exploitable". I played a endless horde of generic human paladins, gay elves and stuff. But i never had a game where i could rip people off everything they possess. But still i think death is most of the time avoidable. When ur totally new its really really hard i know.

So here maybe a little idea how you could change this in guarded town murderer thing. Maybe it would be cool if really near standing guards could fire before you fire when u try to kill somebody. Like professional Guards that fire as soon as somebody draws a weapon.

But i would really hate it if it was like in the guarded part of NCR where u just get shot for carrying a weapon.

Or the above idea where in a guarded town there is no choice.  I agree the amount of freedom in this game is refreshing, however after the more than 100th time of being killed by a group of people all geared and camping just for you because you're not a challenge and losing any and all that you just spent hours working to get.  Harsh is harsh, overly abundant harshness over and over and over, is just not fun, and quite boring. 

[HertogJan]

IMO, the protection of towns should extend to the immediate area they surround. If you kill someone in an encounter with marauders and NCR patrol, you should still take an NCR rep hit. Likewise, in the boneyard, I can't tell you how many times i've killed people in plain sight of the regulators, only for them to basically congratulate me on the kill and then try to steal the loot themselves. am i wrong in thinking the regulators by FO lore should be shooting me and helping my victims, not waiting to steal my loot?

This makes sense.
Currently only VC patrols and caravans shoot an attacker when the victim is a VC citizen.
It makes no difference whether or not the attacker is a VC citizen too.

Something like the above should extend to a player's protection status with the town.
If you lost it, an attacker should be able to shoot you in front of patrols and should allow you to keep the loot.

So here maybe a little idea how you could change this in guarded town murderer thing. Maybe it would be cool if really near standing guards could fire before you fire when u try to kill somebody. Like professional Guards that fire as soon as somebody draws a weapon.

I think this is a good suggestion for the inner city of NCR and VC.
It's also a good suggestion for shops.

[avv]

@zato1

Localized reputation would only work if the reputation itself couldn't be waved back and forth by first doing something bad and then repaying that by doing something "good".

[zato1]

@zato1

Localized reputation would only work if the reputation itself couldn't be waved back and forth by first doing something bad and then repaying that by doing something "good".

yes, i fear such things would be deemed too harsh though... near permanent reputation damage? not in my fallouts!

[avv]

yes, i fear such things would be deemed too harsh though... near permanent reputation damage? not in my fallouts!

If someone really starts to regret his actions, he could be given a chance to repay to the victim and the -rep would be lifted. We could have a system at each secured town's law enforcement center where victims of assault could report in. The report would reduce the rep of the criminal and would only be lifted if the criminal pays a fine in caps and the victim agrees to take the caps. If the criminal has managed to become so hated that he's shot on sight at the city's gates, well he shoulda thought about that before pulling the trigger.
But otherwise, perma -rep - why not? The game isn't harsh enough for criminals, they have it easy right now. Criminals don't belong to the streets of socialized cities, but to lurk the highways and ruins for unfortunate travellers. Besides, being hated by someone means that you might be loved by his enemies. For example raiders might be interested in hiring you if you were hated by VC. Then again if someone just wants to fuck the world and cause troubble everywhere, he should expect nothing else in return.

[Trokanis]

And if you read carefully in the posts that suggested Karma effects from these actions, that karma would return in time as it does even when you join the Raiders, or Enclave.  It would just mean a few days of thinking about whether or not your actions in that town were really worth it.  Especially if you're stuck in your hotel room in the Hub, or worse ejected from it til your Rep returns thus maybe losing the items you had in there.