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Small guns

Big guns

Energy weapons

Throwing weapons

Melee weapons

Unarmed

Exposives (bombs)

I am pacifist

[Lordus]

 Hello,
 as you know, i am former member of VSB. VSB is here from the begining of this opend beta project. Some members left, another joined.

 Our gang website is related to very old and very good Fallout fan site www.madbrahmin.cz ( i think that cca 10 years old website), so many players of Fallout sometimes visit this web for checking new updates, scenarios or just to talk. This is also our best way how to recruit newbies, or at least, how to help them.

 We have kind of application form for newbies, who wants to join us (VSB gang). One part of this dutie is to post yoiur own SPECIAL and other atributes screen. So we have very good statistical sample of newbies. We can simply recognize, if that player did play fonline or did not, because total newbies have their char attributes created from their Fallout single player experience. And here comes the reason cause of i created this thread.

 Small gunners aplication number was in same relation like biggunner, only minority was EW.. Most newbies were smallgunners, because they expected that the way from start is quite easy with 10mm pistol, than waiting many days for new big gun.

 Smalll gunners, all of them (except returning exmembers) created always the same mistake. I will tell you later, which kind of mistake. At first, i have to simply define something well known.

 In PvP, 2 kind of builds now win. 1) big constant damage on low and medium range 2) possibility of very big or instakill damage on high range. In first cathegory there are biggunners bursters, in second cathegory there are EW snipers, SG snipers and BG rocket launcher snipers*.

 The newbies SG mistake is that, that they expected, thay will level up their char and they will be able to succeed in PvP. (Yes, they expected this, because in out aplication form is also question Why they want to join us and very common answer is Because we dont want to be simple punished by PKs.). But they have a very big problem in their character building vision. NOBODY from SG newbies created their char with 10 pe and at least 6 luck. Most of them had 7 pe, and smaller luck. Some of them had tagged Fast shot trait.

 So problem is, that they expected their char will be able to defend on higher level but they are unable. Their character is unable to use sniper riffle as good as pure snipers and there is not any other PvP ready gun they can use (because all SG bursting weapons are very weak in comparsion to the BG bursting weapons). So they level up and than realize that their effort was useless.

 If some newbies realy want to join us we are saying: nice try, but better will be if you will erase this char and create: 1) fighter (we have already created every possible PvP builds ready to fight and win in PvP, junkies or not, we will be very surprised is someone will create new type of char which will dominate in the PvP (i think other major PvP gangs also have this knowledge)). 2) crafter or 2 (gun and armor) 3) maybe miner...

 But newbies who are not joining us or other PvP team does not have this experience but they have to challenge PK players.

 So my suggestion is very wide.

 Do something with this, maybe raise the ability of some small guns, maybe set LSW common for SG and BG class, or do something else, that will prevent disapointing of impossibility of choice of PvP ready gun if you are SG and you have not pure snipe build.

[Drakonis]

bg noobs are supposed to lvl up with cheapass flamer, man

[Roachor]

You can make a pretty decent unarmed/thrower with a crit build, gives you the unarmed pvp grinding and the insane grenade damage later. Hell you can even eye shot people for fun with throwing knives. I'd suggest taking one hander for the 20% to aim for throwing, seriously cuts down on how many points you need to hit max range.

[Lordus]

You can make a pretty decent unarmed/thrower with a crit build, gives you the unarmed pvp grinding and the insane grenade damage later. Hell you can even eye shot people for fun with throwing knives. I'd suggest taking one hander for the 20% to aim for throwing, seriously cuts down on how many points you need to hit max range.

 Problem is that newbies are forced to making alts, because there is not any alternative to small gun critical weapon. Their builds are not constucted for it. I remember, when devs little nerf 5mm ammo, but they forgot that this kind of ammo is used in Assault rifle too. But they dont care of this.

 GIVE SG one burst weapon that can be effectively used in PvP in some way. Thank you (p90 cant because 25 hex long range in comparsion to lsw and only 2 bursts are ridiculous).

[Frosti]

^ or maybe small guns shold stay as a 'sniper' weapon? and burst ability of some small guns is nice add.

[Ulrek]

NOBODY from SG newbies created their char with 10 pe and at least 6 luck.[/

i thought it was 10 luck and 8 PE for snipers?

-Ulrek-

[vedaras]

lol sorry but you suck once again, lsw for both classes wtf? and anyway miniguns are better in bursting then small gun weapons. And yes in single player game, you could own bots pretty much with all weapons or without them, but its not single player game, and all weapons dont need to be equal. And as it was said before, big gunners dont exp with lsws neither so they dont defend from pk with them as well ^^

[Roachor]

Problem is that newbies are forced to making alts, because there is not any alternative to small gun critical weapon. Their builds are not constucted for it. I remember, when devs little nerf 5mm ammo, but they forgot that this kind of ammo is used in Assault rifle too. But they dont care of this.

 GIVE SG one burst weapon that can be effectively used in PvP in some way. Thank you (p90 cant because 25 hex long range in comparsion to lsw and only 2 bursts are ridiculous).

my build has 4 bursts and a reload.

[Lordus]

lol sorry but you suck once again, lsw for both classes wtf? and anyway miniguns are better in bursting then small gun weapons. And yes in single player game, you could own bots pretty much with all weapons or without them, but its not single player game, and all weapons dont need to be equal. And as it was said before, big gunners dont exp with lsws neither so they dont defend from pk with them as well ^^

 Well somebody who never fought in PvP battles arrived again. I have at least experience, so i can make suggestions. I created many Builds, maybe the best SG sniper build ever (often copy or modified for players personal purpose in VSB and friendly gangs) so i have VERY VERY good overview about PvP, at least thousands of time bigger than you, because your vulture PvP style sucks. At least your genius doctor/fa nerf was fortunately canceled

 I will try to repeat for less educated people major facts again.

 I wrote, that nobody from newbies SG created their char with 10 PE or 10 LC to rule the sniper riffle. Most of their PE was cca 6-7, lc was maximaly 6, average was less. We had cca 30+ aplications to VSB since 3rd era. (because we have new forum, i dont have info about 1st and second era). So this is very good statistic sample.

 If they dont alting, they finished their chars without any possibility how to challenge other people, because SG burst does less damage practicaly on the same lenght like big guns. So one of possibilites, is to create SG long bareled weapons burst damage bigger on the longer distance (30-40 hex), bigger than BG burst on this distances, but of course smaller than BG burst on 1-30 hex. It is not too much, but it can help SG players. LSW is only one possibility from many, so Vedaras, dont know if you are already at university, if you cant read text.

[vedaras]

i will repeat once again. Small guns has never been and will never been as good as big guns in bursting do you lack your brains to not understand that? All your suggestions and everything is to increase sg to an unbelievable amounts, teach those newbies how to play instead of making newbie suggestions.

[Lordus]

i will repeat once again. Small guns has never been and will never been as good as big guns in bursting do you lack your brains to not understand that? All your suggestions and everything is to increase sg to an unbelievable amounts, teach those newbies how to play instead of making newbie suggestions.

 1) But this conception is nonsense. I accept this in games, where you start with small guns, like pistols, than you find another kind of weapons, better and bigger (shotguns, double barreled shotguns, minigun, than rocket launcher, plasma rifle and at the end Big Fucking Gun). But this Weapon conception is from year 1993 - Doom and Doom II. So if there will exist only one (or 2) weapons skill (fireamrs and energetic weapons), i can accept it, because i will have chance to take bigger gun, when i reach high level.

 New games modifies this, because they re giving purpose for guns. Gun with better damage cant burst (Counter strike Magnum sniper rifle), fast bursting have not enough distance, ....
 There is created very good, in my point of view, best model of balancing.. Team Fortress 2. The guns and playstyles are not separated only because it has, but because they are giving great opportunity of many tactic situations.

 I dont want to create SUPER, TURBO HYPER SMALL GUN, i want to add more variety to existing PvP builds by little raising one of SG bursting guns ability.

I have direct question to developers: Are you considering that you will add playstyle role to weapons like Assault rifle, FN FAL or XL70E3?? Because now, if you dont choose sniper build, there is dead end in the SG player character progress. I never played WoW or something like this, but i dont think that there can exist something like this.

 My suggestion is to create/modify As.rifle of gun, where you will have to chose  single aimed or burst shot, both will be generally worst than BG burst or SNIPER critic shot, but this possibility of changing playstyle will be great benefit in the game.

2) If you will finish your school lesson of reading, you will find in text above, that we always tell to our new members to erase their existing char and create "family of chars" if they want to exist in Fonline world, because it is essential.

3) Vedaras, if you want to tell that post of anybody sucks, you dont have to do it. Everybody knows, that only your ideas are great and ideas of others sucks. You can save your bitrate from Moldavia or the country where you are for more needed people.

[vedaras]

if you dont like conception of this game so then just stop playing. And it absolutely makes sense that miniguns designed to torn toughest armors and vehicles do more bursting damage then light infantry weapons. Well and if your guys made builds that suck then they will suck whats the problem? I cant take 10 IN 10 CH and then say that i cant do anything with my build on lvl 21 in pvp and make suggestions because of that. And as you see from votes already in, most players play small guns, dont try to make the most powerful fighting skill even more powered because your faction receives many retarded noobs applications. And as i see you keep tossing insults at me so i will try to make it clear. I dont give a shit who you are etc. and i just only tell my opinion and i have a right to do that. And if your suggestions receives only "you suck" opinions, then maybe your suggestions arent as good as you think for yourself.

[RavenousRat]

You mean make SG-burster > BG-burster on long distance? So it'll be long range bursters. And of couse it's easy to explain, try to burst in Countersrtike with minigun and with commando (or whatever is it, I'm not CS-player), of couse scoped assault rifle more accurate, and you can do kinda aimed burst shots.
So if you give assault rifles less or even no bullet spread with range, it'll be what you want. At least to XL70E3, because it's scoped and has "Accurate" perk. But don't forget about FN-FAL, yes, it doesn't have scope, but.. who cares? Let assault rifle be like now, but make it powerful at pointblank, so it'll be kinda light BG, make it weakers than minigun, but stronger than 10mm SMG, because now assault rifle totally useless, and I can't understand why 10mm SMG is better than AK at point blank.
So, as I know FN-FAL don't have any weapon perk, add "Accurate" to it.
Then every SG that has "Accurate" weapon perk (or may be create special perk for this) will have no bullet spread with range, so Pancor Jackhammers, FN-FALs, XL70E3s, Combat Shotguns, CAWS, etc. will be better and more useful.
Any minigun/LSW must be > SG-bursting-rifles at close range, but any SG-bursting-rifles must be = or > BG at long range.

[Lordus]

if you dont like conception of this game so then just stop playing. And it absolutely makes sense that miniguns designed to torn toughest armors and vehicles do more bursting damage then light infantry weapons. Well and if your guys made builds that suck then they will suck whats the problem? I cant take 10 IN 10 CH and then say that i cant do anything with my build on lvl 21 in pvp and make suggestions because of that. And as you see from votes already in, most players play small guns, dont try to make the most powerful fighting skill even more powered because your faction receives many retarded noobs applications. And as i see you keep tossing insults at me so i will try to make it clear. I dont give a shit who you are etc. and i just only tell my opinion and i have a right to do that. And if your suggestions receives only "you suck" opinions, then maybe your suggestions arent as good as you think for yourself.

1) This is OPEN beta test. You are the master of number of suggestions, if i will use same logic as you used, you are unsatisfied with the game, so you post suggestions, so my recomendation is same like yours, leave this game. This is absurd, is not it?

 2) Do you know what is dogma? In medieval age, the catholic church did not wanted people washing, so people did not washed their bodies for centuries.
 
 3) Developers dont want alting. = Fact,
    They created many measures agains alting = Fact
    They set proffestions, that you dont need alt to create your basic stuff = Fact
    They did not balanced most powerfull weapons (except sniper riffle) of SG class, so major way of SG build tree progress is useless in PvP = Fact
    Player vs. player interaction is major magnet of Fonline project = Fact
    Most entertaining part of the PvP interaction, is PvP combat = (i hope) Fact
    If players want to enjoy the most entertaining part of Fonline, they have to alting and powerbuilding = Fact
    The previous fact denies the first one = Fact

4) How many aplication recieved your faction, Vedaras?

5) It is natural, that newbies will have wrong set up SPECIAL and SKILLS, but all aplicants were players of Fallout 1 or 2, big majority of Fallout Tactics, and majority at least tested Fallout 3. (this question is also part of our aplication form). Most of them finished Fallout 1/2 by multiple times (10x,30x .. not unusual numbers). So they are not retards, they are not idiots, THEY ONLY EXPECT, THAT IF THEY CHOOSE THEIR FAVOURITE PLAY STYLE THEY WILL BE ABLE TO CHALLENGE ENEMY PLAYERS, because they expected this is multiplayer one game. But the progress tree of SG players is cutted under the level of criticals weapons (Sniper r. and Laser rifle) and BG bursting weapons.

6) I recieved you suck only from you, and i have to remind you, that you are the one who starts the debate with vulgar worlds and insulting. So maybe, if you will avoid this behaviour, others will start to like you.

P.S.: Black marked text is only for Vedaras, the King.

[Lil Jesus]

rocket launcher has its use, minigun, lsw, even flamer is useful.

but in SG only sniper is good to be against big gunners (cause of it's long distance, duh).

i believe its realistic, think about it, minigun bursts 40 bullets? assault rifle how much? much less for sure, so damage difference should be big. the only thing in BG i very much hate, is that they're very accurate in big distances, only gun that should be accurate in longest distances is LSW, minigun cause of big burst shouldnt be good (ex. about 10 bullets hit only in huge distance, if near, then 60-80% chance that all 40 bullets hit on target), rocket launcher, about 70% hit chance from longest distance, cause it has no navigation systems, does it?

P.S. my first sentences were about Damage, the other part is about Accuracy