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I am pacifist

[Roachor]

I think fonline should take a page from other mmos and have a tree for each weapon class and would add bonuses you could get to make all the weapon classes viable endgame. Like split bg into miniguns/rockets/flamers and have specific perks for each kind and do the same for sg rifles/pistols/smgs and energy laser/plasma. Things that fill out the weakpoints of different weapons like adding range/girth to flamer shots or allow pistols to duel wield giving 2 bullets at 2 different targets for each shot. This way weapon choice will be decided by personal preference and play style vs basic math style we have now, people will always go with the obviously higher damage and range.

[Surf]

I agree with that Small Guns are a bit "worthless" in endgame pvp, mostly just sniper rifle builds....
But as everytime, balance is the key. Making one class better then any other is not good.. It's really not that easy and I have no better suggestion in making things better, though.



And to vedaras and Lordus, please stop your small scale "war", or settle it down via PM.

[vedaras]

I agree with that Small Guns are a bit "worthless" in endgame pvp, mostly just sniper rifle builds....
But as everytime, balance is the key. Making one class better then any other is not good.. It's really not that easy and I have no better suggestion in making things better, though.



And to vedaras and Lordus, please stop your small scale "war", or settle it down via PM.

why then most people play sg? Because its cheapest way to reach greatest effectiveness, and its like that already and you are talking about improving sg? Get serious people...

[Ulrek]

i think most people who voted and said they played small gunners, snipers or bursters etc.

did so due to the simple fact, that unless you want to fight people all the time, being a big gunner is costly, and some what boring unless you like gathering stuff to make your bullets yourself, unless you're in a gang, at which point you can feel free to powerbuild at the cost of crafting skills.

i personally play a.

5 STR
8 PER
4 END
4 CHA
6 INT
7 AGL
6 LUCK

crafter/sniperish type character, and he works pretty well.

And to vedaras and Lordus, please stop your small scale "war", or settle it down via PM.

" +1!! "

-Ulrek-

[Drakonis]

i think most people who voted and said they played small gunners, snipers or bursters etc.

did so due to the simple fact, that unless you want to fight people all the time, being a big gunner is costly, and some what boring unless you like gathering stuff to make your bullets yourself, unless you're in a gang, at which point you can feel free to powerbuild at the cost of crafting skills.

i personally play a.

5 STR
8 PER
4 END
4 CHA
6 INT
7 AGL
6 LUCK

crafter/sniperish type character, and he works pretty well.

" +1!! "

-Ulrek-

7 agility? 4 charisma? just 4 endurance?

[Midnight]

Personnaly i prefer smallguns beacause you have the choice to burst or single, and this let you play against bots or players, but in fact it's not that true cause burst with SMG are pretty crap actually except for 10mm SMG and maybe a P90c but not really sure.

Assault riffle are craps cause they are not really efficient and they require 5AP in single 6 in Burst, same for FNFal except the HFPA version who is a bit better but are ridiculously restrictive (FN Fal normal too is restrictive).

Finally Pancore and Caws have too little range, 14 and 16 ... Forget it against BG and forget it against snipers, for a result that may vary (greatly) if you are able to shoot with. 16 for Caws and 20 for Pancore would be allready more reasonnable, but i don't know if a burst of pancore at 20 distance would be dangerous anyway.

[vedaras]

Personnaly i prefer smallguns beacause you have the choice to burst or single, and this let you play against bots or players, but in fact it's not that true cause burst with SMG are pretty crap actually except for 10mm SMG and maybe a P90c but not really sure.

Assault riffle are craps cause they are not really efficient and they require 5AP in single 6 in Burst, same for FNFal except the HFPA version who is a bit better but are ridiculously restrictive (FN Fal normal too is restrictive).

Finally Pancore and Caws have too little range, 14 and 16 ... Forget it against BG and forget it against snipers, for a result that may vary (greatly) if you are able to shoot with. 16 for Caws and 20 for Pancore would be allready more reasonnable, but i don't know if a burst of pancore at 20 distance would be dangerous anyway.

you forgot one thing. Demo expert (using plasma nades) fires 300 caps with each hit. Big gunner with rocket launcher fires like 350-500 with each hit. Big gunner with minigun is a thing only rich people can afford ( im not talking about only using it in pvp, about lvling up etc). Energy expert fires bullets that are hard to craft, and about double as valuable as sg bullets (and in same times their ammo are resisted by armors very will, while sg bullets are not). And so SG fires like 9-16 caps with each shot, and something like 50-100 caps with each burst. So common, dont be so selfish and dont expect others to overpower sg more then it is now.

[Midnight]

"SG fires like 9-16 caps" yeah sure look FN Fal and tell me 7.62 are easy and cheap ammos.

Actually P90c is a good (in stats) SMG (maybe the best) and it's not that good compared to the other weapons, it's main force is the cost really low of it's ammos. Now it's not the case for 75% of SG sorry.
And you say efficiency/cost is not imbalanced for assault riffle is good compared to BG, and compared to snipers? with 1 single .223 they do same domm than burst of LWS (and insta kill and cripples and all you want) so maybe speaking of lack of use of 95% of SMG is not a selfish issue but a real one.

And to have FN Fal HFPA who fire 10 rounds/burst where supposed to fire 20, you have to be raider which is i think really high cost. And you have to be raider once to learn the job for every tiers 3 SG (P90c or Pancore) and that's not simplier than lv with BG, it's even harder in fact.
So i don't think it's selfish, personally i don't care even if FN Fal become a power weapon i'll stick to P90c which is already a good weapon, so no point, only make the game not only playable as only one way like so many are expecting.

I don't know how hard it is to get microfusion, surely it's hard, cause only the strongest weapons need it, butwe are not talking about that right know, here what you want is "you play SG, you have to make a sniper build with finest and that's all" how fun ... I even wonder why letting people manage their build at this point, make some archetypes and it's ok everyone play with same weapon and same stats, no more troubles, no surprise and basically no gameplay :/

[vedaras]

"SG fires like 9-16 caps" yeah sure look FN Fal and tell me 7.62 are easy and cheap ammos.

who uses fn fal anyway? And by the way having ammo for m60 is much more harder so still crying for sg is not an option in here :>

[Midnight]

who uses fn fal anyway? And by the way having ammo for m60 is much more harder so still crying for sg is not an option in here :>

Yeah and it's exaclty the topic SMGs are useless, thanks to approve Verdaras. I wonder what happn if they change plasma grenades, make them cost 1cap and do 20 domm only, the domm/cost ratio would be great, but i'm pretty sure you'll be here to say this suck and is useless.
So what's the point to make useless features, again?

[vedaras]

Yeah and it's exaclty the topic SMGs are useless, thanks to approve Verdaras. I wonder what happn if they change plasma grenades, make them cost 1cap and do 20 domm only, the domm/cost ratio would be great, but i'm pretty sure you'll be here to say this suck and is useless.
So what's the point to make useless features, again?

well if frags would cost 1 ap, they would be the most powerful weapon in whole game ^^

[Midnight]

That's just what i was poiting.

You have assault rifle, bad weapons, worst than 10mm smg for much more cost, maybe there should be a fix here.
Second if you check FN Fal ok it a little better than Assault rifle, but for a silly cost and greatly inferior to P90c (more AP to shoot, same dom in single but less in burst)
And you have finally the FN Fal HFPA supposed to be the best SG possible to craft in the game, and it's a little better than P90 in single and a bit weaker in burst, for a cost really high.

I know nobody use FN Fal HFPA but this weapon should be a Light LSW or something like this regarding all required to use, and it's not the case so it's useless.
Seriously Small Gun interresting can be listed fast.
BB gun for militia kill
Deagle and 10mm SMG cause they are cheap and average weapons
Needler was interresting cause of low ammo cost and fair doms (no more the case)
P90c cause it cost few AP and ammos are cheap
All .223 guns for sniping

All shootguns are useless, all burst rifles (tommy gun, XL70E3, Assault rifle, FN Fal, FN Fal HFPA), grease gun, magnum, 14mm, mauser. And i don't take pipe rifle and so in count.
Must admit it's a few useless guns

[Lordus]

you forgot one thing. Demo expert (using plasma nades) fires 300 caps with each hit. Big gunner with rocket launcher fires like 350-500 with each hit. Big gunner with minigun is a thing only rich people can afford ( im not talking about only using it in pvp, about lvling up etc). Energy expert fires bullets that are hard to craft, and about double as valuable as sg bullets (and in same times their ammo are resisted by armors very will, while sg bullets are not). And so SG fires like 9-16 caps with each shot, and something like 50-100 caps with each burst. So common, dont be so selfish and dont expect others to overpower sg more then it is now.

 I dont want to be offensive, but it looks that you dont get the point. Your equation is right, but because you were not continuously PvP, you have forget to put it into bigger equation.

 You put a question: How expensive is to fire one shot or burst in each combat class?


 BG (avenger) burst cost = 40 * 15 = 600  caps
 SG (As.rifle) burst cost = 8 * 15 = 120 caps

 Better question is: How expensive is to fire one shot or burst in each combat class, if you want to make same damage?

 BG vs SG (as. rifle) full ap bursts costs

 BG needs 3*40 ammo * price = 120 * 15 = 1500 caps,
 SG needs = 3 x 8 * price = 360 caps.


 BUT:

 One Avenger burst =cca 105 DMG (agaisnt classic power build with metal MK2)
 One AS.R. burst = cca 29 DMG (-II-).

 So if SG burster wants to do same damage like Avenger guy, he needs to fire 3,5 x more than avenger.

  So price for 105 damage is 600 caps / BG avenger
 and 420/SG as.r.. So prices are very similar. So your argument is wrong. (EDITED, i mate math mistake)

 BUT: You dont have only ammo for one burst, you have more ammo, that you can lost. You have also gun, armor, drugs. You invest your real time to find and craft it.

 So the right question is: How much effort have i to make, if i want to be succesful in PvP (or PvE)?

 Every PvP player needs equipment. Armor, weapon, ammo, stimps and drugs. Everybody knows, that if you want to play BG avenger in PvP, your costs are greater than SG AS burst. But each class needs armor, so this price is same for everyone. Other equipment is more expensive for BG. Ok, how much? 3x? 4x? 5x? Lets say 5x /price not only in caps, but in time you need to spend = real costs.

So if BG stuff is 5x expensive in PvP than SGs A.R. stuff ( 5:1), do bigguners have 5x bigger chance to win the combat against SG AS.Rifles? NO, they dont.  Chance of SG assault riffle win against biggunner is equal to ZERO. (1:50). Just look at their bursts damage and their weapons range. Only very experienced SG burster can kill average BG burster. But if their players skills are equal, BG has bigger chances.

 

[vedaras]

That's just what i was poiting.

You have assault rifle, bad weapons, worst than 10mm smg for much more cost, maybe there should be a fix here.
Second if you check FN Fal ok it a little better than Assault rifle, but for a silly cost and greatly inferior to P90c (more AP to shoot, same dom in single but less in burst)
And you have finally the FN Fal HFPA supposed to be the best SG possible to craft in the game, and it's a little better than P90 in single and a bit weaker in burst, for a cost really high.

I know nobody use FN Fal HFPA but this weapon should be a Light LSW or something like this regarding all required to use, and it's not the case so it's useless.
Seriously Small Gun interresting can be listed fast.
BB gun for militia kill
Deagle and 10mm SMG cause they are cheap and average weapons
Needler was interresting cause of low ammo cost and fair doms (no more the case)
P90c cause it cost few AP and ammos are cheap
All .223 guns for sniping

All shootguns are useless, all burst rifles (tommy gun, XL70E3, Assault rifle, FN Fal, FN Fal HFPA), grease gun, magnum, 14mm, mauser. And i don't take pipe rifle and so in count.
Must admit it's a few useless guns

you forget one thing, and the main thing is that you cant make all small guns good in fights. Flamer is shitty weapon in real time versus player fight too, but i dont see anyone whining to make it range 50 or anything. Avenger cost a little over 10k caps, p90 cost 6300, 10mm smg is worthless at all, pretty much same as assault rifles and fn fals compared to expensive big guns. So i still dont get it, why you want cheap shitty guns to be as effective as expensive themselves big guns and which are also much more expensive in using (by ammo consuming)?

[Tyler]

It would be alot of fun for the classes to all be somewhat equal in the end stages and i dont really see a problem with it.Cost is only an issue if prices were set in stone and its not.Nothing is set in stone during a beta so raising sm gun prices to match the effectiveness in combat seems like a fair trade to me.If it brings more diversity to game then im all for it.

Maybe you should try to be a little more open minded vederas because afterall you seem to find alot of little things you want implemented.I see your suggestions all over this forum but almost never see anything positive come from you on anyone elses.