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[Frozen Mind]

Just do a proffesion of slaver. 3 levels. Depends on Speech and Outdoor. It makes you can enslave more NPC kinds (like hostile thugs), but not the strongest ones. It would make people have more fun.

[naskiel32]

Just do a proffesion of slaver. 3 levels. Depends on Speech and Outdoor. It makes you can enslave more NPC kinds (like hostile thugs), but not the strongest ones. It would make people have more fun.

As i read here u guys got good ideas so yea why dont make slaver as profession like gunsmith or something? u know like:
lvl 1 pets like dogs
lvl 2 some humans, ghouls
lvl 3 ability to enslave deathclaws and dunno big green uglies or something?
that would open new posibilities in places like NRC or Den thing on the same rules like normal followers standard buy / sell using slaver guild

yee i can see in my imagination gangs of players slavers with cattle prods chaising some innocent creatures on wasteland
btw who dont want deathclaw as guardian in his base?  

[Wallace]

Most of you are very stubborn with applying speech skill into slavery even though it isn't very logical at all...

So maybe instead of speech only, other skills would be nessecery such as outdoor(finding potential slaves) lockpick/traps(preventing them from running away from their captivity) first aid/doc (keeping them in good health)

Additionally high strenght would be required (ever seen a weak slaver?) to intimidate slaves

[Roachor]

Lockpicking could make handcuffs at high levels for capturing npc's

[Frozen Mind]

I think it's not a problem to tide unconscious man with a rope (outdoorsman skill). But you can't hold this rope all the time you lead him. He has to COOPERATE. All slavery art is about persuade a slave to listen to a slaver. Explain him, why he shouldn't do that. He has no reason to run away, because he will be enslaved again or killed (CHARISMATIC person have more chance then). It's a TALK - speech skill. But you need to look like a person who would seriously punish for thing done wrong - strength.

Without Slaver Profession you can obviously tam a Brahmin.

1st level of Slaver Profession:
Requirements: CH4; ST5; SP 50; OUT: 60
Enslaveable:
- Slaves
- Nomads / Wild men / Fishermen
- Farmers / Homesteaders / Bootleggers
- Holy people
- Scavengers / Ghoul scavengers

2nd level of Slaver Profession:
Requirements: CH6; ST6; SP 80; OUT: 90
Enslaveable:
- Prospectors / V15 Squatters / Trappers
- Raiders / Bandits
- Dogs / Wild cows

3rd (&last) level of Slaver Profession:
Requirements: CH8; ST7; SP 110; OUT: 135
Enslaveable:
- Thugs (Rogues / Gang) / Mobsters / Yakooza
- Merchants / Traders / Caravan (that poor caravan from north)
- Cannibals
- Ghoul crazies
- Wild dogs / Wolves
- Geckos / silver geckos
- and a Thought guard I've met alive in a cave once. Super rare.

Hope I haven't forgot any critter I wanted here. Can be edited if that's not true .
And I think it's not overpowered.

[plenty]

In my opinion - enslaving doesn't require any charisma nor speech at all. You will never convince a slave. You terrorize them into obedience.
Outdoorsman, yes, traps, locks, maybe. Charisma - the lower, the better.

Do I need to remind you that slavers usually captured people from nations whose language they didn't knew? Africans, native americans and so on. The universal argument was a whip, not pretty talking somebody into custody.
In the terms of speech: "do what I tell you or f***ing die!."  Does that sounds like speech to you?

Use some logic.

[Frozen Mind]

It's not about the logic. It's about the professions system. You need to pick requirements like in other profession to balance the game. Traps don't convince me at all. And this skill in much cases rises above the PvP. The thing is there is no terrorize skill too. Here goes out unused skill - speech. That's why. Charisma - you need it to lead players and NPCs through the wasteland. So it's naturally attached to the profession.

We don't want to have thousands of slavers and flood of slaves.

[plenty]

Its better to introduce quests with speech requirement, if you are worried about unused skill.

Charisma - you need it to lead players and NPCs through the wasteland.

You DON'T lead them, you HERD them.

The way you wand it to be, lets get a profession for gathering of each type of resources, and lets add a speech requirement - some tribes used to talk to plants before cutting them.
You said yourself, that logic doesn't concern you...

[Frozen Mind]

The crafting system wouldn't be BALANCED then . I consider logic, but balance is really what the on-line game needs.

Okay. Let's make it that way. You need ST8 and big guns 120 outdoor 150 to reach the level 3 of slaver profession. Terrorized and bad treated slaves would make an uprise in your tent by night. Because they don't see sense of living with a big guy with his big gun who even can't talk and look almost like ghoul.

FLAMES!!!

[Wallace]

Frozen Mind

Right now you seem just to write some random stuff only not to tell that Plenty is right

He is imo

[plenty]

Is there a point talking to you? Tied, chained, roped? Uprise?

Balance has nothing to do with it. If you where such a balance defender, you would ask for correction on other aspects of the game - like realtime combat mode that ignores agility for example. IMO you have made a char with 120 speech and now you're trying to get some use for it.

Quests and convincing people should be bonded, not slavery. That would bring some balance. Convince somebody to teach you a profession, or bribe him high, for example.

I won't answer to your posts anymore - no point. If you don't care about logic, what is the bloody point of discussion with you than?

[Frozen Mind]

No. I don't have character with any skill point added to the speech. I just want to warn all of you about a POWER BUILDS who can be more powered with additional bots controlled in a war? Or make more usage of traps skill to make more bombers builds using a child with bomb? Just screw Frozen the slaver. Think what this changes would bring in the wasteland!

Now there are only two disadvantages:
- charisma needed - it blocks typical power builds from building a army of bots used in PvP (PK highlighted). So that players need to make "alts" what makes they don't fight with slaves power. Otherwise they just can buy a mercenary;
- reputation loose - some factions want to take you down, but it's not much difficult.

In my model it would add a new requirement. But the speech could be really lowed than I wrote it in a first time to make easier to pick a slaver profession without planing.

And like previously... First game balance, then real logic. Don't turn it into flame.

[Wallace]

"First game balance, then real logic."

Then its better to make something totally stupid, unreal and illogical just for sake of balancing the game? Or what?

[plenty]

You have edited the post. Previously you have been suggesting that speech is naturally attached to convincing slaves into submission, rather than terrorizing them. Totally absurd.

Yes, speech requirement to get a professions is a good idea, also a good way of balancing,  but totally different than one suggested by you before.
Having such requirements (high speech to convince slavers leader to honor you with guilds membership), you couldn't create a power build AND be a slaver with army of drones (don't use word "bot" for slaves, thats something quite different).

I'm not starting any flame war, just opposing absurds.

The idea you derived from my suggestion (few posts above)  would indeed balance the game, and wouldn't be as awkward as your original. So now I can say I agree - to some point.

Add the requirement for shackles, cages, collars, cuffs etc (you would need  lock-picking, some science or simply cash to buy them), outdoorsman skill requirement to herd them safely trough wasteland (failed test - you lost a slave, either he managed to run away, or died)... Than calculate all to make sure, that creation of a playable slave is possible, yet it couldn't be a power build at the same time.

Logic + balance.

Hope you agree.

[Frozen Mind]

Fail test - sounds good.

I think lockpick skill shouldn't be needed to gain a profession only, but to craft slavers item. I think the only item would be handcuff. And it's needed to enslave "harder" NPC such as Rogues. Somehow I don't like the collar idea .

And in that test would calculate with parameters like:
1. Do you have handcuffs?
2. What is your speech skill?
3? Outdoor.?

The test has something random or it's constant (for each type of NPC)?

Edit: I'm still waiting for devs response about system improvements we're discussing here.