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[Roachor]

If I can only have 4 slaves, this means every time I lost them in pvp I have to go out and get more since i can't stockpile them. This is incredibly annoying and pointlessly time consuming, I made this build for a reason and then you went and handicapped slavers. It's bad enough going through half the map is a death sentence due to bos/mutants.

I'm suggesting that you can have 2x your merc limit worth of slaves waiting, this way people can't use bugs to get 16 mercs following them and it doesn't handicap slavers to the point of being useless.

[GroeneAppel]

Pssst you forgot about rangers

[Izual]

I renamed your thread, I was about to junk it because I thought it was only some kind of "undo the last wipe's change about mercs limit", but then I saw it was not this. Actually this idea can work well.

[DrapiChrust]

I've already said somewhere here that total limit=travel limit is too restricting. So +1

[bipboy]

+1

slavers have been nerf already too much (with slave price,reputation etc.) make global limitation 2x or 3x for slavers should be a more balanced solution for the advantage being a slaver. You dont need to worry much about the slaves because you can not catch good ones.

[Lordus]

 I think that current merc limit system is ok, but there could be special player slavers base with prison, where you can have your additional slaves. It is logical, that if you have more slaves, you need prison because of risk of revolt.

[Frozen Mind]

Exactly. We need other system for slave slots. It's completely different to just go do the city and buy than find, bring below 1, enslave, bring back, and have a slave weaker than normal mercenary (sniper for example for 4k). Slaves also have problems with weapon usage and have very low skills like players on level 3-5. Just try to compare them with mercenaries on Wiki to see differences.

Otherwise there was something like Cesar's Legion in Fallout 3 (Van Buren) and 3 slavers factions in the wastes. I think slavers could be able to build a small army up to 15 slaves, but they can lead them only with standard formula.

And there's a difference in for what you became slaver and a mercenary owners. The second case is only about guards of bases and patrols, or traps and assaults. But slaves are mostly to trade so you need a security in base and a slaves to trade. That makes a problem with present system, because you just can't have both states in base/tent.

[Solar]

From the murky depths of the post about the private mining concept comes:

OK, so lets put some numbers to this:

First, proposed change to the follower limit

For Merc/Dogs, If we add an extra -1 so its basically Ch/2 -2 rounding up, but then add bonus slots due to speech skill => Speech skill/60 = #extra slots we end up with

Cha 1,2 = None (We can also ban their bonus slots from Speech)
Cha 3,4 = None, but allowed Speech bonus
Cha 5,6 = 1 + Bonus ... etc

This does take us up to max 3 slots from Charisma and a possible 5 extra slots from speech (and one for mag personality) for a total of 9 mercs/dogs ... but that would be for 9/10 Ch 300% speech skill guy with Mag personality.

Brahmin/Slaves

These could then not take up any follower slots, but the amount you are allowed to "own" globally would depend on the number of mercs/dogs you have.

If #Slaves = 1 + (# Mercs*2) then even a reasonably normal character can have several slaves to work for them.  Ch 5 120% speech would be allowed 3 mercs ... so then 7 slaves

Then # Brahmin = 1 + # Dogs. So Ch 5 120% speech guy can have 3 Dogs and these allow him to have a total of 4 brahmin.

I've not given up on something like this coming in eventually

[Badger]

I've not given up on something like this coming in eventually

I love it.

[Frozen Mind]

Isn't it too restrictive if normal (without 60 speech) guy with 4 charisma can't even have single mercenary? What about a little protection of tents for lone players having problem with natural perception or taggers exploiting? With this system merc is something extraordinary for special builds. Why not to make slots system. Has been posted before.

Slot points (how many you can own in one time globally):
Charisma relation: CH-1
Becoming a Slaver: +2
Magnetic personality perk bonus: +2
Speech bonus: (Speech-30/30) (-30 because of starting stats, hope it's not possible to have 0 speech)
If CH>2 charismacheck=1, else charismacheck=0

General formula: (CH-1 + slaver*2 + magnetic*2 + speech-30/30)*charismacheck

Slave 1 slot
Dog 1 slot
Brahmin 1 slot
Mercenary 2 slots
Super mutant 3 slots

Following NPC formula: (CH-1)/2 (present) - how many you can have traveling with you.

Preview - global NPC owning:
10CH, magnetic personality, 300 speech, slaver -> 22 slots - unbelievable slaver build
10CH, magnetic personality, 180 speech, slaver -> 15 slots - power slaver build
6CH, magnetic personality, 120 speech, slaver -> 12 slots - typical new slaver build
7CH, magnetic personality, no speech points added/tagged, slaver -> 10 slots -> typical old slaver build
5CH, magnetic personality, no speech points added/tagged, slaver -> 8 slots
5CH, no perk, no speech points added/tagged, slaver -> 6 slots
3CH, no perk, no spech, slaver -> 4 slots -> minimum slaver build
3CH, no perk, no spech, non-slaver -> 2 slots -> 'high' charisma combat power build


Generally I would prefer Slavery as a profession unrelated with mecenaries where each level would make you can enslave better types of NPC - still without overpower.

[Solar]

I prefer slaves being linked to mercenaries. If its Ch/2-2 or Ch/2-1 or Speech over 60, 50 or whatever I didn't really think of the details as it was just an initial concept.

I also prefer it having to be something that requires levelling and investment, so that you can't create many alts and set up private mines for them in 5 minutes.

10CH, magnetic personality, 300 speech -> 9 mercs + 19 Slaves - would be quite a sight

[Frozen Mind]

But you can't tag 4 skills: Weapon handling, outdoor, first aid, speech.

As a man who played more than 6 months with a slaver character (having a fun without restrictions) I have to say, that you would need now to have all listed above skills to be a good slaver, because:

1. No weapon skills -> how would you manage to bring guy to 0 hp or below? -> You can't have big guns, because you'll only kill every potential slave. Also slave-able NPCs have low energy resistance so it's another barrier.

2. No outdoor -> you'll be killed on center of the map, where are most of faction bases and tents. Besides you have to seek and take a long trip to find specific type of it -> Any level of path finder makes harder the seeking of wanted kind of NPC. You have to click more, you have less encounters in same time. So you won't be a good people transporter (having high charisma) because of low speed.

3. No first aid -> You have to heal yourself after fight you were trying to not kill slaves. You need to heal yourself and slaves. Otherwise good luck in waiting to hp restore above 0 or more (to be safely transported to base/tent).

4. No speech -> you'll be able to have ... maximum 4 slaves (with magnetic perk). So what you gonna do with it, Sherlock? 4 slaves (not mercs) can be killed in seconds with a high level combat character, especially with drugs taken. So it won't protect my tent or myself while travel well. And where ale slaves to trade? I can't see any.

And: Bringing to 0 or below is a damn hard think, harder than just killing them with a burst or critical eye hit killing your merchandise. Having luck higher than 5 is also next damn obstacle, because your gun won't be predictable (with damage taking with it). So you won't be a good warrior too.

Being a good slaver will be equal to having a crippled character. Even if you won't need speech on high level.

Before the wipe my team raided base protected by about 40-50 slaves on the entrance and 4 mercs. We had 10 fully armed men, only few of them were on 21st level. We lost 2-3 guys out there. So this protection is a shit anyway. I really like being slaver but today I still have no any character for that because of this limits.

[Roachor]

Agreed you need FA or a ton of stims, outdoor is essential to finding slaves and avoiding losing them to encounters and one weapon skill, there's not enough room for speech.

[gordulan]

maybe add a fourth tag skill when you reach the slaver proffesion on speech?

[Solar]

Weapon handling, outdoor, first aid, speech.

Hrm, I wouldn't say you need all of the first 3 tagged or you're screwed. Decisions and consequences, good things.