Author Topic: 3d models development  (Read 672945 times)

Offline Gob

  • The Good
Re: 3d models development
« Reply #2325 on: May 10, 2012, 04:00:30 pm »
I don't want to be  a dick but are those VD textures made in MS Paint ?

Offline NastyKhan

  • One man army: Graphic, music and game designer.
Re: 3d models development
« Reply #2326 on: May 10, 2012, 04:49:04 pm »
Sorry for a little off topic, but i found some glitches in the newest mutant model's face. Some vertex required reposition or merge, plus the whole face seemed to be very sad and depressed. I think i fixed it.

Please check it out.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/4lphso

You may also click HERE to see my 3d items and weapons.

~ Sorry for any language bugs. Doing my best.

Offline Luther Blissett

  • Moderator
Re: 3d models development
« Reply #2327 on: May 10, 2012, 05:34:39 pm »
I don't want to be  a dick but are those VD textures made in MS Paint ?

No, but they almost could have been - which is sort of the point. If you read the words from the post and the last few above it, you should get a better sense of what we were looking at and why :P

[...]glitches in the newest mutant model's face.

I'm pretty sure some of those are just triangulation / quadrangulation between imports and exports - particularly the bits around the eyes (I remember these issues when I was aligning all the UV maps between the character models). I see you've brought the cheeks in and mouth out a little too. Seems pretty cleanly done, and doesn't break the UVs.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2012, 05:49:42 pm by Luther Blissett »

Re: 3d models development
« Reply #2328 on: May 10, 2012, 08:14:12 pm »
Breathtaking impressive, guys.
Wasteland is a tricky business.

Re: 3d models development
« Reply #2329 on: May 10, 2012, 09:35:36 pm »
@NastyKhan
The repair on the face seems nice. The extra vertex were there probably due to the export importings. NastyKhan you are making serious progresses here.

@Luther
These testings seems interesting. I wonder if the other critters (fat guy, females, dogs) would produce a similar result.

I really like how things going and I'm feeling that I should get my stuffs together and start to do some more massive animating especially now that x export from blender seems to work.

Offline Johnnybravo

  • Hey there!
Re: 3d models development
« Reply #2330 on: May 10, 2012, 10:50:06 pm »

Well the best thing you might want to try is to play with lighting settings.
To me it looks as if the light direction was not vertically correct.

Now when we look at textures in original artwork it's pretty obvious the grain on most of the sprites out there are actually overdone bump-mapping used everywhere back in 90s. I don't think resolution will be high enough so we'd ever have to care about it, texture might be adjusted with some grain or noise, I think you understand better how to achieve that :d.

Quote
Regarding specular stuff, I was initially thinking the metal armours were potentially a nightmare, but to be honest it doesn't look too frightening to me.
Well, Karpov already had something very nice for metal, problem is that there is apparently quite a lot of this on leather, fabric and skin in fallout - just like you can see on that metal armor. Finding correct intensity and masking correct parts of models, that's going to be really tricky. Not impossible though. And with all due respect, some guys already made plenty of mistakes when they were making skins for certain armors, so that they already contain most of shading and even reflections. Those will be perhaps useful for creating specular masks, but the skins themself are not going to appear correctly if they are not redone without shading (outside of details not present in model, for that is normal map that is not yet used).

I'd be worried about performance though. Used lighting model requires shaders (not sure if fonline runs without them though), and it's quite expensive compared to legacy methods and fixed pipeline rendering, But then again this is for 3D models running on 2D scenery, and performance of per-pixel tasks is obviously tied to pixels used on screen, which is fairly low.
If by any means there'd have to be lightweight version with legacy vertex lighting, we'd need another textures for models, because lighting done by engine might not appear correct.

I was also thinking a bit about pixelisation requested before. To be honest, possibly best solution for it is to actually ignore it.
As you might have noticed, 2D renderer does not scale sprites up, so in fact 2D is ALWAYS rendered 1:1 whenever not zoomed in. Zooming in is not any useful in 2D anyway, so that like only real problem is the usage of palette and aliasing on sprites (which is fairly well emulated by just doing nothing - turning AA off :d).
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Offline NastyKhan

  • One man army: Graphic, music and game designer.
Re: 3d models development
« Reply #2331 on: May 10, 2012, 11:16:13 pm »
@NastyKhan
The repair on the face seems nice. The extra vertex were there probably due to the export importings. NastyKhan you are making serious progresses here.

Thank you :) So i'll remake all my skins and models to fit the new shape. I'm losing orientation so i suggest to begin naming models by author and version. What would you say for o name "Supermutant J3" ? (j for Jotisz and 3, because after my fixes it's total third version)

You may also click HERE to see my 3d items and weapons.

~ Sorry for any language bugs. Doing my best.

Offline Luther Blissett

  • Moderator
Re: 3d models development
« Reply #2332 on: May 11, 2012, 12:13:12 am »
Jotisz - the bluesuit is particularly plain - I'd imagine some of the others would need quite a bit more detail to work - but the process would be the same for other characters and armour models etc. If a greyscale texture can be made of each, colours can be layered in easily, then extra details added on another layer and so on.

Note that the Blender .x export itself seemed slightly garbled when I tested it, but the fbx one was perfect and easily converted. I'm still unable to import any of the existing rigs into Blender properly unfortunately, but will continue to try things every now and again. It would help a lot with speeding up the animation if our Blender specialists could access the existing animation work and rigs.

Johnnybravo - writing the lighting settings is one of the bits I'm really not very good with, so that's better left for someone else. I'm okay at positioning lights in a 3D program and adjusting in real time, but writing text, then loading to see what it's done is something I'm not familiar with. Alsol, the floor shadow appears correct - I assume this would move if we moved the lighting?

Grain / noise is probably right - it could be finer detail, but it's only really going to look like grain in game at 100% zoom (I tried a denim texture on some model, in game it was merely a slight grey noise). I suppose the question is whether we simply "apply noise" to the texture, or apply fine details which will ultimately only look like noise. I think I'd have to test both to see what the difference was visually.

I remember Karpov's test stuff on specular - and it worked pretty well. It would need some fine tuning to match sprites, but I think it's possible. I'm trying to think if there's some way to work out where / how it should be. The projection painted stuff gives us a bit of an indication, but otherwise it pretty much involves studying lots of sprites. Depends how perfect we want it. It might be as simple as a slightly tweaked greyscale version of the texture to be applied to the model, then brightened or darkened as a whole depending on the material it represents. Again, won't really know until it's tested. Regarding existing textures, eventually a lot of them will probably want redoing, depending on how sprite-accurate we want them to be. I know the ones I did certainly have a lot of painted on lighting, as the lighting effect we were using at the time was a lot further from accurate, and they needed a lot of this to look even slightly "in-game style". The lighting in game is better now, so a lot of that shadow is redundant.

Ultimately, my main thought is simply to keep colour, detail and shading elements on separate layers in layered source textures. We get them as close as we can by any means necessary. If / when we improve lighting /normal mapping etc, we alter the relevant layer. Should be easier to "mass adjust" rather than "mass redo" everything.

Nastykhan - You can name them however you like really, but they do need renaming specifically when they're put into game along with other models and textures. Your suggestion sounds a pretty good idea to keep track of things in progress though, but I'd suggest using 2 or 3 letters per person.

Offline NastyKhan

  • One man army: Graphic, music and game designer.
Re: 3d models development
« Reply #2333 on: May 11, 2012, 01:15:10 am »
Your suggestion sounds a pretty good idea to keep track of things in progress though, but I'd suggest using 2 or 3 letters per person.
That's really important when you make textures to note which model it's compatible with. Form of naming doesn't really matter for me though. I just want something shorter and more clear than "the least Jotisz's model with NastyKhan's face corrections". ;) "Supermutant Jot3" sounds good to me - let's wait for Jotisz's respond however.

You may also click HERE to see my 3d items and weapons.

~ Sorry for any language bugs. Doing my best.

Offline Luther Blissett

  • Moderator
Re: 3d models development
« Reply #2334 on: May 11, 2012, 02:20:57 am »
For the character models, all of the textures should be compatible with all the models initially - the UV maps are all aligned the same.

Offline Luther Blissett

  • Moderator
Re: 3d models development
« Reply #2335 on: May 21, 2012, 02:13:47 am »
1) Double post apology.

2) Been looking to see if I could get anything to respond with the normal mapping stuff, but so far nothing. There is a 3D_NormalMapping.fx in some of my test repos - I can't remember if it came with the original SDK or if one of you guys wrote it. Anyway, when simply added to the fo3d files, it doesn't do anything. Does it need an "EffDef" thing to accompany it perhaps?

I also tried to look at some newer SDK revisions, to see if that'd make any difference, but I can't even get those to run properly. Singleplayer doesn't seem to connect to where the data is and just brings up "error" on all the buttons, trying to run an internal server autokicks my client connection from it, so just gives me a black screen (log shows as "Connection timeout, client kicked, maybe bot").

Anyone got any ideas on either of these? It's stuff I've had working with previous revisions, so I'm guessing I've just forgotten to add something in a config file or something suchlike.

Offline Johnnybravo

  • Hey there!
Re: 3d models development
« Reply #2336 on: May 23, 2012, 10:28:16 am »
It needs some definition to compute tangent space for the model.
Quote
@code
CalculateTangentSpace [2]
@endcode
Включение расчета касательного пространства, тангента и бинормали, которые можно использовать в эффектах, см. файл IOStructures.inc.
Or google translate:
Quote
@ code
CalculateTangentSpace [2]
@ endcode
The inclusion of the tangent space calculation, PTT, and binormal, which can be used in the effects, see the file IOStructures.inc.
According to documentation [2] means it's used only once, but that's pretty obvious.
Example in docs:
Code: [Select]
Model    Box.3ds
CalculateTangentSpace
Subset 0 Texture 0 DED.tga
Subset 0 Texture 1 DEN.tga
Subset 1 Texture 0 DrD.tga
Subset 1 Texture 1 DIntrN.tga
Subset -1 Effect 3D_NormalMapping.fx
« Last Edit: May 23, 2012, 10:33:01 am by Johnnybravo »
"What is this, I don't even"
"This is your forum."

Offline Luther Blissett

  • Moderator
Re: 3d models development
« Reply #2337 on: May 23, 2012, 01:14:52 pm »
Many thanks :)

Will test this when I'm back from work.

[edit] No luck so far :(
« Last Edit: May 24, 2012, 06:27:22 am by Luther Blissett »

Offline Luther Blissett

  • Moderator
Re: 3d models development
« Reply #2338 on: June 03, 2012, 01:51:29 am »
Still had no luck with normal maps, but have had some success with some other bits of test stuff, namely beards and linking things in script files.

Not a lot to show visually, but here's some test beard / moustache / hair combos :



The models / textures aren't great, but they work anyway. They can be improved later. The bit at the bottom shows the altered "selection" stuff from the character reg screen, which links up correctly to colours and styles.

Offline Surf

  • Moderator
  • это моё.
Re: 3d models development
« Reply #2339 on: June 03, 2012, 02:01:40 am »
Luther don't be shy and show the sprite sheet you showed me 2 days ago here too. :P I drooled in anticapation, I am sure the others will like it too!