Author Topic: 3d models development  (Read 678197 times)

Offline Haraldx

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Re: 3d models development
« Reply #1590 on: May 11, 2011, 07:12:57 pm »
yepp, I forgot to mention about splines conversion into mesh after all adjustments :) splines itself are just a way to get wire shapes quickly :)

upd:
here is my version of Tool


I noticed White Tiger's version just before texturing mine, so I decided to finish it and you guys just choose which one goes to the game :)

https://rapidshare.com/files/461815697/Tool.zip

Cheers!
Is it just me or the texture is 256x256? We've said this like over 9000 times - items may have only 128x128. Anyways - too much polygons.
I still can be reached over e-mail if you somehow need anything from me. Don't see a reason why you would, but if you do, e-mail remains the safest bet, as I do not visit this forum reliably anymore.

Re: 3d models development
« Reply #1591 on: May 11, 2011, 08:19:54 pm »
2100 polys?  ??? Dude, are you serious?  :P Even APA barely have that many polys... and it's like 20 times bigger than this device.

Please do something to these wires, make a texture and it would be fine.

Yes, i knew it was still too high. Thats why i was asking for help :). Im at a poly count of 161 all in all at the moment. Maybe this is still too high, though. Texture still needs to be done and i'm currently working on it.

Offline Lexx

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Re: 3d models development
« Reply #1592 on: May 11, 2011, 09:01:35 pm »
Is it just me or the texture is 256x256? We've said this like over 9000 times - items may have only 128x128. Anyways - too much polygons.

Well, textures can be scalled down. For the mini-items, it's questionable if 128x128px is really needed or if it can be even 50% smaller.

Offline Luther Blissett

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Re: 3d models development
« Reply #1593 on: May 11, 2011, 09:06:56 pm »
Given the relative size of the model in game, you could probably get away with :
1) A box with a sloped front
2) A box on the side of it
3) A 3 sided tube underneath
4) Ignore the wires
5) Stick a texture on it

It'll be less than a centimetre on screen, even at maximum zoom, so this would look roughly the same as the high poly equivalent, probably in about 30-40 triangles.

Same with the pliers (tool) above, ignore the fine detail on the handle - handles as two 3 or 4 sided tubes, with a block in the middle, with two 3 or 4 sides tubes for the head - probably get something around 30-40 triangles.

It's a shame to simplify them so much, as these models are quite beautiful, but if you look at the digram below, horribly low-poly models would probably be better for the game, with little difference visually.


The models I've just made as example are probably a bit too far in simplification (and possibly the two ugliest models I've ever made), but if you get the idea of "ignore everything which can't be seen in the game", there must be something in roughly the same area of triangles which would work as well.

The short version is "the model is too good for items this size".

Is it just me or the texture is 256x256? We've said this like over 9000 times - items may have only 128x128. Anyways - too much polygons.

I think the textures will all be resized, paletted and dithered, so having the source file at a slightly higher resolution isn't going to matter too much - I uploaded most of the things I did with a far higher texture resolution, as it's easier to repair / alter / recolour when there's a few more pixels (and full RGB colour) available, then resize the final one. These tiny items may even want to be as low as 64x or 32x eventually - if the 3D items will also be 3D on the floor (instead of changing to sprites when out of hands), imagine how much difference it could make when someone makes a "Brahmin shit party in NCR" for example.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2011, 09:08:46 pm by Luther Blissett »

Offline Gray

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Re: 3d models development
« Reply #1594 on: May 11, 2011, 09:39:51 pm »
Is it just me or the texture is 256x256? We've said this like over 9000 times - items may have only 128x128.
Texture size is not a problem at all. You can resize it any time with any graphic editor and it will work properly.

Offline pistacja

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Re: 3d models development
« Reply #1595 on: May 11, 2011, 10:26:13 pm »
Guys, don't overdo on the optimisation.
40 or 120 tris makes absolutely no  difference performance wise.  If there will be a slowdown when rendering 500 tools then it will be because the graphic pipeline has to reset for every object (mesh). Once the GPU gets cranking it's tristrips, trifans and all the other tricks in the book all the way, drawing a extra triangle in a tristrip takes the same time as drawing 100 more (well, maybe a Plank Time or two longer :P).   

The same goes for textures, 256x256 is what? 300kb in video memory? And how much memory has a (semi)modern graphic card 1GB? Even uncompressed, even with mip-mapping you can squeeze over 2000 textures that size into video ram before thing get messy. 

I know that for small objects it is not needed to have a detailed texture and model... but if it easer to make them with a few extra polygons, then c'mon, give the modellers a brake.

Do some benchmarking and if it turns out I'm wrong, then the "hi" poly models still can be used as higher level LOD.

Offline Gray

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Re: 3d models development
« Reply #1596 on: May 11, 2011, 10:42:18 pm »
The same goes for textures, 256x256 is what? 300kb in video memory?
2 Mb exactly. Textures are always loaded in video memory uncompressed.

Offline Majer

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Re: 3d models development
« Reply #1597 on: May 11, 2011, 10:53:26 pm »
The thing is, that they are loaded blazing fast. Also, some objects could share one texture to prevent waste of space.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2011, 10:55:11 pm by Majer »

Offline Ganado

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Re: 3d models development
« Reply #1598 on: May 11, 2011, 10:59:29 pm »
Is there a way to make it so that 3D models fade as they go out of your Field of Vision, like normal 2D models?
Error while opening cfg file: spawnnpc.cfg
Shit! Damn admins! Always ruining my fun! I guess I'll talk to them. WITH MY FISTS!!!! No seriously, I will write them a nice email or make a thread on the forums or something. Thanks!

Re: 3d models development
« Reply #1599 on: May 11, 2011, 11:06:07 pm »
Is it just me or the texture is 256x256? We've said this like over 9000 times - items may have only 128x128. Anyways - too much polygons.
Nope, texture is 128 here. And I've read about tex size, but gave up after reading it 7498 times, sorry ;D
Polys can be easily reduced by anyone, its not a big deal I think.

Cheers!

Offline pistacja

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Re: 3d models development
« Reply #1600 on: May 12, 2011, 09:43:27 am »
2 Mb exactly. Textures are always loaded in video memory uncompressed.
256x256 pixels, 32 bits per pixel, 8 bits per byte, 1024 bytes per kilo byte, 1024 kb per Mb... Thats 2Mb? Well maybe it is, I'm a blond, don't ask me to do math.

But always uncompressed? No. DDS and they are compressed in video ram, but I've wrote that elsewere already ;)

Offline Gray

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Re: 3d models development
« Reply #1601 on: May 12, 2011, 10:25:24 am »
256x256 pixels, 32 bits per pixel, 8 bits per byte, 1024 bytes per kilo byte, 1024 kb per Mb... Thats 2Mb? Well maybe it is, I'm a blond, don't ask me to do math.
Sorry, You're right. Three night works in a row...
But always uncompressed? No. DDS and they are compressed in video ram, but I've wrote that elsewere already ;)
Memory can't be compressed, AFAIK. It's direct calculations... argh... It's hard to explain with my language level.
Maybe something changed since I've study graphics, but I doubt.

Offline Graf

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Re: 3d models development
« Reply #1602 on: May 12, 2011, 10:58:36 am »
Tried to make a Nuka-Cola as it looks on the sprite. Though, it have too many polys, so probably it wouldn't be used. Also, I've used a Mr_Gazo's textures, coz it I knew from the beginning that it would have to many polys, so there was no sense to make my own textures.

« Last Edit: May 12, 2011, 11:18:20 am by Graf »

Offline pistacja

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Re: 3d models development
« Reply #1603 on: May 12, 2011, 12:21:02 pm »
Sorry, You're right. Three night works in a row...Memory can't be compressed, AFAIK. It's direct calculations... argh... It's hard to explain with my language level.
Maybe something changed since I've study graphics, but I doubt.
The thing exists since mid '90, I think Rage 3d was the first one to use it, but don't quote me on that. Look up dds, dxt and hardware texture compression on wikipedia.
The texture is stored compressed and if its used it gets uncompressed on the fly with no noticable slowdown. 

Offline Gray

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Re: 3d models development
« Reply #1604 on: May 12, 2011, 12:44:16 pm »
The texture is stored compressed and if its used it gets uncompressed on the fly with no noticable slowdown.  
We are talking about the same thing, but different stages of process :)
Of course, it may be stored compressed, but in use it can't, because it's a pixel processing, you should know exact texel's color to calculate it.
Now it's clear :)
Anyway, there is no reason in making over-detailed models or textures. It's just a resource waste, they will be barely half used.
On the other hand, 4-hours optimization for 10 polygons economy has no reason too.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2011, 12:50:55 pm by Gray »