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[LeonTheNorse]

Nice nitpicking, anyway i said some towns full pvp 1 rp?

And there is nothing said about "rp" town not being raided by gangs. I am just thinking what would please both sides of the fence.

Some want just pvp, fine i like pvp as well but there is also gangs ingame that want rp. Why not allow them one town, and in return gangs(pvp) could come raid it as an example?

[Rascal]

u really cant read ? go and take necropolis and make ur "RP" there.

[Wichura]

This is not the right thread for "pvp-rp-pve" bullshit, lads.

I honestly have no idea how TC should look like (especially that it's not specified what "T" stands for - Town, Tree, Toilet, I dunno), so I won't be useful here.

north is for pvp only, period. only hypocrites or idiots think in other way.

+1, I don't like these tight-asses from Vault City either.

[Rascal]

yeye I really caught the joke but.... even You know what the "north" means trollochura

[falloutdude]

we take north towns because they have millita (need them to help defend rp vs apes like you come all the time) and have tc chest (need to support are rp with CAPS) its not just shitty excuse for loot. most of money and items from chest are used to support rp we dont gain much trust me there. only reason we gain is because the rpers give us stuff they craft for helping them and stuff from apes like you. also.... really how can you say that rpers do it all for the loot... i mean right now tsar is trying to take den.... not redding. den has shit rewards but we do it for the RP we hope to get when you sot realize that den is not even worth defending for you guys. reallly why you guys have den? you have redding and bh where all massive rewards are. take my idea , go defend redding and bh and leave den be before another faction comes along who wants them and you will be to busy with dens shitty rewards that you will lose redding and bh.... but anyway. know the truth before you speak about rp and there defending gangs.

am really sorry solar for trolling your topic, sot just piss me off..... no common sense in them.

[Lordus]

 Dear Solar,
 first of all, i want to tell you, that i like that you want change current TC.

 I have readed your suggestion and i noticed several ideas you want to implement.

a) You want to replace inactivity of gangs by their activity = scenarios. No more loitering. It is very good aproach, natural outcome of recent players and factions activities (gathering, leveling, crafting, establishing bases, and finaly player's faction scenarios).

b) Scenario system gives a great opportunity to get a life (attract players) to exact locations. Brahmin herders, gecko repairmans, .. . It is a great potential, because you can add another "TC" quests into existing system. Some of them could be more PvE, or supporting (somehow) roleplay element, others could be focused only at hardcore PVP players.

c) What is the meaning of faction controling north city? I mean if they have max influence, if they won city in combat against others, if they are able to force their rules. IMHO i dont think, that majority or most players and factions will benefit from ability to rule the city. Most wants caps, ammo, stuff, opportunity to fight, enjoy some adrenalin (would i repair gecko reactor first i would be killed first), meet randomly some friends (hey!, you are doing this quest too?) or others (hey!, dont ..#@%.) So simply, creating whole TC system, subordinate the whole mechanism to tiny group of players, is bad.


-----> I have readed other's commentary here. Most PvP players are afraid of doing something they dont want to. I understand them (i dont like loitering), but i disagree with them, that north should be only pure PvP, because scenario based "TC" offers a great opportunity for both types fo gangs (PvP only, or small gangs that wants to enjoy some risky tasks in hostile environment). And dont forget Solar, that gang PvP is also activity, you dont need to replace it by another.

 My idea: Implement in every "TC" city basic repetable PVP faction quest with beacon. It could be named as s "No man's caravan". Story: In wasteland was caravan, that was attacked by raiders. All men were killed, but brahmin-drawn caravan escaped and continuied to its destiantion without any human (it is natural instinct of domesticated animal). Caravan arrived to city, where sheriff noticed it what happended (blood spots, "oh, it is johnnys caravan, he is dead!"). According to the norh city law, if possesor of property is dead, everyone who claims for the caravan's content will get it. Sheriff will declare claim (server message). If there are more claimers, acording to the wasteland law, stronger wil get it.

 So every one hour (half hour?) in every city could exists PvP action created by beacon. You would need a faction of some exact strenght, discutable is kind of investition to this (500 caps?), so players would not activate it and then left.

--
 Back to your suggestion Solar. Anyone who fires should then not be protected by the guards, so gangs can defend themselves by returning fire and similar rules are only a great opportunity how to abuse it.


 I will even eliminate the milita. Militia is the reason, why you have to create hord, if you want to PvP in city, you simply cannot play 1x1 or 2x2 PvP in cities, where militia is presented, because you dont know if that person is member of city controling gang. Militia was never strong enough to protect loitering of town possesors (= to protect their roleplay) and it was always disbalancing thing when you want to attack equivalent enemy. Why we need militia? To protect final state of Town Control in cities = LOITERING! "Nice".

 If anyone wants to protect their !activity! in wasteland, he should do it by own (players, mercs, diplomacy) and when anyone who is controling TC is not active in city, he should not blocade activity of others by militia (you cannot free pvp in city with militia = becuase of random hits of militia or one sniper with bb gun ruining game of others pvp groups.

  And last:

 I like you want to discuss your suggestions with players. But because of high trolling and ofensive enviroment in this thread, i give you little advice. About faction PvP discuss with PvP factions only. Not with other players, but not even directly with players of PvP factions. Order to all PvP factions which were able to control at least once any town this session, to choose their ONE representative player here and talk with them only.

 Best egards,
 Lordus.

[kttdestroyer]

Rascal, just becouse you dont like to RP doesint mean that other shouldint, right? Becouse you definetly miss the point, RP in south towns? No thanks.

If anyone wants to protect their !activity! in wasteland, he should do it by own (players, mercs, diplomacy) and when anyone who is controling TC is not active in city, he should not blocade activity of others by militia (you cannot free pvp in city with militia = becuase of random hits of militia or one sniper with bb gun ruining game of others pvp groups.

Mostly i disagree with you. I would just like to take opportunity to say more on militia. I wouldint call something for "Strong" if they can be all killed in matter of 30 minutes - 1 hour by 3 players. They are overpowered becouse they are overretarded still. And yes, that is exacly what militia is for, to unable smaller group of players (equal at some specific point of time) to be able to attack larger. It acually makes defending possible at all (or made, now there are some issues i guess).

[Lordus]

Mostly i disagree with you. I would just like to take opportunity to say more on militia.  And yes, that is exacly what militia is for, to unable smaller group of players (equal at some specific point of time) to be able to attack larger. It acually makes defending possible at all (or made, now there are some issues i guess).

 The milita absurdity is in fact, that devs are balancing and scripting, but it is not just worthless work, but it even harms fonline gameplay.

  Whole problem of militia is not about it strenght or numbers. It is about its role, efectivity and side effects. I.e.: Role n.1 is to protect city against enemy takeover => partial result (most od small and part of medium gangs are unable to capture city in adequate time), but alliances or huge gang or night players can simply capture it. Result = city cannot be defended, but majority of players are unable to capture city, benefit from its quests, resources or other opportunities because of potential milita marker. Sideweffect = milita block other players activity in that city. Why? Because of noble idea of better defence of city. This is defacto what you said.

 I suggested post before, that if players wants to create any activity somewhere, they should actively defense it. Bring mercs, more players, sneak scouts. Make temporary alliance. But at moment, when you leave city and you are inactive, give other players and gangs oportunity to make their own action there. Dont block it by militia.

 I suggest divide scenarios into PvP beacons only and resource scenarios. I can imagine even 2 type of PvP scenarios. One for huge fights is that i suggeted post before (Dead man's caravan) with global onscreen beacon, other could be smaller. No onscreen beacon, smaller reward. Players would notice enemy presence only because of some exact location activity (i.e. NPC is texting some message about hostile faction), so only players and gangs who are active in cities can notice it and attack. This could support 2x2, 3x3 fights.

[avv]

Whole problem of militia is not about it strenght or numbers. It is about its role, efectivity and side effects. I.e.: Role n.1 is to protect city against enemy takeover => partial result (most od small and part of medium gangs are unable to capture city in adequate time), but alliances or huge gang or night players can simply capture it. Result = city cannot be defended, but majority of players are unable to capture city, benefit from its quests, resources or other opportunities because of potential milita marker. Sideweffect = milita block other players activity in that city. Why? Because of noble idea of better defence of city. This is defacto what you said.

Militia shouldn't pay any role in gang vs gang bussiness. Its role should be simply to provide feeling of safety to people who want to stay inside town, would be used against trolls, thieves and suicidebursters. Those are the main annoyance in safe towns and that's why tc towns are so comfortable to live in: you can set your own rules.
But once a tc gang marches in and starts capturing, the militia should walk away and see who wins. Militia walking away would be reasonably good suggestion for everyone to evacuate the town. While leaving they could speak like "Damn, I'ts getting too hot around here".

[kttdestroyer]

But once a tc gang marches in and starts capturing, the militia should walk away and see who wins. Militia walking away would be reasonably good suggestion for everyone to evacuate the town. While leaving they could speak like "Damn, I'ts getting too hot around here".

This wont work, and i am sure if you remember how WWP was you will know what i am talking about Many many times militia was the only thing that saved the town from invaders, becouse attackers have one big advantage, They can attack anytime, Defenders have no idea when it will happen. This would lead to a situation like this: There are 3 active defenders in town, rest is doing something else, like crafting hunting for stuff or whatever, and 5 guys in CA and avengers jump in, they kill the defenders with easy, defenders are relaxed, most dont have drugs on even, and militia walks away. It would be a mess.

[Lordus]

This wont work, and i am sure if you remember how WWP was you will know what i am talking about Many many times militia was the only thing that saved the town from invaders, becouse attackers have one big advantage, They can attack anytime, Defenders have no idea when it will happen. This would lead to a situation like this: There are 3 active defenders in town, rest is doing something else, like crafting hunting for stuff or whatever, and 5 guys in CA and avengers jump in, they kill the defenders with easy, defenders are relaxed, most dont have drugs on even, and militia walks away. It would be a mess.

 This is exactly i am talking about. Because of "roleplay" project based on "crafting hunting stuff or whatever", you need militia in cities. You were doing this "roleplay" in one city for several weeks few hours per day and militia you needed for this blocked all other time in favourite cities most of other actions. Why are you, northern city roleplayers, so obsesed with militia?

 I think that it is time to accept truth. TC is at dead end. It never created adequate environment for roleplay and supporting needed requirement would only totaly eliminate others possible activities.

 P.S.: I dont want to be offensive. I just think, that this game realy needs some kind of constant. Exact defined reason, why i can every day choose from several freetimes activities and one possible solution, how to spend free time could be fonline PvP action. This could be reason to leave and go back after few weeks or months, if i would like to enjoy fonline. Of course the same for regular players. I doubt, that any kind of city roleplay would give me this opportunity, it never did.

[avv]

This wont work, and i am sure if you remember how WWP was you will know what i am talking about Many many times militia was the only thing that saved the town from invaders, becouse attackers have one big advantage, They can attack anytime, Defenders have no idea when it will happen. This would lead to a situation like this: There are 3 active defenders in town, rest is doing something else, like crafting hunting for stuff or whatever, and 5 guys in CA and avengers jump in, they kill the defenders with easy, defenders are relaxed, most dont have drugs on even, and militia walks away. It would be a mess.

But it's ok. Once you see militia leaving, you should be smart enough to leave with it. Then you gather your pals and fight off the invaders with players. If the enemy has enough troops to start tc, they deserve to start it. In WWP we smashed our enemies more often with militia than with actual troops and our enemies hated it. Then we hated it when they took our town when we weren't around and fought us back with militia.

[John Porno]

This wont work, and i am sure if you remember how WWP was you will know what i am talking about Many many times militia was the only thing that saved the town from invaders

...and then cs learned how to take advantage of the fonline engine to kill all militia very fast with very few people.

Even with militia you need a big number of people inside to defend a town. However, if you have a militia that only atacks player groups of less than 5 people you'd be relatively safe from these constant attacks while not causing too much of an annoyance to the rest of the server.

THe problem with last wipe militia was not the militia itself, it was that 20 bg milita with 400+ hp and a critchance of 30%.

With a reasonable militia system it would be able to defend a town against small time attacks and trolls while not playing the most important role in tc. Basicall what rascal said on the first page.

[Kilgore]

a reasonable militia system it would be able to defend a town against small time attacks and trolls while not playing the most important role in tc. Basicall what rascal said on the first page.

Basically what was written in the very first concept for militia (17.02.2010, cheers):

http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=1976.msg16027#msg16027

The mercs should be limited in numbers not to make them a real force in a normal battle, but they should be strong enough to stop bluesuit-trolls taking the town or really small, unorganised groups. In case of a real attack on town they should just give the defenders a bit more time to prepare.

Btw: the whole idea of militia going peacefully out of the town when the timer is started is probably the most ridiculous idea considering TC that I've ever read.

[kttdestroyer]

Acually i dont have any idea why this talk about militia comes up, for me it doesint have anything to do with current systems problems... Did you guys got killed by militia or something? Current system makes it pointless to strike militia at all, as they will become yours after you capture the town... Hell, it is pretty much like avv suggested right now acually 

...

2-3 people well placed can defend against 5-15 people quite well with militia. IF militia is 20 and merc militia with 400+ hp that is otherwise, militia wont help you defending the town. And for the costs, well, they cost loads, so the price evens itself with the quality.

Like i said, strenght of militia is equal to their dumbness, which means high strenght of militia and low intelligence.