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It sucks balls. I'm bored, enough of this shit.

It is great! Everybody likes world map campfest!

[Solar]

Well, we want there to be more factions than just NA vs DA or anything similar, so rewarding for allies would be opposite to that.

[Nice_Boat]

Well, we want there to be more factions than just NA vs DA or anything similar, so rewarding for allies would be opposite to that.

If you want more factions, remove the "window" for combat. It doesn't allow for more than 2 factions, cause essentially even if you had 3, the 2 starting the fighting would get raped by the last one entering. Add more and the "snake" becomes even longer. If you want to have "windows" for TC, you have to take alliances into account (if you don't people are simply going to "fuck the system" and add fighting chars into a proxy base or something like that which will make the alliances much closer). Saying that you want to have "windows" and more than 2 big factions is simply schisophrenic.

[vedaras]

Your suggestion sucks for 1 simple reason, you are only thinking about yourself, yes it would be better for gangs, more fights and so on, but simple people with bluesuites couldnt enter towns and do quests so half of fallout spirit would be out of the game. Even now many people are crying that they lost metzger package or died when they picked reward.

I think that town could be taken for a longer time, but just not for 24h a day for sure.

[Solar]

If you want more factions, remove the "window" for combat. It doesn't allow for more than 2 factions, cause essentially even if you had 3, the 2 starting the fighting would get raped by the last one entering.

At which point the 3rd has to wait out their time, when 1st and 2nd can come back. Don't think its the TC system, DA vs NA was from before new TC IIRC, rather the fact that more players win fights ... thus the arms race begins.

[Nice_Boat]

At which point the 3rd has to wait out their time, when 1st and 2nd can come back.

No, because it happens/can happen on multple locations at once and not all the players are present at all times. Pre-wipe you had a few FFAs with 3 or even 4 gangs/groups, right now the very notion is ridiculous. Mostly it was about small scale skirmishes (from 5 up to 10 people per side), which were pretty fun and could take hours of non-stop fighting, which was REALLY fun. Right now combat is all about waiting, which maybe is realistic, but from a gamer's point of view sucks.

Don't think its the TC system, DA vs NA was from before new TC IIRC, rather the fact that more players win fights ... thus the arms race begins.

NA was formed to counter BBS domination post-wipe, DA was formed to nullify NA's superior numbers.

[Solar]

Indeed, independently of TC. But anyway, its easy to add multiple towns being open at once to simulate the same thing

[Nice_Boat]

Indeed, independently of TC. But anyway, its easy to add multiple towns being open at once to simulate the same thing

If you had all the towns open for TC between, say, GMT+1 15 till 23 that'd do the trick, yeah. But you'd have to rework the reward system to award gangs for keeping the town for a given ammount of time instead of "taking the day" there or else everything would happen at 22:30 and we'd be knee deep in the same old shit again.

[Bartosz]

All I can say: you just convince and settle it with Solar, and we're set:)

[Solar]

Well, lets try and get some consensus.

1. More TC windows.
2. Overlapping windows, 2 (or more) towns at once?
3. Bonus for members who have remained on the map for the entire capture time
4. Lower / Keep the countdown time
5. NPC "Mercs" for TC (from the other thread)
6. Unique "points" which can be used to trade from more unique items (I guess this will be combined with allying to NPC factions)
7. XP for TC?
8. Removal of other NPC's during TC hour?
9. Town reputation not affecting players in TC hour, obviously not needed if 8 happened
10. NPC "Raiders" attacking controlling factions?

Other things?

[Kilgore]

1. More TC windows.
- Yes, definitely, or disable perm control.

2. Overlapping windows, 2 (or more) towns at once?
- Yes.

3. Bonus for members who have remained on the map for the entire capture time
- Not necessary.

4. Lower / Keep the countdown time
- Keep, it's good.

5. NPC "Mercs" for TC (from the other thread)
- Nope. Too many changes at once.

6. Unique "points" which can be used to trade from more unique items (I guess this will be combined with allying to NPC factions)
- This requires further discussion, but yes.

7. XP for TC?
- Not necessary + seems exploitable.

8. Removal of other NPC's during TC hour?
- Yes

9. Town reputation not affecting players in TC hour, obviously not needed if 8 happened
- Yes


10. NPC "Raiders" attacking controlling factions?
- Nope.


Other things?
- Cooldown for preview during TC hours.

[Nice_Boat]

1. More TC windows.

Yeah, that's a necessary addition.


2. Overlapping windows, 2 (or more) towns at once?

Yes, for reasons mentioned above.


3. Bonus for members who have remained on the map for the entire capture time

Not really sure, but I'm leaning towards no - more doesn't really mean "better" and it could introduce the "let's have a proxy gang for TC" factor I mentioned above (it really would be "proper play" in that situation and the only thing that'd keep it from becoming reality would be the potential laziness of players).


4. Lower / Keep the countdown time

Keep it, countdown time = combat time.


5. NPC "Mercs" for TC (from the other thread)

Depends. If you want to have a long TC window for all towns, than yes, if 3 - very limited, if 2 - disabled. The number of "TC rounds" (ie. times the TC windows start) could also be taken into account to a lesser extent. The idea behind the militia or "mercs" was that they'd give the faction some time to react in a situation when every town can be attacked at any time, this rationale isn't really there when you know which town gets attacked because of the "attack window".


6. Unique "points" which can be used to trade from more unique items (I guess this will be combined with allying to NPC factions)

I'm really excited about this, seems to be an awesome idea.


7. XP for TC?

Wouldn't matter much since TC is basically 21 lvl char thingie and like Kilgore said it seems a bit exploitable.


8. Removal of other NPC's during TC hour?

If 9 can't be done, yes.


9. Town reputation not affecting players in TC hour, obviously not needed if 8 happened

Yeah, but only if the reaction to being hit by a stray bullet wouldn't be the entire town becoming hell bent on taking your head. Karma could be lost by such individuals, which would be enough of a punishment for not checking your fire.


10. NPC "Raiders" attacking controlling factions?

No. Exploitable by the attackers.


Other things?

Kilgore said to have a cooldown on preview during TC window, I'd go a step further. Keep the preview as it is, but when the town becomes open for TC, simply disable it. It's not even that gamey if you think in terms of "something's hanging in the air, so we're searching for those bastards with binoculars right now"

[Nightkin]

" 8. Removal of other NPC's during TC hour? " nah, put all the npc's inside there homes like what would really happen like when the great wipe of moses, red paint above doors lol , you cant enter someones home without repercussions neways idk what im saying im drunk sorry

[Surf]

" 8. Removal of other NPC's during TC hour? "

Wow. The Northern Towns are now as good as dead and you want them to become even more empty? Why don't name Klamath "Pvp Town #1", Modoc "Pvp Town #2" etc? You guys seem to hate fallout/2 pretty much.

[maszrum]

3. Bonus for members who have remained on the map for the entire capture time

i like this, but what about small gangs ? maybe lets make northencities more alive and add this bonus money buy ammout/sum? / player citizens / visitors / _alive_npcs  / in town by every hour
that will force gang who controling city for making town safe , wihtout pointless killing beginners ;]

sorry dont know how to explain this - i dont speak much english ;]

[Nice_Boat]

Wow. The Northern Towns are now as good as dead and you want them to become even more empty? Why don't name Klamath "Pvp Town #1", Modoc "Pvp Town #2" etc? You guys seem to hate fallout/2 pretty much.

It's because AI is too stupid to fend for themselves and NPCs just stand in the way all the time doing nothing but being annoying. People hide in their basements when there's a battle going on in their dwellings, so it makes much more sense than pedestrians standing in the streets like nothing's wrong. AFAIR streets got sort of empty in F2 too during some "prescheduled" shootouts (the one in Redding being the most obvious example). It just makes sense both from gameplay and setting (very much like Western movies at times) perspective.

And what's this whine about North being dead? It's pretty much alive (at least when compared with southern cities other than NCR), it's just that it's much more brutal out there. If you don't like being shot in the face you should stick to protected towns, it's been said over and over again. If you complain about being shot at in general - well wasteland is harsh and no gang is going to allow trespassing during combat for obvious reasons, so the question of NPCs being there for that hour or two comes down to whether it's really necessary to annoy the living hell out of everyone involved in the fighting or not. If you ever had to deal with constantly respawning Metzger's group because of a single burst gone wrong you'd know.

Anyway, the biggest problem with the suggestions board and the community in general is the fact that people who don't participate in a given activity (especially when it comes to organised PvP and weapon balance) have a lot to say without having a clue how the hell does it really look and play like, so the ammount of bullshit is at times totally out of proportion and some stuff that gets implemented really bogs the game down. Most of the issues that turned the TC and PvP play from very enjoyable to laborous and boring like TC-windows and oh-so-abusable preview (not to mention parley) can easilly be linked with the misconceptions and incessant whining some of the NCR dwellers exhibit, so I think it's high time they shut the hell up and let the devs handle it in cooperation with people who actually do participate in gang-related stuff.

Let's face it Surf Solar - even if all the stuff you think is good for TC was implemented, you still wouldn't come cause you're not really interested in this part of 2238 experience. The chance that devs are going to remove TC in total is realistically speaking nill (remember how 2238 started out as a faction mod?), so why do you bother with people who thoroughly enjoy this part of the game? Wouldn't your energy be spent more productively if you invested your time discussing quests, trade and other NPC-related matters? 2238 is big enough for all of us and trying to mess with features you don't like and don't use doesn't help anyone. Just let the PvPers talk about PvP and enjoy their part of the cake and take good care of yours.