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Author Topic: Balance  (Read 3539 times)

Re: Balance
« Reply #30 on: December 10, 2011, 10:54:10 am »

If you really want to get into it and nit pick, the only reason I infiltrated you guys AT ALL was because that's exactly what one of your members had tried to do to us previously.

And zuhardu is 100% correct about the rest of it, though he didn't mention several other things...

Plus I find it odd that my posts have a way of disappearing around you Marko.  I know this one will probably disappear as well.

But YES, lets talk about BALANCE.  YOU, Marko told me in Mumble that you feel your faction SHOULD get special treatment from the GM's.  Why?  Because you're new, and not as strong as the more established groups...  which is why you had NO SHAME at all in asking for a med terminal to be put into your bunker base.  It's too bad Apox didn't get what he wanted, but the fact remains.

You think it's fair for some people to get special treatment, and others not to get special treatment.  You told me yourself.  It's not enough that everyone has the same opportunity. No no no.  When people like you talk about "balance", you want equal OUTCOMES. 

So next time you think it's unfair that a group like C88 is as strong as they are, and you're as weak as you are... stop and think about how long they've been around, how much effort and time they've put into their faction - that you haven't put in yourselves.  That's why it feels unbalanced to you.  You haven't put the work in.

The game is not unbalanced.  YOU ARE JUST BEHIND THE CURVE.  Get used to it.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2011, 01:21:03 pm by Wind_Drift »
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gr1m055

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Re: Balance
« Reply #31 on: December 10, 2011, 11:20:43 pm »

Well this post started out about some guy raging about his car but yes lets talk about balance.

I can see where wind drift is going and why he feels the way he does about being favored or special treatment. Many of us have gone through hell playing this game and getting to where we are today, we've gotten PKd, stuff stolen, trolled to death by theifs and bombers, and have to endured many hard things to get what we need. I mean really the idea of somebody getting a drug terminal in their base or getting special stuff added to their base pisses me off. I had to go to vault city and get sprayed by trolls and lost drug crafting materials. I have never asked the GMs for anything except once and that was skins for a group of players who are hardcore roleplayers. I have never asked a GM for anything for myself in my fonline career.  I have one character with a skin because the GM just gave it to me without me asking for it.

But this is an good issue of balance, I think either favor everybody or don't favor anybody at all. I do not like people getting "special treatment" over others.

I also generally do not like people who get banned, and others who don't for dual logging and fast log. Half the people I play with have been banned for this, and other factions don't.

But you know what its the wasteland its harsh and unfair. And I generally just laugh at people who wine about PKers or base rapers because many of us have gone through that. And its all about thinking of a smarter approach to avoid these things.

But you know I can respect Marko as he is a person who is running a noob helping faction and helps keeps the server population up, so there is more people to shoot at :D And I have talked to Marko and he is a good guy at heart nicer than most of the pricks who play this game. And if what winddrift says is true that section8 infiltrated the faction and didn't steal anything to teach you not to trust anybody that is generally what needs to be taught to players in this game. And this is the type of knowledge people need to know when playing this game.

But back to the topic of balance. You know this game is very unbalanced, and we all rage about something. My biggest compliant is big factions well squash small factions in any pvp but I have accepted the fact moved on and its the wasteland its harsh and unfair. Its an unbalanced game get used to it.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2011, 11:43:06 pm by gr1m055 »
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Re: Balance
« Reply #32 on: December 10, 2011, 11:44:11 pm »

Gn13 have a tree and drug terminal in their base. Enough said.
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Re: Balance
« Reply #33 on: December 11, 2011, 01:17:44 am »

Well this post started out about some guy raging about his car but yes lets talk about balance.

But back to the topic of balance. You know this game is very unbalanced, and we all rage about something. My biggest compliant is big factions well squash small factions in any pvp but I have accepted the fact moved on and its the wasteland its harsh and unfair. Its an unbalanced game get used to it.

The game is balanced just fine.

Your faction, my faction... even you and I as single players, have the same opportunities as any other in this game.  Really. 

Bigger factions squashing smaller factions is actually pretty damn fair when you really think about it.  It's not easy to maintain a large player base for a faction.  People come and go constantly, people squabble about petty stuff... but some factions manage to do it.

The fact of the matter is, just because we don't possess the same capability doesn't mean something unfair is stopping us.  I'm 100% positive that any large faction has worked hard to get where they are.  If my faction or your faction, or Marko's faction isn't in the same spot... well, it's our own faults.  The opportunity is there.

Again I stress, unequal outcomes does not mean unequal opportunities.  Same goes for balance.  We all use the same armors, weapons, drugs, cars, bases, (for the most part), etc.  In that respect all things are equal... except the players themselves.  Obviously a player or faction that's been around for a long time will have their shit together better than a new player/faction.

So essentially what I see when someone complains about the game being unbalanced is "It's not fair that this other player/faction is better than me/stronger than me.".

That's just the way it is though.  Somebody has to lose.

And nothing will change with wipe, either.  When everyone is reset to zero, all we have left is our experience.  Face it folks, some people will always be more capable.  But there's nothing the devs can do about that.

As far as infiltrating GN13/Outcasts, the main objective wasn't to teach them not to trust anyone.  I think most of us know that, at least those of us that have played longer than a week.  No, it was payback pure and simple.  No we didn't take any items, because it wasn't a base rape.  I can't speak for everyone I play with, but I can say with certainty that most of us detest base rapers.  It's happened to us several times, as it has most other people.  I know I tend to take it personal when someone tries to do it to us, though... as Marko and his guys can attest to.  Frankly, I'm not saying any more on the subject... except for this:

Upsetting perhaps when plans crash (and really weird when Section 9 infiltrates your gang, foils your first TC, then posts a video about it as if it was ever a fair fight lol and a bunch of meaniheads pile on) but you gotta stay cool man.

Come on man, the fight was about as fair as it could be.  The only info I had was "TC in Modoc".  We waited until the timer started (assuming you were all there and ready), and then we all entered from one side and fought you.  No dirty tricks once the battle started.  No dual logs, I wasn't even in your mumble at the time.

OH, and it was 9 vs. 9.  Even numbers.  You can reference the video and count for yourself.

Other than player skill/experience, where is the imbalance?  Hell, I've seen lesser numbers defeat a team twice their size easily.  What part of THAT is unfair?

Seriously, unless someone is getting special treatment, it's plenty fair. 
« Last Edit: December 11, 2011, 01:34:55 am by Wind_Drift »
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gr1m055

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Re: Balance
« Reply #34 on: December 11, 2011, 01:56:40 am »

Well like I said I have accept the fact that small group of players well not thrive in PvP unless they ally with other factions. There is a solution to everything. And you are right as far as gear goes we all use the same stuff and it is balanced in that aspect. But there are things that are unbalanced and that's just the way it is. There is no team balance in this game, I am not suggesting there should be I was just simply stating the fact.

I mean if your character sucks and can't kill other players as effective than the other team than your character build sucks, make another, and we all use same gear, have same capabilities as anybody else. The game is balanced in that aspect. I agree.

But the two biggest unbalances is GMs giving certain groups of players power armor over others, base items etc... and team balance. But this game was not designed to be a team balanced game like playing team fortress 2. Sure it makes me mad trying to do small pvp action and 50 players show up kill you in 2 seconds, but that is why we make alliance factions to take on bigger factions from my side of the spectrum. And you are right a person who is in and runs a big faction deserves for it to be big and it sucks for noobs and small factions who PvP.

It is an unbalanced game, but as far as using non-GM given items and player stats and skills it is balanced in that aspect.

This game isn't a friendly RPG game where your items are safe and can't be stolen, and isn't a game with PvP arenas is the only place you fight each other. This game well take you out of your comfort zone you are used to playing games like world of warcraft, diablo2 etc, where you get your items back when you die or when a player kills you.

But that is why I think many of us like this game because of the challenge its a pretty hardcore game and no other like it. I do not know of any mainstream games where you can steal peoples stuff, blow eachother up with dynamite and try to infiltrate other players bases to steal their stuff. Most games just seem to kiddy with the fact you have a nice safe storage container nobody can access and you can't steal peoples stuff out of their inventory or kill them while they are hunting or gathering materials. This game takes a lot of guts and balls to play and it well make you rage.

If anything it should be that the game is unfair, not unbalanced. But this game is survival the weak well perish and the strong well survive.

Quote
Come on man, the fight was about as fair as it could be.  The only info I had was "TC in Modoc".  We waited until the timer started (assuming you were all there and ready), and then we all entered from one side and fought you.  No dirty tricks once the battle started.  No dual logs, I wasn't even in your mumble at the time.

OH, and it was 9 vs. 9.  Even numbers.  You can reference the video and count for yourself.

Other than player skill/experience, where is the imbalance?  Hell, I've seen lesser numbers defeat a team twice their size easily.  What part of THAT is unfair?

Seriously, unless someone is getting special treatment, it's plenty fair.

That is what PvP is about, you don't just take a town and expect nobody to attack you and easy peasy you own a town. Factions like TTTLA/C88, sneaky raiders, BHH, fight daily to defend these towns and hold them because they put a lot of effort into defending them. And they don't quit after one loss they regear come back and fight again. If you do not like gear loss and losing to other players, I do not suggest PvP or town control. And people don't need to be in your mumble to know where you are, people use sneakers and I have seen you guys do TC and you guys suck at spotting sneakers. If you see a nice little friendly bluesuit you have to shoot him do not take the risk of him spying on your position. You have to be PK in town control anti-pk is a weakness in town control if you do not like shooting blue suits.

All of us PvP fanatics who hold towns we PvP everyday lose our gear and fight none stop. You can't give up after one loss. Marko I like you and your faction I am just saying this a pointer and not trying to troll or make fun of you. And wind drift has a very valid point point that people who have big factions have good gear, excell at PvP deserve what they have because they took time to experiment with the game mechanics and figure out what is a good strategy to kill other players.

I have tried to ask for alliance or offer to do PvP with you guys teach you the tricks of the trade and willing to give power builds but you guys decline because you do not like our play style as pkers.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2011, 02:13:17 am by gr1m055 »
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Re: Balance
« Reply #35 on: December 11, 2011, 02:02:29 am »

- snip -

Agree for the most part.

I guess I just look at the fairness aspect of certain game mechanics a little differently.  I just see a lot of thin skin everywhere (not saying you specifically, just in general), where anything someone doesn't like is "unfair".

There is much to be left to interpretation and opinion.  Obviously I have my own opinions, jacked up as they may be.
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Iguana Pete's sister

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