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[Kilgore]

Well, aside from the cooperation part, the big problem is that as soon as you will do something in favor of one players group, another one will shout that it's not fair and abuse and so on. So, again bitching received. But still I believe that some sort of cooperation between devs and players, in order to add/change some game content, basing on what's happening in the game, would improve overall gameplay, at least in long term.

Anyway, changing anything in the game demands time and work, so it wouldn't be easy. You'd make a simple thing like an update of the server and there would be another crowd shouting "omahgad wipe!!!!111" and few people posting threads "server is down", only to add some more work for you

[Surf]

Well, aside from the cooperation part, the big problem is that as soon as you will do something in favor of one players group, another one will shout that it's not fair and abuse and so on. So, again bitching received. But still I believe that some sort of cooperation between devs and players, in order to add/change some game content, basing on what's happening in the game, would improve overall gameplay, at least in long term.

Anyway, changing anything in the game demands time and work, so it wouldn't be easy. You'd make a simple thing like an update of the server and there would be another crowd shouting "omahgad wipe!!!!111" and few people posting threads "server is down", only to add some more work for you

Thank you. 
I said all this through the course of this thread but people seem to be illiterate or just skim posts, so reading the keypoints again through someone elses words who knows what he is doing can never hurt.

[Eternauta]

the big problem is that as soon as you will do something in favor of one players group, another one will shout that it's not fair and abuse and so on.

there would be another crowd shouting "omahgad wipe!!!!111" and few people posting threads "server is down"

Hahah, pure truth! We agree on that completely.

About this part:

still I believe that some sort of cooperation between devs and players, in order to add/change some game content, basing on what's happening in the game, would improve overall gameplay, at least in long term.

Now this doesn't sound bad to me, as it would be actually based on the in-game events and power struggles (the history that is written in every era) instead of how long certain gangs have been around. Like you said, if devs "give" something to a faction, others will whine, but things like statues or some other kind of monument (just to give an example) shouldn't hurt anybody as they don't give any real benefit.

[aForcefulThrust]

It doesn't matter if it is big gang x or gang y, it is just unfair that gang x can have a "reward" (for what?) for just staying a bit longer on here than gang that arrived 2 months later. Where to draw the line? You're  making yourself more important than you are. Sure it's cool that your gang has a long history on this server, but so what? This is not a reason to "reward" anything. It may be surprising for you, but even if you "leave" because of the lack of "rewards" for you, the world keeps on turning,  you know.

I agree, devs playing favorites with factions is a bad idea. Same bases/opportunities should be open for all factions. Faction X should not get special treatment/skins because they want to pretend(RP) to be unity or some other BS.

[RavenousRat]

I agree, devs playing favorites with factions is a bad idea.

Why? >_>
Because:

as soon as you will do something in favor of one players group, another one will shout that it's not fair and abuse and so on

?
Read 1st word of topic's name.

Reward

What a problem, it's easy to solve!
All famous gangs of 2238 server getting thier reward. Atleast a harmless graffiti.
Then some unkown for 2238 communty gang says:
"We want graffiti too, because we're cool! We did nothing, but we want graffiti, because... because we want graffiti and that's all!"
Are they famous? No. How to solve this problem? Call Surf, he'll explain everything to them with this sentence!

No

They start crying? "Mimimi. We want graffiti!"
Call Surf!

No

Problems?
Let them become famous, do some action on server, then may be community would know about that super-puper gang, and then they can make graffiti themselves, and then don't call Surf and let them have thier graffiti.
If someone will say it's unfair, it's thier problems.
And again, even now, with current version, without some engine tweaks you can make graffiti without changing maps or doing something with them, just use alternative, make graffiti art displaced on north-west or north-east from it's center, then spawn some object with this art infront of wall, and graffiti will cover that wall at north-west or north-east, without changing map itself if it's critter, and don't do any displacement if it's an item, because items can be placed into walls, the only problem is that it'll be invisible when it's out of your FoV.

[Kelin]

So gang A and B constantly fighting in one town for a long period of time will have to watch at graffiti of gang C, which doesn't play anymore... Seriously, I don't want to see Vault Silene Brahminy, Cajuns, The Dead Master's Crew and other inactive gang names all over the wasteland. It's one of the things I dislike about Requiem, just because some people try to be like Enclave (simply PK anyone anywhere) they deserve a special base and equipment?

About WWP and other similar projects, it's very hard to keep such project alive so maybe a little support from GM or devs would be appreciated. For example server messages is a good example of such help. Since these kind of projects are not PvP oriented (mostly), I don't see any problem with it.

[Lordus]

 A) Maps are not dynamic. Every change of the map needs to wipe server (or am i wrong?). So i.e. graffiti needs to be imported and implemented before wipe, or we would wait another year (or more).

 B) Because of A, if devs allow this, we need to put graffiti in game before next wipe. So we have to choose, who deserves, or who is able to put there own graffiti.

 I suggested gangs, not individuals, because it would reduce the number of requests. I suggested long existing gangs, with enough personal substrate, so the graffiti signs would not be memorials only. But dont be afraid, that there would exist graffiti of non existing gangs.. Nobody would paint them.. (another limitation).

 C) Why gangs should have get reward in (graffiti) any form from developers?

 C1) They are betatesting.

 C2) They are filling 2238 universe by missing content.. Small or big roleplay, even stupid play pn PK or ANTI PK is something that fills empty streets with something.

 C3) Long time existing gangs brings and acumulate new players. (More players = more fun).

 I.e. Vault Silene Brahminy gang is linked with czech very popular Fallout games site madbrahmin.cz. Most players dont know anything about Fonline, or even about 2238, but their first infromation was from this site. Only our gang (and in czech community there are a lot of another active gangs, like Hawks, or solitairs), has cca 130 applications since january 2010 (since new gang forum).

 And czech/slovakian community is only minority in Fonline. There are a lot of other gangs who do the same job (french, polish community). I hope you dont think seriously, that most faction players are recruted on the NCR bazaar or 2238 forum. How they would find that this mod exist? I am not telling that this is only our (gang) credit, of course not, but very significant part of it.

 C4) Gangs learn new players how to play this. Dont you realy think that players after fonline instalation know how to play, survive, enjoy this game? 90 percent of our aplicants write: "I want to join VSB, because i am dying too often in the wasteland, i hope i will enjoy some fun instead of pain in your faction".

 So we give them advices, basic stuff, teach them game mechanism and some gangs, likes ours, demand anti PK behaviour..

 C5) Ingame behaviour needs little feedback. There were too many battles in TC cities and no ingame (story) feedback? Dont forget, Fonline 2238 is not Fallout 1 or 2. There is not background story, in Fonline NCR, there was never Chosen One from F1 or F2. But Linnela, Surf, Nixon, Crazy,.. yes, they were there. They were diying in TC cites and there is ingame relation between their factions and the locations.

 We have jet graffiti in New Reno.. But there is not Myron creating jet..

 C6) Gangs would create graffiti by their own, so devs dont need to do many.. only check if the graffiti style is combatible with Fallout style and replace that part in the city.


 C7) I see this discusion pathetic. On other servers, they allow to create own ground base under city.. to support roleplay. We are here discussing about few stupid pixels on the wall. Hello!!!!!

 Dont ask why gangs deserves reward, but ask in what way they have to be rewarded!

 D) Better orientation in cities.. Teamate: "Where did you see enemy?" Me: "Near BBS graffiti" Temate "ok, i know.."

[Mayck]

A) Maps are not dynamic. Every change of the map needs to wipe server (or am i wrong?). So i.e. graffiti needs to be imported and implemented before wipe, or we would wait another year (or more).

Like Ravenous rat said, if the grafitty was made an unlootable item (unlike scenery items are dynamic) it wouldn't even need map regeneration, it could be simply added by a gamemaster (with uncertain ammount of scripting it could be even made interesting feature, gangs might actually redraw enemy's graffitys by themselves).

Not sure, if rewarding large factions is the way to go (though i am all for the graffitys : ), but it would be nice to see more GM/Devs<-->Factions/RPprojects cooperation.

[Jackall]

Would be nice to give a personal graffiti to the best tc gang of the town (more time controlled in the last season) for every town, so this would give another reason to fight for pvp apes (as Wichura love call them), the graffiti should be designed by the gang and approved (not offensive, merging with fallout background etc..)

As I already said should deserves a reward

gangs who really gave their countribute to the game in some way (Members active in forum, supporting of projects or involved in activities that can keep the game alive)

I don't see how massive TC (pure PVP) can be a special activity that keeps the game alive. Is a function that gives gangs chance to get caps and fun, but others players not interested in PVP what can get from this?

Taking a town is a ordinary thing in 2238, and can't "make the History".

[Wipe]

(...) A) Maps are not dynamic. Every change of the map needs to wipe server (...)

Negative, sir. Server need to load new map version to apply changes. "Maps are not dynamic" mostly means that you cannot change map tiles or add/delete scenery without server restart (I think everyone with access to proper commands tried at least once to spawn scenery item and drop it on map. But it's simply ignored by engine and given scenery vanish after you drop it - nothing changes).

Before someone working on SDK shows up with ~reloadlocations/~reloadmaps - most of ~reload* commands was, or still are bugged. And it will be hard to find GM that will risk locking public server just to test one command And during CBTs such things are always forgotten, as they are never needed...

Aaanyway, <TL;DR> new scenery graphic doesn't require a wipe, just an update </TL;DR> Even if commands above works, i really doubt that we will change current way of applying changes. New content still will be added only on server update - it's just easier for both, players and devs.

[OskaRus]

I don't see how massive TC (pure PVP) can be a special activity that keeps the game alive. Is a function that gives gangs chance to get caps and fun, but others players not interested in PVP what can get from this?

most of people playing fonline is interested in pvp and especially in the big one. When there were 60 on 60 battles people were very active now, when you barely meet pk or bluesuit in reno or mines not to mention any meaningfull TC game is dead and old players are leaving.

[Hololasima]

So gang A and B constantly fighting in one town for a long period of time will have to watch at graffiti of gang C, which doesn't play anymore... Seriously, I don't want to see Vault Silene Brahminy, Cajuns, The Dead Master's Crew and other inactive gang names all over the wasteland. It's one of the things I dislike about Requiem, just because some people try to be like Enclave (simply PK anyone anywhere) they deserve a special base and equipment?

About WWP and other similar projects, it's very hard to keep such project alive so maybe a little support from GM or devs would be appreciated. For example server messages is a good example of such help. Since these kind of projects are not PvP oriented (mostly), I don't see any problem with it.

But Hawks will be good hm? Seriously, i dont know why these gangs cant have something in towns(graffity). By the way, if there will be something in town, it means that this certain gangs isnt inactive. It was said that gang which somehow contributed for server will have something, not gang which was famous bilion years ago

[Wichura]

It was said that gang which somehow contributed for server will have something, not gang which was famous bilion years ago

That's our orphanage! However we cannot into Tree Control, as we don't give a shit about it and still can't organize swarm after a year, so we are completely unknown and anonymous. Keeping newcomers in game (instead of killing them for lulz) doesn't count, since they don't shout "we XYZ strong! we kill all with big magic!" on forum. Anyway, can we haz cool pix on teh wallz?

GM support for gangs (giving special skins, items, spawning objects) could do the trick, if Game Master function is separated from Military Police function. Now, if you want to organize something like Fight Club for couple fellas, you need to ask GM and pray for no requesthelps during your event. And of course you can't tell anyone, because every action GM performs is abuse, exploit and unfair supporting gang X.

[Hololasima]

That's our orphanage! However we cannot into Tree Control, as we don't give a shit about it and still can't organize swarm after a year, so we are completely unknown and anonymous. Keeping newcomers in game (instead of killing them for lulz) doesn't count, since they don't shout "we XYZ strong! we kill all with big magic!" on forum. Anyway, can we haz cool pix on teh wallz?

GM support for gangs (giving special skins, items, spawning objects) could do the trick, if Game Master function is separated from Military Police function. Now, if you want to organize something like Fight Club for couple fellas, you need to ask GM and pray for no requesthelps during your event. And of course you can't tell anyone, because every action GM performs is abuse, exploit and unfair supporting gang X.

Right now i dont know if your post is against mine or not

[Wichura]

Maybe because it's not against anyone?