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[wreese2u]

It`s after all just a game, and by that it is like real life some are assholes some are kind.

To be honest i dont get this whole debate. It`s for (it`s the way I see it) good verus evil.

the game needs a balance with evil and so called good, some laugh when killing a level 1, some help try to help that same level 1.

In order to  have at least in my eyes a game based on fallout you need both. I might be wrong, but i like it myself that some "act" as raiders.

It gives balance, at weird as it might sound i like it. Because it gives me as an "apk" something towards agaisnt.

It gives me as an "apk" something to do. And in the end it`s just a game, so have fun 

Sorry for the long rant^^

(Looking forward to much pvp next season from rda\bbs,Cs,Dow and so on)

me also, lets hope we get bigger

[LeonTheNorse]

Its not about getting bigger, i want all even smaller gangs to have fun, but enough of the off topic.

[Trokanis]

No the debate isn't soo much a "Good vs. Evil"  It's Mature vs childish.  The issue is the specific type of pkr who has the mentality of a kid with a magnifying glass standing over an ant farm at noon.  I have no problem with a person who pk's that limits themselves to people that can fight back, town controls, other pkr's.  When you get a group of Lulz seeking people who spend their time taking on the weakest targets they can find, that just ruins the game, at least for the people being jumped. 

Imagine if you will being stuffed into a locker at a fun park, and every SINGLE time you try to get out 3 people shove you back in.  Now imagine that that is ALL you have to look forward to when you go to that fun park.  I would be willing to bet that eventually you won't think that place is very fun and may even stop going.

PK as an idea isn't the problem, the PK'rs and what they do MAKE it the problem.  There is no consequences for abusing lowbies (and that's what it is BTW) there is only profit/lulz.  Well Yeehaa for the pk'rs you have a game, it's not fallout, and eventually it will become nothing but you and other pkr's and you will just be going through the motions. 

The problem many of you are having with this issue is, you're seeing it from the 'group' point of view.  Think about it from the view of a small group 4 or less.  The lone wolf who steps into this game only to spend MONTHS trying to craft and explore, because every move they make ends in them losing HOURS of work.  I know that not all of you Join a gang just after wipe.  But many do, and you wonder why you're bored later, it's because you reduce or remove much of the problems normal people, and people who don't want to pk have to deal with.  And things boil down to Join a pk gang, join an anti-pk gang (same thing really) or fear EVERYONE you ever meet.  If you want to play a game with only 2 choices, maybe you should play Tic-Tac-Toe.  The rest of us came here to play Fallout, in that wonderful universe, not play "Replication in --, Loading screen, Craft/mine/explore, Replication in --"  Well that was a fun 3 hours with nothing to show for it but some nice screen shots of "Lulz, Ha Ha, /puke in mouth"

[namenotfound]

No the debate isn't soo much a "Good vs. Evil"  It's Mature vs childish.  The issue is the specific type of pkr who has the mentality of a kid with a magnifying glass standing over an ant farm at noon.  I have no problem with a person who pk's that limits themselves to people that can fight back, town controls, other pkr's.  When you get a group of Lulz seeking people who spend their time taking on the weakest targets they can find, that just ruins the game, at least for the people being jumped. 

Imagine if you will being stuffed into a locker at a fun park, and every SINGLE time you try to get out 3 people shove you back in.  Now imagine that that is ALL you have to look forward to when you go to that fun park.  I would be willing to bet that eventually you won't think that place is very fun and may even stop going.

PK as an idea isn't the problem, the PK'rs and what they do MAKE it the problem.  There is no consequences for abusing lowbies (and that's what it is BTW) there is only profit/lulz.  Well Yeehaa for the pk'rs you have a game, it's not fallout, and eventually it will become nothing but you and other pkr's and you will just be going through the motions. 

The problem many of you are having with this issue is, you're seeing it from the 'group' point of view.  Think about it from the view of a small group 4 or less.  The lone wolf who steps into this game only to spend MONTHS trying to craft and explore, because every move they make ends in them losing HOURS of work.  I know that not all of you Join a gang just after wipe.  But many do, and you wonder why you're bored later, it's because you reduce or remove much of the problems normal people, and people who don't want to pk have to deal with.  And things boil down to Join a pk gang, join an anti-pk gang (same thing really) or fear EVERYONE you ever meet.  If you want to play a game with only 2 choices, maybe you should play Tic-Tac-Toe.  The rest of us came here to play Fallout, in that wonderful universe, not play "Replication in --, Loading screen, Craft/mine/explore, Replication in --"  Well that was a fun 3 hours with nothing to show for it but some nice screen shots of "Lulz, Ha Ha, /puke in mouth"

have you guys even play fallout 2 or 1  the wasteland is meant to be harsh for reason

[Eternauta]

have you guys even play fallout 2 or 1  the wasteland is meant to be harsh for reason

In other words, "tl;dr wasteland is harsh, lulz".

Have we not learnt that these topics are useless?

[namenotfound]

In other words, "tl;dr wasteland is harsh, lulz".

Have we not learnt that these topics are useless?

what are you talking about stop trolling realy have any 1 of you anty pker played fallout 2 or fallout 1

[Surf]

Yeah rune, the funny thing is, that FO1/2's harshness wasn't like that.

Please elaborate on an actual ingame example where people kill others for the lulz and without any repercussions. I'd be very interested.

[namenotfound]

Yeah rune, the funny thing is, that FO1/2's harshness wasn't like that.

Please elaborate on an actual ingame example where people kill others for the lulz and without any repercussions. I'd be very interested.

are you shour ther was Meany hi level npcs all most next to where you start  i know that there was little good in the wasteland  amounts of enclave and mobster not robber my bad and most every thing that wound kill you in fallout2
in fallout 1 it was a easy game yes but there where mostly eazy npcs thee only after you find the master do you get the hard stuff

any ways this off topic

[Keldorn]

The originals were actually setup by area.  The desert highway where the BOS is stationed and the area near Mariposa was a hub of Super Mutant activity.  Same with the area near the cathedral.  Otherwise, it was mostly critters such as rads, scorpions, geckos, etc.

BTW, there was NEVER grid camping in the originals.  There was very little one shot death going on as not only was the game TB but the game was far less combat oriented than Fonline.  Armor actually provided protection and NPCS wouldn't "shoot for eyes" immediately.  There were no "bluesuit teams", with cripple builds and BB guns.  Trust me, PK LULZORS are ten times more dangerous than your average baddie in the originals.

[Michaelh139]

No the debate isn't soo much a "Good vs. Evil"  It's Mature vs childish.  The issue is the specific type of pkr who has the mentality of a kid with a magnifying glass standing over an ant farm at noon.  I have no problem with a person who pk's that limits themselves to people that can fight back, town controls, other pkr's.  When you get a group of Lulz seeking people who spend their time taking on the weakest targets they can find, that just ruins the game, at least for the people being jumped. 

but these lowbies could be gang scouts!!  The paranoia...  it wins.

Imagine if you will being stuffed into a locker at a fun park, and every SINGLE time you try to get out 3 people shove you back in.  Now imagine that that is ALL you have to look forward to when you go to that fun park.  I would be willing to bet that eventually you won't think that place is very fun and may even stop going.

 That is the PERFECT example!  And it is sooooo freaking sweet when you finally break out and kick their asses/get some friends, no?

PK as an idea isn't the problem, the PK'rs and what they do MAKE it the problem.  There is no consequences for abusing lowbies (and that's what it is BTW) there is only profit/lulz.  Well Yeehaa for the pk'rs you have a game, it's not fallout, and eventually it will become nothing but you and other pkr's and you will just be going through the motions. 

I agree though, that there needs to be more consequences for people's actions...  I'm sure we'l see something next era though, surely?

The problem many of you are having with this issue is, you're seeing it from the 'group' point of view.  Think about it from the view of a small group 4 or less.  The lone wolf who steps into this game only to spend MONTHS trying to craft and explore, because every move they make ends in them losing HOURS of work.  I know that not all of you Join a gang just after wipe.  But many do, and you wonder why you're bored later, it's because you reduce or remove much of the problems normal people, and people who don't want to pk have to deal with.  And things boil down to Join a pk gang, join an anti-pk gang (same thing really) or fear EVERYONE you ever meet.  If you want to play a game with only 2 choices, maybe you should play Tic-Tac-Toe.  The rest of us came here to play Fallout, in that wonderful universe, not play "Replication in --, Loading screen, Craft/mine/explore, Replication in --"  Well that was a fun 3 hours with nothing to show for it but some nice screen shots of "Lulz, Ha Ha, /puke in mouth"

 But repeating these same problems every wipe is equally boring...  It's the same damn thing every time.

[Radman2307]

Figure I better put my two peneth worth in,

I just started playing again after a LONG gap (and even then I only played for a few hours) first of all let me say that Fallout Online is an amazing piece of work, well done to the Devs for making it possible.

Secondly PK'ing low level chars is KILLING FOnline, no two ways around it... Its KILLING the game (dont believe me? Read EVERY review of FOnline - more recently the NMA Review is very balanced take on the FO experience.)

why?

I started the game. eager and keen, i'd read the forums and the wiki inside out so I knew what initial quests to do and I also knew that I needed to get those 10 Brahmin hides... FAST... I did the initial quests and got myself some basic equipment, I spent a few hours scavaging and foraging around the NCR area and then made my way down south in order to locate some more Brahmins. From reading the guide I KNEW that in order to succeed I needed to avoid people, other players ect... However as soon as I joined the game there was a RABBLE of activity within the NCR, I was approached numerous times by obvious con artists, chased by thieves and other wise harrassed, but I stuck to my rule, avoid people...

Eventually I obtained a gun and went out to find those pesky Brahmins, I found a good sized herd and took down four, thats four Brahmin skins, the next encounter there was only one Brahmin on the map, no matter I took him out and was searching his corpse when all of a sudden my charactder was riddled with bullets, I collapsed to the floor in a pool of blood. My initial thought was a bug but no, some guy comes over and took my five hides...

Back to square one again...

No money, No Equipment...

Not one to give up I tried again and eventually built up my supplies, so off I went (again.)

I eventually collected my 10 Brahmin Hides but I certainly think more needs to be done to help new players, would it be difficult to implement a quest where a player recieves three or four hides on completion (Help the Brahmin Herder obtain some water or something?)

I also think there needs to be a cool down on the steal skill (I dont know if there already is but its abused crazily so in the starter towns.)

Just a few of my impressions, still loving the game though now that i've FINALLY got my tent  

[Ganado]

I also think there needs to be a cool down on the steal skill (I dont know if there already is but its abused crazily so in the starter towns.)

There is, (30 seconds) but most thieves will just try to troll you by constantly using Science or another skill on you that doesn't do anything when their cooldown is active. But it has the same animation, so then the player keeps having to stay away, since you never know when they are actually using Steal... Very annoying, I agree.

[Duane]

have you guys even play fallout 2 or 1  the wasteland is meant to be harsh for reason

That doesn't mean "Be a huge asshole to everyone you meet. You're supposed to, it's the wasteland."

In a just world, over time, you'd wind up setting civilization back thousands of years all over again.

You shouldn't be able to PK anyone under level three without them provoking you, or something crazily abhorrent like "You can't be PVP'd up until the point you attack another player." so non-PK players can actually PLAY.

[Badger]

You shouldn't be able to PK anyone under level three without them provoking you, or something crazily abhorrent like "You can't be PVP'd up until the point you attack another player." so non-PK players can actually PLAY.

If TC was moved to areas like the Stables/Ghost Farm/Theme Park/Vault 15/Toxic Caves/WHEREVER and all towns were made guarded I think you'd solve a lot of the PvP complaints.

1. More towns are populated/Players are more evenly spread across the world.
2. More quests are attempted/completed.
3. People would be more responsible for their own deaths, as dangerous areas are more clearly defined. Towns = Safe. Not towns = Dangerous.
4. People could PvP on maps actually designed for it (eventually)
5. Unsuspecting idiots are no longer shot because THEY COULD BE A BLUESUIT SPY.

[Keldorn]

Decided to add more to the "circular argument".

Look at what happened with Ultima Online.  It started with UPVP and the playerbase TANKED.  It got so bad that the developers had to change it otherwise risk folding.  Think of it as "common sense".  Every other MMO out there has realized that UPVP simply DOESN'T WORK.  Hence there is always a balance between UPVP and RPVP (either server based, consensual, zone based, etc).

Just face it, a game that caters to chuckleheads is going to stagnate.  Chuckleheads themselves are inherently bored easily (thus explaining their idiotic and irratic/impulsive behaviors).  Once the chuckleheads have chased all the normal folks from the game, they again will be bored and themselves quit, leaving the server a desolate windswept ghostown.

1.  Quests need to be town specific and level oriented.  You don't offer a level one noob a quest where he can be swarmed by ankle biters or a railline gang.  You don't give a player a quest in the southern part of the map and have him travel to different towns looking for some strange killer.  Its defenitely crappy quest design to force someone to go to a murderous PK infested town just to deliver the package to another murderous pk infested town (oh btw if you "lose" the package you are perma fucked).

2.  Trains in order to be efficient need to stop relying on world time.  Is there even a ratio of real life time to in game time so folks can actually attempt to "time" a train?  Lets not even go into the whole different time zones deal.  If fixed, noobs will have the ability to safely arrive in towns so they can do quests and handle their business without running into the same chuckleheads as often as 4 or 5 times on the SAME DAMNED SQUARE.

3.  Levelling need not ALWAYS/PRIMARILY combat based.  This way it encourages different playtyles and non-combat characters need not be forced into the wasteland.  Civilisation IS returning and plenty of merchants are getting rich without directly involving themselves in fighting.