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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => General Game Discussion => Topic started by: Eralo on January 14, 2010, 07:11:20 am
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Does that code has something to do with fonline:2238 ?
http://opensvn.csie.org/viewcvs.cgi/?root=fonline&rev=112#dirlist
I know it's old, but the architecture is similar.
Now a far more interesting question ;D. Is the code of Fonline:2238 open?
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Good post, interesting read :)
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Look at the date 2-3 years. Back then the fonline was very different :).
Also, no. As soon as cvet finishes his development he is going to release his code. Because 2238 is based on his work, I don't think that it will be released earlier.
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It's funny. Every few weeks someone shows up and says he might found the source code. :p
2238 is not open, btw.
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I didn't claim that the source had to be liberated. I was just curious if it was, i know that cvet/baster retains the copyright and can do whatever they want with the source.
And anyway, if this is asked every week why isn't the licence stated somewhere, at least in a FAQ(if there is one).
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Because there's no need in it now.
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Also, no. As soon as cvet finishes his development he is going to release his code.
I think it should be stated the engine source codes will not be opened. It's just content files: scripts/dialogs/maps/graphics that will be available to others to be modified. That's why Cvet is working hard to have it very flexible, much more flexible than needed to host fallout game.
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I think it should be stated the engine source codes will not be opened. It's just content files: scripts/dialogs/maps/graphics that will be available to others to be modified. That's why Cvet is working hard to have it very flexible, much more flexible than needed to host fallout game.
Would that even be possible? AFIK most of the "original" content is derivative work, so you would need a explicit permission of the copyright holders to relicence it. You can't claim copyright of all the work in something you just tweaked a little. I mean that whole project is in a thigh rope legally speaking (ofc IANAL).
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The FOnline engine is 100% written from scratch. You can create every possible game with it and even sell it after. Of course, things like the SPECIAL-system can't be made commercial that easy... it needs to be either replaced with something else or you have to talk to Bethesda.
The only legal "fear" that FOnline has is regarding the used content from the Fallout games.
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The FOnline engine is 100% written from scratch. You can create every possible game with it and even sell it after.
Yeah, i know. I wasn't talking about the engine in mi previous post. Alas that was the origin of that thread. Is there any reason for not releasing it as open source? You guys have the copyright of the client and the server, you simply can do whatever you want. Please look at the source release of quake[1/2/3] for a successful example, i know it's not the same case but what would be.
Of course, things like the SPECIAL-system can't be made commercial that easy... it needs to be either replaced with something else or you have to talk to Bethesda.
Only SPECIAL? what about the 99% of the maps and the 99% of the art and sounds. How much original content is there? everywhere i look in your data files i only found modified copyrighted material.
The only legal "fear" that FOnline has is regarding the used content from the Fallout games.
Like it is a "small" fear...
Please, i don't want this project to fail, i just want it to survive. Look at what happened to FreeCraft with Blizzard, and they used only the data of Warcraft2 there wasn't even derivative work, but the CnD letter arrived eventually.
Seriously the real world sometimes is harsher than your wasteland.
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Only SPECIAL? what about the 99% of the maps and the 99% of the art and sounds. How much original content is there? everywhere i look in your data files i only found modified copyrighted material.
I was talking about new games with new content. It is obvious that you can't use Fallout material (maps, graphics, etc) and release it as a new game + sell it.
Like it is a "small" fear...
The same fear that every Fallout mod has as well. I want to remember that in the licence agreements from Fallout 1 and 2 is stated that it's not allowed to modify or reverse anything of the game. Still, this rule has been broken over and over since many years now by various people. FOnline exists since at least 4 years now too.
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Only SPECIAL? what about the 99% of the maps and the 99% of the art and sounds. How much original content is there? everywhere i look in your data files i only found modified copyrighted material.
I was talking about new games with new content. It is obvious that you can't use Fallout material (maps, graphics, etc) and release it as a new game + sell it.
Well in that part i was talking about the content of FOnline:2238 factoring out the content taken during runtime from master.dat and critter.dat of Fallout2. Your content is basically derivative work from Fallout2 Fallout1 etc. You simply can't relicence that, you don't hold the copyright.
The same fear that every Fallout mod has as well. I want to remember that in the licence agreements from Fallout 1 and 2 is stated that it's not allowed to modify or reverse anything of the game. Still, this rule has been broken over and over since many years now by various people. FOnline exists since at least 4 years now too.
I wasn't aware of that, nice to know! :). But these modding clauses usually have other part that limits where can be used the mods, and that normally means that the mod had to be used within the original game engine (For example all quakes again, and Fallout3 GECK). I don't have a boxed copy of Fallout2, where can i read his modding licence?
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As soon as cvet finishes his development he is going to release his code.
That's wrong. I asked (http://www.fonline.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=16600) fonline never will be open source.
i know that cvet/baster retains the copyright and can do whatever they want with the source
That's the question, to be able to relicense open product or it's derivative work you need to obtain full copyright or permission from full copyright owner.
I'm not shure that Cvet do have full right to Fonline sorce code and media.
As far as I know Fonline project was started by Olegmmm, Kosh and others in 2004, and Cvet joined this team in 2006. So it's not clear do Cvet owns full rights to Fonline or not.
In short, if you don't owns full copyrights to open project, you can't close it, or any derivative work from it.
And if you do so - it's illegal.
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axyd: What do you mean? Does it mean Olegmmm or Kosh could now come and legally claim their rights of the code (possibly with intent to open source it)?
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The original FOnline developers are long gone now, and Cvet has full access to everything in this project. They can't come and say "It's illegal", for the simple reason that, as stated above, FOnline itself is quite illegal.
Maybe FOnline will never be open-source, I don't know exactly the vocabulary for that. However, cvet said many times that Server Development Kit (SDK) will be released. They will virtually allow anyone to host its own game based on FOnline engine.(Afaik SDK will contain some version of TLA.)
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FOnline itself is quite illegal.
This is partially true. FOnline consist of game engine and content.
Content is illegal because it uses Interplay copyrighted storyline and images. But game engine itself has no problem with Interplay.
As soon as you change storyline a little and use similar but custom made images for content it will be absolutely legal.
Maybe FOnline will never be open-source, I don't know exactly the vocabulary for that. However, cvet said many times that Server Development Kit (SDK) will be released. They will virtually allow anyone to host its own game based on FOnline engine.(Afaik SDK will contain some version of TLA.)
There are some problems here:
1. The only guarantee you have is "cvet said".
He can easily introduce limitation for public available SDK and suggest you to pay for it's more advanced closed version.
SDK may miss some features that you need and there's no way for you to add it.
2. It slows development. There's no clear vision, roadmap and guarantees for project future. The only thing you have is "cvet said".
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Which is, in FOnline community, the highest guarantee you can have ;p
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SDK will be just copy of all files (content) from TLA, when you download it you can just launch it as TLA copy server ;)
and btw I'm w8ing for someone who make FOnline mod: Fallout 2 coop and Fallout coop ^^
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SDK will be just copy of all files (content) from TLA, when you download it you can just launch it as TLA copy server ;)
and btw I'm w8ing for someone who make FOnline mod: Fallout 2 coop and Fallout coop ^^
And will one be able to modify this TLA clone server? (crafting, stats, weapons...)
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Yes, I think (It's obvious ;p). The catch is, that it's a clone of TLA, and TLA is far from having all the small but necessary features we have in 2238 :p
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Yes, I think (It's obvious ;p). The catch is, that it's a clone of TLA, and TLA is far from having all the small but necessary features we have in 2238 :p
Yea, i'll really miss them. :P I guess i have to learn some AngelScript.
But it would be a shame, if it would just host a single PvP game in a small location.
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I do have all the English dialogue files I pieced together from Fallout 2's dialogue Way Back When. If the SDK does get released, I'm sure somebody could make use of them.
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And will one be able to modify this TLA clone server? (crafting, stats, weapons...)
Yes, you will even be able to recreate 2238 in with the released files, in theory. I say in theory, because it's been more than a year of constant work from our team on various aspects. Just having an engine doesn't make a game, although Cvet has worked hard to make the it very easy to change things such as level cap, AP costs of various actions, modifying item prototypes like weapon stats (not trivial, but easy).
If you want to make something more advanced, such as a faction system, you'll have to get your hands dirty with AngelScript. 2238 started as simply this - a faction mod for pre-TLA (it was before it was even called TLA).
Like said earlier, the engine doesn't make the game, but it facilitates easier development if crafted for the game necessary. If you want to make a totally different game, which has nothing to do with Fallout, it will be possible, but harder, as you likely need to change most or all bits of code.
Regarding other questions related to the future of the engine (and client) development, you'll have to ask Cvet directly on fonline.ru
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I do have all the English dialogue files I pieced together from Fallout 2's dialogue Way Back When. If the SDK does get released, I'm sure somebody could make use of them.
Would be glad to use them in my soon to be made fonline(co-op, roleplaying orientated) :)
I wish SDK would be released allready... So much to do...
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Ok so if TLA source files (SDK) will be released... will that also happen with Fonline:2238?
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Ok so if TLA source files (SDK) will be released... will that also happen with Fonline:2238?
It would be awesome but I haven't great hope about that.
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Ok so if TLA source files (SDK) will be released... will that also happen with Fonline:2238?
2238 is not open, btw.
The answer is: No
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It would be nice to host a RP (though not HARD totalitarian RP) server...once where new players might actually be able to start up without being mowed down by 'lipps72 or ballsonmychin87' for his sledgehammer or 6 caps! No server project can be free of assholery...but the druggies and the in PLAIN sight exploit theives(that SOMEHOW carry off here can be over the top! At least the bombers are gone...though somehow NCR jsut isnt as funny as it was before!
As an aside, down the road if anyone was willingly to help script such a place with 'realistic assholery freezones' or if the devs aren willingly to create such a place, I will pay a resonable chunk of server costs for a year to trial it...and no I am not talking out of my ass...and well I am a fallout junky..that hasn't left after all of the clearly rediculous stuff done to folks here....beyond 'the Wastes are harsh..etc..'.
PS: I know that excellent players and also RP can be found here...even some of the PK's do an excellent job of interacting with players..even while 'raping & pillaging'..:P