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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Wichura on August 29, 2010, 07:07:12 pm
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There are some players with this in signature:
(http://www.abload.de/img/roadwarrior_lgu1r.jpg)
and my suggestion is mostly for them.
Estate Agent
NPC called Mr XY stays somewhere in Hub/SF/VC.
[XY]Hello stranger, what can humble agent do for you?
[player]An agent?
or
[player]Nothing, goodbye.
[XY]Well, e-sta-te agent, to be precise. I can offer you a cosy and nice estate nearby, really good price.
[player]Where is the catch?
or
[player]Are you nuts? There are only ruins around, you freak. Get lost.
[XY]Who says there is any catch? Let me tell you about beatiful sight, peaceful surrounding, quiet and nice neighbours, comfortable interiors designed by ...
[player]Yeah yeah, I know. Now cut this crap and tell me about the catch.
[XY]I wouldn't call it "catch" actually. It's more like a little inconvenience. There are some unwanted ... inhabitants and I can't get rid off them myself. But someone like you ...
[player]OK, show me where it is and I'll do the rest.
(level check, if less than f.e. 15)
[XY]I don't think you can handle this task. Goodbye.
(if more than 15)
[XY]You need to go here.
A small dot appears max two squares from Hub/SF/VC, inside there is:
- Hub
(http://a.imageshack.us/img816/8240/farma.jpg)
- SF
(http://a.imageshack.us/img826/5848/81036225.jpg)
-VC
(don't have nice enough image for VC, sorry)
Few critters live there, for Hub it could be raiders, for SF mercenaries, for VC ghouls ("disgusting creatures" in VC dialogue), weak enough to kill them in RT but not so weak to make this a bit challenging.
Now after cleaning whole location player goes back to "agent":
[XY]Welcome again my friend. How's going business of yours?
[player]I cleaned this ... estate for you. Now about my reward ...
or
[player]Didn't have time to take care of it, sorry.
or
[player]This task is stupid, go do it for your own, scrounger.
[XY]For such brave man like you I have special offer, it's only 10 000 caps. Interested?
[player]It's kinda cheap, here.
or
[player]I don't need your sordid estate.
Depending on player's choice, reward for this quest is an estate for 10 000 caps, marked on his map or 1000 xp if he refuses (Fallout series are about choices all the time, remember?).
- no terminal, workbench or resources there - there are bases for this
- no adding/removing friends - there are bases for this
- only one estate available per character - you can't have more than one, so choose wisely
- non repeatable quest
- no CH check - you need to kill, not convince peacefully to leave
And?
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All I have to say here that this would be just some candy for us questers. Wouldn't really be very high on to-do list because it wouldn't change the gameflow anywhere.
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Sounds good, but give the player a possibility later anyway, it's not a singleplayer game.
...but there is a catch, he is going to ask double the price so 20k.
Besides all that, great idea. A workbench would be nice, but not required. atleast a brahmin or 2? Or perhaps some fruit?
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I'd say, excellent suggestion.
Very atmospheric place to store your loot and logoff - that's always what i dreamt of in my lonely tent with louse-ridden mattresses in the middle of the desert.
Don't even need extras, just a locker with some tables or shelves.
And nice ambient music, like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CsLYRViuEc
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All I have to say here that this would be just some candy for us questers. Wouldn't really be very high on to-do list because it wouldn't change the gameflow anywhere.
It supposes to be just a "candy", no more no less. I mean you can store your stuff at tent, as it is now, but when you want something more, to satisfy your vanity or just because, why not have a real home?
Sounds good, but give the player a possibility later anyway, it's not a singleplayer game.
...but there is a catch, he is going to ask double the price so 20k.
Besides all that, great idea. A workbench would be nice, but not required. atleast a brahmin or 2? Or perhaps some fruit?
No, no resources, workbenches or anything that makes buying a base senseless. Price 10k sounds fine to me.
I'd say, excellent suggestion.
Thank you.
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Great idea and i most like you dialog.
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Needs a garden, otherwise it's awesome.
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love it
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I will look from the bigger overview:
1) current base/tent system is obsolete, everybody knows
2) one reason, why devs dont want to introduce visible bases is big number of existing bases -> this is also problem for database
3) the same like tents, because you cannot invite there anybody after creation, you need to build new tents again...
--> i like the idea of this places, but only in one big base rework
it could be one tier 1 base (tier 0 is tent), but with possibility of adding new members, because there is not any difference between tent and this house (tent is better, you can get there friends during creating) and only reason is to add quest for few Loners RP players.
I dont tell that it is bad, but house should be better than basic tent in new base system.
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1) current base/tent system is obsolete, everybody knows
So far the system is good in aspect of security. In aspect of PvP at base? Maybe.
But i'd like to know what exactly you call obsolete.
2) one reason, why devs dont want to introduce visible bases is big number of existing bases -> this is also problem for database
I suppose, many bases share the same location. I also encountered a bug, if one tent location is overlapping with another, it will disappear in the next rollback, but it seems to be not a problem to the database, otherwise we'll have no private mines, which everyone can buy (for whatever reasons)
3) the same like tents, because you cannot invite there anybody after creation, you need to build new tents again...
Agreed, it's quite a issue, mainly because of all the stored stuff. Why can't it be possible to invite someone via radio? It's VERY risky, but nevertheless, it would prevent people building tents in vicinity of cities. And perhaps more base PvP.
My 2 cents.
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So far the system is good in aspect of security. In aspect of PvP at base? Maybe.
But i'd like to know what exactly you call obsolete.
You can buy first cheap base and you dont need to buy another because of more lockers, workbench,.. .
If you want to buy new base for better location, newbies, some resources.. you have to leave your previous name..
You cant connect new resource bases with your previous one.. The first one base is oftem full of stuff you cant transport (or in one week), so you always stay in your first "home" base, even if you have money for better bases.
The most expensive base is also most usefull.. you need to go long for crafting, exiting...
I suppose, many bases share the same location. I also encountered a bug, if one tent location is overlapping with another, it will disappear in the next rollback, but it seems to be not a problem to the database, otherwise we'll have no private mines, which everyone can buy (for whatever reasons)
I think if there are 200 unused bases and many tents, it is not helpfull for any database.
[/quote]
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If you want to buy new base for better location, newbies, some resources.. you have to leave your previous name..
You cant connect new resource bases with your previous one.. The first one base is oftem full of stuff you cant transport (or in one week), so you always stay in your first "home" base, even if you have money for better bases.
Well, as far i know, a base is assigned to one name.
As for transport to another base, i see there no problem, if you have a tent and a brahmin. You can move the stuff there first and then buy a new base, deleting hereby the old one.
Sure, if you wanna buy another base, it would be technically seen, another gang name. But okay then.
I think if there are 200 unused bases and many tents, it is not helpfull for any database.
Maybe. We're out of bases for now because of that.
But location limits are still applicable, you can't spawn intact houses out of nowhere - so there must be a limit for houses amount.
If the trader already sold all houses, you should be able to buy this house from another player.
How should it be done without faction terminal? Let's say, with a posession of a certain item, a certificate of ownership.
You used it on your char, you get the revisitable location. You give it to another player, he uses it - your rights are rewoked.
How does it sound?
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Can someone explain why the hell you talk about bases, if this suggestion is about totally something else?
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There's probably a location limit on the server, which could be problematic for the maximal amount of house locations and that includes bases as locations.
And we're out of them - because too much locations would overload the database on server.
My latest suggestion was about using this limit as a part of the gameplay.
That's the hell we're talking about, Wipe.
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Can someone explain why the hell you talk about bases, if this suggestion is about totally something else?
Suggestion is about 1) quest, 2) role play, 3) base (does not matter how you name it (tent, cave, ... = "base", location for stuff,craft).
So we are talking about 1/3 of the suggestion. No, we were talking about whole, because i wrote, that i like that idea, but new "base" should have a position in new base system.
Base system is totaly without challenges. Of course, you can buy better base with more resources, but you cant move there: big gangs have a lot of stuff and moving is almost impossible (how can you order 10+ players to move all stuff, if maybe only 1/2 is connected at all time). It will take maybe 2 weeks and because of this it is nonsense.
Point 3)
I would like to see possibility of tents sharing (only owner of the tent could create map, if somebody else use it, it will consume it and he will see location).
Tier 1 base should be without possibility of crafting, but with some crates and better possibility to share your location, registering of gang name too.
Tier 2 base should be visible base as i suggested,..
Tier 3 base should be same base as tier 2, but with upgrades,... so you will have to leave your "base shelter" and protect it, or craft lvl 3 stuff with possibility of attack from anybody.
So in this system, i can not see the benefit of base, that will not be better than tent and it will be more expensive. I mean benefit for possesor of that base. So if it could be tier 1 base, so you would be able to take name of gang (but there have to be possibility to transport that name to tier 2 (3) base, it could be cell in chain of challenges base element.
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As i recall, brahmins can lift 14949 pounds of weight, like roughly claculated, 149 men. (100pounds each), so moving shouldn't be a big issue.
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A bit of fresh air.
I've made this recently:
(http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/6387/estatehub.jpg)
(http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/4499/estatehubroof.jpg)
(http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/858/estatehubbigview.jpg)
Map file is here (http://www.sendspace.com/file/t29p7r), changes allowed to make.
It's called "Hub Estate", however fits more to Junktown when I'm looking at it now.
SF and VC Estates will appear here ... erm ... "soon".
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I like the idea, as I'd like more containers to organize my shit in, rather than a crate. But the Dialogue seems eh to me, too pre-war... I wouldn't want to call it estates, but rather have some rugged explorer or something in a bar introduce the idea to you...
But what doesn't make sense is paying after clearing it out, you just killed everybody in there and that guy suddenly makes you pay for a house he technically doesn't own... I mean it makes sense as a game mechanic, but in reality, I'd just laugh at the guy, gun the folks down, and take the hut, if they come to try and make me pay, I'd gun the guy down too. Now it would make sense to buy this information before gunning down the inhabitants, as the information itself is valuable.
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I vote for workbench... why not? Why should only gangs have those? Not everyone is team-player and this will give better chance to loners...
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It looks a bit dull to be honest. :/ And why is there hay in the middle of a building?
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I vote for workbench... why not? Why should only gangs have those? Not everyone is team-player and this will give better chance to loners...
There is no point for that - all mentioned cities are guarded and have a workbench already. Remember that workbench is one of just few reasons why players visit any city.
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We visit cities to take stuff from vendors, do quests and yell at each other about whose relative is a woman of "dubious affections" while protected from reprecutions from the ever friendly guards!
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Why do you force people to enter cities? What's the point if they only need workbench at the time?
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Why do you force people to enter cities? What's the point if they only need workbench at the time?
Yeah, what a great MMORPG when everyone sits in their cave and only "interacts" with other people by shooting 'em.
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Yeah, what a great MMORPG when everyone sits in their cave and only "interacts" with other people by shooting 'em.
Ever been to NCR? There are lots of people at the entrance chatting, doing things etc. What you imply is that cities would be only for workbenches. Yeah what a great MMO when everyone runs to craft something then goes back to exit grid, wasting time.
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Ever been to NCR? (...)
Ever been in other city? Eh, adding workbench to tent-like locations is out of discussion for now; maybe in future, when cities will be actually alive (cities, not NCR only). Making Hub something more than ghost city took months, so don't hold your breath.
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With the lower map speed I'm actually seeing a decent amount of people going to the den to craft...now all we need is for those pesky militia to be removed and the north cities might have decent population in them. I'm a loner and crafting from a city is more exciting with the risk of death.
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yes! crafting under danger is amazing!
I cant wait to risk materials worth a couple of hours and a few thousand caps for the thrill of danger!
On second thought if you like danger why dont you go carrying all your caps in a blue suit while yelling "I have 10k caps on me and no guns or armor. Catch me if you can"? would that not be exciting enough?
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On second thought if you like danger why dont you go carrying all your caps in a blue suit while yelling "I have 10k caps on me and no guns or armor. Catch me if you can"? would that not be exciting enough?
You are a dirty poor, less than 50 k caps give us no emotion, I bet soon the northern city will become overpopulated ;)
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Northern villages should be more interesting. And by interesting i dont mean entering mining HQ stuff and getting the hell outta there before you get shot by some dude.
And i surely dont mean TC too, because TC is either beerparty at a KOTH-building or on worldmap.
Before 2 wipes modoc was full of friendly people chatting, crafting, role-playing, trading every day. sure there were some guys coming in and shooting everyone, but we often defended ourselves successfully against these raiders. This was a real nice time. Now modoc is a PC-ghosttown. All you see is someone doin a quest quick, get armorer prof or a gang who wants the TC.
I for myself started my first char ever at modoc and met a friendly guy who helped me learning the basics of survival in wasteland. not possible these days in northern towns.
So dont talk about oh a workbench in a tent makes our towns empty (im against this too, but because of difficulty-level of the game). They are empty already. Deal with it.
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So here they are! All three estates ready to use (I hope).
It's like Lego bricks, but without mess on the floor.
Hub Estate
Made from scratch. Thanks to Wipe for finding errors.
(http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/8554/estatehub1.jpg)
(http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/8388/estatehub2.jpg)
(http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/1156/estatehub3.jpg)
Map file (http://www.sendspace.com/file/983fcx)
San Francisco Estate
Redone map from random encounter, called e_city5.
(http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/7408/estatesf1.jpg)
(http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/5618/estatesf2.jpg)
(http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/8757/estatesf3.jpg)
Map file (http://www.sendspace.com/file/k0ddat)
Vault City Estate
Redone map from special encounter, called se_kotw_ground.
(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/1681/estatevc1.jpg)
(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/3207/estatevc2.jpg)
(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/7642/estatevc3.jpg)
Map file (http://www.sendspace.com/file/td7yp5)
And?
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:o Wow those maps are great Wichura, i loved the Hub estate. Thumbs up to you.
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Yep they are really nice and suit the enviroment as much as possible. However keep in mind that these estates would at this moment be used solely on item stashing. So every estate should have at least one pure warehouse with many shelves close each other where players can keep their stuff shelved in orderly way.
Other thing are the doors. If there was a room with door and shelves, I'd just drop my stuff outside it for being too lazy to open the door every time. I'd kill myself if there was a need to open 3 doors to get somewhere in my own house. Opening doors in fallout isn't particularly smooth. Also cabinets with doors are stupid due to the fact you have to close and open them all the time.
For exmaple If someone bought this hub estate, he might just drop all his stuff outside it and never even go inside. This is the sad state of the game.
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Yeah these maps look really great, but correct me if I'm wrong, these are for a single player only eh?
So i know much guys would appreciate such wonderfull maps as their homes but for some they are just too big and complex.
Like avv said stuff would be planted on ground because of lazyness of running and running and opening and opening and running and opening - you get it.
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Adding containers and removing doors won't be a problem, it's just few clicks here and there. Opening/closing cycle is annoying for sure, but design was more important to me. Small map with 20 bookshelves placed in square hut is useful, but looks like made by 3-year-old retarded baboon.
I hope my maps don't look like this :>
Anyway if these maps have chances to get into the game as intended (private locations to satisfy players' vanity and greediness), I can try to smuggle moar containers on them.
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Yeah these maps look really great, but correct me if I'm wrong, these are for a single player only eh?
So i know much guys would appreciate such wonderfull maps as their homes but for some they are just too big and complex.
Like avv said stuff would be planted on ground because of lazyness of running and running and opening and opening and running and opening - you get it.
If those players are even too lazy for simple shit like this then it's their problem, not Wichuras.
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If those players are even too lazy for simple shit like this then it's their problem, not Wichuras.
Its not like i say he should change it because of that. I would love to have such an estate as a loner because i always wanna house up nicely in games (I spend minimum 2 hour in games like Arx Fatalis or Oblivion to steal furniture from all places to get it into my house/room/whatever and place items in a nice way to get it a comfortable feeling.
My comment was said from a critic point of view. I dont want anyone saying he doesn't see any sense in adding a more beautiful tent into the game, but at the moment i dont see any sense, only sense is if you could keep 1 estate and 1 tent so tent is mobile storage and estate is "singleplayer base". Remember it would put pressure on the database if everyone has a estate that is stuffed with items (was already mentioned with the more-bases thing). Don't know if that will be done for the cost of a more visual comfortable map.
Sadly "Such a big map for just one player to store items?" is a contra argument too.
I support this suggestion in general so i hope it gets implied. Wichura did such nice work, that needs credit.
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I like you maps, wichura, but i there is one major concept problem.
At situation, where server has cca 200 daily playing players, adding of new invisible places where they will spend their time will never solve the problem with player empty cities. There exist many building in every city that could be bough and replace tent or de facto base (because of workbench in city,...). So you make a great work, but cities where you will be able to meet players will be still empty.
What is hard on change hotel scripts (add new location, set base price, set minumum karma level to avouid rich gang abusing).
I am always agaisnt adding new content that will not stimulate player vs player element (i dont men combat only). Even possibiliy of visibility of this locations on world map does not solve it (on TLA, there are visible bases, but there is nobody coming to visit each other, there is no reason).
But maps are fine, realy..
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i think the maps and the idea are great.
i don't understand why people are so obsessed with crowded cities. in the game, people already avoid each other. you don't go for hunting with random people who you've just met in a town. when someone enters your encounter, either you ar the other player will instarun or instashoot. most of the player-to-player interaction occures as pk.
loners buy bases, although all they need is a workbench and a few lockers to keep their stuff tidy. if i go to a town to use the workbench there, i craft and run to exit grid like most of the players. i dont stop to chat people or role play (especialy when i see people roleplaying like calling you "jew, neegger" etc, for they think this is what roleplaying is). if i need to buy something, i simply use the radio to find someone willing to sell, and go to arrenged meeting town instead of standing on the entrance of a city and shout. most of the cities are deserted. even if a player goes into a town, he quickly does his bussiness and leaves. in guared towns, generally there are only shit shovelling newbies, trading alts, thieves and followers. in unguarded towns,there are generally only the members of the controlling gang, or almost no players at all.
cities crowded with people who know how to roleplay might be fun, but if this is to be achieved, it must be done by making both guarded and unguarded towns more attractive for players, not by making them have to go there.
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I personally never wanted a tent, I just wanted to live in a cave. I think a cave home should be added. I could make it as I've made maps before but I'm lazy. :P And as for towns I too run in use the workbench and run back out again, I can't just craft something then stand around and chat with people because if I do that someone, some thief will run up and try to steal from me and usually keep pestering me trying until I leave anyway.
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Really nice idea, can be pretty useful for garage since hub and san fran are some of the most commercial cityes. By the way i think it would be awesome if u could share them.
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i think the maps and the idea are great.
i don't understand why people are so obsessed with crowded cities. in the game, people already avoid each other. you don't go for hunting with random people who you've just met in a town. when someone enters your encounter, either you ar the other player will instarun or instashoot. most of the player-to-player interaction occures as pk.
loners buy bases, although all they need is a workbench and a few lockers to keep their stuff tidy. if i go to a town to use the workbench there, i craft and run to exit grid like most of the players. i dont stop to chat people or role play (especialy when i see people roleplaying like calling you "jew, neegger" etc, for they think this is what roleplaying is). if i need to buy something, i simply use the radio to find someone willing to sell, and go to arrenged meeting town instead of standing on the entrance of a city and shout. most of the cities are deserted. even if a player goes into a town, he quickly does his bussiness and leaves. in guared towns, generally there are only shit shovelling newbies, trading alts, thieves and followers. in unguarded towns,there are generally only the members of the controlling gang, or almost no players at all.
cities crowded with people who know how to roleplay might be fun, but if this is to be achieved, it must be done by making both guarded and unguarded towns more attractive for players, not by making them have to go there.
Just about to reply but this guy said everything (and more) than I was going to say.
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first of all, you can take stuff from lockers with the skill Steal, press 3 (or 4 i dont remember) and click in the locker with the yellow tick.
and i think the idea is good, we all hate tents, EVEN BETTER eliminate tents and brahmin killing, and set the wichura quest as default to get a home. dont tell me that handle riders would be harsh for newcomers, gathering brahmin skin is harsh for newcomers, randomly go trough the map searching brahimns can be really anonying.
Also i suggest to add a Workbench and fruits to the map. There are lone guys in the game, guys that dont want to be in a faction, and need a crafting place, and not a faction base with a random name. Yes i know most people will say "this is the factions mod, go play something else" but this game must be friendly with solo players too, i play it because is the most well balanced, and it had people from all the world not only from east Europe.
A house like this will be awesome for solo players independency, and if you dont want that we will get a base anyway, i have like 2 caves in the map wich get abandoned with the time and now are mine.
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Reiniat, maybe eliminating tents is a little too... extreme?
Is thanks to tents that we slept knowing that our character wasnt going to be blasted off by a supermutant aournd NCR! Never forget this! Is thanks to tents that we can keep our stuff on the ground, guarded by a stupid that doessnt try to escape right after you exit the map! Invent some new ones cause i wont.
TENTS MUST REMAIN IN GAME.
And for the unpopulated cities, i think it's for the fact that there arent many players... after all everyone who doesnt posses Fallout 2 and a minimum of patience will ragequit after fifteen minutes of game... i always try to bring some friend in the game, and i see the fact of poorly populated cities (We can say that i live in Junktown) as somenthing bad... and as Wipe said, players enter cities if they need a workbench or to trade, never to chat. I try to chat with someone in Junktown from time to time. Oh, i forgot a thing: Junktown is not NCR, so i need to head to NCR even for a chat. But hey Wipe, that's something that happened in World of Warcraft too... with the difference that WoW has a chat connected between all cities of a faction, so i think it's quite pointless :-[
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But you can get a *free* tent or base doing a certain quest for NCR granted you don't complete it. Also it comes with free NPCs and low tier loot. ;}
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no tents = fail