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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Baptiste on August 12, 2010, 08:14:03 pm
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(I had a quick look 5 tabs deep in the closed suggestions and didn't see a thread relating to this, although I have seen it mentioned in passing on the forums somewhere)
I have one lvl21 character, and am currently levelling a second, better balanced character who is lvl14 right now. Levelling predominantly through the PvE random encounters.
So far, my experience of PvP (all be it just in interrupted random encounters) has been of one turn kills. It is more than a little frustrating to be killed without having an opportunity to make any decision that will effect the outcome of the battle. It is simply a case of who gets the first turn, and whether that person shoots or walks off. It is also frustrating to be forced into shooting another player simply because if you don't, he can easily immediately kill you, again without the opportunity to react to such agression.
I would consider it a more engaging process if HP levels were greater, or weapon damage smaller, so that it might take more than one turn to kill a player. It should provide the opportunity to actually use stims or to find cover, to swap to a more appropriate weapon/ammo type for the environment etc. Ultimately good combat mechanics should give you the opportunity to influence the outcome of the battle through choices, and this is not something I am seeing right now in FOnline.
Perhaps TC is different, where you go well prepared, with friends, and stay in strategically safe places. But out in the wild, in solo play, there seems to be no actual combat, certainly nothing sophisticated or challenging.
Surely it is not good gameplay to be watching your character die (especially with the consequences of death in FOnline) without having any opportunity to influence it.
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Armors should be nerfed up. More fun and less one turn encounters bursting your ass.
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the whole PvP is just sick. yepp
its all been said here and there:
- combat is 2 fast
- full drop is way 2 serious given the time that is needed to get ur stuff back
- loner is a walking deadman. always
- u name it
high tier weapons must not be craftable, must be obtaineble only via quests with a reasonble cooldown
the encounter thing with PK's hunting loners must be remade
the Game factions must offer alot to players (BoS, Raiders...)
u can do a lot of thing here, or the farmfest will continue...
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I would consider it a more engaging process if HP levels were greater, or weapon damage smaller, so that it might take more than one turn to kill a player.
Damn seconded, right now, combat is a matter of absolutes. Even CA armor doesn't help much.
As for NPC factions, i agree, they should give you a bit more than professions or unique prerequisites, even if i have to agree that it would be a lot of work.
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Agreed. One of the cheapest builds out is the sneak/nade or sneak/burst build or even sneak sniper. Again, the popularity of these builds is because usually, whoever shoots first wins.
I suggest the beefing up of armors. Full drop currently is a joke because it merely gives players a second reason to grief people, to see if they have something worth taking.
The loss of full drop and encouragement of pvp in pvp sanctioned areas (or full drop in sanctioned pvp areas), will not hurt legitimate PVP, but the griefers.
In every encounter I have been killed in by another person, it was always to grief. Thats why you never see those losers taking on folks like lawyers or notorious pkers like chosen soldiers. Instead it is the un-armed folks who get their cooldowns robbed.
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Agreed. One of the cheapest builds out is the sneak/nade or sneak/burst build or even sneak sniper. Again, the popularity of these builds is because usually, whoever shoots first wins.
I suggest the beefing up of armors. Full drop currently is a joke because it merely gives players a second reason to grief people, to see if they have something worth taking.
The loss of full drop and encouragement of pvp in pvp sanctioned areas (or full drop in sanctioned pvp areas), will not hurt legitimate PVP, but the griefers.
In every encounter I have been killed in by another person, it was always to grief. Thats why you never see those losers taking on folks like lawyers or notorious pkers like chosen soldiers. Instead it is the un-armed folks who get their cooldowns robbed.
and their time, and their spare equipment, because the victims usually need everything they carry...
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@Gordulan
Is that meant to be sarcastic?
When or how the hell griefing ever became acceptable I do not know. For example, losing a gun book is a pain since the hub happens to be on the other side of the map. Or getting killed while attempting the Mordino quest because said griefer thinks its "funny".
The only reason I see for it would be in beta so the devs know how badly it can be abused and to rectify it later.
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If you think about it the fact that Raiders in the fallout games love to torture and maim peple (GRIEF) means it is absolutely Fallout canon for this shit to be happening.... Even though I don't like it myself its true.
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If you think about it the fact that Raiders in the fallout games love to torture and maim peple (GRIEF) means it is absolutely Fallout canon for this shit to be happening.... Even though I don't like it myself its true.
If you want to follow the "Wasteland is tough" logic, then me might as well have to drink from toilets if we cannot find fresh water. We should have to eat daily as well. Your character would have to sleep. He couldn't stay out in the radiated wasteland all day. I mean after all we want fucking realism.
Will we ever get rid of griefing? No I don't think so being as how people are. However, lets not rub salt into the wounds with full drop death.
There is a point where things go overboard. There is a reason why WoW re-invented the MMO genre. It didn't punish people for death as severly as in Ultima or Fonline or other MMOS. Hardcore PVPers could go to specified battlegrounds to earn loot and bragging rights. In a battleground, you are guaranteed to fight those with the same mentality, same goal, and same available loot.
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too bad we've evolved to the point where we eat kevlar and weapon parts, I usually eat 40 or so deagles daily...
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If you want to follow the "Wasteland is tough" logic, then me might as well have to drink from toilets if we cannot find fresh water. We should have to eat daily as well. Your character would have to sleep. He couldn't stay out in the radiated wasteland all day. I mean after all we want fucking realism.
Will we ever get rid of griefing? No I don't think so being as how people are. However, lets not rub salt into the wounds with full drop death.
There is a point where things go overboard. There is a reason why WoW re-invented the MMO genre. It didn't punish people for death as severly as in Ultima or Fonline or other MMOS. Hardcore PVPers could go to specified battlegrounds to earn loot and bragging rights. In a battleground, you are guaranteed to fight those with the same mentality, same goal, and same available loot.
1. Who said anything about realism? I said "Fallout Canon", and I'm pretty sure the Fallout world isn't real...
2. Full drop sucks but solving this is by making cooldowns alot shorter, but making higher tier stuff need even more mats, to make higher tier stuff, more.. high tier... and rare..
3. Fallout, The Wasteland, is a warzone for survival, ever heard the term, "Survival of the fittest"? It is very realistic, but it is also very Falloutish.
People in a wasteland fighting for survival, some will turn evil/griefers, some won't, it is what it is.
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too bad all the "ugly" people are so proficient in combat, in the end, mercs aren't going to make any difference, if you can gather 5 mercs you can get easily beaten by a party of 3 players because of the shitty AS (artificial stupidity for all you who don't get AS), and minigunners will have the run of the mill really, most combat takes place within their effective range and no amount of knockouts is gonna change that their survivability being top dog compared to any smallgunner, money doesn't matter as long as you are alive to tell the tale...
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too bad all the "ugly" people are so proficient in combat, in the end, mercs aren't going to make any difference, if you can gather 5 mercs you can get easily beaten by a party of 3 players because of the shitty AS (artificial stupidity for all you who don't get AS), and minigunners will have the run of the mill really, most combat takes place within their effective range and no amount of knockouts is gonna change that their survivability being top dog compared to any smallgunner, money doesn't matter as long as you are alive to tell the tale...
5 shitty minions controlled by a mastermind is quite the threat if the mastermind is developed enough. ;D
Even 5 mercs with huntin rifles would be dangerous as long as a certain someone can manage to get close enough to make the killing burst(s) while the enemy is dstracted.
Now imagine all the mercs in realtime wielding LSWs and rocket launchers.
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@Michael
1. Who said anything about realism? I said "Fallout Canon", and I'm pretty sure the Fallout world isn't real...
Every wasteland story has "raiders". Ever wasteland story also happens to be about surviving IE eating, drinking, staying out in the irradiated and scorching days as little as possible. This has nothing to do with canon and much more to do with realism.
2. Full drop sucks but solving this is by making cooldowns alot shorter, but making higher tier stuff need even more mats, to make higher tier stuff, more.. high tier... and rare..
How does this solution make full drop on death suck any less?? How about people earn PVP gear in "gasp", something like battlegrounds. You know, Joe Schmoe wants to talk all this shit and thinks he such as badass player, why not have him test his metal against others of the same mentality. To make battlegrounds or town control even more popular, why not implement full drop in those types of combat only? You want that extemely rare Gauss Rifle or super expensive Avenger minigun? One would actually have to fight for it instead of using a one shot "bitch build" that may or may not exploit game mechanics or flat out abuse of game mechanics by getting town guards in NCR to do the dirty work.
3. Fallout, The Wasteland, is a warzone for survival, ever heard the term, "Survival of the fittest"? It is very realistic, but it is also very Falloutish
Again more Darwin remarks. Read again response to 1 and 2.
It makes more sense that people start out levelling through either crafting or PVE material. Once those folks have achieved everything they can from PVE (a lot easier to do when you dont keep losiing shit to assholes or making lengthy trips to pick up stupid crafting books or wasting real and gathering times on getting junk), they can go try their hand at pvp. If they lose their gear in the arena than tough shit. Its the risk ya take to be a real badass.
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Every wasteland story has "raiders". Ever wasteland story also happens to be about surviving IE eating, drinking, staying out in the irradiated and scorching days as little as possible. This has nothing to do with canon and much more to do with realism.
How does this solution make full drop on death suck any less?? How about people earn PVP gear in "gasp", something like battlegrounds. You know, Joe Schmoe wants to talk all this shit and thinks he such as badass player, why not have him test his metal against others of the same mentality. To make battlegrounds or town control even more popularl, why not implement full drop in those types of combat only? You want that extemely rare Gauss Rifle or super expensive Avenger minigun? Go try and take it from the fella who has it.
Again more Darwin remarks. Read again response to 1 and 2.
It makes more sense that people start out levelling through either crafting or PVE material. Once those folks have achieved everything they can from PVE (a lot easier to do when you dont keep losiing shit to assholes or making lengthy trips to pick up stupid crafting books or wasting real and gathering times on getting junk), they can go try their hand at pvp. If they lose their gear in the arena than tough shit. Its the risk ya take to be a real badass.
1. Exactly, every wasteland Game and Movie has raiders, because why? Its canon, its something in a post-apocalyptic wasteland people have percieved one to have.
2. People who risk their extremely high tier stuff will berisking even more if it took more mats, and with lower cooldown, lower tier mats, and equipmet would be cheaper,with the resources being less hard to get and equipment being less hard to get.
3. water, food, all that crap has already been suggested, and no one is sure if it will be implemented, so yeah, its a possibilty we will have our classic wasteland with raiders and need for food to survive etc,but if not lets try and keep some of it that already here...
People are ass holes in every game, mmo, deathmatch anyting online there will be ass holes, there will be griefers, its part of the internet please get over it.
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5 shitty minions controlled by a mastermind is quite the threat if the mastermind is developed enough. ;D
Even 5 mercs with huntin rifles would be dangerous as long as a certain someone can manage to get close enough to make the killing burst(s) while the enemy is dstracted.
Now imagine all the mercs in realtime wielding LSWs and rocket launchers.
now imagine 2 BA'd avengered high quality minigunner players, and 1 super-advanced sniper being pitted against you and your 5 mercs, who would win? the 3 players would win easily because of the fact that they have a 95% chance to hit, 0% chace to spaz out, and the sniper has a 95% crit chance in your mercs eyes 5% of instakills and the minigunners have over 200 HP whereas your mercs have shitty leather jackets/metal armour... my money would safely be on the 3 player squad, no mastermind can defeat godly junkies, ever, it has never been recorded, because you can't control one merc at a time, nor can you prep them with orders before the fight with several variables, and I hardly think it would ever be actual...
2. People who risk their extremely high tier stuff will berisking even more if it took more mats, and with lower cooldown, lower tier mats, and equipmet would be cheaper,with the resources being less hard to get and equipment being less hard to get.
2. the bigger gangs will only have the best gear anyways, no matter what happens you'll see squads of BA'd power junkies with the ultimate weapons.
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People are ass holes in every game, mmo, deathmatch anyting online there will be ass holes, there will be griefers, its part of the internet please get over it.
Well as I read above Keldorn meant to have full drop only in unguarded towns.
As for me there could be a zone NCR + Hub + Junktown some little bubble or even the major part of south west to be without full-loot or only full-loot in unguarded towns would be fair enough... seriously... comparing this to any other game Fonline is ultra hardcore. I hate when people set caravans or stand near NCR killing those who come in...
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1. People who risk their extremely high tier stuff will berisking even more if it took more mats, and with lower cooldown, lower tier mats, and equipmet would be cheaper,with the resources being less hard to get and equipment being less hard to get.
I can agree with ya here. However it still doesn't resolve the "lost real time". If I lose a a gun or science book near the Den, I have to walk my ass down to the Hub to get another one. This only makes it suck more for those who are new or dont have many friends (alas my friends think the graphics of this game are "too old" to be worth playing). Think you solved this question by buying a vehicle? Think again cause that cheap ass sneak build just bursted your face and your key is gone.
The above statement also does nothing to keep higly equipped guys from griefing lower levels for shits and giggles. I agree with you it won't stop griefing but without full loot drop, the situation for new players or loners gets a lot less tough. So some assholes kills me for fun or to try to start a war, thats fine. I get back on my feet and go mine somwhere else without wasting time scavenging junk/wood for basic tools or getting that basic said junk getting jacked by asshole thieves. Getting the picture here?
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now imagine 2 BA'd avengered high quality minigunner players, and 1 super-advanced sniper being pitted against you and your 5 mercs, who would win? the 3 players would win easily because of the fact that they have a 95% chance to hit, 0% chace to spaz out, and the sniper has a 95% crit chance in your mercs eyes 5% of instakills and the minigunners have over 200 HP whereas your mercs have shitty leather jackets/metal armour... my money would safely be on the 3 player squad, no mastermind can defeat godly junkies, ever, it has never been recorded, because you can't control one merc at a time, nor can you prep them with orders before the fight with several variables, and I hardly think it would ever be actual...
s.g. junkie in BA, P90, plus 3 lsw mercs, two rockets, *Human*, against those odds, I would need to ambush them from grid, just give them the attack all nonfaction members and go crazy, they'll spaz out from the lightning attack and be running away all over the place, against them with them well knowing I was about to attack, allowing them to drug up and get ready, would OF COURSE cause me to lose but mecenary leader tactics, due to AI, leave them with no other tactic than ambushes. And although I can't prove this unless someone else can confirm it for me, but I took out a gang of 8 russian sniper powerbuilds, they had leather combats on, and I just charged them from Virgin Street to 2nd Street, just slowly mowing them down, although in 2nd street they finally managed to pick us off by leading the mercs away from the group and beat us... Which as the result of my own stupidity for not being calculative enough to give the mercs the move-to command to regroup, for alone with a sniper your screwed, but theres safety in numbers... Plus uh.. my rocket guys ran out of ammo so that didnt help :'(. I ran to commercial to get away but got head crit knocked out over and over by some bluesuit with 11 hp left and hunting rifle LMAO!.
Mercs are more powerful than people want to believe.
1. People who risk their extremely high tier stuff will berisking even more if it took more mats, and with lower cooldown, lower tier mats, and equipmet would be cheaper,with the resources being less hard to get and equipment being less hard to get.
I can agree with ya here. However it still doesn't resolve the "lost real time". If I lose a a gun or science book near the Den, I have to walk my ass down to the Hub to get another one. This only makes it suck more for those who are new or dont have many friends (alas my friends think the graphics of this game are "too old" to be worth playing). Think you solved this question by buying a vehicle? Think again cause that cheap ass sneak build just bursted your face and your key is gone.
The above statement also does nothing to keep higly equipped guys from griefing lower levels for shits and giggles. I agree with you it won't stop griefing but without full loot drop, the situation for new players or loners gets a lot less tough. So some assholes kills me for fun or to try to start a war, thats fine. I get back on my feet and go mine somwhere else without wasting time scavenging junk/wood for basic tools or getting that basic said junk getting jacked by asshole thieves. Getting the picture here?
Fraid not im not gettng the picture quite yet, but if this: Well as I read above Keldorn meant to have full drop only in unguarded towns.
As for me there could be a zone NCR + Hub + Junktown some little bubble or even the major part of south west to be without full-loot or only full-loot in unguarded towns would be fair enough... seriously... comparing this to any other game Fonline is ultra hardcore. I hate when people set caravans or stand near NCR killing those who come in...
Is what you meant about there not being full drop then sure, go crazy, just leave unproteced towns alone.....
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FOnline wouldn't be FOnline without Full Drop. It's one of the last games where you have this hardcore rule. If we change FOnline to make it look like every other games, it would have no interest to stay in this low graphic oldie game.
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FOnline wouldn't be FOnline without Full Drop. It's one of the last games where you have this hardcore rule. If we change FOnline to make it look like every other games, it would have no interest to stay in this low graphic oldie game.
Except for people who love the Fallout games. ::)
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Yes but I don't think Fallout fanboys love Fallout only for the graphics. Do you want a Fallout skinned World of Warcraft ? I hope not.
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hrmm, i uses a completely different character progression system from WoW, and I'd actually like to see for like a week what would happen if full drop was removed, it's a beta, no need to be republican about it...
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It's quite simple. We wouldn't fear death so much. And raids would become shit.
But I wouldn't mind a test, even if I won't participate to it.
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What are the benefits to raiding currently besides the TC rewards?
Full loot drop can still be impleneted in either a Areana/Battleground zoned area or for Town Control. Those who would suffer the most with full loot drop removal outside of those special cases would be griefers.
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Kinda new here but... the endless grindfest does not feel like fallout to me, and Full drop combined with the inherently griefable setup right now do nothing AT ALL to promote the feeling of fallout. I don't feel like my character's life is in danger, I feel like my time is being wasted. I don't feel the pressures to survive in a hostile environment lacking in resources, I feel like my time is being wasted. I don't feel like I'm struggling to achieve anything greater because joe the retard fifteen year old with just Muhommad-Jihad-Allah-bombed me by blowing his ass up next to me for the LULz.
Either ditch fulldrop, or make the guards in towns Fascists who literally kill you if they detect explosives of anykind on your person. As if a survivalist community would let ANYONE into their compounds with explosives, the idea is laughable.
They'd kill that person on sight and just take the crap they brought to trade. I don't mind a stand up fight someone shot me in the head, whate ver, that's fallout. But some douchewaffle with plastique or whatever walking into town past the guards, gettign to the crafting station, then setting up the bomb for the lowest timed interval? No that makes no sense, there's no way in hell a police force, especially in an unregulated world where police brutality can go unchecked and they can just beat the snot out of someone or kill them outright if they perceive a threat without bureaucratic repercussions. What are you going to do? Write an injunction on officer Hub Sam's conduct? They'll probably just threaten you and your family into silence, the only thing seperating Fallout police from raiders, in my mind, is that the police "won" at raiding and now have a town that they're willing to kill a lot of people to protect. Other than that it seems to me their mindsets would be about the same. Random strip searches for explosives and arbitrary police slayings for everyone with them.
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I'm side-stepping the issue of vulnerable low level characters - they will always be at risk to some extent and you have to accept some evil max level player can grief you. I think it would be best to concentrate on balancing combat around the interaction between max level characters.
And so my sentiment still remains that HP levels and potential damage per turn are the real issue for a mature character. At level 21 and T2 armour I am still being gunned down in one turn by someone who appeared on the same random encounter map and got lucky with their turn happening first (or me already having used half my turns AP).
Simply put it is poor mechanics to have no control or influence on the outcome of battle. PvP encounters need to be slowed down to allow for an actual game of choices to take place. Chess would not be a classic game if, on your first turn, you could just drive your Queen into their King yelling 'CHECKMATE!!!' - you would certainly always want to play as white if this were possible... and certainly no intellectual person would persevere with such a game, they would move on to something where their ability and hard work actually counts for something.
I replied late to my own post here because I've taken more than a week off playing. I was a little fed up that after 4 attempts to get to a HQ mine to get enough materials (without dieing and losing it all) to craft a P90 to help me finish the leveling process, I managed only 30 minutes of gameplay in an obscure world map square before I got sneak/naded to death without even knowing someone else had appeared on the map.
If I would have had a chance to reply by choosing to fight the guy, or attempt to run, then I could have accepted the loss because being given the chance to win/survive is enough to make it feel like a game with meaningful interactions and actions and consequences - but seeing 4 or 5 hours work disappear into nothingness because of an impossible to predict or counter grenade explosion graphic is a clear indication that FOnline is not worth playing in its current format. It simply does not reward time spent, but is very good at handing out penalties.
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not to mention that 33% of the playerbase consists of *-less pixel sadists
(http://fellowshipofminds.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/attack-of-the-giant-rooster.jpg)
*refer to the picture