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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Ned Logan on August 10, 2010, 07:55:46 pm
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(https://i.imgur.com/WLq5R.jpg) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_Jones_Made)
Priority is to have game which is fun to play, not realistic post-apocalyptic wasteland.
Things in green is what needs to be added/changed to achieve such world.
LVL 1:
You spawn at safe location with resources and guides to learn the necessary things.
LVL 1-20 loner style:
You level up doing many interesting quests, killing critters, mining and crafting yourself gear, if you get enough loot from hunting, you can sell it and buy yourself gear.
(if you are griefer you kill newbs and get gear from them)
LVL 1-20 multiplayer style:
You level up with friends doing many interesting quests, killing critters, mining and crafting yourself gear, if you get enough loot from hunting, you can sell it and buy yourself gear.
[this is currently not practical, because only the one who kills, gets exp, not the whole group]
(if you are griefers you kill newbs and get gear from them)
LVL 21:
You explore many interesting encounters, caves etc, do interesting quests, getting yourself gear from them.
You wait for events. You mine and craft yourself gear, but you shouldn't be forced to.
If you are griefer you kill newbs, if you are anti-greiver, you try to find and hunt griefers, secure mines etc.
Organised PvP:
Getting top gear on lvl 21 is matter of matter of minutes, not hours, so it is the best choice for a gang to have PvP fun.
The counter is 15 minutes.
The game user interface and battle system is made so the result of battle depends on skill, tactics, little of luck and unfortunately numbers.
PvP arena system, allowing duels between single players or gangs of approximately equal strength to duel and allow others to watch.
General
You can make players events, RPing.
Gathering and crafting cooldown doesn't exist. Every lvl 21 has ton of items, but so what, as long as the game is fun and 5 low end equiped lvl 5 guys can kill him in his top gear everything is ok.
You can take only 1 drug at a time.
Focus on RT combat, possibly even remove the TB altogether.
Integrate FT-like aimbot.
AP replenishing also during walk, during run too, but only half speed.
Flexible walk/run speed, modified by carry weight (30kg and less: full speed ... 150kg and more: half speed).
Possible to enter sneak anytime anywhere. (Sneak rebalanced)
Total weapons & armor rebalancing overhaul (Lordus' recent suggestion is good).
Maybe hard cap skills at 200 not 300.
Re-read again please, ignoring the added/modified stuff (green).
Discuss.
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Ok I can agree with pretty much all of this....
more food for thought since Devs are too busy to bother with content atm, they gotta manage the 3D.
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you can make it once the SDK pack comes out, there's been an announcement made a while ago, but the timing it would be release is set to "soon", it is actually Cvet who announced this, and it will come with optional TLA files, however, the 2238 files are exclusive to this server... so yeah, just putting it out there...
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Also what I forgot to add because I was still thinking over:
Focus on RT combat, possibly even remove the TB altogether.
Integrate FT-like aimbot.
AP replenishing also during walk, during run too, but only half speed.
Flexible walk/run speed, modified by carry weight (30kg and less: full speed ... 150kg and more: half speed).
Possible to enter sneak anytime anywhere. (Sneak rebalanced)
Total weapons & armor rebalancing overhaul (Lordus' recent suggestion is good).
Maybe hard cap skills at 200 not 300.
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The World that it never was :P
But anyway you could try..
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Maybe hard cap skills at 200 not 300.
snipers will officialy be useless, because a biggunner needs about 180% skill to be useful whereas a sniper needs at least 250% to be effective, that's the reason most snipers have crap skills in general and focus on not being in enemy LOS... say hello to waves of minigunners running about the server if it will have a skill cap at 200%, I'm on 215% skill and can't hit the enemy eyes with a handgun beyond 20 hexes at 95%, and eyeshots are all that matter for snipers...
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I have some time right now so I thought I'd comment.
Priority is to have game which is fun to play, not realistic post-apocalyptic wasteland.
First line, and yet I disagree. Yes, we all want the same thing, a game that is fun to play. However, I want a "realistic post-apocalyptic wasteland". Not too much realistic of course, but just enough to provide one thing that is too often forgotten - survival (And survival is often in "Realism" category when it comes to the wasteland). But... Survival can be fun ! I don't think we disagree that much here, but your sentence sounded like "We want munchkins not low-tech stuff" :p
You spawn at safe location with resources and guides to learn the necessary things.
Yes, that would be cool. Afaik, devs aren't opposed to a guide (=!= noob town) at beginning, but spawning with a few resources is some kind of new idea, and I like it.
You level up doing many interesting quests, killing critters, mining and crafting yourself gear, if you get enough loot from hunting, you can sell it and buy yourself gear.
(if you are griefer you kill newbs and get gear from them)
It seems close to what we have right now, or at least what we'll have in a few months (Quests contest shows it, for example).
You level up with friends doing many interesting quests, killing critters, mining and crafting yourself gear, if you get enough loot from hunting, you can sell it and buy yourself gear.
[this is currently not practical, because only the one who kills, gets exp, not the whole group]
As I said on another topic, shared exp is on devs' to-do list (which doesn't mean it'll be implemented soon) :p
The counter is 15 minutes.
Solar said it'll be like that on next update (Or did he say after next wipe ? Well anyway, it's planned).
The game user interface and battle system is made so the result of battle depends on skill, tactics, little of luck and unfortunately numbers.
Yes, I vote to remove instant kills too :/
Gathering and crafting cooldown doesn't exist. Every lvl 21 has ton of items, but so what, as long as the game is fun and 5 low end equiped lvl 5 guys can kill him in his top gear everything is ok.
Huh, no it's not. Having tons of items in a post-apocalyptic wasteland is a nonsense and leads to a not funny situation, where everyone has so much stuff that nothing has value. Ask PvPers if they have fun at the moment with being rich. Also, I personnaly dislike this, because of the survival thing I already explained at the beginning of my post.
Integrate FT-like aimbot.
Will be implemented asap, afaik (But it might be up to cvet).
AP replenishing also during walk, during run too, but only half speed.
Huh, even more advantages to attackers over defenders, and longer fights ? Not my cup of tea.
Possible to enter sneak anytime anywhere. (Sneak rebalanced)
Sneak is already quite good, no need to make everyone able to sneak anytime, anywhere.
Overall - Good ideas, nice and small changes that, unlike many other suggestions, are small enough to have a chance to be implemented, and wise enough to improve this game for everyone. Keep it up !
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. Ask PvPers if they have fun at the moment with being rich. Also, I personnaly dislike this, because of the survival thing I already explained at the beginning of my post.
You dont realy get the point, aren't you? We have not fun not because of tons of stuff, but because current player - organized PvP (= Town control beacons) + drugs bad addict timeouts means, that we can fight 2 fights in more than hour, if we are LUCKY.
I hope there are others GM or developers that can actualy recognize the worst problems in PvP.
This is the reason why i left the game now, i have my own duties and i will rather spend one hour by wood choping (real wood) than die (or not) in one minute of one hour waiting fight.
Izual, i exactly dont know if you have PvP experience, i can lend you my chars, drugs, stuff, mumble information, i will like to see, if you will enjoy PvP. I dont have anything agaisnt you personaly, but i dont like, if person who could change something in my favourite virtual world, does not recognize the problem (or listen to players who knows it). I know it, rest. of VSB (or Hawks) members too. We are here from the begining, from the start. It is not reason for aplaus, but we have experience with every kind of PvP that was here. I think that small number of players can say this, maybe few mushrooom boys. Because we and they had powerbuilds even in first era. Again, not reason to aplaus. But we can see that in PvP, until new sneak was implemented, is not developing.
Power builds were invented, druged or non, and there is not any new space for inventing in the barirers of current system (special, skill points,...). We gave you respons, and you tell us, that problem is big amount of stuff... ehm
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First line, and yet I disagree. Yes, we all want the same thing, a game that is fun to play. However, I want a "realistic post-apocalyptic wasteland". Not too much realistic of course, but just enough to provide one thing that is too often forgotten - survival (And survival is often in "Realism" category when it comes to the wasteland). But... Survival can be fun ! I don't think we disagree that much here, but your sentence sounded like "We want munchkins not low-tech stuff" :p
Heh yeah, I know what you mean. I wan't some sort of "realism" and survival atmosphere too, but I still like firing minigun when standing, be able to withstand 3 eyeshots (with luck) etc...
Huh, no it's not. Having tons of items in a post-apocalyptic wasteland is a nonsense and leads to a not funny situation, where everyone has so much stuff that nothing has value. Ask PvPers if they have fun at the moment with being rich. Also, I personnaly dislike this, because of the survival thing I already explained at the beginning of my post.
Yes, but is should not be so frustrating to get your gear just to have some PvP fun as it is now - that is my reason for such suggestion, I would be glad if it was solved somehow more realistically related to the fallout world.
Huh, even more advantages to attackers over defenders, and longer fights ? Not my cup of tea.
Currently the fights are like this: a gang is holding position somewhere, scout warns them of incoming enemies. pew pew pew. there are the victors standing in the same position as when the fight started, the rest lies on the ground dead (same positions).
Regaining AP during walk and run combined with different speeds of BG tanks, snipers and sneakers would bring a lot of fresh air into battles and their tactics - changing positions, retreat etc. Currently the best is just to hold your ground or run away instantly as you see the enemy.
Sneak is already quite good, no need to make everyone able to sneak anytime, anywhere.
I meant you shouldn't have to go hide away from your team just to enter sneak so the enemy can't see you.
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Currently the fights are like this: ...
Regaining AP during walk and run combined with different speeds of BG tanks, snipers and sneakers would bring a lot of fresh air into battles and their tactics - changing positions, retreat etc. Currently the best is just to hold your ground or run away instantly as you see the enemy.
I meant you shouldn't have to go hide away from your team just to enter sneak so the enemy can't see you.
Currently, the fights mechanics are just fine. Sometimes its best to stand, sometimes you take cover behind the wall to regain APs, sometimes you run. Ragained aps and different speed would need much balancing with uncertain result and I thik the devs shoul be concentrating on filling the game up with content.
As for sneak, you dont have to hide from your team, just have them all to tag you and there ya go-you can sneak in front of them.
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Currently, the fights mechanics are just fine. Sometimes its best to stand, sometimes you take cover behind the wall to regain APs, sometimes you run. Ragained aps and different speed would need much balancing with uncertain result and I thik the devs shoul be concentrating on filling the game up with content.
As for sneak, you dont have to hide from your team, just have them all to tag you and there ya go-you can sneak in front of them.
Bantz, i dont agree with you. Mechanics are fine but almost same like in eras before. Snipers at longe range with their one shot crit, big gunners bursters into close combat. Nothing between (sneakers are not pure PvP chars). From my point of view: booring
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Total weapons & armor rebalancing overhaul (Lordus' recent suggestion is good).
And then you get threads like this from other PvPers: http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=6173.0
There is no need for a total overhaul. I don't agree that there needs to be nothing either though ;)
As for the rest, all those things we've said we're doing/intend to do I agree with. The rest ... I don't :)
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Sniper got too much range and power (eyeshot 100 mininum)
Big Guns just shoot one time with minigun and everyone else down in encounter and also one rocket launcher shot to center of guys and do bad damage :P
Energy weapons attacks to metal armors are useless (if you can make eyeshot then it can be better)
Plasma Granades are just too powerful. Few nades to center of guys in NCR and they are dead.
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Ah, I didn't realise this was the thread of hyperbole. My mistake.
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Ah, I didn't realise this was the thread of hyperbole. My mistake.
I don't know if you are referring to the comment of runboy93 or the whole thread, but I mean my suggestion seriously, no hyperbole.
Currently there is 1 SG, 2 BG and 1 energy weapons in use in main PvP battles (P90 and laser rifle aren't really good enough).
Weapons need balancing - specific effects for various guns (knockback, add temporary 1sec blinding next to real blinding) and and maybe even smaller differences in damage. See my suggestion about XL70 - there should be more weapons for different scenarios to use, not just 1 best gun for each class and the rest being secondary crap for sale.
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This lacks factions. Afaics fonline is going to be about npc and player factions more and more.
People who kill others aren't griefers. They are bandits.
PvP arena system, allowing duels between single players or gangs of approximately equal strength to duel and allow others to watch.
Open pvp is much more interesting. We just gotta encourage players not to do mindless murdering and suicide attacks. After that it's just about being careful and not sticking your nose in wrong place if you're not able to deal with troubble.
Every lvl 21 has ton of items, but so what, as long as the game is fun and 5 low end equiped lvl 5 guys can kill him in his top gear everything is ok.
I'm against this. Instead of constant dying and losing stuff you should try to live longer and make it with less equipment. Living shouldn't serve the cause of fighting but fighting should serve the cause of living. So you fight so that you could live.
EDIT: the pvp suggestions were alright though suggested before.
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Living shouldn't serve the cause of fighting but fighting should serve the cause of living. So you fight so that you could live.
I totally agree with that ! And the gameplay should confort this.
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Living shouldn't serve the cause of fighting but fighting should serve the cause of living. So you fight so that you could live.
Lot of us play this game for fighting. You push this too far and lots of people will quit. The question is, can you make a great survival game that would atract others? Fights are enjoyable, living can be only if there is anything to do. Right now, there isnt much to do.
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The fun isn't to live, but to manage not to die. If you run into every battle telling yourself "I ran and shoot like a berserker, and I'll die, but I'd have made damage", I think it's wrong. Everyone should battle (because it's fun) but try to stay alive, playing the more efficiently possible.
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I'm alarmed by the thought that no gear overhaul is needed. From a single player RPG to a PvP MMO, we're keeping things basically the same.
Even Tactics was a marked improvement. Damn.
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Currently there is 1 SG, 2 BG and 1 energy weapons in use in main PvP battles (P90 and laser rifle aren't really good enough).
Huh... No.
And laser rifle roxx.
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Lot of us play this game for fighting. You push this too far and lots of people will quit. The question is, can you make a great survival game that would atract others? Fights are enjoyable, living can be only if there is anything to do. Right now, there isnt much to do.
Don't worry man. Even if we put more survival elements in the game fighting isn't going to disappear. Just look at real life. Life is super precious and unique and yet there is fighting everywhere. Even when man's basic desires (warmth, food, water) are satisfied they still fight and kill for power, ideologies or even better standards of living. Man's greed is endless.
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Don't worry man. Even if we put more survival elements in the game fighting isn't going to disappear. Just look at real life. Life is super precious and unique and yet there is fighting everywhere. Even when man's basic desires (warmth, food, water) are satisfied they still fight and kill for power, ideologies or even better standards of living. Man's greed is endless.
Eh, this post actually did the reverse of washing away my worries...
I wonder when someone proposes removing world map travelling in favour of 10k hex wide maps for each WM quadrant...
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I don't know if you are referring to the comment of runboy93 or the whole thread, but I mean my suggestion seriously, no hyperbole.
Currently there is 1 SG, 2 BG and 1 energy weapons in use in main PvP battles (P90 and laser rifle aren't really good enough).
Weapons need balancing - specific effects for various guns (knockback, add temporary 1sec blinding next to real blinding) and and maybe even smaller differences in damage. See my suggestion about XL70 - there should be more weapons for different scenarios to use, not just 1 best gun for each class and the rest being secondary crap for sale.
Referring to runboy's post.
Laser Rifle not good enough? Heh, funny post.
I'm alarmed by the thought that no gear overhaul is needed. From a single player RPG to a PvP MMO, we're keeping things basically the same.
There certainly is no need for an overhaul. Small changes on a few guns is all thats needed. A lot of exagerated claims are made that don't really reflect the facts.
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There certainly is no need for an overhaul. Small changes on a few guns is all thats needed.
But we've still got 70% resistance to laser on some armours! Knife swings and thrusts being exactly the same! Dozens of guns without application! Identical AP costs for so many guns!
No, wait! Don't... don't go! We've got so much to talk about! My whole new idea of characters who use low AP zip guns! I... I call them 'Zippies'...
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There certainly is no need for an overhaul. Small changes on a few guns is all thats needed. A lot of exagerated claims are made that don't really reflect the facts.
Well if you can do it I'll be surprised. It's just so far little changes here and there have just caused either big guns or snipers dominate the field of pvp. Another issues is the fact that pvp effectivity is extremely build-reliant rahter than player's skill reliant. New strategic elements must be put for players to utilize unless the plan was to keep it so that big numbers in some skill rule and there's no way over it.
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Theres already regularly used:
Sniper Rifles
Laser Rifles
Avengers
Rocket Launchers
LSW
Plasma Grenades
Frag Grenades
Assault Rifle (for cheapness/flexability)
Sometimes used and needing only a small boost to become regular:
Plasma
p90c
Jackhammer
Minigun
FN FAL & M60 (These two will be used when the correct 7.62mm stats come on)
Needing only an extra perk:
Plasma pistol
14mm Pistol
.223 pistol
You then have cheap options such as:
10mm SMG
Magnums of different types
Copmat shotguns
Hunting Rifles
A whole host of low range guns/melee weapons just waiting for run to target
Mix in a fix to the drug system and a few perks/traits I personally hope to persuade the others to add in and I don't think we will be too far off, without a total overhaul.
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It's not just about the weapons like I said. It's also about passive factors' effect on the outcome of actions. Perks and stats have an enormous effect on how a conflict will end. Player's accuracy, damage intake and output is more reliant on numbers in their character sheet rather than clever usage of enviroment, equipment and action points. It might not be so obvious in town control matches because players use very similar powerbuilds. But when players who have chosen luxury perks or invested in something else than combat capabilities start fighting powerbuilds the differences begin to stand out.
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Mix in a fix to the drug system
I dont like current drug system, because it has contradiction in terms (i hope i use correct term..). There are plenty of drugs with different effects but the consequences are same: max life and max AP power builds.
I preffer system, where every drugg will add little boost in only one (exept mentats) SPECIAL, but it will cause bigger drop of another stat. So if you take all drugs togeher, you will be weaker than at start.
This could 1) support of variety of pvp chars 2) eliminate bad effects of drugs, because you will get bad addict effect at the same moment like good effect 3)Junkie traits (little modified) could have sense (bigger effect of major SPECIAL but also bigger drop on anothers and reverse)
Also because of combination main reason of taking drugs are HP and AP, consumation of 3 or more any drugs could cause actual HP fluctuating and AP lowering..
=> no more mega junkie power builds
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I'd say nerf psycho a little, and no allowing stacking of drugs, as well as a max of 2 different drugs being active at a time, it's just totally insane how über the character can get while on drugs and best gear, hopefully this won't be the case next "season".
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I preffer system, where every drugg will add little boost in only one (exept mentats) SPECIAL, but it will cause bigger drop of another stat. So if you take all drugs togeher, you will be weaker than at start.
It really shoud be like you said. Drugs cocktail are never a good thing, and it will moderate drugs using/abuse.
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Can't be bothered searching for the post where I said it, but about the time the new king of the hill was implemented I was talking about how drugs should include negative factors, so any cocktail would result in less good boosts, but more widely spread and for a higher cost.
This will be how it will work.
The effects will also be for longer (less micromanagement to remain drugged all the time) and will have one effect only (not + for 10 minutes followed by a - for 10 minutes ... this is so drugged chars don't have enforced periods where they can't play).
So, much smaller boosts but a lot more user friendly.
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@ Solar....
This seriously sounds like a very good approach! Im looking forward to these changes.
Chiko