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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: JovankaB on August 10, 2010, 03:39:08 pm
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My idea is to introduce karma and permadeath in a way that could perhaps be acceptable by most players and that would reduce a bit the number of trolls and douchebags (it would be still possible to be one, but now it would also be a real risk - IMHO making the game more interesting for EVERYONE, also for those who want to play some "psychopaths") while keeping more mature PvP (TC battles) intact.
1. Introduce karma.
2. The karma would drop in every location when you shoot (-30), kill (-90), successful steal (-stolen item base price/100) or do other "bad" things to players, UNLESS:
a) the person you attacked is on "permadeath" timeout
b) the person has "unprotected" flag (like a thief who failed stealing and was spotted by guards)
c) the location you are in is a war arena (there is Town Control timeout in the location).
d) the person you attacked has very low karma (I don't know, something like -2000)
3. Every time your karma drops, you enter permadeath timeout for N seconds/turns where N = karma drop. If you die during the timeout it's equal to permanent death of the character. It would reduce "shot first, ask later" attitude which is unrealistic and unfalloutish IMHO, even if it's wasteland most people aren't psychos shooting everything that moves.
4. Suiciders who will manage to kill someone are automatically permadead. Make sure there are proper checks to prevent causing permadeath by planting explosive on dead body etc exploits.
5. Add some way to turn off peramdeath timeout during events in specific locations.
6. Perhaps there should be some skull icon over a head of people on permadeath timeout, blinking during the last 5 seconds / last turn of the timeout.
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I liiiike this idea! Maybe finally we'll see less idiots in wastelands.
PS
Hey, Jovanka, what's about next New Reno Event, will it be or not? (asked J. Salvatore) ;)
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This will make it where you will never see pvp in town. Did TC ever cross your mind?
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This will make it where you will never see pvp in town. Did TC ever cross your mind?
How about you read it again and try to understand what I wrote?
Hint: points 2c (no permadeath during TC) and 2d (psychos with low karma can kill each other with no permadeath risk).
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good ideea, but i do not like the perma ideea for others,i suggest repliction coldowns of 2 RL weeks, better than permadeath,depends
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How about you read it again and try to understand what I wrote? Hint: point 2c.
Ah, yes I must've missed that, my bad.
But other than that, we're still forgetting these towns are ungaurded, not to mention we're already losing karma from attacking a player, why must we suddenly get perma death for attacking a player? Your punishing us for playing the game, and please no one pull that "Well your punishng players by constantly killing them" crap, they're not getting their friggin entire accounts deleted now are they? Just a couple items missing. And while remember we're ALSO LOSING KARMA, which will eventually lead to the town constantly trying to mob the shit out of people who pvp in towns, which is punishment enough no? Either waste half a fucking ammo dump's worth of ammo to halt the mob from killing you or run.
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You are losing REPUTATION not karma. Karma is a different thing.
It's not punishing, it's making the game less quake-like and more fallout-like. Currently there is very little risk with attacking others, so there is plenty of 21 level people runing naked with hunting rifles, shooting bluesuits etc. because death means nothing for them. Remember it would be just 120 seconds of potential permadeath if you kill someone with one shot. It would mean if you kill someone, you have to hide, run away from town if you want to be safe. It makes sense and maybe would make more people coming to towns.
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You are losing REPUTATION not karma. Karma is a different thing.
It's not punishing, it's making the game less quake-like and more fallout-like. Currently there is very little risk with attacking others, so there is plenty of 21 level people runing naked with hunting rifles, shooting bluesuits etc. because death means nothing for them. Remember it would be just 90 seconds of potential permadeath. It would mean if you kill someone, you have to hide, run away from town if you want to be safe.
Karma and reputation are practically the same thing, You keep doing bad things to people, people will come after your ass.... Its just reputation deals with specific communities.
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First of all there is no karma currently. Karma would be global and only for PvP behavior. Maybe you should read my post again. Low karma doesn't mean you have permadeath. Permadeath timeout would be only for a short timeout right after your karma drops. It would make attacking random people more risky but possible.
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Maybe you should read my post again. Low karma doesn't mean you have permadeath. Permadeath timeout would be only for a short timeout right after your karma drops.
I am well aware, I'm saying that with your suggestion about killing other players in towns causes our karma to drop steadily, isn't that punishment enough to hav an entire mob constantly chasing you? (WHICH I WIL AGREE NEEDS IMPLEMENTATION!!! badly...) I just don't think shooting another player (In a specifically titled, "ungaurded" town, should make you viable for permadeath whatsoever.
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I guess we have different visions of FOnline. I think the problem is that you can stay in Modoc all day and shoot innocent people with only a risk that you will lose one of your 13123128 hunting rifles. Or do it by using militia which is even less risky and made towns even more deserted.
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It's a very interesting and unique way to cut down on the game's current sociopathic slant. However, I don't see it getting introduced. I can see it being abused, just because FOnline players seem to only want to stomp the faces of their fellow players and will find ingenious ways of doing it.
I think a lot of the bizarre gameplay - like well armed 21 bluesuits - is also a consequence of full loot. The material consequences for dying are so harsh it stifles normal gameplay - you wear your best armour and shoot your best gun.
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I guess we have different visions of FOnline. I think the problem is that you can stay in Modoc all day and shoot innocent people with only a risk that you will lose one of your 13123128 hunting rifles. Are do it by using militia which is even less risky and made towns even more deserted.
I will agree with yu there its kind of ridiculous. But I have solution for that, there should simply be different gaurd script in miliia, Only if a fellow gang member (in control) IS SHOT not SHOOTING at someone, they will not aid in the killing.
Basically, I am in control of town, i hav 5 militia, I shoot some poor bluesuit, they dont attack bluesut.
I am i control of town, I am shot, militia attack shooter.
Simple solution.
And Back to topic:
I really think karm drop in attacking/killing players in these towns is good enough and will hopefull reduce th continous pk a good bit, but alts...
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Finally an interesting idea to introduce permadeath !
I have to say I hate permadeath, but this idea sounds good. Maybe timeouts should be shortened a bit, but it sounds good anyway.
Some things are still bothering me a bit, still.
- What is planned for mercs/slaves/followers ? Leader characters would be quite overpowered, wouldn't they ? Just buy mercs and kill everyone without taking the risk of perma-dying.
- Let's say two teams of 10 players are fighting. 1st team fights normally, shooting or taking cover as usual. 2nd team has characters with high resistance and HP, and its players don't shoot. But whenever one character from the opposing team attacks them, all the 10 focus on the attacker, that quickly dies. Then, wouldn't it lead to a point where when some big teams are on the same location, no one dares shooting because the first to shoot will also be the first to perma-die ?
I vote for a test of that system in CBT.
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Is caravana meant also like war area or in here karma would drops?
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I think merc owner should always be responsible for all actions of his mercs directly commanded by him (not if they attack on their own for whatever reason).
There is a great feature for people who want to kill each other in big teams and it's called Town Control. Maybe there should be also one permanent non-permadeath-risk area, New Reno for example.
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or insted of permadeath some high replication coldowns,is better than losing a caracter that you needed 3 moths to lvl up to lvl 21
i thing permadeath is a little bit...permanent,so let's make it a temporarely v long death,like a week(whorst case)
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Long respawn = fast reloging to next war alt.
Danger of permadeath = more carefulness and higher chance of that player will still play on this char.
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I think more people will quit... I mean, a big amount of the playerbase pvps randomly in towns everyday... And if this gets implemented... what will they do now? Will TC be the only way to pvp with other players than that random guy out in the wasteland? And WHEN a gang does TC, Remember EVERY big fucking gang with more di- miniguns than they could give away will come bustin in and absolutely raping everyone there (Although this happens already I imagine gangs doing it even more so). Why? Because they will now be more desperate than ever for some good pvp, more so than now.
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There is a new PVP system on the way. I don't know if it will be alongside or if it'll replace TC.
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My idea is to introduce karma and permadeath
Everything you suggested now is totaly useless.
Question n.1 is, WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF YOUR IDEA?
Do you realy think, that cities will be full, or at least, not empty of players, if you realize this idea? No, i dont think so. Add more content into the game, support players ideas and their activity, dont BAN every dual logger because they are ruining everything good you created and of course (i.e. my radio madbrahmin), and sometimes, go with your combat char and join pvp, to see how it is now "funny"..
This idea is in my personal chart near the dumb ass idea of Parle. Whole idea ground is bad. Wasteland is not eden, you know. There are PK and we have to accept it. But we can do something with this. Lets support anti PK (gangs - like VSB, TTLA, ...) with some kind of guild system, but you choose punishment way, bad aproach. And, of course, lets make special guild for PK too (with some kind of bonuses).
But the main problem of your idea is that you dont get the actual problem of fonline.. it is not PKilling, it is absolutely no content in the game, not supproting or erasing naturaly developed content and booring (without exceptions) multi PvP (do you, Game Masters, reaiize, that we dont capture cities not because of we are not able to, but bacause it is more funny to fight for 25 minutes, than wait 25 minutes).
So if you want to make some help, not abstract, at least, low the timer to 15 minutes. But maybe you dont have such power, to remove 10 minutes from server setting..
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JovankaB, you are obviously personally responsible of everything Lordus hates in FOnline. Evil witch.
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Add more content into the game, support players ideas and their activity, dont BAN every dual logger because they are ruining everything good you created and of course (i.e. my radio madbrahmin), and sometimes, go with your combat char and join pvp, to see how it is now "funny"..
This is the way to go. Soft and fun. Players must be guided and supported towards the gaming styles devs favour not pushed and whipped.
The reasons of psycho behaviour lie in lack of activity not in people's assholeyness. Well some are assholes but if there was more activity they'd be busy assholes.
And by activity I mean something almost unreachable that could still be achieved. And everybody should be after this something. There's no option to stay out, but instead the ways to reach it would be so vast that there'd be solution for everyone.
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Yeah, and now imagine the consequences. 2 players doing friendly pvp in town, to check their skills. One kills another with a fatal strike. Then some asshole comes and kills the winner, the winner gets permadeath.
Another example - stealing would be totally abandoned. And that's because of people who kill thiefs who aren't even untagged, just because they hate them. Even if you would steal succesfuly, you would most likely perma die. Situation: a thief steals an item, starts running to the grid. Noone would know that he stole, because he succeed. But what happens now? His enemy just bursts him to death, and uses an exploit to get away from guards(there were many of those lately). Yay! You try to steal some caps, you have to restart your character!
Not going to happen.
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I'm actually for this idea, but it has allot of flaws. But that's what this thread is for, to comment and add your own twist to this wonderfull suggestion. Not scream and cry about it.
The first thing that would cause an issue would be traps. A team meets a lone seemingly easy loot player, they kill him and suddenly a big band of players jumps and easily kills them. Goodbye characters!
Second thing is, this system won't protect you from a group at all. Since they can easily get away with killing a loner.
About stealing, death there should never be perma for that, as the motives are different for the thief, he just tries to live his life.
And besides its a pain to raise a thief character anyway, not something anyone would like to see vanish.
This is a good suggestion but needs some changes (allot) to work correctly, and could change the entire gameplay.
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JovankaB, you are obviously personally responsible of everything Lordus hates in FOnline. Evil witch.
What is doing your NCR Army, i did not notice that you tried to protect mines from pk, traders from thiefs or gangs from boredom in last few days.. Maybe your soldiers have vacation. :P
But yes, i can seriously tell, that JovankaB is responsible for end of Radio Madbrahmin project. Now, i can never win the roleplay medal from Solar. :'(
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My idea is to introduce karma and permadeath in a way that could perhaps be acceptable by most players and that would reduce a bit the number of trolls and douchebags (it would be still possible to be one, but now it would also be a real risk - IMHO making the game more interesting for EVERYONE, also for those who want to play some "psychopaths") while keeping more mature PvP (TC battles) intact.
1. Introduce karma.
2. The karma would drop in every location when you shoot (-30), kill (-90), successful steal (-stolen item base price/100) or do other "bad" things to players, UNLESS:
a) the person you attacked is on "permadeath" timeout
b) the person has "unprotected" flag (like a thief who failed stealing and was spotted by guards)
c) the location you are in is a war arena (there is Town Control timeout in the location).
d) the person you attacked has very low karma (I don't know, something like -2000)
3. Every time your karma drops, you enter permadeath timeout for N seconds/turns where N = karma drop. If you die during the timeout it's equal to permanent death of the character. It would reduce "shot first, ask later" attitude which is unrealistic and unfalloutish IMHO, even if it's wasteland most people aren't psychos shooting everything that moves.
4. Suiciders who will manage to kill someone are automatically permadead. Make sure there are proper checks to prevent causing permadeath by planting explosive on dead body etc exploits.
5. Add some way to turn off peramdeath timeout during events in specific locations.
6. Perhaps there should be some skull icon over a head of people on permadeath timeout, blinking during the last 5 seconds / last turn of the timeout.
Hahahahahahahaha. Thanks Jovanka for making my day, this is the best joke in last month.
Simply, what you will get is:
- list of totally useless skills made longer by 2 items (Traps skill and Steal)
- list of people who ragequit 2238 getting longer and longer, due to your not-so-obvious and in fact, STUPID, permadeath rules
- TC PWNED by your permadeath rules (if you ever played PvP, you would know that sometimes there is a lot of action when the TC timer is not active - as well before taking the town, as after taking it
- PvP not happening or just a tool for griefers, due to everyone wanting score "permakills" (imagine those sneakers in towns waiting for someone to attack someone else)
- your "karma" doesn't make any sense, as it can't get higher, just gets lower and lower... so after killing particular number of people, you would have to make another alt (yay more alts!) or be shot without any consequences
- I can go anywhere in a bluesuit with LSW or minigun in second active slot, then call the first encountered person a dick, asshole, douchebag, stupid fucker, moron and such, then when he's angry and attacks me, I kill him and YAY! He's raging more, because his character is wasted. And I laugh more. He couldn't know I had all of my drugs active, so he couldn't kill me so easily ;]
I generally agree with what was said by Lordus.
The most funny is the fact that this suggestion is made by a person who should (as a GM) know a lot about game-mechanics and "methods" used by "fonline community", then Izual (another GM) says this suggestion is almost wonderful... Seriously, if you have thought about your suggestion more than just 5 minutes, you would find it very shitty, but well..
After you implement this "permadeath system", change Server status checker to (for example):
"282 players... and counting"
instead of
"282 players"
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Hum, implemant permadeath could be a choice, but not in this way.
That just mean because you shot first, you risk permadeath, and the other nothing? Come on... I can think at thousands of possibility where it totally suck.
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permadeath for suicidebombers is ok for me... I kinda like the rest of idea too, but it need some changes, as in this way it will be exploitable and game ruining...
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I will agree with yu there its kind of ridiculous. But I have solution for that, there should simply be different gaurd script in miliia, Only if a fellow gang member (in control) IS SHOT not SHOOTING at someone, they will not aid in the killing.
Basically, I am in control of town, i hav 5 militia, I shoot some poor bluesuit, they dont attack bluesut.
I am i control of town, I am shot, militia attack shooter.
Simple solution.
And Back to topic:
I really think karm drop in attacking/killing players in these towns is good enough and will hopefull reduce th continous pk a good bit, but alts...
that's pretty dumb really, the wuyy will come after the bluesuit better equiped, and when the bluesuit defends himself he gets raped by those 5 militicians... Maybe remove the militia protection of the gang member altgether for as long as the combat is initiated by the shooter who is a gang member? a bit off-topic, yes, but quite relevant to other things...
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Well, this should apply to settlers:2238 zone, maybe south etc. leaving out unguarded towns. I approve the idea of marking a person for PvPing, its in many other MMOs and I dont see why Fonline should be different. The system could work also with thieves...
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Personally, i think this is a bad idea, it will not protect people, and it will make people even worse off if they want to fight, also, after having done PvP in TC, i can tell you, that alot of the worst fighting happens after the timer runs out... at least for me and my old gang. we either all died or got away with the money after the timer ran out.
as for a suggestion about how to make this work, i'd say that you could use a "karma" system, but it would require work. my suggestion as is follows.
When you kill a person after firing the first shot and starting the fight, your karma drops by 100 points, if it reachs -1500 than your repsawn time will be set to 2 hours. if your karma reachs -2000 than it is a full day. balance this some, you gain +20 karma per day, so after a while, you can go back to your PKing/Bombing freely without risk, but you'll have to wait before you can use all of your bomber alts if you're a bomber by trade, since you'd get about two big group kills before you'd be over, thus limiting a bomber alt to one use per day if used often.
also, you should lose only 50 karma points for killing a level 18+ character, since they should be able to defend themselves by than at least.
as for stealing, everytime you steal you lose 30 points of karma, no matter if you fail or not, but, i don't think karma death time outs should apply to stealing, as in the world of FOnline, and realisticly.. .thieft is not as serious as murder. stealing should be handled by a town rep system, not karma.
this does remove the permadeath, but FOnline is already harsh. and it does not need to be that much worse, i do have one personal note to add on this matter as well.
I see people talking about "Lets make them think before they pull the trigger!" but, really, that makes no sense to me what so ever, this is a game, some play it like a PvP game, some like to have it as a trade sim before they find something else to get their "trader fix" from. or some just like to mess with people for fun. (And it can be fun) but more to te point. people shoot each other since they don't want to be shot, add NPC guards for locations in unguarded towns that would defend their NPC faction bases. like the new reno mob bases, or the slavers stopping random nut jobs from running around with guns to close to their big base.
also, i have one last thing to add. using small "good karma quest" could help. since adding a quest that gives +50 or so, that can be done once every two hours, could be used to balance out the negative karma, since it still allows you to make up for bad deeds, but you'd still need to farm the quest quite a bit in order to fix that bad of karma.
i've probably left something out, but this is a start, anyway, cheers folks.
-Ulrek-
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My idea is to introduce karma and permadeath in a way that could perhaps be acceptable by most players and that would reduce a bit the number of trolls and douchebags (it would be still possible to be one, but now it would also be a real risk - IMHO making the game more interesting for EVERYONE, also for those who want to play some "psychopaths") while keeping more mature PvP (TC battles) intact.
1. Introduce karma.
2. The karma would drop in every location when you shoot (-30), kill (-90), successful steal (-stolen item base price/100) or do other "bad" things to players, UNLESS:
a) the person you attacked is on "permadeath" timeout
b) the person has "unprotected" flag (like a thief who failed stealing and was spotted by guards)
c) the location you are in is a war arena (there is Town Control timeout in the location).
d) the person you attacked has very low karma (I don't know, something like -2000)
3. Every time your karma drops, you enter permadeath timeout for N seconds/turns where N = karma drop. If you die during the timeout it's equal to permanent death of the character. It would reduce "shot first, ask later" attitude which is unrealistic and unfalloutish IMHO, even if it's wasteland most people aren't psychos shooting everything that moves.
4. Suiciders who will manage to kill someone are automatically permadead. Make sure there are proper checks to prevent causing permadeath by planting explosive on dead body etc exploits.
5. Add some way to turn off peramdeath timeout during events in specific locations.
6. Perhaps there should be some skull icon over a head of people on permadeath timeout, blinking during the last 5 seconds / last turn of the timeout.
I am a fan of the permanent death mechanic and I am very excited to see that a game master for this great mod is considering implementing it in some form, and also communicating with the community for feedback. I feel the mechanic described in your post is too restrictive however. It also worries me that you seem to think the suicide bomber and the PvP in the open wastes are both the same.
To rebuff my PvP points, I like to think the game has one more profession that is unnamed: the criminal profession. This profession is the pickpocket who steals from you in the busy marketplace, the highwayman who you meet in the wasteland who wants to make your goods his, the murderer who kills maybe only because you said the wrong thing and he can get away with it, etc. The noob advice thread as linked through the wiki says to think of an idea for a character and build them around that idea.
Just as Fallout 1 and 2 had the "Good" and "Evil" way to play, so should Fallout Online. Where one player chooses to play the armorer who forges armor to live a "good" way, so too can a player choose to be a robber to meet the armorer on the road and take his creations.
The right way to think of this game is that every action is a Player vs. Player action. If you are making goods you are competing with others doing the same. You can undercut their price to deprive them of income. You can get to a buyer first and eliminate demand. You can gather resources faster (geckos, buying ore form others, etc.) With every sale you are increasing the strength of your position in the game world. Thus, when one moves about in the world one is setting about to increase their own power, whether it be to gather resources or acquire caps through sales. By killing other people in the wastes, you are preventing them from gaining a power advantage over you, and you are acquiring power for yourself.
With these rules in, what is to stop some noob who wanders into an encounter with higher level players from trying to steal all the loot? Right now when two parties enter an encounter, one party either gives up the loot/kills, or both parties assert rights over the loot/kills and risk what they have for it. There is an element of playing poker in this situation. Can your hand beat his hand? Are you willing to risk your chips for the pot? There is one more option, and that is the criminal one: where one party wants to kill the other party. This mechanic you have introduced is designed to discourage the third option, but it also would absolutely ruin the great game play experience involved in the first two. Some kind of loot tagging system where people can only loot what they kill could be put in, but loot tagging is unrealistic, and preventing unrealistic gameplay is one of the goals of these mechanics. It is also one goal I agree with, but this way ruins other things.
1. Introduce Zone of Control
a.) Zone of Control is World Map squares surrounding a town through which the town patrols, scouts, and enforces it's justice (Hub, Junktown, NCR, etc.)
b.) Each Zone of Control has it's own rules established/enforced by the controlling town.
2. Introduce karma.
a.) Karma is unique per Zone of Control
3. The karma would drop in every location Zone of Control when you shoot (-30), kill (-90), successful steal (-stolen item base price/100) or do other "bad" things to players, when you violate rules enforced within Zone of Control, UNLESS:
a) the person you attacked is on "permadeath" timeout
b) the person has "unprotected" flag (like a thief who failed stealing and was spotted by guards)
c) the location you are in is a war arena (there is Town Control timeout in the location).
d) the person you attacked has very low karma (I don't know, something like -2000)
3. Every time your karma drops, you enter permadeath timeout for N seconds/turns where N = karma drop TOTAL KARMA (x2,x5,x10, maybe higher). If you die during the timeout it's equal to permanent death of the character. It would reduce "shot first, ask later" attitude which is unrealistic and unfalloutish IMHO, even if it's wasteland most people aren't psychos shooting everything that moves.
4. Suiciders who will manage to kill someone are automatically permadead. Make sure there are proper checks to prevent causing permadeath by planting explosive on dead body etc exploits. awarded Karma according to Rules within Zone of Control. The penalty will be fitting to discourage this unrealistic game play significantly. [/u][/b]
5. Add some way to turn off peramdeath timeout during events in specific locations.
6. Introduce Evidence Token
a.) Evidence Tokens are items that hold the numeric values of the karma of the player(indicating severity of crimes).
b.) Evidence Tokens are unique to each Zone of Control.
c.) Players marked with Permadeath who are killed are not actually permanently dead, but respawn. An Evidence Token is created on the player's corpse
1.) Evidence Token is dropped ONLY for the Zone of Control the player was killed in.
2.) The Evidence Token has a lifespan of 30 minutes.
3.) If the Evidence Token is destroyed (not picked up and encounter is destroyed, lifespan ends) Karma points and permadeath status are returned to the outlaw player.
d.) Outlaw Players who die within a town have their Evidence Token automatically created into a Record.
7. Sheriff Changes / Introduce Outlaw Records
a.) Create Sheriff for each unique Zone of Control
b.) Sheriff now accepts Evidence Tokens with matching Zone of Control.
c.) Evidence Tokens accepted by the Sheriff enforcing justice will either create an Outlaw Record for the offending player, or if the offending player already has a record the numerical value will be added to it.
d.) Players with an Outlaw Record can be killed within any Zone of Control they have an Outlaw Record in without Guard retribution.
8. Bounty Tag Changes
a.) When killed within the Zone of Control the outlaw has a Record in, the outlaw player drops a Bounty Tag which can be turned in.
b.) Upon this tag is recorded the current numerical value of the offenses. This prevents a player keeping a tag when the bounty value is low and turning it in later when the bounty is high.
b.) When the tag is turned in, a financial Reward (in caps) is given which scales to the crimes of the offender.
c.) When the tag is turned in, there is a Consequence: a percent chance the former outlaw player is marked with permanent death, and will no longer respawn. This chance scales to the crimes of the offender.
d.) When the tag is turned in, the record of the offending player has the value from the tag subtracted.
e.) When the tag is turned in, all tags created before this one for this outlaw are deleted.
Advantages:
The Evidence Tag may seem redundant with the bounty tag, however it gives the player who kills the outlaw player the option of whether to punish the outlaw player. The outlaw player's crimes may have been minor, or the player with the tag may not wish to sacrifice their time to go to town and punish the outlaw. There are also options of blackmail: perhaps the Evidence Tag is sold back to the player. Or perhaps the outlaw players friends are also in the encounter and nobody hostile to the outlaw player ever gets the Evidence Tag.
The whole scheme gives players room to kill other players in the desert, but those focusing on killing will be weeded out.
Risk vs. Reward: Players who kill others outright increase their power over their peers dramatically. As they obtain this power though, they will risk losing their options to travel in those Zones of Control which they are outlaws in, which is a drastic decrease in power. They will eventually find themselves in a position where they will have to risk ALL they have to enter certain areas, or stay out completely.
Suicide bombers of course will reach this quite quickly. And players will be offered a chance to cash in when they get their revenge.
Each town can have it's own rules, allowing much flexibility to experiment with rules, as well as adding character to towns.
PVP zones can be unrestricted, so can areas far from towns.
Bounty Hunting, killing, stealing, Justice: fucking awesome.
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yup, its good idea, it would be similiar to pk system in other mmo but here we will have permadeath than losing stuff as it in others mmo
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well i've given my two cents already, so i'll reply to the latest mini suggestion.
the thing i don't think all the people who agree with this understand. is that "permadeath" is not something you fool around with it makes game play a very serious thing, and it also does not agree with people who like to play less "harsh" games at times, and thus cuts out another type of FOnline player, one which we want around, and its been shown that a number of more relaxed solo non-gang member players have been on FOnline, and have enjoyed themselves for quite a while, and i don't think any of them would like this at all, since i can think of a nice little exploit already, that has to due with unguarded mines, and people getting perma killed for trying to protect them, thus leaving them open to attack since no one wants to risk lossing their character for some one else, which is realistic, but not very fun. it also means yet another thing people don't want to risk going poof in the sands of the wastes.
as for Saumax's post, i do think he has some good points there, but i don't see how any of that really has to do with a perma death system. what i do see however, might have a useful bit, in that if you put a bounty tag on some one, when their karma drops to low, and they're widely known to be a anti social type. than that would at least make things interesting i think. wouldn't fix any problems, but it'd be interesting. which means i'd vote yes on that, if it didn't have anything to do with perma death, since you already drop everything when you die anyway..
i might have said a few things i already mentioned before, but i'm tired... rainy weather. anyway, cheers folks.
-Ulrek-
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mmm i like killing people by bursting in NCR, tho i still like this idea :) so, YES!
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Permadeath has no place in MMO that does not involve endless grinding and tons of alts.
Additionally FOnline fails to sort out such (compared to this) easy things to balance such as crafting/looting and in order to have any kind of permadeath/exp loss on death you need, no you MUST have uber balanced game. Not our case.