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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => General Game Discussion => Topic started by: Lordus on August 09, 2010, 07:44:19 pm
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Fonline is one year online (am i poet? ;) ) and i have to say, that during that time, there unpurposely evolved kind of game mechanics, roleplays, in general: content. Unfortunately, many of content disapeared.
It is little sad, because it was kind of content, that attract and entertain many players. I personally knew them and the reason why they disapear is because there were not support for this kind of players or developers tried to tune another game mechanics and this tune eliminate original game mechanics. Sometimes they (maybe) dont know that kind of content already exists and was popular.
I will describe that i miss a lot:
Multi PvE:
Caravan hunting was part of everyday evening, time before gang had enough players to join PvP, but enough taste to "kill something". Also it was way how to obtain ammunition, weapon, stuff in general for next few hours (biggunners need a lot of ammo). When i posted my suggestion about radnom caves nuclear waste storages (with stuff inside), that could be great evolution of multi PvE, i did not know, that afrer tuning of developers, even caravan hunting will disapear. There is no need to mulri PvE as a way how to obtain stuff, because there are many others, cheapers but more boring ways than this.
Economy balance was the main reason why there is no more caravan hunting, no more PvE. The intention was to reduce the stuff in the game, the result everybody knows.. Typical example of developers intervention without thinking about consequences.
Speleology (visiting caves for few random stuff and leveling) is almost the same example. There is no need to do this.
I have to repeat, the caravan hunting and speleology was not the best thing to do (after sex), but with other players, it was funny. At least something.
What is our current alternative of multi PvE? Nothing!! After year of betatest.
Stuff trading (roleplay of merchants).
There were many player factions existing because of this kind of roleplay. But "balance" in economy, lack of support by devs (it takes few months until you disable suicide bombers threat) leads to situation, that there is not any big gang specialized for trading stuff.
Brahmin traders.
There were sort of players, hunting brahmins, selling it, or making meat from this, because of drugs.. But there is not any evolution in this role play.
There are many others kind of roleplay (like pvp), that are supported by devs, but reason why i created thsi topic is that developers maybe missed existence of previous described content or they underestimate it. Instead of this, they were supporting projects like NCR Army, Hub citizenship. But like everybody knows, support of this artificially created commutity roleplay (gameplay) was waste of time and support, instead of support of naturaly developed content. And this is bad aproach.
Dont think i want srart flame or whine, i just give you feedback.
I hope i will be able to join multi PvE action, after another year of betatesting..
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This is no flame nor whine.
This is the best gameplay opinion I have read on this forum + the PvP arena system suggestion by Sius.
Multi PvE is one of most fun things to do if you don't want to do PvP, and current PvP sucks for majority of players who do not wish to devote enormous amounts of time to get the gear necessary to be competitive in it for every battle.
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This is no flame nor whine.
Hey, noone already troll/flame on this topic! ;D
Anyway, I totally agree on this topic. I miss farming.
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I miss farming.
Sigh... As I somehow said on another topic : "Do you guys really want to play Fallout Online ?"
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Sigh... As I somehow said on another topic : "Do you guys really want to play Fallout Online ?"
Farming with friends = is not offline activity
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I don't think Izual wanted to emphasize the "Online" but "Fallout". Anyway I do not understand him... exploring the wasteland, abandoned cities, caves, desert etc is the most Falloutish thing for me, not mining and crafting, which is what you need to do to a lot to do to participate in PvP unless you prefer griefing noobs and miners, considering PvE is now boring and uninteresting which is the point of Lordus' original post.
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Farming is and always will be the cause of item overflooding. This is the wasteland, stuff is supposed to be scarce and well defended. Besides the whole concept of caravan raiding is stupid and doesn't fit fallout: "Let's risk our lives for nothing and kill some armed dudes so that we can kill some more!"
Maybe our devs are trying to make fonline something else than some typical farm-reliant mmog.
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Farming is and always will be the cause of item overflooding. This is the wasteland, stuff is supposed to be scarce and well defended. Besides the whole concept of caravan raiding is stupid and doesn't fit fallout: "Let's risk our lives for nothing and kill some armed dudes so that we can kill some more!"
Maybe our devs are trying to make fonline something else than some typical farm-reliant mmog.
Or the typical crafting reliant one as well? Wait no we still gotta craft our asses off, and its not like you can really work your ass off for some uber prize in like a dungeon because guess what? WE DON'T GOT THOSE :D :D :D :D.
So unless they have something to replace farming its not so good idea to remove it.....
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:)
Yeah, remove crafting too if you want scarce stuff. Lets see how the game plays after that...
If you are out of suggestions to make FOnline like realistic post-apocalyptic wasteland at the expense of gameplay, just ask me.
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Or the typical crafting reliant one as well? Wait no we still gotta craft our asses off, and its not like you can really work your ass off for some uber prize in like a dungeon because guess what? WE DON'T GOT THOSE :D :D :D :D.
You're not forced to. You just think you are. There's no goal in the game so you don't HAVE to do anything. There's no game over no matter what. But there's not victory either.
Besides our crafting is kind of unique because of unguarded resource sources. Even though I agree crafting can be tedious there are games where it's fluent and captivating.
So unless they have something to replace farming its not so good idea to remove it.....
Who said anything about removing? I'm for replacing. Instead of farming we'd have hunting which is like farming but with consequences. We already have something like it but it's in its child's shoes.
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I don't think Izual wanted to emphasize the "Online" but "Fallout". Anyway I do not understand him... exploring the wasteland, abandoned cities, caves, desert etc is the most Falloutish thing for me [...]
Farming isn't (I was quoting Crazy).
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Farming is and always will be the cause of item overflooding. This is the wasteland, stuff is supposed to be scarce and well defended. Besides the whole concept of caravan raiding is stupid and doesn't fit fallout: "Let's risk our lives for nothing and kill some armed dudes so that we can kill some more!"
Maybe our devs are trying to make fonline something else than some typical farm-reliant mmog.
Ok, but until there will exist new content, why erase this one? I have to repeat, after 1 year of betatest, there is not multi PvE content..
There are plenty ways how to make caravan hunting more dangerous.. i.e.: after attacking of caravan, they will call for help.. more inside of caravan routes, more quickly there will arive more and more caravans guards (bigger distance from the basic routes, more slowly, but there will be bad chance to find that encounter).
But instead of tuning this content, they made changes that means end of this.
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Farming isn't (I was quoting Crazy).
So farming isn't Falloutish? What difference is between farming and hunting? If I go kill stuff for the items not exp (because Im lvl 21 and exp is meaningless for me now) am I farming? Should we expect that after another update the critters won't drop even weapons and stuff thus would be usefull only for leveling up? That would be way fucked up development...
Do you plan to totally bury PvE and make this PvP only game, making us lvl 21 who hate mining and crafting to turn PK to get items?
From what I've gathered, no one here has any idea what direction the game is going. No idea how game economy should work. No endorsed ways of playing after reaching lvl 21.
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So farming isn't Falloutish? What difference is between farming and hunting? If I go kill stuff for the items not exp (because Im lvl 21 and exp is meaningless for me now) am I farming? Should we expect that after another update the critters won't drop even weapons and stuff thus would be usefull only for leveling up? That would be way fucked up development...
Do you plan to totally bury PvE and make this PvP only game, making us lvl 21 who hate mining and crafting to turn PK to get items?
The way I see farming differing from hunting is that hunting can't last forever. This means that there are restrictions how much you can kill something before there's nothing to hunt for a while or the hunted retaliates or evolves. When you farm you just keep picking stuff without any consequences.
Ok, but until there will exist new content, why erase this one?
One can only guess. Maybe the caravans couldn't take it anymore and decided to end their bussiness. But it's not that I wouldn't want multi pve. Player guarded caravans would be a good start, but while fights are ruled by powerbuilds it's out of question. Especially if you needed charisma to join the guards but no charisma to rob them.
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The way I see farming differing from hunting is that hunting can't last forever. This means that there are restrictions how much you can kill something before there's nothing to hunt for a while or the hunted retaliates or evolves. When you farm you just keep picking stuff without any consequences.
One can only guess. Maybe the caravans couldn't take it anymore and decided to end their bussiness. But it's not that I wouldn't want multi pve. Player guarded caravans would be a good start, but while fights are ruled by powerbuilds it's out of question. Especially if you needed charisma to join the guards but no charisma to rob them.
But there's already a restriction for caravan farming : you can only have one type of "valuable" caravan per hour. Of course you can use a radio to move on a new caravan, but most of the time, valuable caravans are really interesting, with plenty of guards, when you hunt them in big party.
But I agree caravan farming should have more consequences.
And player guarded caravans would be awesome, for sure, I hope so.
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Multi PvE:
Caravan hunting was part of everyday evening, time before gang had enough players to join PvP, but enough taste to "kill something". Also it was way how to obtain ammunition, weapon, stuff in general for next few hours (biggunners need a lot of ammo). When i posted my suggestion about radnom caves nuclear waste storages (with stuff inside), that could be great evolution of multi PvE, i did not know, that afrer tuning of developers, even caravan hunting will disapear. There is no need to mulri PvE as a way how to obtain stuff, because there are many others, cheapers but more boring ways than this.
Totally agree. Give players a chance to get more(than it is now) equipment this way. Everyone will be satisfied - people who like to spend hours for gathering minerals and crafting(maybe they get satisfaction?); these, who like to kill other players to get stuff(maybe this way is faster, and also does it satisfy people); and now, if this is implemented back, these, who like killing critters(no players are harmed, but we could still have fast equipment) will also get a reasonable reward. Would that make crafting useless? I think not, because crafted items are new - no break count. Looted items were already used before. Spending more time on crafting would still mean more money you can get. Just make it less boring somehow.
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maybe add a voluntary "minigame" that will reduce your cooldown by 20% (like 4 levels of contra with 1 life, should balanvce ot out really...)
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Without reading anything but the OP,
Caravans - the problem with these was that they were really easy and gave out tonnes of stuff. I have no problem at all with there being decent encounters to loot but there must be a corresponding challenge to it ... else its just handing out high tech gear.
When the new encounters come in there will be Mutants, NCR Army, BoS and Enclave patrols where decent loot can be put, what needs to happen is these all need to be played with until they are hard enough to beat to deserve this stuff.
For caves, I'm sure Lexx has said on the forum that he's doing stuff for this at the moment.
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For caves, I'm sure Lexx has said on the forum that he's doing stuff for this at the moment.
YEAH! I knew there is still hope for you...
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For caves, I'm sure Lexx has said on the forum that he's doing stuff for this at the moment.
If it's mapping, is it then his exclusive matter or could he use some mappers?
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Without reading anything but the OP,
Caravans - the problem with these was that they were really easy and gave out tonnes of stuff. I have no problem at all with there being decent encounters to loot but there must be a corresponding challenge to it ... else its just handing out high tech gear.
When the new encounters come in there will be Mutants, NCR Army, BoS and Enclave patrols where decent loot can be put, what needs to happen is these all need to be played with until they are hard enough to beat to deserve this stuff.
For caves, I'm sure Lexx has said on the forum that he's doing stuff for this at the moment.
Id like some "decent" encounters like the raids given by Metzger in F2, so not placed on the worldmap but via quest. That could be done 2 people, 3 or even 5. Cave-like raids would also be good. As it is now, you can only get deteriorated (as you say end-game) stuff, but this is not comparable with what was in F2. Not tons of crappy lvl 3 weapons, but raids with mass weak or medium strenght NPCs. Was cool
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Erm... http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=2512.msg21425#msg21425
- it completely eliminates crafting cooldowns, they are replaced with time required to find materials (+ players real life luck to find them)
- you can easily integrate solo and group PvE farming, smaller instances, cave hunting into this without making it too easy nor hard
- exploration, scavenging...
- with enough love these maps could be randomly generated (such as environment in Diablo) = endless possibilities
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And then to keep everything going at the same rate that countdowns are you would have to be able to find something at exactly the same rate. (Except this way it would be nigh on impossible to balance)
So instead of moaning about timeouts you would have people moaning about "Its so hard to find stufff"!111!!!"21!!2!"
However you want to disguise the delays to gathering, they will have to be there, be it cooldowns, searching, rocks with HP or anything else - it will still be equally dull - standing still, running about a map, endlessly hitting a rock, whatever else, unless you also add in something interesting (Travelling about the world map, some critters to overcome, forcing players together to open up PvP opportunities, etc).
Upon the wipe we will have a few changes to try to make the process a little less "passive" and a little more "active", whilst also reducing the timouts to be as lenient as we can possibly get them. Hopefully this will make it somewhat less of a tedious task whilst also preserving some kind of balance.
This still applies as much now as it did then, except now timeouts are even less of an issue.