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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Haraldx on August 03, 2010, 10:19:49 pm
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XL70E3
Overview - first most unused burst gun right after FN FAL as even NPCs don't use them. Has very limited range and lower damage then assault rifle. Has also smaller magazine. It's also harder to craft, as it's SG3 while AR is only SG2 and requires whole lot more HQ resources. Even worse - you can't make it have extended magazine, and you have to live with the 20 bullet magazine, while 1 burst requires 8. XL70E3 doesn't have no chance against AR.
Tweaks/nerfs:
* Swap the range with Assault rifle.
* Change damage to 14-21.
H&K CAWS
Overview - Another almost useless gun. It has same damage as Combat Shotgun, smaller magazine and needs 6 instead of 5 strength to carry it. The only bonus for this weapon is it's 5 round burst and 14 hex range (Combat shotgun has 12, not much of a change). Besides, it's much easier to get a Pancor Jackhammer which takes almost the same resources but is at least 2 times more devastating and has the old 5 strength requirement.
Tweaks/nerfs:
* I have totally no idea as this weapon sucks, but doesn't need to be more powerful then jackhammer.
Assault rifle
Overview - One of the most used if not the most used SG gun due to it's huge range, good bursting but in the same time making it a good sniper weapon. The only weapon it doesn't really stand against is the P90c if it is enough near. Has almost the same range as sniper, can be upgraded with extended magazine and a perfect burst can deal up to 150 hp damage. XL70E3 is useless against this weapon.
Tweaks/nerfs:
* Swap the range with XL70E3
* Change damage to 12-20
WILL BE UPDATED!!!
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Devs dont care of this weak weapons.. one year from start of open beta and no intention to balance guns. Well, they can save time of 3D modders, because majority of guns are useless..
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Devs dont care of this weak weapons.. one year from start of open beta and no intention to balance guns. Well, they can save time of 3D modders, because majority of guns are useless..
You mean first make every weapon of the same type with the same stats, and then tune every weapon to have thier own bonuses and penalties (in PvP measure), because now it uses fallout original stats, yes, there were changes, especially nerfing shotguns, etc., but anyway there's low tier equipment and high tier equipment like in leveled game.
Anyway there's not much variables for weapons to make them all balanced and not the same at the same time, it's not JA2 or CS. Damage, range, AP usage, ammo usage (armor penetration) and difficulity/value in $ for maintain/get weapon, that's all.
How you want weapon be balanced?
With weapon you need only shoot at people, so everyone will choose weapon that doing it better. If you want to make it better in different conditions, then what conditions it is in fallout? There is no even ground attack with splash damage or blind shot with burst if you know that sneaker is somewhere there, you simply see target and shoot at it. There's already weapon with lower range but better damage if you want difference between long range and short range weapon, what else? Fallout doesn't give you anything else with weapon.
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Yep, every single stat — every single one of them — for the XL70E3 is worse than the stats for the Assault Rifle, and the XL70E3 is a higher-tier weapon that requires far better materials to manufacture. I posted a blow-by-blow comparison in another thread in this section.
Straight-up swapping their stats would be a good move at this point, and I say that as someone who's about to use an Assault Rifle to level up his (non-sniper) Small Gunsmith character.
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they're gonna remove the XL altogether from being craftable soon.
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they're gonna remove the XL altogether from being craftable soon.
heh, thats progress.. most expensive and most unefective SG weapon will be removed because of why? :)) maybe after removing of this gun, its ability will be boosted ;)
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probsbly not
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is there a chance to bring new weapons ingame? cause the scorpio from fallout tactics would make sense and help reduce the mountains of useless 9 mm bullets in my tent :D
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is there a chance to bring new weapons ingame? cause the scorpio from fallout tactics would make sense and help reduce the mountains of useless 9 mm bullets in my tent :D
not until 3D engine will be ready.. and there is no need to add new weapons, because there are dozens and unused because there is no intention to balance them
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Damage, range, AP usage, ammo usage (armor penetration) and difficulity/value in $ for maintain/get weapon, that's all.
[...]
Fallout doesn't give you anything else with weapon.
You forget another point : weapon perk
- Scoped
- Long Range
- Accurate
- ...
All give a little difference ^^
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not until 3D engine will be ready.. and there is no need to add new weapons, because there are dozens and unused because there is no intention to balance them
ok that is a good point, haeve other also the problem that their base is stuffed with sg weapon and i dont know what to do with it? maybe weapons should only be avaible trough crafting, it dont know (one step in this direction, marauders have no longer combat shotguns). and your right, there is a huge imbalance in it, against other player 99% percent of sg are simply useless, even my beloved shotguns. But , i for example, dont play pvp, and i like a various combination of sg weapons (even my fists :D) to use in encounters. and its quite simple: give the players more ways to use stuff the get from encounters! i mean i can use 10 mm for 10 mm pistol , for smg, for hk90. ok that quite good, but for what i should use then 9mm balls? to bring the scorpio ingame, would give a way to use this shitload of 9 mm munition that is around (men , people use 9 mm munition for decoration; i mean, in a postapokalyptic wolrd where you use your hard earned munition for decorate your tent or your garden, would be a little bit weird), and give newbies ANTOHER way for an automatic weapon.
and im for everxy suggetion that make sg mor usable, different types of munition, changing the stats. i mean halt of the game, even more are fights, and for this there is little development in there..
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Well really, the problem is that Fallout and Fallout 2 were never balanced... far from it. Very far from it.
Out of all the dozens and dozens of weapons available, only 1/3rd of them were actually good in the original games. In a multi-player game where everyone's stats are min-maxed MMORPG style, and where you level up entirely by grinding encounters rather than doing quests, this number falls to 1/8th or even lower.
The S.P.E.C.I.A.L. system has always been flawed. There are dozens of Perks, and less than 1/3 of them were actually good in the original games. In the PvP-centric, min-max environment of FOnline, this number, again, falls to 1/5 or even lower.
The same goes for certain ammo types, Traits, etc. To be fair, it seems that the Skills system is actually better in FOnline. There are very few totally neglected skills, unlike in the original Fallouts.
It's just tough. Fallout and Fallout 2 were old-school, wildly unbalanced games. The only way to re-balance weapons, Perks and such like is for a couple of talented people to set some goals, work hard, try out different stat arrangements, do some testing (maybe on some kind of test server), and develop a new, more balanced, more MMORPG-friendly way of doing these things.
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Updated.
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You forget another point : weapon perk
- Scoped
- Long Range
- Accurate
- ...
All give a little difference ^^
The only way how to force people use "weapon that noone will use ever" is to make cap for total value of equipment of players who are going to participate in king of the hill or going to kill all these kings of the hill. So total value of equipment will be the same regardless of number of people, if there're only few people, they can easily get BAs+"PvP weapons", and if there're more than 5, then they have to share "points" and can get only leather/metal + different useless weapons, or... few of them in BAs+good weapon and everyone else are bluesuiters with BB guns, because of "cap value".
So there will be a choice:
1) to have small group of "special elite forces" good armed, etc;
2) to have alot men, but because of "cap" on equipment value they will wear different cheap crap.
But I have no idea how it can be implemented.
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Might as well mention: I made a thread with some similar complaints about the FAL, but with such an abject lack of interest from the devs I hardly think it's worth bumping. I'll just repeat some common-sense tweaks...
Tommy Gun: Reduce 6 ST to 5 ST required
Grease Gun: Reduce 5 base AP cost to 4 AP
FN FAL: Increase damage to 14-26, increase range to 45, reduce burst from 10 to 5
G11: Make craftable instead of the XL, make 4.7 caseless craftable at Sierra/workbench with tools
Shotguns: Make them not suck shit
That would about cover it.
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Might as well mention: I made a thread with some similar complaints about the FAL, but with such an abject lack of interest from the devs I hardly think it's worth bumping. I'll just repeat some common-sense tweaks...
Tommy Gun: Reduce 6 ST to 5 ST required
Grease Gun: Reduce 5 base AP cost to 4 AP
FN FAL: Increase damage to 14-26, increase range to 45, reduce burst from 10 to 5
G11: Make craftable instead of the XL, make 4.7 caseless craftable at Sierra/workbench with tools
Shotguns: Make them not suck shit
That would about cover it.
Tommy Gun - will remian as a (very) low tier gun.
Grease - This is reasonably decent and a cheap way to level.
FN FAL - The 7.62mm boost didn't go far enough. This is because I read the line from the HPFA thinking it was the FN FAL. I expect 7.62mm will go to a 12/10 damage mod from the 11/10 it is now.
G11 - all tier 2+ guns will begin to be limited by area in their crafting. If g11s were to come in I would expect them to come from the glow, if anywhere :P
Shotguns - Jackhammer is fine. Perhaps it would need a clip boost, but thats all. Combat is fine also. MAybe something to make the CAWs an interesting choice, since its just a worse version of the Jackhammer at the moment.
XL70 and HPFA will be reomved from common use. Could possibly make an appearance in the faction sceanrios with boosted stats.
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G11 - all tier 2+ guns will begin to be limited by area in their crafting. If g11s were to come in I would expect them to come from the glow, if anywhere Tongue
I got this beast in yesterday PvP event. As the ammo doesnt have 'armor piercing' perk, it aint as effective against CA as P90 is with AP 10mm ammo, but hell, that G11 is a MONSTER against metal armors and down. I did bursts of 80 damage off 20 hexes to MA dudes. Nice gun :P
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If it ever were available I imagine it would have some stats tweaking. ;)
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I don't want to start the debate about shotguns again, but I can only disagree when you say they are OK. Right now, a Small Guns user that is not a loser is a sniper. Shotguns need knockback ability (and by then maybe less damages done) to be useful in PvP. Right now in PvP - as it is in Lordus' sign, if I remember well - you see Small Gunners with Snipers, and Big Guns.
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I don't want to start the debate about shotguns again, but I can only disagree when you say they are OK. Right now, a Small Guns user that is not a loser is a sniper. Shotguns need knockback ability (and by then maybe less damages done) to be useful in PvP. Right now in PvP - as it is in Lordus' sign, if I remember well - you see Small Gunners with Snipers, and Big Guns.
and do not forget sneak grenaders too
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No, I'm not talking about grenades as they're not working as intended.
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Fallout's weapon balance was poor at best (lol all AP ammunition/14mm pistol), and the odd change to damage mod isn't going to change that.
If you want to make the FOnline combat system something other than a polished but nostalgic turd, it needs an overhaul. Get feedback from both PvE and PvP players about what they do and they don't use. Then go through each levelling stage:
1-3.
3-6
6-9, etc.
And then work out what guns you want them using and crafting. If something doesn't get used, it's crappy. If everybody's using one gun, then nerf it or improve the others.
I'm not interested in PvP, but they're the best measure of what's good. Their super efficient mentality means that if something isn't good, they'll ditch it. So when they say a gun sucks, they're right.
Specialisation through perks. Pistols, rifles, shotguns and SMGs could all do with related perks and clearly defined roles. Pistols are low damage/low AP. Shotguns are short ranged/brutal. Energy blow through armour.
People should be able to pick a class of weapons (say energy pistols) and be able to use that exclusively, and pull their weight until endgame.
This ties in with the problem that small has over 30 guns. Energy has less than 15. Big guns has about 10.
Van Buren merged all gun skills into Firearms for a reason.
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you know what to nerf? the Plasma nades, they are to overpowerd
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So true as it hurts. This should be the goal from the day 1. But as you can see there were almost no changes concerning weapon balancing what so ever so far. It needs to change...