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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: shanecody on July 11, 2010, 10:47:34 pm
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I have just started playing and I can say that after a couple of hours ? I am greatly disappointed. It seems to me that the game is to hard to get started, who wants to play a game that they can't do anything when they start the game?
Why is there no starting newbie area? or at least some equipment when you start?
I like the fact the the wasteland is tough, but it needs not be so tough that you cant figure out whats going on without dying every five seconds.
even the fallout games are easy enough to start
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I agree it is very hard but once you get yourself a tent and a gun then it's much easier. Its really easy crafting your first 10 mm pistol. You just gotta learn to run from random encounters.
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If you travel as a newbie, set combat to realtime so you can run out of encounters.
Basically this game gets easy the moment you have a tent.
Once you have one, getting other stuff become a lot easier as you can store everything you don't need at that moment in your tent.
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actually, you take TB so you can run from gun mob encounters and to actually fight, but in any case your sequence determines when you get to begin then and your AP will depend on whether or not you can get away from the enemies, anyways, click on my sig and read the 3rd post, it should tell you everything you need to know about starting out with combat.
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Why is there no starting newbie area? or at least some equipment when you start?
starting area: NCR, Junk
eq:
http://www.fo2238.fodev.net/wiki/Talk_to_the_guard_to_get_a_bonus_to_the_Small_Guns_skill
http://www.fo2238.fodev.net/wiki/Bring_junk_for_Emma
http://www.fo2238.fodev.net/wiki/Bring_items_to_Monte_Carlo
http://www.fo2238.fodev.net/wiki/Give_some_beers_to_Aldo
http://www.fo2238.fodev.net/wiki/Get_brahmin_hides_for_Balthas
http://www.fo2238.fodev.net/wiki/Bring_Little_Jesus_Mordino%27s_briefcase_to_Metzger
http://www.fo2238.fodev.net/wiki/Check_Orville_Wright%27s_contacts
and many more
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First. Noob aren't Newb.
Second. If you have at least 8 action points you can kill some creatures like Brahmins, Radscorpions, Cave Rats etc. in HtH combat using Hit & Run tactic in turn based mode. Getting a tent is the priority. I know it's hard to collect 1000 caps to buy Brahmin hides, but you can hunt some of them instead. For a newb, areas between Junktown and Hub is excellent go get some experience. (but not in the desert) when you collect any sellable things, even Radscorpions' tails you can exchange it for some equipment. Of course you can craft almost everything, so think about your future profession.
Third. More people more fun. And it's much easier to get equipment when you're member of faction.
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Not to mention crafting Small Guns or even just the components is so easy. 100 12 gauge shells cost around 950 caps, and that's only from one gathering cool down.
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The game is tough because of skewed feedback by dozens of bored level 21 players and unreliable feedback from GM's that don't even play the game fairly (4 out of 5 that i've seen had 999% DR or whatever, the 1 that didn't was bombed in NCR and much lulz were had)
This game is not noob friendly and the people who play it are not noob friendly. To be successful you have to play 2 - 4 hours a day with several character builds supporting one another. If you don't do this you better get used to being called a little bitch, fag, pussy or any other variation of the theme and repeatedly killed (i got called 'kurwa' today by a nice polak PKer). Items are meaningless, when you start out you won't get to keep any, when you get to level 21 you will complain about having too many (but you won't give them away) the important thing to remember is to never carry them with you.. anywhere.
Hopefully the next update will bring:
1)Tutorial at start (unskippable to discourage alts)
2)Guarded and thief free starting areas, <level 6 only
3)Leveled wastelander encounter lists (you will not be able to encounter another wastelander more then 5 levels above or below your level)
4)Glitch free karma system, no more guards killing for no reason, no karma loss for shooting thieves
5)PKers and unprotected people marked ie "you see NewbieHelper (Newbie Killer) (Unprotected) (Thief)"
6)Choice of turnbased or realtime for every encounter (not just the ones outdoorsman catches)
7)Guards in shops should shoot thieves, why the hell does buster let people steal money from his customers?
8)Guarded HQ mine (guarded by BoS) in a very far away location, maybe by the glow.
9)Keep broken armor on player death (no more bluesuits running around)
It's a beta. So bare with it. Or don't.
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The game is tough because of skewed feedback by dozens of bored level 21 players and unreliable feedback from GM's that don't even play the game fairly (4 out of 5 that i've seen had 999% DR or whatever, the 1 that didn't was bombed in NCR and much lulz were had)
This game is not noob friendly and the people who play it are not noob friendly. To be successful you have to play 2 - 4 hours a day with several character builds supporting one another. If you don't do this you better get used to being called a little bitch, fag, pussy or any other variation of the theme and repeatedly killed (i got called 'kurwa' today by a nice polak PKer). Items are meaningless, when you start out you won't get to keep any, when you get to level 21 you will complain about having too many (but you won't give them away) the important thing to remember is to never carry them with you.. anywhere.
Hopefully the next update will bring:
1)Tutorial at start (unskippable to discourage alts)
2)Guarded and thief free starting areas, <level 6 only
3)Leveled wastelander encounter lists (you will not be able to encounter another wastelander more then 5 levels above or below your level)
4)Glitch free karma system, no more guards killing for no reason, no karma loss for shooting thieves
5)PKers and unprotected people marked ie "you see NewbieHelper (Newbie Killer) (Unprotected) (Thief)"
6)Choice of turnbased or realtime for every encounter (not just the ones outdoorsman catches)
7)Guards in shops should shoot thieves, why the hell does buster let people steal money from his customers?
8)Guarded HQ mine (guarded by BoS) in a very far away location, maybe by the glow.
9)Keep broken armor on player death (no more bluesuits running around)
It's a beta. So bare with it. Or don't.
Can't say anything about the first part, so I won't.
It's a hard game to start with, especially if you start as a loner. To me that's not something that makes it noob unfriendly, it just makes it hard to get started.
Although many people aren't noob friendly, there are many people both in the game and here on the forums who help out new players by giving them advice or items.
You don't need several character builds to support eachother. 1 fighter/crafter build is enough to manage. Sure you'll be killed from time to time and you will kill from time to time. As for the name calling, I can only guess some people are either childish and/or abuse the anonimity of the internet. You might do it too. Grow over it, afterall it's only words.
1. Make it optional, not mandatory.
2. No. These places can't be found in the wasteland, better live with it.
3. Sure, why not expand it to not being able to encounter groups etc? Or simply add god-mode.
4. Agreed. Killing or wounding guards or other players for no reason at all should result in a repuation drop. The reputation drop should be highter for killing/wounding guards than for normal players. You should be able to kill unprotected players without a reputation drop.
5. Unprotected thieves could be marked, but that should only be visible for people with awareness. You can mark PK yourself. If the system doe sit, that would mean most players will be marked as such. Good luck creating a system that can identify deliberate pk, accidental pk, pk out of self defense, etc.
6. We have configuration settings for that. You can choose there.
7. Agreed. It's bad for their business, so they should shoot thieves on the spot when they try to steal. Perhaps a reputation system per town for traders would be useful here.
8. No. It would flud the gameworld with hq minerals and ores. All you need is a taxi friend with a brahmin to get tons of hq material.
9. No. You die, you lose everything.
Perhaps a kind of safety deposit box system at FLC could be an option.
As long as you're level 1-3 and don't have a tent, you can use it to store items.
Off course such a thing costs money, lets say 100 caps just like opening an account, requires a bank account at that FLC and is very limited in the amount and weight of items that can be stored. Lets say to the equivalent of 15 brahmin hides.
The moment you build a tent or reach level 4 the safety deposit box is canceled and any items in it are transfered to the FLC guy.
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wasteland will never be harsh enough, but nerfing the harshness would spoil all the fun
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It's already easy enough if you compare it to previous versions.
It's not the games fault if people don't read manuals or guides before they start to play.
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I agree and disagree.
They DONT have to make the game itself more new-player-friendly. No adding of ridiculous new player zones or new player protection (shield of invulnerability, lol) or anything like it. The gameplay itself must remain as difficult as it is, not get easyer.
BUT, they should make some kind of easy, fast, basic step tutorial in-game. Reading wiki is tiresome and new players should use it only when really needed. Now, theres been that contest of player guides and stuff. The devs could atleast modify the game start so that when a player creates char, a window pops up with opportunity to open link in web browser to the winner guide of that contest. Its true that many people start playing the game witouth even knowing about forum like this and not knowing they can find guides like that.
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I have just started playing and I can say that after a couple of hours ? I am greatly disappointed. It seems to me that the game is to hard to get started, who wants to play a game that they can't do anything when they start the game?
Why is there no starting newbie area? or at least some equipment when you start?
I like the fact the the wasteland is tough, but it needs not be so tough that you cant figure out whats going on without dying every five seconds.
even the fallout games are easy enough to start
Im reading it and dont know... laught at you or just cry about player "will to rise". Game is hard, new players often dies and guess what? sometimes they stay for longer becouse "fuck yea now i got 800 caps in bank and im rich" - for some people it is funny but imo it is that part of gameplay that should be seen. If you are new that mean YOU must learn how to play, not change the game becouse it would fit your desires.
I hate such posts as "its to hard" "i die to often" "i lost my alll day earinigns" - wtf? Each time i see such bullshit i think about tibia or some hack and slash game type... You dont know how to play? ASK PEOPLE IN GAME - and stop dreaming that you will be 1 man ultimate army.
Man im angry...
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stop dreaming that you will be 1 man ultimate army.
Man im angry...
Accidentally, there are a few people who are just that - and I find it EXTREMELY ironic that they're the exact opposite of the wannabies you see around here. Basically, they don't give a flying fuck about the forums, never bitch and moan but always think about improving their game, experiment with new builds or ways of getting stuff. All the successful players I know basically started hard and learned how to do stuff in this game by themselves. Personally, I think that this beginning was the best part of the game - I mean, faction wars are interesting etc., but the experience of being a simple dude trying to make a living and then later on building a top tier gang from scratch is simply the most awesome thing this game has to offer. Taking that harshness away would simply kill all that joy and the atmosphere for me. I mean, back when I started the Hub and the NCR were like the worst ghetto areas of African cities, with people choosing to live elsewhere because of the poverty, killing and theft. It was a truely post-apo experience. Right now NCR feels more like a generic, fairly normal town with some ethnic tensions going on (the occasional suicide bombing or assasination)... some magic was clearly lost in transition.
And I agree, some threads on this forum tend to make a man angry like that ::)
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*facepalm* Why do these threads exist...
I'll say the same thing I said in another thread.
I had to work hard to get where I am and all the other high level characters went through the same shit you're going through. We didn't get handouts from GM's and changes to the game engine. Read the wiki (THIS IS IMPORTANT), ask people where safe travel routes are and just use common sense. As far as starting goods, you start out with enough junk to get a fair amount of caps, you just need to bargain with the right shopkeeper. There are NPC's that will give you weapons, armor, caps, and chems if you do something for them.
The rest is up to you, if you can't figure out something so easy as talking to an NPC, then you will get nowhere.
P.S. The Fallout games are easy to start because you are not playing with other people you are playing with a computer and are automatically incorporated in to the story.
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fuck, finally I understand why the game is so hard.
npc with quest dont have "!" mark above their heads, so finding em (with no "!" on minimap too) becomes impossible for em.
go prewar and die :f
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npc with quest dont have "!" mark above their heads, so finding em (with no "!" on minimap too) becomes impossible for em.
lol, is that a DDO reference?
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The game is tough because of skewed feedback by dozens of bored level 21 players and unreliable feedback from GM's that don't even play the game fairly (4 out of 5 that i've seen had 999% DR or whatever, the 1 that didn't was bombed in NCR and much lulz were had)
This game is not noob friendly and the people who play it are not noob friendly. To be successful you have to play 2 - 4 hours a day with several character builds supporting one another. If you don't do this you better get used to being called a little bitch, fag, pussy or any other variation of the theme and repeatedly killed (i got called 'kurwa' today by a nice polak PKer). Items are meaningless, when you start out you won't get to keep any, when you get to level 21 you will complain about having too many (but you won't give them away) the important thing to remember is to never carry them with you.. anywhere.
Hopefully the next update will bring:
1)Tutorial at start (unskippable to discourage alts)
2)Guarded and thief free starting areas, <level 6 only
3)Leveled wastelander encounter lists (you will not be able to encounter another wastelander more then 5 levels above or below your level)
4)Glitch free karma system, no more guards killing for no reason, no karma loss for shooting thieves
5)PKers and unprotected people marked ie "you see NewbieHelper (Newbie Killer) (Unprotected) (Thief)"
6)Choice of turnbased or realtime for every encounter (not just the ones outdoorsman catches)
7)Guards in shops should shoot thieves, why the hell does buster let people steal money from his customers?
8)Guarded HQ mine (guarded by BoS) in a very far away location, maybe by the glow.
9)Keep broken armor on player death (no more bluesuits running around)
It's a beta. So bare with it. Or don't.
Completely support this. Nothing you said was false.
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The game is tough because of skewed feedback by dozens of bored level 21 players and unreliable feedback from GM's that don't even play the game fairly (4 out of 5 that i've seen had 999% DR or whatever, the 1 that didn't was bombed in NCR and much lulz were had)
This game is not noob friendly and the people who play it are not noob friendly. To be successful you have to play 2 - 4 hours a day with several character builds supporting one another. If you don't do this you better get used to being called a little bitch, fag, pussy or any other variation of the theme and repeatedly killed (i got called 'kurwa' today by a nice polak PKer). Items are meaningless, when you start out you won't get to keep any, when you get to level 21 you will complain about having too many (but you won't give them away) the important thing to remember is to never carry them with you.. anywhere.
Hopefully the next update will bring:
1)Tutorial at start (unskippable to discourage alts)
2)Guarded and thief free starting areas, <level 6 only
3)Leveled wastelander encounter lists (you will not be able to encounter another wastelander more then 5 levels above or below your level)
4)Glitch free karma system, no more guards killing for no reason, no karma loss for shooting thieves
5)PKers and unprotected people marked ie "you see NewbieHelper (Newbie Killer) (Unprotected) (Thief)"
6)Choice of turnbased or realtime for every encounter (not just the ones outdoorsman catches)
7)Guards in shops should shoot thieves, why the hell does buster let people steal money from his customers?
8)Guarded HQ mine (guarded by BoS) in a very far away location, maybe by the glow.
9)Keep broken armor on player death (no more bluesuits running around)
It's a beta. So bare with it. Or don't.
Thoughs would be some cool updates.
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Game is easy enough already, if you can't be bothered with reading the forum, the wiki and finding some friends, life sux for you and this just isn't your game.... Please don't change my game into your carebear handholding WoW lead me by an arrow quest driven safe linear system of a train on rails....
“There’s no point in acting surprised about it. All the planning charts and demolition orders have been on display at your local planning department in Alpha Centauri for 50 of your Earth years, so you’ve had plenty of time to lodge any formal complaint and it’s far too late to start making a fuss about it now. … What do you mean you’ve never been to Alpha Centauri? Oh, for heaven’s sake, mankind, it’s only four light years away, you know. I’m sorry, but if you can’t be bothered to take an interest in local affairs, that’s your own lookout. Energize the demolition beams.”
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Making the first tent is very easy.
1. Make a HtH alt and go to NCR
2. Go to Mira bar, take the quest ==> get 100 caps
3. Read the bulletin board near the sheriff (Westin's hiring job)
4. Go to Westin ranch, take the Brahmin quest
5. Kill the Brahmin for hides, share with your other alt
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Making the first tent is very easy.
1. Make a HtH alt and go to NCR
2. Go to Mira bar, take the quest ==> get 100 caps
3. Read the bulletin board near the sheriff (Westin's hiring job)
4. Go to Westin ranch, take the Brahmin quest
5. Kill the Brahmin for hides, share with your other alt
Wouldn't that require logic and problem solving skills?
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Hopefully the next update will bring:
1)Tutorial at start (unskippable to discourage alts)
2)Guarded and thief free starting areas, <level 6 only
3)Leveled wastelander encounter lists (you will not be able to encounter another wastelander more then 5 levels above or below your level)
4)Glitch free karma system, no more guards killing for no reason, no karma loss for shooting thieves
5)PKers and unprotected people marked ie "you see NewbieHelper (Newbie Killer) (Unprotected) (Thief)"
6)Choice of turnbased or realtime for every encounter (not just the ones outdoorsman catches)
7)Guards in shops should shoot thieves, why the hell does buster let people steal money from his customers?
8)Guarded HQ mine (guarded by BoS) in a very far away location, maybe by the glow.
9)Keep broken armor on player death (no more bluesuits running around)
It's a beta. So bare with it. Or don't.
1) Nope, no such thing as discouraging alts until we have an extremely high level cap, and even with a char being able to do "everything" people would still have 2~3 alts, I'll keep my dozens of alts for now.
2) As much as harassment from bluesuit thief trolls is annoying, you'll just have to deal with it, if you don't want it robbed then don't take it out your tent, stealers gonna steal.
3) So I can't help random newbs or kill junior PKs anymore?
4) You can shoot thieves who get caught by the guards, just leave something heavy in your inventory like 10x uranium and wait until they fail.
5) No.
6) Sounds like too much work for minimal changes, if you're trying to avoid encounters you'll probably just run, if you're hunting you'll die, run or kill the stuff in enc, doesn't really change that much.
7) I'm pretty sure guards in shops have the same AI of common city guards, more work for minimal changes.
8 ) BoS doesn't care about wastelanders, getting HQ from unguarded mines isn't something extremely hard to do either.
9) With the short respawn time we have people would just abuse this to science broken armors for mats, and if you mean armors dissapearing along with their owners then forget about it, looting armors from the enemy is the 2nd funnier feature of PVP.
This game is easy for people who want it to be easy, sure it takes a while at first but most people who listen to other players usually have 1~3 functional alts and maybe even a base on the first month, which is enough to simply advance more and more.
Plenty of newbie helpers and newbie helping places like The Last Light, 10 minutes of research can lead him there to receive advice.
Even though I help lots of noobs, I don't usually care about newbies who won't listen to others and insist on hybrid Mad Max builds, they'll either quit or become ragekids anyway.
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Personally, I think that this beginning was the best part of the game.
Agreed 100%
The thing I had the most trouble with when starting was obtaining a tent. Ten hides seemed like a lot to gather without dying.
I would support making it possible to set up a more primitive campsite with only a fire and a clay pot or something, out of more easily obtainable materials such as 10 wood and a hatchet. No parking spaces, limited area to stash gear, but just enough to stash caps, a few armors, some guns and ammo.
However the truth is that it would little to no effect on the difficulty level of the game, it would still be hard for new players.
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meh, new players are for the most part just spoiled lazy pussies used to having everything spoon fed to them led around on a leash like the sheeple they truly are. Sometimes logic and problem solving skills are all you really need to succeed. This game is one of those rare opportunities where those traits are properly rewarded. Getting your first tent has been discussed on this forum many times. You have many options for example, ask others to help you obtain hides, hunt 1 or 2 hides at a time and stash them, go along with larger hunting parties and sit in the back then take leather jackets to science for hides, etc,. Once you have your first alt up to level 6 or more so much the easier to boot strap your next alt with hides. This game isn't necessarily about brute force and spanking 10 hides out of a herd of cows, sometimes just a little cunning, finesse or a friendly face with "kool story bro" is all that is needed.
Think about it!
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meh, new players are for the most part just spoiled lazy pussies used to having everything spoon fed to them led around on a leash like the sheeple they truly are. Sometimes logic and problem solving skills are all you really need to succeed.
In our case these skills are making alts for everything and using multilogs.