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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Imprezobus on July 05, 2010, 12:28:41 pm
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hello!
most of the people in wasteland have two arms, but only those who use two-handed weapons make use of them.
I find that unfair, as something like weilding two guns at once isnt really strange thing.
Cooperation of both arms is harder than working with one, so it should need more skill (like -30(more?) to weapon skill while wielding two guns).
Current weapon changing system was made for F2, which was turn-based only game, animations of weapon changing during which AP doesnt regen is senseless - as we should have those 2 things ready to use anytime.
For now bigguners/snipers have slots for 4 hands in their EQ window, small gunners have slots only for 2.
My suggestion is to put 2x 2 slots, where you could place items, with two-handed stuff taking two slots there, and possibility to use both slots at once:
1 BG, 1 sniper, 2 smgs etc.
things which need discussion is should grenades count as 1 or 2 hand, because while you throw thing whole your body is working, so shooting from revolver while throwing should result in blowing off your feet :P
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would be awesome with a riot shield and .223 pistol, would kick ass and make a pistol viable in TC
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Definitely yes, sort of JA2 style that I liked. But it will need a lot of work to be done.
Throwing should be considered as 2-handed weapon
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wait fr sdk and try to implement this by urself :)
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well, thats definietly a thing which would need 3d models, but if its possible to implement helmets, then weapons wont be much different
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Definitely yes, sort of JA2 style that I liked. But it will need a lot of work to be done.
Throwing should be considered as 2-handed weapon
It's not a basketball it's a grenade, you only use one hand to throw.
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well, i assume that you have some practice in it, because only thing bout throwing nades i know is what i see on Fallout animations, and there whole body is involved.
anyway throwing 2x grenades is impossible, throwing and shooting at once... maybe close distance, but imagine full-distance try :p
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How is one to aim effectively while dual-wielding?
2 SMGs, maybe, because then you are just spraying.
Aim should be way off in this case.
And you would need 12 AP to simulburst.
Thinking about it, it occurs to me that this would only have a use in RT or for assassinations.
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How is one to aim effectively while dual-wielding?
2 SMGs, maybe, because then you are just spraying.
Aim should be way off in this case.
And you would need 12 AP to simulburst.
Thinking about it, it occurs to me that this would only have a use in RT or for assassinations.
More like 10 AP but yeah agreed with everything else.
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We've probably all played other role-playing games, both paper- and computer-based. And the generally accepted balance for dual-wielding weapons is to basically balance then to have a higher attack rate, but a lower accuracy. This works well in a system like Fallout's combat system, since accuracy is intimately tied to the amount of damage one does. So yeah, you'll hit them more often... but the shots won't hurt as much.
In as much as this is true, making it take more AP to fire each gun would be a bad thing. Really, if you have two of the same gun it would be just as good to make it take LESS AP to fire the weapon, and trading off animations of which gun you're firing each time. With, of course, lower accuracy on each attack, since you can't hold the weapon as steady.
It would also be good if using two weapons automatically removed the "aimed shot" ability, but without giving the Fast Shot bonus automatically.
Two-handed burster builds with Bonus Rate of Fire, Bonus Ranged Damage, and Living Anatomy would become pretty sick... but honestly they should be.
And just in case anyone decides this really IS a good idea, let me be the first to say "ONE HANDED WEAPONS, ONLY!"
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It would also be good if using two weapons automatically removed the "aimed shot" ability, but without giving the Fast Shot bonus automatically.
well, it is right that dualwielding makes aiming harder, but there are people who have such feeling of gun to do so. Maybe It would need such skill modificator, that you couldnt do it for more like... 15 hexes? (-120?)
Those dualwield could be also made easier by making such weapon as "2x revolvers" (P90s, deagles,, plasma pistols etc, but not every 1handedgun). Yeah, it'd remove some of flexibility of chosing 2 different guns, but if we wont add "2x 10mm smg" to game this wouldnt turn that weapon into ultimate 1hex-ncr-assasination machine.
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I think it should allow you to do to simultaneous shots to 2 targets for 5 ap (down to 3ap with brof/fastshot), in tb you can choose both targets and in rt both shots will hit the one target simultaneously. This will give pistols a needed boost and make them a more viable option and add depth to sg builds. Even with tandem burst smgs the total bullets is far less than the 40 the avenger has and it's limited range also dulls its edge and maintains balance.
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I likey. But I dun agree with it costing the same or less AP. Yer doing a tad more complex action, not to mention, if I kept the possibility of making 4 burst each turn, only now with 2 guns, even the meatiest, hardest armored characters would become soup to my eyes. And my firing rate would make Big Guns characters lose all their self-esteem and go hide in their mom's basement. Shoob da whoop.
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I think it should allow you to do to simultaneous shots to 2 targets for 5 ap (down to 3ap with brof/fastshot),
That's exactly why I suggested just having the guns take less AP to fire. That way in turn based you can ALREADY shoot two targets "simultaneously"
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WHOA WHOA WHOA. Wait a minute there. I was thinking only about shooting with two weapons at a time, to a single poor bastard. Ambidextrous shooting to different targets would be quite the thing to do! It should not be oversimplified, not the slightest bit.
Methinks the amount of AP that dual wield attacks should be a mix of the following factors:
- The AP consumption of each weapon and the kind of attack (single, burst).
- Either if there are one or two targets.
- The directions in which such targets are located.
- The distance at which the targets are.
That and the kind of build (FS and BROF dudes), skill level... stuff.
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1. Shooting more than one dude is already possible but is impossible if they are in two completely different places, implementing that you can burst two dudes in two different places would be too much to bother creating.
2. Dual bursts alone would be enough for SMGers.
3. AP consumption should be slightly higher... Like 6-8 APs to at least give minigunners a chance ;D.
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1. Shooting more than one dude is already possible but is impossible if they are in two completely different places, implementing that you can burst two dudes in two different places would be too much to bother creating.
2. Dual bursts alone would be enough for SMGers.
3. AP consumption should be slightly higher... Like 6-8 APs to at least give minigunners a chance ;D.
minigunners shoot more bullets, for more damage at higher range. what are you talking about?
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No need for such weird things.
It justs looks ridicolous with a guy having two pistols, SMGs etc. in hands.
You wouldn't even hit a single target. And just because one thing looks "cool" or "badass" it's no reason to invest huge time for implementing it.
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Agree with surf.
It's pretty much liek this
(http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/1184/633618011146914582dualw.jpg) (http://img716.imageshack.us/i/633618011146914582dualw.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
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I guess, in such mode or perk one would need to have
2 weapons in 2 slots, the same ones,
the burst and single shot are using 2x normal attack AP+1 per attack = if its 3AP with p90 it would be 7 but count the double dmg ::)
maybe -10 or -5 to maximum hit chance, it has to have some drawbacks as well, I guess smallgunners should be able to dual wield since they're quite useless in TC
in TBC you would be able to hit one target for double the damage but still 2x normal attack AP+1 per attack
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compare the AP's to minigun, and what you've just said is bullshit :)
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too true imprezo, what I would propose is that most SG burst weapons would empty their entire mags with bursts because they're far easier tomcontrol than a support weapon or a minigun, or if you would nerf the minigun I'd say it should spew out 25 slugs per spray attempt.
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dont say bout nerfing the miniguns, theyve been nerfed too much already, Id say that they would welcome a buff :>
dual wield isnt bout making SG minigun-alike, its brand new class with own pros and cons
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Now, Surf's emphasis on the matter about it being just badass looking seems quite right. It is a thing more likely to happen in them movies than in real life, yes. But then again, it is an action every human with it's entire set of limbs can perform. And if we're not considering to make the dual weild our new shining hope to balance SGs with BGs, then we'd at least need to consider increasing SGs damage, or SOMETHING. All in all, I'd still give a +1 to dual wield.
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Hah Again SG vs BG balance - THERE CAN"T BE ANY BALANCE BETWEEN BG / SG
People just listen :
BG are more epensive - shoot more ammo - are better
SG are not so much expensive - shoot small amount of ammo - but their accurracy is good (range should be better)
One chance to balance things - is : destroying buffouts/jets or any other Chemicals .
Im for dual wielding - but again it wont be so good - We should make MORE STRENGTH for minigun or any other BG Weapons - they re not like easy to take in hands - or make BG walking (all pvpers will split on me and want to kick my ass now) not running !
Only one chance in Sg got Sniper rifle - p90 for caravan pk - Pancor Jackhammer too - pk caravan :).
Peace!
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The way I run my Pen and Paper Fallout game is that a shot with the offhand costs an extra AP (targeted off hand 2 extra AP).
Ambidexterous drops the offhand to 0 extra AP cost (targeted cost moves to 1 AP).
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I really like the idea, but whether the time spent implementing it would be worth it... I´m not too sure about that.
I do think we need a little more "diversity" but would being able to use 2 guns really change things that much?