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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Admiral Zombie on June 21, 2010, 11:28:39 pm
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I did this a while back, but it unfortunately did not gain the attention I had hoped for (and I also kind of neglected it myself, and probably was hoping for too much with certain ideas)
To me perks and traits should be at the top of the list of things to balance. While there are problems with the differences in weapon power, it is a small enough difference in power that the game can be played relatively evenly between the various types. However what annoys me most is the limited options in which perks/traits to choose from if I want to be of use or actually survive the wasteland
Anyways...
Prenote:
Solar was talking about in the grenades thread the idea of fast shot will no longer working in situations where aimed shots don't make a difference (IE, since with grenades and bursting you do not perform fast shots, then you should not receive the bonus)
While skeptical, I have to agree with that sentiment. Traits should be things that provide both benefits and negative effects, regardless of your build. Not much else to say there, so i'll leave the discussion at that and wait for other's opinions. I'll mainly keep all of my trait suggestions formatted in such a way that they always provide a downside
* denotes the suggested parts, all or only some of which could be used. All numbers given are up to debate at a later time.
Trait Suggestions
Fast Metabolism
Current: Your healing rate is increased, but less resistant to poison and radiation
* Weakness lasts half as long
* Those using FA on you have half cooldown.
* More easily crippled however (increased crits against you? Not sure)
Bruiser
Current: +2 str, -2AP
* +2 or 4HP per level, -1 or 2AP
* Inverse of small frame (-1AG, +carrying capacity)
Kamikaze
Current: -AC given from agility, +5sequence
* +1 or 2AP,
* -DR (can go into negatives)
Heavy Handed
Current: +4 Damage to "melee damage" -30% crit table (uncertain, according to fallout wiki thats what it is)
*
Fast shot
Current: -1 AP to nearly all forms of attacks, cannot perform aimed shots, ever
* only -1 (or 2?)ap to attacks that can be aimed (as solar suggested). However attacks can hit any body part (unlike current, where it only hits the torso when doing nonaimed shots). Different body parts are more likely to be selected (Torso: 30%, each arm 15%, each leg 10%, head 15%, eyes 5%) Numbers are up for change obviously. This way fast shot is of some use still
Chem Reliant
Current: More likely to be addicted, but addiction lasts half as long
* Chem effects last twice as long,
* chem addiction can become permanent for all chems
* twice the negative debuffs and/or twice duration of addiction
Chem Resistant
Current: Chem effects have half duration, but addiction is reduced by 50%
* Chems have 1/4 of the original duration (So a 1 minute drug becomes 15seconds)
* no chance of addiction (including jet?)
I'm not sure how well balanced these are, but all of the numbers are up for debate, is the idea that matters. I'm trying to keep things simple. I'll make a separate post after this one for perk suggestions.
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Cautious Nature
Current: +3 to PE when determining placement in encounters
Changes
* +3-4 PE to view range when using town preview, (capable of seeing through objects?)
* Should the +3 go beyond the 10PE limit? Probably...
* Possibly lets you see through objects if it is within 25% of your FoV
Faster healing
Current: +2 to Healing Rate, 3 ranks
Changes
* Cooldown for FA reduced by 10% per rank
* Weakness you inflict on others/yourself is shortened by 50% (only 1 rank)
Heave Ho!
Current: +2ST when determing range, 3 ranks, cannot exceed maximum range (achieved at 5ST)
Changes
* Allow it to exceed the 5ST maximum range, as unless you only have 1-2ST then getting multiple ranks is pointless, and even then most people would never have less than 4ST for throwing builds
Healer
Current: +4-10HP when using FA
Changes
* Increase requirements (level 18 perk?), make it extremely useful for more dedicated healer characters
* Rather than getting an FA cooldown, you instead inflict weakness on all of your healed targets. This lets you heal different people quickly (an entire group very quickly in fact) but you cannot continuously heal one target.
Educated
Current: +2skill points per level
Changes
* Simply buff it a little to +3 or +4. Compared to other perks this hardly useful i believe with only +2
Adrenaline Rush
Current: +1ST when below 50%
Changes
* +crit chance while below 50%
* +DR while below 50% (No more than 10%)
* Possibly increasing as the situation gets worse (such as 5% additional whatever while below 50%hp, and then another +5-10% of whatever while below 25%hp for a total of 10-15% of whatever)
* Note: I suggest the 5-15%DR version. With the crit option people could presumably sneak camp with an extra 15% crit chance while at such a low hp. Maybe this isn't as bad as I suspect, but should be considered)
Thats all i have for now. It is important to remember that the suggested ideas aren't necessarily all meant to go together, but simply only 1-2 of the ideas (The adrenaline rush would be very powerful with both the +crit and DR, but the idea is to use only one or the other)
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All though i cannot comment on all of them for i have never used the following need to be changed as suggested:
Edcuated, Kamikaze, Fast metabolism, Fast shot, Chem Reliant, Chem Resistant.
In my opinion of course. All those get a +1 from me.
btw kamikaze still needs a little + to sequence.
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Okay first thing, Chem resistant will be exploitable.
Remember drugs dont stop working in TB, so a person can take a drug enter a caravan encounter and enjoy the effect the whole encounter.
fast shot should remain the same, but only work for single shot mode from a weapon.
(However, I think BG has been nerfed enough already, I think snipers are a bit OP, but thats just my opinion)
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Okay first thing, Chem resistant will be exploitable.
Remember drugs dont stop working in TB, so a person can take a drug enter a caravan encounter and enjoy the effect the whole encounter.
fast shot should remain the same, but only work for single shot mode from a weapon.
(However, I think BG has been nerfed enough already, I think snipers are a bit OP, but thats just my opinion)
WORK ONLY FOR SINGLE SHOT WTF!?!?!?! :o Then what will be teh friggin point of that damn perk??? :-X
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WORK ONLY FOR SINGLE SHOT WTF!?!?!?! :o Then what will be teh friggin point of that damn perk??? :-X
To increase DPS at the expense of the ability to aim.
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it's the trait, fast shot, the free perk for bigginers, but i assume you already know that, since you referred to it a a perk, and I assume you know BRoF
Edit, there, fixed, yeez, I'm just a bit tired, three nights in a row without sleep, and a shitload of events I have to partake in during the day, somehow I thought it wcould be a bit fun to cause some digital mayhem, last time I caused some real mayhem was when I was fucking with explosives in the woods, all I can share with you about that is : Timberrrr!
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it's the trait, fast show, the free perk for bigginers, but i assume you already know that, since you referred to it a a perk, and I assume you know BRoF
What the hell is fast show :P....
To increase DPS at the expense of the ability to aim.
Define what you just said please...
Bursters almost "Neva" use single shot, not even on weak Npcs or players so this will just make the "TRAIT" worthless.
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http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0108771/
Bursters almost "Neva" use single shot, not even on weak Npcs or players so this will just make the "TRAIT" worthless.
Eh?
A single shot weapon could fire without aiming at -1 AP. If a pistol has 4 AP to fire it would go to 3 AP to fire - thereby gaining 33% Damage Per Second.
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BG's already cost 7 ap to fire, fast shot helps reduce that but its set to a lot to begin with because everyone takes that trait.
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No, they are still fantastic DPS without fast shot. No need for a trait that has nothing to add to a weapon other than a pure + which means any char wanting to use that weapon must take it. If Avengers need to be AP 6 then they can be made that way without using fast shot (they don't)
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No, they are still fantastic DPS without fast shot. No need for a trait that has nothing to add to a weapon other than a pure + which means any char wanting to use that weapon must take it. If Avengers need to be AP 6 then they can be made that way without using fast shot (they don't)
Well then only 10 ap + 2x action boys will ever be able to get off more than one shot where ew/sg can do 5-6.
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Heres a REALLY simple and I think very good suggestion for traits:
Get rid of Sex Appeal. Put in Gifted.
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Heres a REALLY simple and I think very good suggestion for traits:
Get rid of Sex Appeal. Put in Gifted.
+1 simple.
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God I wish gifted was in game, but I can understand why it isn't
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God I wish gifted was in game, but I can understand why it isn't
Because you don't care about all skills % you lost? Because some characters don't need science, repair, gambling, outdoorsman, barter, speech, throwing, SG and BG/SG and/BG and EW, melee, unarmed, sneak, lockpick, steal and traps. So you don't care if you'll lose some % of these skills and you can always increase your IN on some from these 7 spare points to remove SP/level drawback, because you getting only on 5 SP less it's 2.5 IN, so make 9 IN instead of 6, so it's 4 additional SPECIAL points for you, all you need is a weapon skill and doc/fa (or any other variations), anyway I don't think your character will use atleast 1/4 of all skills, that means you lose nothing, yes, you'll punch with less CtH, your speech will suck, oh noes, gambling isn't good too, damn low barter, no throwing (if you're not thrower build), damn you can't lockpick normally and steal things at NCR. Gifted is an excellent and must have "trait" for anyone who don't want to use more than 3-4 skills from all the skill list.
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Because Gifted is imba and would be a must-have for everyone, which lowers the interest of the game.
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Gifted will never be readded, don't derail the topic in a pointless direction.
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I suggest a new trait
expert uninvited guest
you don't count for the number of followers
so my poor cha1 char would have a tent follower to carry to the glow sometimes
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I suggest a new trait
expert uninvited guest
you don't count for the number of followers
so my poor cha1 char would have a tent follower to carry to the glow sometimes
And what would the downside be?
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And what would the downside be?
You automatically saying "Let's go to the Glow!" when someones enters your party.
And automatically going there and can't change direction until he leaves your party or you kick him yourself.
Also every 5 seconds you'll automatically say "We're going to the Glow!".
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Fast Metabolism
Current: Your healing rate is increased, but less resistant to poison and radiation
* Weakness lasts half as long
* Those using FA on you have half cooldown.
* More easily crippled however (increased crits against you? Not sure)
I think weakening a mate is not a solution, because if the guy is crippled just after you healed him, it'll get harder to doctor him up.
In my opinion it would be better if FA cooldown was "inverted" it means that you dont have FA cooldown by using your skill but by receiving a FA.
That way people will start looking for real medic oriented chars, because they do not want to have 7min FA cooldown instead of 1 min.
The bad point is probably that bad guyz will start FA you before attacking just so that you cant FA yourself after or during the next fight.
Maybe an option would be to pop-up a window asking te player if he agrees receiving first aid from someone.
Bruiser
Current: +2 str, -2AP
* +2 or 4HP per level, -1 or 2AP
* Inverse of small frame (-1AG, +carrying capacity)
+1 for the first * (4hp).
So that people can start making "tankers".
Kamikaze
Current: -AC given from agility, +5sequence
* +1 or 2AP,
* -DR (can go into negatives)
I dont like per-turn feature on Fonline. Because it makes some perks total useless during realtime fights. It kinda divides the game.
I would be happy if per-turn was just eradicated from Fonline and the devs start making all perks focus on realtime fight.
So I cant agreed with "+5 sequence" since it is per turn oriented.
As you suggested, maybe a way to improve that trait would be it to add AP (+2 is fine).
Heave Ho!
Current: +2ST when determing range, 3 ranks, cannot exceed maximum range (achieved at 5ST)
Changes
* Allow it to exceed the 5ST maximum range, as unless you only have 1-2ST then getting multiple ranks is pointless, and even then most people would never have less than 4ST for throwing builds
Agreed. Make it usefull.
Adrenaline Rush
Current: +1ST when below 50%
Changes
* +crit chance while below 50%
* +DR while below 50% (No more than 10%)
* Possibly increasing as the situation gets worse (such as 5% additional whatever while below 50%hp, and then another +5-10% of whatever while below 25%hp for a total of 10-15% of whatever)
* Note: I suggest the 5-15%DR version. With the crit option people could presumably sneak camp with an extra 15% crit chance while at such a low hp. Maybe this isn't as bad as I suspect, but should be considered)
If you ask me, critics are for snipers. And snipers dont have HP. They fire someone before they are spotted, cause when they are, they dont need more than a shot to get down. In the case it didnt take a shot to down one sniper, I think the guy doesnt want "critics" but DR or AC.
+ Snipers already have a really decent critics %.
With that said im trying to find out for who "your" perk could possibly suit... And I dont find anyone...
It coudl be nice if it brings new perspectives, people will start making new kind of chars, but I dont think its the case.
My contributions:
- Chirurgist (new perk):
- Description: while using the good tools you sure dont fail at patching up a a thing or two.
- Conditions:
> lvl 18
> 8 int
>160% First aid
>160% in doctor
- Effects: never fail at healing a crippled members. You need a medikit on you to make use of that perk.
// In the same time, to make a medic char oriented reallyvaluable it could be interesting to improve doctor and FA cooldown while nerving those two a lil bit as well). //
Looter
> 8 STR
> 90% outdoorsman
> lvl 15
- Description: you're angry for carrying up things on your back, you can't stand all those benefits sitting on the ground.
- Effects: you lower the cooldown by twice while prospecting (mining, looting fruits, woods etc).
Two hander
> 7 agi
> 5 str
(maybe) >one-handed affinity trait
- Description: one handed weapons have no secret for you, you can handle one in each hand.
(maybe) but you cannot aiming.
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These are terrible suggestions, yes traits should be reworked but by someone who understands how they are balanced.
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These are terrible suggestions, yes traits should be reworked but by someone who understands how they are balanced.
Then share your wisdom of perfect balance instead of just bitch around how terrible thing XY is. ::)
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Then share your wisdom of perfect balance instead of just bitch around how terrible thing XY is. ::)
I will when I have time, way too many people posting way too much atm for me to respond to everything.
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http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0108771/
Eh?
A single shot weapon could fire without aiming at -1 AP. If a pistol has 4 AP to fire it would go to 3 AP to fire - thereby gaining 33% Damage Per Second.
exactly, add brof to that, and give that person a 14mm pistol and you've got a real killer.
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great for beating the shit out of psycho tough guys in BA
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Do i understand correctly that you mean, Fast Shot should not affect bursting? What about all those poor SMG players? That would kill a whole SMG "class" i believe.
I think the BROF covers the sniper support there. I mean, you need around 3 bursts (at medium distance) from a SMG when a sniper needs one or two (not counting the ability to cripple chance). The AP costs are quite alike there, not?
It is true however, that it is only a + trait for big gunners, however, if the big gunners are overpowered you think maybe better to make big gun burst more costly instead. Having in mind though how much ammo a big gun burst takes, then it makes up for 1 sniper bullet i think.
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I don't think that would be the case. SMG's would be still pretty decent.
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I don't think that would be the case. SMG's would be still pretty decent.
as is you can do like 5 smg bursts a turn.
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as is you can do like 5 smg bursts a turn.
on drugs.
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on drugs.
you can do 4 without drugs
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you can do 4 without drugs
:/ really? I can only do 3 bursts with my powerbuild.... Smallguns. hmm.
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:/ really? I can only do 3 bursts with my powerbuild.... Smallguns. hmm.
Waste 2 perks on Action boys, but better eat jet of couse, or... make x2 Action boys AND eat jet.
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i think gifted should be added in game if has a little nerf, like +3/4 special points (ST, EN, AG /PE), instead of 7.
For fast shoot, im with removing the -ap for non-single shoots. The random chance to hit body parts maybe can make a gunslinger build viable, and funny.
and for grenadiers can be a perk that reduce the ap cost. So still will be 2ap granadiers.
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i think gifted should be added in game if has a little nerf, like +3/4 special points (ST, EN, AG /PE), instead of 7.
For fast shoot, im with removing the -ap for non-single shoots. The random chance to hit body parts maybe can make a gunslinger build viable, and funny.
and for grenadiers can be a perk that reduce the ap cost. So still will be 2ap granadiers.
2 ap grenades are one of the biggest complaints and there is no random body parts hit from unaimed shots anymore.
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I intended this thread to be about balancing the existing perks/traits. Why should we go about adding new perks entirely if the current ones are broken as it is?
Roacher mentioned that my suggestions are "terrible" then says too many people posting as an excuse for why he doesn't contribute and simply complains. Time to complain but not contribute? Please don't do that, at least take the fucking time to point out how its imbalanced. .
As far as balance does go, the drug ones are the main culprits i imagine, but all of the suggested trait changes have easy to change numbers (if +4hp is too much then +2 or +3 would be fine probably. The idea is less AP, but more HP). As i stated, The numbers are up for change for balance, its the idea that matters.
Anyways I would argue that having 2-3 traits that are always chosen is far worse than 5-6 being far better than the rest (Fast shot and small frame are FAR better than the rest, and then the only other ones that typically see any use might be finesse and one hander. I wouldn't count skilled since its one of those traits people pick up only for crafter classes)
And can we please stop discussing solely the brof + fast shot changes, i was hoping to consider more than just those two...
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actually, a widely used trait is also good natured, since it has no real drawbacks if you are a smallgunner
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Its nice, but i've always seen it as the trait you pick up when your other 2 aren't already being taken. Compared to small frame and fast shot in terms of usefulness it doesn't compare. I was mainly trying to point out that although some trait suggestions are powerful (which can be solved with number changing) as it is now 2-3 traits really outshine the rest, and that it is much better to have 5-6 that are far better than the rest, than it is to only have 2-3 that are better. More than anything I just want diversity in builds.
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I agree with Sloul.
The perks he suggested are good but i think the name for the perk ''Two hander'' needs a new, better name like commando(like in Fallout 3) or Experienced soldier
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I agree with Sloul.
The perks he suggested are good but i think the name for the perk ''Two hander'' needs a new, better name like commando(like in Fallout 3) or Experienced soldier
Commandos can use any kind of weapon so saying they only use two handed weapons is illogical...
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Commandos can use any kind of weapon so saying they only use two handed weapons is illogical...
Exacly. Commandos should be able to use any kind of weapon but they would wield better 2 handed weapons without having any penalties while using single handed weapons. i think the requirements should be:
100% ( EW,BG or SG)
AG- 7/8
ST-5/6
Level - 8/12