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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Aricvomit on May 09, 2010, 12:38:14 am

Title: Make merchants unkillable
Post by: Aricvomit on May 09, 2010, 12:38:14 am
This is a pretty simple suggestion, make merchants unkillable. killing merchants serves no purpose beyond pure dickery and douchebagerry. and to all the people that are gonna defend being able to kill merchants i just ask what is the point?
Title: Re: Make merchants unkillable
Post by: Roachor on May 09, 2010, 12:50:34 am
Agreed, it just stop players from being able to trade.
Title: Re: Make merchants unkillable
Post by: vedaras on May 09, 2010, 01:46:50 am
I dont like the suggestion, douchebaggery is part of this game and the game is more interesting  because of it. And there are no irreplaceable mercs, just go to the one in another town :>
Title: Re: Make merchants unkillable
Post by: Surf on May 09, 2010, 01:53:26 am
I wouldn't say unkillable, but (as most of them are) unlootable. All NPC's should be unlootable, so that Caravan farming, or even quest giver-farming will stop.
Title: Re: Make merchants unkillable
Post by: Crazy on May 09, 2010, 01:59:22 am
I wouldn't say unkillable, but (as most of them are) unlootable. All NPC's should be unlootable, so that Caravan farming, or even quest giver-farming will stop.


Farming is the very last way to obtain something or make caps with fun (I had very good moments with farm in group). It would be very very bad if that totally disappear, since it's already nerf by pool encounter and karma.
Not everyone love crafting.
Title: Re: Make merchants unkillable
Post by: Surf on May 09, 2010, 02:05:35 am

Not everyone love crafting.

But this, + barter system is the way to go. Devs want to create a player driven economy and no encounters to be farmed over and over again to gain a bit of equipment.
Title: Re: Make merchants unkillable
Post by: Roachor on May 09, 2010, 02:17:07 am
I wouldn't say unkillable, but (as most of them are) unlootable. All NPC's should be unlootable, so that Caravan farming, or even quest giver-farming will stop.


You can't take farming out of an mmo, it's what people like to do. Crafting is boring as hell and requires an alt to do efficiently, and due to the current system is pretty much necessary.
Title: Re: Make merchants unkillable
Post by: Surf on May 09, 2010, 02:25:51 am
and due to the current system is pretty much necessary.

I never killed a caravan guy/gal and still was able to fight or arm myself, with stuff which I or a gang member produced.
Farming is just quicker, people want the best stuff, as quick and as easy as they can.
Title: Re: Make merchants unkillable
Post by: Aricvomit on May 09, 2010, 02:33:40 am
Ok since people dont seem to get the idea heres the issue, killing a merchant serves NO purpose and if your only doing it to be a dick then you honestly shouldnt be playing the game, go maim puppies or do whatever it is sadistic people do. and another thing douchebaggery isnt a part of the game, its the people.
if the devs intended for you to go around slaughtering quest npc's and merchants then why not have them drop rewards? hint hint, because its not intended.
the game is an unfinished beta and since this is the case many things that should be in place to protect the economy and gameplay arent in place, a game with no rules isnt a game, its life, if you go around fucking with people in real life like that there are consequences and repercussions, unfortunately people can get away with just about anything without having a shitstorm rain down upon them.
basically having killable merchants gives griefers a chance to basically tank the player crafting economy (which doesent affect them in the slightest becuase they're either 1chr pvp builds or suicide bombers) so they dont give a shit.
the easiest fix for this is to make merchants unkillable, since they happen to be pretty much the sole source of caps in game it doesent make sense to let them just die and have their inventory deleted, that destroys the economy,
take a lesson from the banking system of the real world, in almost every case what a bank robber stole was less then the cost of what it took to catch him, so in actuallity you arent protecting the goods so much as the system, because once the system fails other things will start to fail along with it.

I dont like the suggestion, douchebaggery is part of this game and the game is more interesting  because of it. And there are no irreplaceable mercs, just go to the one in another town :>

oh and the game isnt made more interesting by people abusing things to grief other players and if thats honestly what you think i believe you may need to see a therapist.
Title: Re: Make merchants unkillable
Post by: Swinglinered on May 09, 2010, 03:01:57 am
Let's make it just like every other MMO, filled with invisible walls and invulnerable entities, etc.

Title: Re: Make merchants unkillable
Post by: Crazy on May 09, 2010, 03:28:54 am
But this, + barter system is the way to go. Devs want to create a player driven economy and no encounters to be farmed over and over again to gain a bit of equipment.

I know some guys (the Orphans) who try to craft to make trade. They have almost give up because they have to mine and craft like an industry during 90% of their time, to have a 10 min contact with an other player who gonna give them few caps.
If you want that people trade, increase x10 the amount produced for the same gathering/timeouts, and finally, player will produce more than just they need themself and finally have something to trade without spending his life on crafting (and if you help the specialization foe by add lvl 15 requirement for the 3rd profession lvl, someone who produce only armors but enough for him AND to trade for the rest of what he need.)
And anyway, actually, farm don't allow you to obtain any high tier stuff in sufficient amount/rentability.
Title: Re: Make merchants unkillable
Post by: solid snake on May 09, 2010, 04:15:22 am

the easiest fix for this is to make merchants unkillable, since they happen to be pretty much the sole source of caps in game it doesent make sense to let them just die and have their inventory deleted, that destroys the economy,
take a lesson from the banking system of the real world, in almost every case what a bank robber stole was less then the cost of what it took to catch him, so in actuallity you arent protecting the goods so much as the system, because once the system fails other things will start to fail along with it.

it indeed does destroy the economy.
they spend more resources to catch the bank robber than what the robber stole to create state control and to drive fear in all who want to rob banks. they want everyone to think you will get caught. you will never really hear of people that actually get away with robbing a bank due to this state control. if everyone robbed banks where would the economy be???
in this game we can't really have fear being driven into players. because when your rep is fucked or you die or are jailed, you respawn or create a new character. +1 to this suggestion.
Title: Re: Make merchants unkillable
Post by: JustGreat on May 09, 2010, 04:16:50 am
This is a pretty simple suggestion, make players unkillable. killing players serves no purpose beyond pure dickery and douchebagerry. and to all the people that are gonna defend being able to kill players i just ask what is the point?
Title: Re: Make merchants unkillable
Post by: Swinglinered on May 09, 2010, 05:50:12 am
I know some guys (the Orphans) who try to craft to make trade. They have almost give up because they have to mine and craft like an industry during 90% of their time, to have a 10 min contact with an other player who gonna give them few caps.
If you want that people trade, increase x10 the amount produced for the same gathering/timeouts, and finally, player will produce more than just they need themself and finally have something to trade without spending his life on crafting (and if you help the specialization foe by add lvl 15 requirement for the 3rd profession lvl, someone who produce only armors but enough for him AND to trade for the rest of what he need.)
And anyway, actually, farm don't allow you to obtain any high tier stuff in sufficient amount/rentability.

I know this game isn't intended to be very realistic, but theme park "You must be this tall to ride the X" requirements are just too much.

Also, items are supposed to be rare and difficult to obtain: it's a wasteland.

A supply/demand modeling system would be nice.
Title: Re: Make merchants unkillable
Post by: Slackster on May 09, 2010, 08:29:15 am
This is a pretty simple suggestion, make players unkillable. killing players serves no purpose beyond pure dickery and douchebagerry. and to all the people that are gonna defend being able to kill players i just ask what is the point?

the point behind killing players is pvp and loot, comparing killing merchants for no reward beyond griefing players is dickery, pure and simple. seriously there is no good defense for this, your comparing apples and elephants.
Title: Re: Make merchants unkillable
Post by: avv on May 09, 2010, 08:39:22 am
Agreed with op. Killing a respawning npc doesn't make any sense. Why was he killed if he just respawns again? Pointless action in terms of causality but causes minor annoyance as side effect.
Title: Re: Make merchants unkillable
Post by: Josefista on May 09, 2010, 10:36:37 am
I wouldn't say unkillable, but (as most of them are) unlootable. All NPC's should be unlootable, so that Caravan farming, or even quest giver-farming will stop.


yea and all of us will just need to make next alts and we will craft with happiness until our deaths :P
Title: Re: Make merchants unkillable
Post by: Mr Feltzer on May 09, 2010, 10:43:21 am
No Fucking Way, Dont Make em Unkillable, or Unlootable, Its good. If you wanna kill em for good loot, You need to be able to fight good loot. The System Works.

EDIT: Sorry, Dint Fully Understand the "Merchant" Part, Thought he ment caravaners. So I Agree. ^^
Title: Re: Make merchants unkillable
Post by: Slackster on May 09, 2010, 10:47:31 am
feltzer, merchants are already unlootable, this conversation isnt about wasteland encounters its about merchants in cities, please read the subject matter.
Title: Re: Make merchants unkillable
Post by: RavenousRat on May 09, 2010, 11:24:04 am
basically having killable merchants gives griefers a chance to basically tank the player crafting economy (which doesent affect them in the slightest becuase they're either 1chr pvp builds or suicide bombers) so they dont give a shit.
I have 3 CH.
I'm not power build.
I don't have suicidal bomber alt anymore.
I'm crafter.
I doing alot caps everyday with my magic cartriges.
So I trading.

But... I killing Sha Enin, banker and other traders at NCR, yes. Because I never liked this city, even at Fallout 2. I doing it only for fun, to come to NCR later and say "Who killed Sha Enin??!?!?!", "And a banker??!!", "And Buster??!!?!", "Who's that bastard??", it's fun really, you should to try.
Btw going to NCR for trade... you should thank me that I killing traders there, so you'll save your stuff.
You have more chance survive if you come to New Reno with 60 HP and BA, then shout there "HEY! I HAVE ONLY 60 HP AND BA!!!!11 KILL ME!!!", then run over all locations at New Reno, you'll have more % to not die, then if you come to NCR and won't shout anything, just come there... Sometimes you can die there even without any items...
Title: Re: Make merchants unkillable
Post by: Ombra on May 09, 2010, 12:52:21 pm
Ok since people dont seem to get the idea heres the issue, killing a merchant serves NO purpose and if your only doing it to be a dick then you honestly shouldnt be playing the game, go maim puppies or do whatever it is sadistic people do.

C'mon Reve, I'm against shop-killing and also against "being a dick" (I play as defender of the weak/good guy, in fact) but you are not playing the usual "Hello Kitty online", and dickhead are present in every game as well as do "bad actions".

Nonetheless, kill shoppers and bankers can have some explanation too, other than being a dickhead:
- You are a rival of the city when you kill the shopper/banker NPC, so you want to do some damage (harrass) to the city.
- You have a project against economy. We did something like that in another MMORPG, similar to "Fight club" movie style.


I wouldn't say unkillable, but (as most of them are) unlootable. All NPC's should be unlootable, so that Caravan farming, or even quest giver-farming will stop.

Nonsense. Loot and farm is a part of every MMORPG, and we don't want to be a fucking craft-machine, since it's boring and slow as hell.
Title: Re: Make merchants unkillable
Post by: Sius on May 09, 2010, 01:08:08 pm
Afaik important NPC are unlootable, unstealable and killing them gives you nothing. But it certainly is a way how to raid towns and act like bad guys. I would certainly let everyone killable. If you can't defend them then be ready to trade only in inner city...
Title: Re: Make merchants unkillable
Post by: Nice_Boat on May 09, 2010, 05:11:33 pm
Just no. That'd be a real immersion killer. Sius more or less got it right.
Title: Re: Make merchants unkillable
Post by: avv on May 09, 2010, 06:14:14 pm
Afaik important NPC are unlootable, unstealable and killing them gives you nothing. But it certainly is a way how to raid towns and act like bad guys. I would certainly let everyone killable. If you can't defend them then be ready to trade only in inner city...

But what's the point of killing them if you get killed right after it? Dead guys aren't bad or good, they are just dead. Basically everything in the game should have a purpose, if killing some merchant was part of a quest and there was a way to get away with it alive then it would be completely acceptable.
Title: Re: Make merchants unkillable
Post by: GroeneAppel on May 09, 2010, 06:28:20 pm
But what's the point of killing them if you get killed right after it? Dead guys aren't bad or good, they are just dead. Basically everything in the game should have a purpose, if killing some merchant was part of a quest and there was a way to get away with it alive then it would be completely acceptable.

There is the problem. All cities should be raidable, just very hard. In such a case of a raid, killing merchants sounds logical. It cripples the city.
But a random suicidal attack on a merchant, THAT is the problem. The best method to fix this? give them armor and some extra hp, problem solved. (oh yes, give them a high healing rate aswell)
Title: Re: Make merchants unkillable
Post by: Sius on May 09, 2010, 06:38:55 pm
It does not have any purpose YET. But in future I can see those raiders killing innocent just to blackmain sheriff and gain loot etc. Anyway making them godlike is not a solution. Make them survive suicidal bombers but when it comes to city raid then they should still die as any other NPC in the city.
Title: Re: Make merchants unkillable
Post by: Aricvomit on May 10, 2010, 12:27:28 am
would someone explain to me why making them unkillable isnt the solution instead of just saying it isnt. and to people who thinks that this would kill immersion thats just a flimsy excuse, in all actuality immersion is dead the minute the merchant comes back to life or you see some go LOL NOOB!!!111 or someone exploits the game etc etc, so stop trying to defend another way to grief players.
Title: Re: Make merchants unkillable
Post by: Sius on May 10, 2010, 02:02:29 am
would someone explain to me why making them unkillable isnt the solution instead of just saying it isnt. and to people who thinks that this would kill immersion thats just a flimsy excuse, in all actuality immersion is dead the minute the merchant comes back to life or you see some go LOL NOOB!!!111 or someone exploits the game etc etc, so stop trying to defend another way to grief players.

Some people just want to see the world burn. Raiders are part of them. If they get into the city, they raid, kill and rape everything that moves just to loot or just because they enjoy it. If you don't like it, fight against it by regular means. Don't ask others to do the job, especially if it should be the divinity act like making vendors unkillable. As I said they should be able to survive bombers and heal themselves fast from injuries. But making them completely unkillable is nonsence. If you make vendors unkillable you can make guards too, because you gain nothing from killing them and its pure trolling from your point of view so they should be little ingame NPC gods. Why not right?  ::)