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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => General Game Discussion => Topic started by: Roachor on April 11, 2010, 08:06:08 pm

Title: So the milita serves what purpose other than helping pkers?
Post by: Roachor on April 11, 2010, 08:06:08 pm
I wouldn't have so much of an issue with it if these npcs weren't being used to camp the only quests worth doing in the game but it seems to me that pvp has gotten quite lazy if all you have to do to kill bluesuits is take the town.

Never mind I guess the militia just happened to be running by at the same time i got killed.
Title: Re: So the milita serves what purpose other than helping pkers?
Post by: Candy on April 12, 2010, 08:00:37 am
flame me if you want big factions, but from my point of view the system is overdone and is abused. Prewipe there was a topic about "we dont want to fight mutants, we want to fight players" remember it? well devs fixed it by making rockets expensive (intentional or not?) and the max value of slaves that a faction can have is 3. On the other hand, as far as i know there is an unlimited amount of militia you can hire to protect your town as long as you have the caps. so...3 mercs vs 25 heavily armed militias with miniguns and rocket launchers and lasers. Right now it is impossible for a small faction to participate in a town control and expect something positive. The only possible solution is to form temporary alliance with some other gang and take on a town, but even so....language barrier...hello?
Right now we have a new game mode... PvM (Players vs Militias)
Title: Re: So the milita serves what purpose other than helping pkers?
Post by: VongJin on April 12, 2010, 08:18:12 am
blah...even full town militia can't  really kill someone exept silly blue suits. it's completly useless agains 3-5 armored people... coz militia  can't *think like a man* they just stupid bot's and can be easy tricked. ;)
Title: Re: So the milita serves what purpose other than helping pkers?
Post by: blahblah on April 12, 2010, 08:38:09 am
Moderately related:
http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=3359.0
Title: Re: So the milita serves what purpose other than helping pkers?
Post by: Candy on April 12, 2010, 08:49:10 am
blah...even full town militia can't  really kill someone exept silly blue suits. it's completly useless agains 3-5 armored people... coz militia  can't *think like a man* they just stupid bot's and can be easy tricked. ;)
eh, i was tempted with that thought at first...So my gang took on modoc. I was the lucky one with the insta death crit from a laser from 1 of the militias..
Title: Re: So the milita serves what purpose other than helping pkers?
Post by: Pozzo on April 12, 2010, 09:57:00 am
Quote
as far as i know there is an unlimited amount of militia you can hire to protect your town as long as you have the caps. so...3 mercs vs 25 heavily armed militias with miniguns and rocket launchers and lasers.

You can hire a maximum of 20 milicians in a town and you can't choose the equipement (sometimes the milician got a knife, sometimes a minigun).
But like VongJin said, milicians are weak against 4-5 characters lvl 21. And they are stupid. All you have to do is attract them from some place in the city and they will attack you one by one or 3 by 3...
But they are useful because they avoid 4 bluesuits to take towns.
Title: Re: So the milita serves what purpose other than helping pkers?
Post by: vedaras on April 12, 2010, 11:15:33 am
You can hire a maximum of 20 milicians in a town and you can't choose the equipement (sometimes the milician got a knife, sometimes a minigun).
But like VongJin said, milicians are weak against 4-5 characters lvl 21. And they are stupid. All you have to do is attract them from some place in the city and they will attack you one by one or 3 by 3...
But they are useful because they avoid 4 bluesuits to take towns.

making something like "power rating" which would be players who offering protection equipment and characters levels count should help, you dont pass it mayor tells you to gtfo, you pass it you take town. Easy to make without abuse of militia. I dont know about other gangs opinions, but at least rogues told me that none pretty much fight pvp for town control after wipe. Slaying militia is everything now people do, so pvmilitia is right name for current tc system.
Title: Re: So the milita serves what purpose other than helping pkers?
Post by: Pozzo on April 12, 2010, 11:28:06 am
Yes we fight more often against militia that against players (and I have no problem with that). If gang want to do more PvP instead of PvM, they should not be able to take many towns at the same time. If we take towns one by one we are sure that we will meet in battle if we want this town.
Militia should be balanced according to the power of the gang who control the town. I think there is a lot of changes we should think about and I think devs are already preparing some things for us.

Maybe different prices for milicians (1500, 2500, 4000, and so on...).
Or maybe we should be able to buy one more milician per hour the gang is controling the town.

One more thing : militia only defends the mayor house. I hope some gangs will try to use militia to protect their town against PKers and to allow other people to come safely. But if they want it militia should be placed everywhere in the town, not only near the mayor house.
Title: Re: So the milita serves what purpose other than helping pkers?
Post by: vedaras on April 12, 2010, 12:31:05 pm
Well making something like tc limit should help and encourage people to fight. If it would be possible to start one or two town controls at same time in whole wasteland by all gangs things may change. And only when tc timer ends you are able to take another town, i think something like this would do the trick.

Title: Re: So the milita serves what purpose other than helping pkers?
Post by: Vordarod on April 12, 2010, 01:49:21 pm
So why shouldn't we give militia simple dialogue option, feg. when someone comes to city, closest militants speak to this player and ask if he will pay for protection, lets say 100 caps, if you pay NO ONE can harm you, if someone try, he will be shoot like rat.
Title: Re: So the milita serves what purpose other than helping pkers?
Post by: gordulan on April 12, 2010, 01:54:13 pm
that could be nice, and the "protection" money would go to a chest which only the controlling gang could open, as would 3% of the gear & caps traded in the town, it would give a reason for gangs not to kill all tresspassers just because they can.
Title: Re: So the milita serves what purpose other than helping pkers?
Post by: Badger on April 12, 2010, 02:03:08 pm
So why shouldn't we give militia simple dialogue option, feg. when someone comes to city, closest militants speak to this player and ask if he will pay for protection, lets say 100 caps, if you pay NO ONE can harm you, if someone try, he will be shoot like rat.


I'm quite a fan of this.
Title: Re: So the milita serves what purpose other than helping pkers?
Post by: Lexx on April 12, 2010, 02:17:00 pm
So the people from faction x are coming in town, everyone pays some money. Then they get in position and start blasting the militia away. :>
Title: Re: So the milita serves what purpose other than helping pkers?
Post by: Quentin Lang on April 12, 2010, 02:23:33 pm
Well, Lexx, people tend to stab dagger in someones back, do they ;) Nice suggestion actually. Would end the mindless griefing of killing miners/whining of getting killed while mining.
Title: Re: So the milita serves what purpose other than helping pkers?
Post by: Vordarod on April 12, 2010, 02:30:26 pm
Ok Lexx you have right, there should be restricted that, if you start shoot you will die to, like a simple criminal.

Some examples.

(P) - paid  (N) - not paid

(P1)Shoot -> (P2)Hit : Militia attacks (P1), common bandit
(P)Hit <- (N)Shoot : Militia attacks (N), standard option
(N)Shoot -> (N)Respond and kill : militia isn't react

So if you pay, that means "OK i will be calm, but don't allow to kill me"

PS: my English sux
Title: Re: So the milita serves what purpose other than helping pkers?
Post by: Kilgore on April 12, 2010, 02:32:53 pm
It would be good only if:

1. it was more than just 100 caps (100 caps is ridiculously low)
2. payment was taken to TC footlocker
3. militia would still attack those who attack militia / member of controlling gang
4. you weren't protected anymore if the town is taken by another team
Title: Re: So the milita serves what purpose other than helping pkers?
Post by: Izual on April 12, 2010, 02:33:58 pm
It would be good only if:

1. it was more than just 100 caps (100 caps is ridiculously low)

100 caps is a high price for newcomers, and this feature would be useful mostly for them.
Title: Re: So the milita serves what purpose other than helping pkers?
Post by: Kilgore on April 12, 2010, 02:36:50 pm
At least 500.

- Not hard to get (2 repeatable quests completed once and it's all),
- rewarding for controlling faction,
- discouraging other factions from paying just to rape militia and members of controlling gang in easier way

also saying that 100 caps is a high price for anyone must be a joke of some sort

Still, there is a problem: member of controlling faction can just camp and kill those who come there to pay.
Title: Re: So the milita serves what purpose other than helping pkers?
Post by: Vordarod on April 12, 2010, 02:44:45 pm
100 wasn't proposition, yea I know there should be X not a certain amount. I think those solution is acceptable for both side, weak players will be safe as lon as they are in city, and PvP faction will have profit form this. Of course there is always chance to capture town with, chest full of caps.
Title: Re: So the milita serves what purpose other than helping pkers?
Post by: gordulan on April 12, 2010, 02:51:25 pm
maybe 75 caps per level so a lvl 21 player=1625 caps per time visited lvl 10 player (which most normal people are on)=750 caps per visit.
Title: Re: So the milita serves what purpose other than helping pkers?
Post by: Vordarod on April 12, 2010, 02:55:19 pm
Hmm in my opinion acceptable solution, lets see what other thinks.
Title: Re: So the milita serves what purpose other than helping pkers?
Post by: Pozzo on April 12, 2010, 03:58:06 pm
Maybe not pay for every visit but pay for constant visit, like daily pass in VC.
Title: Re: So the milita serves what purpose other than helping pkers?
Post by: _Youkai_ on April 12, 2010, 04:11:02 pm
Well making something like tc limit should help and encourage people to fight. If it would be possible to start one or two town controls at same time in whole wasteland by all gangs things may change. And only when tc timer ends you are able to take another town, i think something like this would do the trick.


Good idea. I like it.
Title: Re: So the milita serves what purpose other than helping pkers?
Post by: Quentin Lang on April 12, 2010, 05:15:17 pm
Maybe not pay for every visit but pay for constant visit, like daily pass in VC.
This. And the faction itself should determine how much it should cost. You enter town, if you dont buy the pass in 1 minute, you get fuxored. Either pay the, 500 would be a nice cost for like 3 hours, or get out.
Title: Re: So the milita serves what purpose other than helping pkers?
Post by: Nice_Boat on April 12, 2010, 06:25:15 pm
Why are you approaching the problem from the arse's side? Make a guarded location for every town, just like mines. Or one for all of them. Or put it in the NCR. Post a terminal there. You want to enter BH, you pay X caps at the terminal and you get flagged as *paid* for a given town. You die there while being flagged, the controlling faction doesn't receive shit. You don't, they get 50% of the X caps you deposited at their TC stash after your "day pass" expires.

Suddenly:
- no alting can overcome the system - you pay from the gang stash, you lose 50% of what you paid for a funny flag over your head
- no stupid rules for TC people - they do what they want, militia works as it did - if they kill people indiscriminately, their paycheck's going to suck hard
- controlling faction becomes interested in protecting visitors, other factions might want to kill them to reduce the income
- the bonus cash stays when the town gets captured by another faction and flags are visible for everyone - so if the attackers are there to stay, they just might want to reduce collateral damage
- there's a clear distinction between hardcore PK, mild PK and friendly factions
- spies can still be killed on sight even if they use the system, it promotes real visitors with real business there

... good enough?

Oh, and the passes could come in all sizes and shapes, so a wealthy merchant could pay just enough for the gang to make looting him questionable... I mean yeah, you could get that armor and some wares, but he won't come tomorrow with more, right? If you make trading in TC-able towns more profitable than trading in, say, NCR - you could get some real money and ware transfer going on - or a player driven economy, if you will. I mean, Klamath could pay you more for EP based stuff while Gecko could use some brahmin hides. Endless possibilities.
Title: Re: So the milita serves what purpose other than helping pkers?
Post by: Midnight on April 12, 2010, 07:33:26 pm
Paying  something depending of your lv would be great cause right now it's quite ridiculous.

You come to trade to modoc for exemple, you come sell a Brahmin, A) you get simply shot by a guy and militi a finish you off, B) someone PK you C) someone kill your cow.
I know northen cities are supposed to be savages, but you don't choose where you spawn, some "noobies" quest are in those cities and when you start or respawn you haven't even a knife, traveling the waste is impossible.

I would say too, a city with no trade die, and the actual system make trade useless, players prefere shooting blue suits than leting them trade some healing powder, cause they can take there equipement.
Militia should be a little more concerned about that cause they are supposed to maintain a bit of order in the city and be sure it's going good.
Title: Re: So the milita serves what purpose other than helping pkers?
Post by: Pozzo on April 12, 2010, 09:22:56 pm
Quote
players prefere shooting blue suits than leting them trade some healing powder, cause they can take there equipement.
Militia should be a little more concerned about that cause they are supposed to maintain a bit of order in the city and be sure it's going good.

Factions controlling towns prefer to trade themselves because they don't want other players to take the caps and ammos from merchants.
Title: Re: So the milita serves what purpose other than helping pkers?
Post by: Surf on April 13, 2010, 03:44:41 am
*snip*

Sounds really good.

I love you.  ;D
Title: Re: So the milita serves what purpose other than helping pkers?
Post by: Badger on April 13, 2010, 11:31:41 am
So the people from faction x are coming in town, everyone pays some money. Then they get in position and start blasting the militia away. :>

There's still the good old BACK OFF YOU'RE TOO CLOSE script from caravans. Or maybe if you pull a gun you get shot.
Title: Re: So the milita serves what purpose other than helping pkers?
Post by: Nice_Boat on April 13, 2010, 11:40:31 am
There's still the good old BACK OFF YOU'RE TOO CLOSE script from caravans. Or maybe if you pull a gun you get shot.

All it takes is entering a "good" house and firing off a sniper rifle round. Militia have to engage in the streets, all at once to have a chance - and the only way to do that is having them commanded by a player. If you include a mechanism that lets players freeroam a TC-enabled town without the controlling faction having any say you could just a well revert back to the mechanism from 2 wipes ago.

Anyway, I don't see the point of the OP - does it really make that much of a difference if the militia finishes you off you instead of a sniper with a hunting rifle? Once the bullet strikes the flesh you're screwed anyway. If anything, I'd say that if the controlling faction is using a guy with a BB gun shooting at the torso your chances are higher than if it was a powerbuild hunting for you with his battle weapon of choice. Besides, the system is working as intended as showcased by miners being protected in BH and Redding from time to time and the permament gang presence in their towns. You'd NEVER see something like that without the militia, and the cities would be ghost towns with bloodthirsty raiders waiting on the worldmap. It just needs a bit more polish to make everyone happy, that's all.