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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Closed suggestions => Topic started by: Elmehdi on April 08, 2010, 08:03:10 pm
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Yeah, I know there were a lot of topics about it already, but as far as I remember none of them was a poll and I’m pretty much interested in what the overall response to this idea is. Removing a maximum level would obviously require reworking some of the current game mechanics not to allow players to become overpowered, such as f.e. making a life giver perk give one-time bonus to hp instead of an amount per level, or removing sniper/slayer perks. To be honest I never like that kind of arbitral limitations in any game and I would be glad to know if there is any chance that a current level capacity ever gets removed or at least extended.
Since I’m not kind of a humanist type, I’ll just simply enumerate pros that I see:
- Less alts lagging the server,
- Less pointless cruelty – most of people start to PK when they hit the levelcap and become bored. Opportunity of further exping would keep them busy and make the wasteland a little better place for newbies.
- The characters would be able to become a bit more universal at some level – f.e. you could develop 2 weapon skills – with the current 21 levelcap such a build would truly suck.
- The game would become generally longer for lone players – face that at this point of development the game actually ends after reaching a levelcap. Then it’s either you join a gang and play counterstrike with others or stop playing.. or start building another alt.
- Much bigger variety of characters, not just 2-3 standard builds for sniper and 2-3 standard builds for biggunner. It’s quite funny right now how easy it is to guess almost all the statistics of a player just on the basis of his hp and carried weapon because of so little possibilities.
- Building a character would become more elastic which means less frustration whenever you put a point into a wrong place or choose a wrong perk, which in most cases results in having to start a game anew in the current situation.
- A psychological phenomenon :P – how people minmax all the stats in order to become ultimate killers after hitting 21’th level – would be no more, because even a pure crafter would be able to become one after long enough time of playing.
Last but not least: We test this game, right? So why to limit us that badly? In the sake of a testing process we should be able to experience more aspects of the game with one character, not just one build ONLY for PvE.. or one main + 30 narrowly specialized 1 CHA alts which you need in order simply not to suck PvP. Let a single character be a bit more universal – the game will certainly not be hurt by it.
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I'm all for little more universality and alt reduction. You can create good all-rounder char who can do many things, but still has distinct specialities. They are just outmatched by powerbuilds in pvp. If level cap was raised, the gap between adventure chars and combat only chars would widen even more.
Expanding the level cap won't help because eventually everyone will be at max level and then we see the same what always happens -> boredom, madness and alts or just new chars. Higher level cap cannot be the ultimate answer to character development. It is very desperate feeling when you know you cannot achieve anything anymore once you reach the top level. You just start thinking what went wrong in character development and start planning making a new one.
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gifted trait would solve all this :D
And i dont see how level cap limit extending could solve problems, it would just delay them.
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If level cap was raised, the gap between adventure chars and combat only chars would widen even more.
Well, increasing a weapon skill over 240 seems rather pointless, so even pure PvP builds would have to scatter the skill points after reaching f.e a level 25.
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WHINNING MODE ON
just implement leveldowns
WHINNING MODE OFF
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high your skill more critical you get? yes im sure of this?
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Well, increasing a weapon skill over 240 seems rather pointless, so even pure PvP builds would have to scatter the skill points after reaching f.e a level 25.
It's the perks and stats that make the difference. Hitpoints received from EN10 and 2 lifegivers would give tremendous benefit if level cap was raised.
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I don't like the gap in usefulness between mid-high level players as it is. Letting players have 500hp seems like a bad idea. Hell, letting them get near 200hp is a bad idea in my book.
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I don't like the gap in usefulness between mid-high level players as it is. Letting players have 500hp seems like a bad idea. Hell, letting them get near 200hp is a bad idea in my book.
It's just the life giver perk. It was designed for OFFLINE crpg, in which you achieve 20th+ lvl not so long before the final scene. In FOnline 21th lvl is just a beginning of real game (and the real boredom), so the benefits of life giver are much higher. That also counts, for example, for... oh forgot... you know that "+5% to exp" perk - could be useful in original game, but totally useless here.
UPD
i mean, most perks are to be redesigned for MMO needs. There should be no perks that are almost useless at the levelcap, but "very useful" for low level characters. Because low level is temporary, levelcap is eternal (before the wipe lol). Or levelcap should be removed. Or yes, leveldowns implemented...
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high your skill more critical you get? yes im sure of this?
... There is a little truth in it - actually you get a slight bonus for critical chance (from 0 to 9%) depending on a chance to hit. But since after getting 240% in a gun skill, your cth is always 95%, further increasing the skill is still pointless :P.
I don't like the gap in usefulness between mid-high level players as it is. Letting players have 500hp seems like a bad idea. Hell, letting them get near 200hp is a bad idea in my book.
It's the perks and stats that make the difference. Hitpoints received from EN10 and 2 lifegivers would give tremendous benefit if level cap was raised.
That's why I wrote that reworking a hp gain mechanics would be necesarry - players with 600 hp is something that I woulld never like to see either ::).
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i am for but I think we should extend the cap to level 24, pheraphs 27... no more. And there should be only one lifegiver allowed OR after 21 lvl there would could no HP gain!
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... There is a little truth in it - actually you get a slight bonus for critical chance (from 0 to 9%) depending on a chance to hit. But since after getting 240% in a gun skill, your cth is always 95%, further increasing the skill is still pointless
Can you back that up at all? Afaik there is no relevance between chance to hit and crits.
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it seems that he meant aimed shots to the eyes with luck 10, finesse and 3x more criticals...
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Can you back that up at all? Afaik there is no relevance between chance to hit and crits.
Here is the source: http://fonlinedocs.netii.net/fo2calg.pdf
And here is some highlight:
The chance for a hit to be upgraded to a critical hit is then
(CRITCHANCE + Trunc ((TOHIT − RND)/10))%.
Edit: to be more clear - CRITCHANCE is a base critical chance + aiming bonus + (optional) more criricals, TOHIT is a chance to hit, RND is a random roll from 1 to 100.
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The super high leveling reeks of munchkinism.
Roleplay some alternate builds, experiment.
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@Elmhedi ok, but isn't the TOHIT maximum of 95%? then high skill would give nothing
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@Elmhedi ok, but isn't the TOHIT maximum of 95%? then high skill would give nothing
Here is all the info you need ;):
It's bad that I noticed this thread only today. So let me write the correct version for "Critical hits explained".
In Fallout 2:
First, the chance for a critical hit. It's percentage value is a sum of Bonus Critical Chance (gained from Luck, Finesse and More Criticals perks and aimed shot) and a base chance, that depends on the main attack roll. It is equal to the difference of your tohit chance, and the actual d100 number rolled when determining whether the attack was a hit or a miss, divided by ten, rounded down.
So, for example, if you're shooting an opponent with 95% hit chance, and you rolled 64 (which means a hit), then your base chance is (95-64)/10 = 3.1 [%], rounded to 3%.
Final critical chance for a character with 6 Luck and no relevant perks and traits aiming for enemy head would be therefore (3 + 6 + 40)%.
That's right - the main attack roll is used not only for determining the hit/miss, but counts for a critical hit (or failure) chance too.
Now assume that the attack was a critical hit. Follow the http://falloutmods.wikia.com/wiki/Critical_hit_tables . Multiplier is applied to the base weapon damage, which is increased by the Bonus Ranged or Bonus Melee damage, but NOT increased by the Living Anatomy. This is also done simultaneously with the ammo damage modifiers.
In Fonline:
There are theree main differences: first is the reworked critical hit table (still WIP).
Second, there is a separate critical hit table for an uncalled shot (they were present in FO2, but unused; uncalled shots were identical to torso shots).
Third, the critical chance bonus from aimed shot is reduced to (50 + Luck*5)% of the original value (Luck 6 and eyes gives (50+6*5)% of 60%, which is equal to 48%).
Also, http://fonlinedocs.netii.net/fo2calg.pdf - explains the FO2 critical chance in a more ordered fashion, as well as the critical failures.
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oh damn, my mistake I was just reading too fast, we even didn't need to argue because we thought the same.
whatever. I still think that 3 extra levels to get wouldn't be bad, however Sniper perk shouldn't be allowed (Slayer should be :D maybe someone would go melee then...) and double lifegiver would give only 24 HP more. The fact is that more SP could work in an Anti-Alt way!
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oh damn, my mistake I was just reading too fast, we even didn't need to argue because we thought the same.
whatever. I still think that 3 extra levels to get wouldn't be bad, however Sniper perk shouldn't be allowed (Slayer should be :D maybe someone would go melee then...) and double lifegiver would give only 24 HP more. The fact is that more SP could work in an Anti-Alt way!
Just allow to take gifted trait and all characters will be way more universal. These suggestions of level cap increase would change much things and would need much rebalansing, and gifted would need just adding it :>
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it seems to me that gifted trait was not introduced because it was overpowered right? i miss it too :)
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Just allow to take gifted trait and all characters will be way more universal. These suggestions of level cap increase would change much things and would need much rebalansing, and gifted would need just adding it :>
Well, I must say that I'm quite glad that a gifted trait is not available - it would be an "option" that just everybody would take. Also removing/extending a level capacity would surely make characters a bit more universal BUT after 2-3 mounths of playing - it would be a kind of a gratification for the involvement in the game (or just amount of time that you spend online :P). Activating a gifted trait would make everybody jacks of all trades from the very beginning of their adventure, which is bad. Do you catch the difference ;)?
The way I see it is that there is no way to stop people from alting by force - players will always take the easiest path. The only way to LIMIT its occurence is to make them not need it so much. The reason for no level capacity is not meant to make players immortal 1k hp tanks everyone, but to give us an option to extend a single character capabilities, f.e. as a level 30 sniper you could be able to use both small guns or energy weapons without having to switch alts - and still be able to achieve a full efficiency in PvP with either one of these categories.
Balancing it properly is another issue: In Fallout 3, no matter how much you try, at the end of the game you always become ”jack of all trades” – it is one extreme that I never want to see in any of fallout games. FOnline is right now on another extreme, where you need 2 or 3 alts + main, to attain a full satisfaction from the game. Somewhere between these two extremes lies a balance, that both of these “RPGs” are far away from.
The ONLY reason why a lack of levelcap might make some no-life grinders immortal is a HP gain system, which would obviously need reworking:
- Life giver must give one-time bonus of, lets say, 30 to your maximum hit points,
- Overall HP gain rate per level should be decreased by 1 or 2,
- Sniper and slayer perk should be removed/reworked NOT because they make you overpowered (even though they do), but because they make “more criticals” perk completely obsolete, which makes no sense.
Other than that, there are no more perks/skills/other advancements that would make anybody overpowered. Even If somebody took all available perks, he would still be quite an easy target for 2 – 3 mid-level people, as long as HP amount is maintained on a reasonable level.
If these changes are implemented there is absolutely NO more reason to keep a level capacity at all.
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i'd say that the slayer perk should be retained just because of the severely underpowered, and useless melee skills, and besides, who in their right mind would get the crits perk with a melee build, which btw nobody uses, it would give the martial artists within us a fighting chance.
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i'd say that the slayer perk should be retained just because of the severely underpowered, and useless melee skills, and besides, who in their right mind would get the crits perk with a melee build, which btw nobody uses, it would give the martial artists within us a fighting chance.
And the next time some fools get killed in CA by a couple of random unarmed guys throwing spears the perk will be disabled just as science skill during combat did.
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And the next time some fools get killed in CA by a couple of random unarmed guys throwing spears the perk will be disabled just as science skill during combat did.
Throwing spears wouldn't be affected by slayer, however you can insta kill someone with a rock to the eye with better crits.
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Well, They Shoud Be Extended. OR Youre Able to Find books in the wasteland for example "Armour and you!" And that Book Gives You like +20 Repair? Or like "Gunshots In The Belly" +20 First Aid. Ect, Kinda Like Fallout 3 Except The Books are REALLY Hard to Find and they Give Much more Skill.
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I think the level cap should be increased :
- if you don't want each player to create 5 characters you have to let them get some level to up ...
- When we get to the 21 level, what we do ? pk / mining, pk / mining, pk /mining ........... ok good but everyone will enjoy that for some days and will create another character soon ...
- With only 21 levels, we have to specialise a lot our character, i mean we don't have enough skill points or perks to make a versatil character .. a fighter is a fighter only a crafter is a crafter only, ...
Some reasons of why to me level cap should be increased guys :)
Thanks a lot for reading
See you and which you a great day !
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As i said, LEVEL CUP will create bigger barrier between normal and nolife players.
I will not have chance in PvP against someone, who has 3x more life than me.
Also chars will look almost the same. Now it is at least little chemistry to create good PvP char, after this, most of chars will look same.
This topic is opening every era at least twice and developers always said that they dont want to do that, so i think this topic is useless.
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personally, if you want my vote.
i don't think raising the level cap would even help, thats why the devs probally shoot the idea down.
i'd rather people lose XP on dead after they reach level 15 or so.
but also.
if you want to make the game last longer, i'd suggest adding more random effects. like dying in the glow would give you a 5% chance (with luck at 6 or over) of getting some nice trait, and a 20% chance of getting something negative. or just walking around with rads all togather being a risk of going mutie on your gang mates..
i'm out of ideas this morning so don't shoot me..
cheers.
-Ulrek-
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As i said, LEVEL CUP will create bigger barrier between normal and nolife players.
I will not have chance in PvP against someone, who has 3x more life than me.
Also chars will look almost the same. Now it is at least little chemistry to create good PvP char, after this, most of chars will look same.
This topic is opening every era at least twice and developers always said that they dont want to do that, so i think this topic is useless.
Is the LEVEL CUP what keeps you safe from groin shots? Because if it is I want one.