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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => General Game Discussion => Topic started by: Lordus on April 08, 2010, 02:04:26 am
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Hello wastelanders,
i am sending greetings from other world, world of duties, stress, lack of time. Maybe someone notice it, but i stoped play, left the faction, unistalled client. But, i am missing my friends from voice communication channel, my old teamates.
I have not time for fonline and if i can spend any, it will be few hours per week, not per day. Also, the spring and summer and nice weather is comming. So, i have one big question. What occasions offers Fallout Online for players like me, who can spend 2-3 hours per week ingame?
If i need to abreact myself, i spend one hour in L4D2 or TF2 multiplayer game, i (mostly) enjoy the session, then logout and i am satisfied. So, is there any similar occasion in fonline, kind of i will look forward, enjoy it with my teamates and i will be satisfied too? Remember, i dont think that level up my char from level 8 to level 9 is that kind of situation. And, of course, L4D or TF2 is not MMORPG, but, seriously, Fonline is not MMORPG too (with totaly absence of kind of backstory or at least any special or repetable quests).
But, maybe, i forgot some famous game mechanism, entertaining, which will allow me to spend previously defined ammount of time with my old friends and i will enjoy that. This thread is meaned seriously, no flame or insultation, only answers please. Maybe reactions will help devs with define the way, where devs should spend their developing time.
Thank you,
Lordus
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(with totaly absence of kind of backstory or at least any special or repetable quests)
I don't know any backstory in FOnline (there should be any?), but repetable quests - well, I know at least one, with bringing a shovel in exchange for a hammer/hatchet/knife and 100 xp for one guy in Hub. It is not much, but it is only beginning. I hope. Sure you can't level up your char this way, "shovel quest" is repeatable after couple days of real time.
2-3 hours in a week is not much indeed. You had this small amount of time before the wipe either? Maybe this is reason why you don't enjoy this game now - before you had much more time to level up your char and enjoy the game?
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I strongly suggest you to keep on l4d and tf2, it that makes you happy.
You know that FOnline won't bring you any happiness soon, and when it does, it will be wiping, so your hours of hard work will be long gone. I, myself, barely have time for FOnline as well, but I have more than you, so I can still (kinda) enjoy it.
And well, winter is coming here by the time there is spring or summer, so I guess we're on a different mood. I'll most likely spend all of my hours home, so yeah, FOnline is for me, but if I were in summer then I would be far from it. FOnline is not on a fun phase, it's on a bug hunt and fixes phase. It's for players willing to help the game improve, not having fun at all.
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Repetable quest... Try it come from the desert, ask to the Doc in San Francisco. Or ask to the Mayor, in Boneyard, he have problem with dogs.
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Good repeatable quests, I guess for you people that dont know about that big green wiki button up there heres some good ones, I would know, I do them all the time, bear in mind i have a 10 int and 10 chr taxi/craft/energy build so I do get more rewards with a higher chr.
New Reno, Old man wrights quest, southern building on the eastern entrance on New Reno,
Modoc, Balthas' hide quest, its a trip between Modoc to Vault City to Modoc, youll have to talk to grisham and a brahmin guy named ed, quest xp is 900 and you get a jacket.
Grisham also has a repeatable quest that can be done about 25? minutes real time, its jerky delivery to either vault city, or ncr, and i think maybe the hub, im not sure.
Adytum(boneyard) The doctor lookin dude to the right by a tent will give you fetch quests, if you can get the needed items for these fetch quests its pretty good loot and xp.
the higher number of items asked for results in better xp and monetary reward,
i also noticed that i would get either 1 leather jacket or a shotgun and a 10mm pistol with 24 10mm ap and i think 24 shotgun shells.
I guess if anyone else needs help finding quests in general ive compiled enough information to get to about lvl 12 without ever really hunting much.
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or, you could, like me justplay dragon age or just cause 2 if fonline seems to grindy (not sure if "grindy" is a word, can anyone confirm it or something)
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Too much risk, too little reward.
Too much tedium, too little fun.
Too much difficulty, too little alternatives.
This is not a game for casual players.
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Also, the spring and summer and nice weather is comming.
(http://media.riemurasia.net/albumit/mmedia/9v/k4/fa0l/182831/636951606.gif)
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Damn Avv,you could use a shave and your looking a little pasty.
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1) If you are alone, it's EXACTLY like in Fallout 1 and 2. You make some quests, you get some gear, you lose it, you get some better gear, you trade with other players, sometimes you kill mobs/players. Pleasure comes from the sight of your character getting better and your tent getting more and more filled with gear.
2) If you play in a little gang, then it's quite the same, except that you have to manage a gang. It's even better than being alone, but only if you trust your mates. And yes, you can't take a town for a long period of time or kill any player you see. That's not a big problem though.
3) You are saying that you miss your friends. VSB, I guess ? Well, VSB are (were, at least - I don't know about their situation nowadays) quite a big gang. Dude, you are in a big gang and saying that you lack of time to play ? I guess you're talking about gear, not about experience - who could dare complaining about the fact you got to earn experience before being strong in a MMORPG ? My bet is VSB have some stuff to lend you, if you're online "only" a few hours a day. If they don't want to, well. Be patient, craft your stuff, and you'll get all you need in three days.
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1) If you are alone, it's EXACTLY like in Fallout 1 and 2.
: /
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just cause 2
Very good timesink. Not very ambitious game, but fun for a day or week.
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Be patient, craft your stuff, and you'll get all you need in three days.
Your days have 96 hours or what?
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Your problem is that you only think that fun in this game = Level 21 + Bozar/Gauss/Sniper Rifle/Minigun + CA + Shitloads of ammo. I use to play alone and guess what, I have fun, yeah man. I'm doing my stuff, sometimes I lose it, sometimes I find 500 caps and I'm damn happy.
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Your problem is that you only think that fun in this game = Level 21 + Bozar/Gauss/Sniper Rifle/Minigun + CA + Shitloads of ammo. I use to play alone and guess what, I have fun, yeah man. I'm doing my stuff, sometimes I lose it, sometimes I find 500 caps and I'm damn happy.
Ditto. This is the only fun I have in the game. But the game is starting to try to cater to this kind of experience too.
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I have a SG craft 2/ PvE char and I haven't yet crafted much, nor trading with players. Only crafted some 10mm and Shotgun Shells, cause ammo is never enough after Wipe. I'm something like lvl 6 and have some Snipers, Combat Shotguns, Hunting and Scoped Hunting, Assault Rifles, all kind of pistols and enough Armors too. On that level it was risky to get them and ofc I died few times, but it was worth it. I'm playing totally alone cause my mates haven't made characters after Wipe.
The game is not that hard at all, only problem is exp. for me. Exp. I was making with my versatile char few days, you will make like in one day if you invest soon in Outdoorsman (just tested with new char).
Of course, if only 3 hours per week, then you're very limited. Cause on some sort of entertainment you need some equipment and experience and you must invest some time to get them, with 3hrs/week it can be quite a long run.
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I played since the start of beta and i found only few team funny actions. I will try to describe it here, i hope my memory will not fail me.
1) PvP. There are many kinds of PvP. Huge battles (40+ players), normal battles, suicide (mostly :) ) attacks, hit and run attacks, hit and hide attacks, caravan traps, caravan traps breaking, turnbased fights, "ares type" events,.. In current game mechanism, i must have at least 100 hp if i want to survive first enemy burst with minigun type of weapon. I think, that enemies can burst 2-3x with their guns per "turn". So this kind of action is forbidden for me, because with current experience system, i will have enough level to join this in june. (i still need to get my gear,...). This is not crying, this is statement of fact. I must add, that VSB reinvented guerilla attacks last era, when our players, poor equiped, defended city against enemy CA and best weapons formations. This kind of fights were almost best fights in last era, in my chart of battles are in same positions like huge Klamath 15+ minutes long fights. But seriously, the chance of wining is very small and all of us had lvl21 combat chars.
My little solution: disable (or reduce) experience decreasing, if your char is not logged for some time (days, weeks). Set this reduction to smart level, so regural players will have still big advantage against players like me, which will spend only few hours per werrk ingame. From my point of view, i will have motivation to stay ingame and i will have chance to make up for lost time in case of my character leveling.
2) PvE. There is not many PvE occasions. I know, there was one cave quest added, but not random one, so if you do that, you dont need to repeat it again (i think that it is not entertaining to repeat same quest again and again). In VSB, there were caravan hunting PvE actions last era, until developers reduce the amount of LSW in one caravan. They wanted to balance economics (they did not succeed), but they ruined the PvE action, because after that, there was better to hunt it alone because of number of LSW. Sometimes, i went with friends to caves, hunt there deathclaws and looking for some stuff. I dont know, if this is possible now. Also team centaurs/floaters hunting was team action i remember, but it was not fun, it was duty because of leveling.
3) Quests. I dont think that name quest is correct for that kind of NPC interaction. Most of them are only for first few levels to get first gear and experience, little of them are for more than one player. There is not backgound story, because (i think) that developres dont think about adding it. There is not any RPG quest, with many tipes of conversation topics, possibilities of actions and consequence in gameworld.
I.E.: Raiders: I can join raider faction, after that, i am unable to get to most cities, because everybody will attack me on sight (raiders will still attack me in encouters too :/ ). But, why is not raider "gang" something like combination of player faction and NPC faction. There can be organized raids on cities with players and NPC every (2nd, 3rd,...) day, only depends if you can find enough players, with ranks depending on kill/death ratio, number of finished actions,... . You will also get some experience points from succesfull raids, stuff (maybe stuff from encounters, where raiders were succesful). Also, you will have possibility to join encounters on the side of raiders, so i can spend my 2-3 hours per week with raider city attacks/encouters attacks and i will be satisfied. Yes, it will be easiest way how to exist in fonline (because of bad karma in cites), but it will hold many players ingame and there is disadvantage of bad karma = you cant vist cites.
Also, i am little sad. I suggested Nuclear waste storage quests and there were many similar suggestions from another players/GMs. My suggestion needs only to create little new map cca 20*20 hex which you can conncect with existing caves using green exid grid hexes. This kind of actions will be exactly that i need to return for few hours a week.. i will make char, which will be useful for team. Not pure PvP char, but scientist/thief/demoexpert/repairman/spokesman/doctor/scout ..... neccesary to succes in this kind of repetable quests. This will allow me to join this team action. I could choose from kind of chars depending on my time avaibility. It is sad, because devs every wipe wants to modify game economics and after last wipe you add many new maps (mining,..), more bigger that one map i needed (one map with random content or more very similar maps) only for mining.
4) GM organized events. It is not magnet for me, if i am not ingame. But i have one idea.. Why not to combine the NPC quests with existing players/GMs. I.e., King of Wasteland, Vedaras I. Latvian (hope your bro is healty again) can be one link in existing quest chain. I think that many players will join this kind of quests because of fun.
5) Using game client as special kind of chat aplication ("NCR chat client") :)
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Wow, are we playing a new game ? Let-s-ignore- all-posts-above-and-post-my-own-idea-regardless-of-everything-that-has-been-said ? Oh wait. It's not a new game.
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1) PvP. There are many kinds of PvP. Huge battles (40+ players), normal battles, suicide (mostly :) ) attacks, hit and run attacks, hit and hide attacks, caravan traps, caravan traps breaking, turnbased fights, "ares type" events,.. In current game mechanism, i must have at least 100 hp if i want to survive first enemy burst with minigun type of weapon. I think, that enemies can burst 2-3x with their guns per "turn". So this kind of action is forbidden for me, because with current experience system, i will have enough level to join this in june. (i still need to get my gear,...). This is not crying, this is statement of fact. I must add, that VSB reinvented guerilla attacks last era, when our players, poor equiped, defended city against enemy CA and best weapons formations. This kind of fights were almost best fights in last era, in my chart of battles are in same positions like huge Klamath 15+ minutes long fights. But seriously, the chance of wining is very small and all of us had lvl21 combat chars.
My little solution: disable (or reduce) experience decreasing, if your char is not logged for some time (days, weeks). Set this reduction to smart level, so regural players will have still big advantage against players like me, which will spend only few hours per werrk ingame. From my point of view, i will have motivation to stay ingame and i will have chance to make up for lost time in case of my character leveling.
Don't you realize the problem isn't slow exping but the fact that the game encourages making pumped powerbuilds if you want to do any serious pvp. If you only have few hours per day to play this game you should suggest that everyone with a gun and knowledge about pvp should be able to participate in pvp.
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Wow, are we playing a new game ? Let-s-ignore- all-posts-above-and-post-my-own-idea-regardless-of-everything-that-has-been-said ? Oh wait. It's not a new game.
And you think that "repetable quests" like deliver meat jerky is kind of action that i will enjoy ingame? Do you think that this is the point of why i will return to the game? "Hello mr. Grisham, give me meat bag..." (after 30seconds with 100+ outdoorsman, in NCR) "i have meatballs from mr. Grisham, give me 100 coins". Oh, super, i enjoeyd it too much. Maybe i will find another hour which i can spend with doing this entertaiment works.
Where is teamwork with my old mates? Grisham? Or kill them all trainstation quest? Ehm, you are not serious, arent you Izual?
I create serious idea. Look, summer is comming, i dont think that this game is playing only nerds, who does not know what is sun, summer, hot weather and ice beer, nice girls, football etc.. So, ok, enjoy summer player migration to the real world.
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Well if you don't enjoy the game, you're free to leave, really, I don't really see the point here.
About enjoyable game, read my first post in this topic carefully, I didn't say that you should enjoy playing only because of the repeatable quests. Fact is, like in all RPG, you enjoy the most the fact your character is getting more and more skilled. About teamplay, ask the current teams if they enjoy playing in team (with teamplay), and we'll see.
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Don't you realize the problem isn't slow exping but the fact that the game encourages making pumped powerbuilds if you want to do any serious pvp. If you only have few hours per day to play this game you should suggest that everyone with a gun and knowledge about pvp should be able to participate in pvp.
True, true.
Only problem is that for it to work, either damage would need to be horribly reduced, or chance to one-shot kill any player increased. That's because in PvP only who dies matters, so unless you can cause others to die faster than you, you are cannon fodder in PvP.
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About enjoying game:
If others players both in gangs and loners can enjoy game and find it interesting and if you cant, maybe problem is in you not in game? Try to play in different style its role playing game after all :>
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Its not ONLY RP game.
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No. But it's a Role-Playing Game, as vedaras said.
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Well if you don't enjoy the game, you're free to leave, really, I don't really see the point here.
If I got 10 exp every time I see this sentence then I would be 21 lvl already. What argument is that? Why do you keep writing it every time someone says he is unsatisfied with FOnline? If we had wanted to leave this game then we wouldn't have cried about it at forums. We are trying to change things here and if you don't like it, you're free to not respond to them, really...
The thing is some changes has been made. But problem with them is they came way too prematurely since game lacks content and is very limited by it. And also the problem is that some of these changes are affecting certain groups of players way way more than others and thats why we are having these fights on forums. If crafters had to level all the way up to 21st lvl in order to craft best items then these topics would look completely differently. So tell me whats so bad on that we want to enjoy this game as we did in the past? Why not to make some compromises UNTIL more content is added? Then I think nobody will protest against slow exp if people will be able to get busy with many different and interesting things even as low levels but why on earth do we have such changes implemented now when the game is still more or less flat?
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for f sake cut the crap - its not some award wining record breaking mmo that needs to maximalise amount of players. Suggestiosn are welcomed and those go to suggestion forum. Whining is not , some people enjoy the game you dont understand that - your problem we are not here to convince you to play.
You are free to develop the game your way ... but wait it needs knowlage, time and dedication ...
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We are trying to change things here and if you don't like it, you're free to not respond to them, really...
Yeah, you know what ? I think that's what I'm going to do - and junking threads of course. After a hundred threads all saying the same things and after a thousand posts of ignoring the others, I finally understood why so few people are reading those useless and mindless arguments, and why nobody actually answers it ; because it's useless. Should have listened to that guy that told me not to waste my time posting in whining threads here. Yay, what a change you've done here Sius, amazing ! =)
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Man you rocks! :o
for f sake cut the crap - its not some award wining record breaking mmo that needs to maximalise amount of players.
And how does this have anything to do with my post? You think that making game more friendly for occasional/newbie/solo players is bad thing to do? Then think again...
Suggestiosn are welcomed and those go to suggestion forum. Whining is not , some people enjoy the game you dont understand that
WTF? I don't understand that some people enjoy the game? Man what drugs are you taking? Read first then reply. It works fine for others you might try it as well.
your problem we are not here to convince you to play.
Ah I see. Because I can't play FOnline every day for X hours then I should not be allowed to enjoy it?
How long does it take to add ingame content? And now how long does it take to change exp income so those players who don't enjoy FOnline right now would be back in the game again? First is in the best case matter of months. Second is matter of hours. Both result in FOnline being entertaining game for everyone. Finally got my point here or should I draw a picture for you?
You are free to develop the game your way ... but wait it needs knowlage, time and dedication ...
+10 exp.
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I have very limited time which i can spend in virtual entertaiment world. I wrote it up. So, i can invest few hours in some game and i cant find nothing entertaining if i spend it in fonline. If i will have more time, i will try to play like previous eras.. very quickly level up my combat char, so i can join PvP and then, when i have done my char, i will try to make another build and level it up in free time, where i am not in PvP or crafting in the base. This is my point of view on Fonline world. Stupid first gear quests is not the reason for playing this game. Only PvP, or some kind of team PvE (which does not exist after 9 months of this project, very very sad) is reason, why i will play this game. And of course, friends. But i will rather spend 3 hours in pub with my teamates, then 3 hours ingame, because of no benefit from this.
It is sad that this project made one big leap, but only very little step if you look second time.
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You rise the exp gain today and tomorrow people will whine there is nothign to do at 21 .. that they are max lv and still cant use best weapons coz they lose them so easily .. .that they want no-pk option ... that there should be more whatever...
it is like it is .. right ? ...you can suggest things .. right ? .... whining how much you doesnt like the system and how many players left doesnt change anything .. right ? ... so maybe instead of growing several pages long game whine threads for devs to read you would let them do some developing .. right ?
You think that making game more friendly for occasional/newbie/solo players is bad thing to do? Then think again...
You palayed other mmo maybe ? you would notice that even none mmo is ocasional/solo player friendly (newbie part can be solved by growing wiki and guides). The only way mmos are friednly to such players is when you buy account enjoy it and once you are done sell it
EDIT : @Lordus - like i said above with 3h played a week you should give up on MMOs unless you want to buy accounts (or get them in some other way hurm) Stick ot RTS FPP or solo-rpg
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You palayed other mmo maybe ? you would notice that even none mmo is ocasional/solo player friendly (newbie part can be solved by growing wiki and guides). The only way mmos are friednly to such players is when you buy account enjoy it and once you are done sell it.
Well, imagine situation, that i will want to join this game after 2 months and i will start to level up my char from level 1. There will be lvl21 PKs everywhere, so i will have to level my char twice a time than i will start it from wipe. Is this the purpose of this low leveling/healing etc. measures? To make harder contidions to players who will join the game later than other players?
I realy think that devs looking on this problem with static eyes, not dynamic.
You know, i dont spend money if i play this game, but i spend something more expensive: my time. And i dont know, why i need to spend many hours per day, if i want to do only real entertaining thing what fonline offers. (Do you imagine who played fonline one month before wipes? Most of them was PvP, because others left after few week of post wipe euphory.
Ok then, if developers wants this, make this game only for 10-20 yers old players, ok, thats their choice, but i heard that WoW is aimed on that scpetrum of playres. :/
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Well it really is pointless. These fights will lead us nowhere. If devs consider to apply some exp gain compromise I would like to know. Otherwise current season simply can't represent anything but work for me and thats not the reason why I should spend my time with FOnline. Its sad and I hate the fact that I will have to wait so long until this game with such a huge potential will reach "playable" version once again.
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i dont say i dont agree that it needs improvements just that the whine is too heavy.... my suggestion is try not to look at fonline as on game that you focus on. You can do alot of other stuff while playing - like watch TV , read book , browse net even play another game or do work if you are good at separating attention.
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i dont say i dont agree that it needs improvements just that the whine is too heavy.... my suggestion is try not to look at fonline as on game that you focus on. You can do alot of other stuff while playing - like watch TV , read book , browse net even play another game or do work if you are good at separating attention.
Please! Are the devs fine with that? Why are you nerfing exping so much while the other ways to exp are not finished yet?
For now, when you want to play PvP you need to spend whole day on crafting and exping. Why? Why can't we just have some more fun from that game?
What are you doing is nerfing occasional players and boosting big factions. The more you slower down exping, the bigger is the gape between no-lifers and normal players.
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There is no gape as far as level cap exists. You can be no-lifer and become 21 in N days, or you can just play and become 21 in N*M days. No-lifers should have their advantage too ::)
And to all "WHHYY?"s there is only one good answer: because this game belongs to them.
Devs are working at encreasing of exp gain by adding/separating groups of critters. Give them time.
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And to all "WHHYY?"s there is only one good answer: because this game belongs to them.
Devs are working at encreasing of exp gain by adding/separating groups of critters. Give them time.
Why they are nerfing exping then, when they haven't finished with the alternative ways of getting exp?
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Damn I hate to quote myself
because this game belongs to them
oh and may be because it is beta test?..
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I agree with autor of this topic. This game is to much time consumable at the moment. Pity, that every single talk about it i usually called "whining".
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I don't understand that some people enjoy the game? Man what drugs are you taking?
Over here!
And I'm clean, only some alcohol from time to time.
Stupid first gear quests is not the reason for playing this game. Only PvP, or some kind of team PvE (which does not exist after 9 months of this project, very very sad) is reason, why i will play this game. And of course, friends. But i will rather spend 3 hours in pub with my teamates, then 3 hours ingame, because of no benefit from this.
It is sad that this project made one big leap, but only very little step if you look second time.
I'm sure you are experienced player, it's beyond discussion. However I'm not sure what is your experience with new players, beginners, "noobs" if you like. "Stupid first gear quests", as you named them, are something what many newcomers are looking for in this game at the first time. Not PvP, they have too weak/missed chars fot that. Not PKing - who can you kill with a shovel? It may seem strange to you, disappointed but well-educated pure PvP player, but they are mostly really happy because of first shotgun ("crap", you could say) and simple jacket achieved by doing a quest. Yes, 100 xp for bringing item X to NPC Y can be funny and "no reason" for you, but you are not alone in this game, and obviously forgot how it is to begin without friends and gang right from the start.
I have work and family myself, and when I'm reading about making 21-lvl char in 48 hours, it is between cheating, magic and no-life for me. Still I believe that it's possible. I understand now why chars below 21-lvl are useless in PvP, yet I disagree that changes in this game leads to nowhere nor are pointless.
NTR - no-lifers will always have advantage in every MMO game, because they are no-lifers. It was before this wipe and earlier one, it will be always, like it or not. Gap between someone spending in game 8 hours / day and other one spending 5 hours / week is certain, just like advantage of PvP-char vs PvE/crafter-char in combat. It's just numbers, you will never balance it well enough to "punish" no-lifers somehow to protect regular players.
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I agree with autor of this topic. This game is to much time consumable at the moment. Pity, that every single talk about it i usually called "whining".
Almost all MMOs supposed to be time- and life- consumable. The only difference is time:fun ratio for you personally.
If I was Dev, I would create special topic where every single player could make only one post. Something like:
I think, this game is a waste of time/sucks/needs some improvements/is so lame/drains my life/has no fun/is too boring for pvp/whatever because:
1.
2.
...
And this is all, no discussions, no suggestion, no additional whine.
As for now we have tons of such topics, where we can hear the same thing over and over again: how much this game sucks and what a waste of time it is. I would have delete them.
Yes, if I dont like to read them, I dont have to. But, seriously, when you see them poping-up over and over again it sound more like whine than suggestion or discussion. And I belive this is my final post in such kind of topics.
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Wichura but its not about pushing no-lifers down. They were never the topic. You can't even think about anything like it or you will end up with bullshit restrictions like WoW has in some countries where if you play like for 3+ hours you will get your ingame char stats nerfed. Thats just unthinkable and absolutely wrong. If someone is a no-lifer and sacrifices a lot of time for this then let him have his reward.
Problem here is that regular player has to sacrifice same amount of time as no-lifer in order to get to 21 lvl. For no lifer its 2-5 day work but for others its 2+ weeks depending on their free time. I don't get this whole exp nerfing stuff. I mean whats the point of introducing it right now? What are pros of such decision? Balance leveling speed for future versions? Thats the only thing I could think as a reason why to introduce slower lvling, but with all that stuff going on around in beta its pretty much impossible to balance something like lvl speed right now (bugs, missing game content, possibilities of changes in mechanics etc.).When the game is released as "v 1.0" then it have to be a long run from 0 to max lvl thats for sure. And I wound not be scared even if that should take like 3 months even if you have a lot of free time for FOnline. But there is absolutely no point in doing it now and as a matter of a fact I think its even bad for beta. People can't test extremes and various builds because that would be incredible time sink even for no-lifers. They stick to what is effective and already well known.
Thats the irony about it. I don't know whats such a big deal here. Its beta, its meant to be tested yet devs are afraid to experiment. Changing exp income shouldn't be hard nor time consuming change and if it is changed for faster exp, then where are the cons of that? Maybe some people who enjoy mining and RP would rather level up slowly since they have fun ingame already but even this group of people can't be offended by such change. People who don't have enough time for the game would be able to level up faster and start doing things they enjoy ingame sooner and people who RP a lot could always try playing as 21 longer and maybe test even PvP or start a new char. And don't tell me that people who enjoy current FOnline for its PvE and RP possibilities are enjoying it because they are leveling up and as soon as they hit 21 its gets boring for them. They can do all they did as they were leveling up except there will be no next lvl after some time. Yes avatar development is an exiting thing but there again I simply don't see how could faster exp do any harm in current FOnline.
2 virus341: I agree with you but just that fact there are tons of such "whine" topics all over the forums suggest something. By gamers for gamers - so its either do something about it or let it be this way and ignore whiners.
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Sius, most of your posts makes sense, and I can't disagree with them.
The only thing I can't totally understand is the magic of 21 lvl. It is like Holy Grail.
Your character has no hands or is a disabled untill you reach it, he can't move, shot, or dig? You can do instant-kills already at lvl 9, with low chance, yes.
Yes, I'd like to test different builds and opportunities too, and it would be fun for me if I could get max lvl in 5-6 hours. But my point is that you are not a doll for a scapegoat (may be bad translation of what I meant), unless you reach lvl 21. It's just another expirience.
I can make an example. I'm playing with a friend of mine. We were lvl 9 and spent about 1.5-2. hours to craft some stuff. Then we began to gang around NCR, after 1 hour we tripled our stuff. That was cool and much fun. Next day we lost almost all we have ganged first day. So what? We are having our fun, we are spending our time, and we are not 21 lvls yet. The game is still awesome for us. Ofc, after a few days/weeks it will become boring, but thats what all games are about: to find something that you enjoy, and when its no more fun - find something else.
And, yes again, if exp gain rate would be higher, I wouldn't mind to test a lot of stuff.
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Sius - lets not start this "PvP<->RP" crap again, shall we?
I also wouldn't mind gaining XP to be faster - since wipe my char is on 13 lvl, that gives me like month+ to get 21 lvl I guess. If I would like to test some more builds instead of simply having fun, it will be real pain in the ass to "finish" more than one char with current leveling speed.
What I want to tell you or Lordus is, that there are more possibilities in this game than just PvP with 21-lvl chars. Yet I understand that when you've chosen this specified way of gaming, it will be extremely hard to adapt now, especially when amount of free time you can spend for a computer game is the same as before these changes.
Hell, I feel like convincing lions to eat carrot instead of meat :>
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All VSB gang is made of pure PvP players. That is the reason, why VSB exist. Every time, when devs add another restriction, people leave our faction. Kind of people, who made 10 combat chars in first era, 5 combat chars in second era. They were good teamates, very good players. They tested this game a lot and they had a fun from this. But from third era, from experience decreasing measure, many of them leave, because they did not want to spend most of their free time to have combat ready char.
Maybe, problem is somewhere else than in "magic level 21". Problem is, that in current combat system, where you can be killed by 3 bursts with minigun or by one instakill, you NEED to be lvl 18+ to play PvP. I suggested many changes. Well, is problem to create combat system where you will give dmg 20-50 instead of 70-120? Yes, it is, because you will have to reduce big guns, or "ban them", most people will have to use assault rifles (like in real army) instead of miniguns and rocket launchers.... I admit, that i dont have any experience from other MMORPG, but i think that if you design combat game (entertatining, not frustrating) you have 2 choices: quick death and very quick recovery or long fights. This game does not offers anything from my choices. Because of that, many players started to alting, fast reloging, making pure PvP char is obligatory if you want to raise your chance of survive by little percent. And developers, naturaly, restricted those game abusers, but they did not aim their focus on the core of the problem. It is like healing fewer using aspirin, but ignoring the pneumonia.
I admit, that there are kind of players, who are crafting, then they loose their stuff because quite better PK, maybe next day they will kill him, but i dont know, if this is the aimed spectrum of players for who is Fonline developed. Dont forget on PvP players, they are here in first week after wipe as well as last week before next one, so far.
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I was not trying to flame about PvP vs RP. I tried to see FOnline through the eyes of RP or PvE guys and how they could react on faster exp. And imho there is no harm done what so ever and changing exp right now could do only good. That was my point all the time and thats why I cry that loud. Easy change, no harm done, only positives... Maybe I'm missing something here but no matter how long I think about it I can't figure out what was the purpose for nerfing exp and what should be the outcome of that in current game state.
But for that 21 being like holy grail, well it pretty much is. Its essential for anyone who want to PvP on gang level. Problem with some smaller game activities here is that most of them were here since the beginning and people who play since OBT2 or even sooner been there done that. Some of them like it so they come back and do the stuff again but it really gets boring after first few months for others. Also huge problem with PvP now is people are using builds that simply count on the most effective way of character development and like 90% of PvP chars counts on Weapon handling and lifegiver(s) and that means 15-18 lvl perks to get in a busyness and start being real threat for other PvPers. And when you are once there and you are trying to beat your opponents then its simply escalation. They start using powerbuilds, we have to adapt. We start wearing CA/BA to every battle, they start using deadlier weapons etc... It takes hours to get yourself gear for your char that can be lost or doubled in matter of minutes.
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Experience rates are good now. You can't 'finish' the game in one day now any longer. MMOs by definition require you to spend weeks of your time to be good at something. Because otherwise you'd stop playing too soon. Not a good thing for a casual person, but that's MMOs.
What I see as a perfect solution to get rid of all problems with PvP is just create a PvP server or arena. Where players get 1000 experience just by shovelling one shit so they can be level 21 in no time. And traders are full of items costing 0 caps and respawning 10 a minute. There PvP guys can have fun for two hours and go away do other stuff in real life. And of course after a month the server or closed arena would be devoid of any life because players get bored of having everything in an instant and the actual gameplay requiring not much skill when compared to FPS games.
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What I see as a perfect solution to get rid of all problems with PvP is just create a PvP server or arena. Where players get 1000 experience just by shovelling one shit so they can be level 21 in no time. And traders are full of items costing 0 caps and respawning 10 a minute. There PvP guys can have fun for two hours and go away do other stuff in real life. And of course after a month the server or closed arena would be devoid of any life because players get bored of having everything in an instant and the actual gameplay requiring not much skill when compared to FPS games.
Brilliant idea, I am serious. pvp server could be good solution, all people would be satisfied. I dont think players would get bored, FOnline requires personal and also teamplay skills. If we add some kind of ladder for teams and add limitation for teams (lets say 5 players per team or so) it would never get boring imo... it would be neverending challenge with this system.
BTW, u might think Diablo 2 is stupid game and its pvp must be stupid too, but look, there are many pvp free servers only and they are full of people, tournaments/leagues etc. This system works fine since ages even for no pvp games. Its positive idea also because it would devide players into two servers --> less lags maybe.
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Brilliant idea, I am serious. pvp server could be good solution, all people would be satisfied. I dont think players would get bored, FOnline requires personal and also teamplay skills. If we add some kind of ladder for teams and add limitation for teams (lets say 5 players per team or so) it would never get boring imo... it would be neverending challenge with this system.
BTW, u might think Diablo 2 is stupid game and its pvp must be stupid too, but look, there are many pvp free servers only and they are full of people, tournaments/leagues etc. This system works fine since ages even for no pvp games. Its positive idea also because it would devide players into two servers --> less lags maybe.
My gangmate says he can pay for another server for an year in advance, provided it would be pure PvP server with no timeouts on crafting, no decreasing exp for critters, etc. More info soon.
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My gangmate says he can pay for another server for an year in advance, provided it would be pure PvP server with no timeouts on crafting, no decreasing exp for critters, etc. More info soon.
I can host quake server too.
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Well when server side files are released it would be good to establish some secondary server along with official 2238 server. I mean it should be hosted elsewhere but it should be somehow connected with 2238 so we will play under one roof with familiar people. Because it would be bad if there are like 10 PvP servers but every one of them with just 30-50 population.
Anyway it feel somehow strange to separate people into more servers. I would rather like to see one server that fits everyone instead of choosing between PvE and PvP servers. Also server side will not come with content that we are used to. It will be vanilla stuff but I doubt 2238 dev team will provide their files and changes they made to support PvP server but I hope I'm wrong about this one.
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And of course after a month the server or closed arena would be devoid of any life because players get bored of having everything in an instant and the actual gameplay requiring not much skill when compared to FPS games.
Naah, I think you are wrong. I don't play PvP, becuase it is boring to me and I'm too slow to be useful there, but many people I know have their "vision" of FOnline just like that: no timeouts, simplified crafting, no guarding towns, no reloging restrictions, some balance between BG-SG-EW and here we go. Guys, be patient (http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=3444.0), there is a light in your tunnel :>
Sius is right however, making too many servers could "kill" the community. But it don't have to - necessary is to make so good server rules, that people won't leave. Those with bad or stupid rules will die sooner or later, so the hell with them.
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I'm undecided about whether more servers will kill or increase the community. The community could get fractured as people break off to make their own personal FOnline, or the playerbase expands as servers open up for people with different tastes. When it comes down to it, I can't see there being that many people committed enough to actually make a server good enough for public play.
Only time will tell, I guess.
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With my idea I purposefully wanted to fragment the player base. Those who are interested only in PvP and abuse every way to get to level 21 as fast as possible can go to a server where level 21 is five minutes' work. Those who want to play like good noobs can stay on the normal server and enjoy non-nerfed exp gaining because all the no-life grinders grinding for 21 and PvP will be somewhere else.
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With my idea I purposefully wanted to fragment the player base. Those who are interested only in PvP and abuse every way to get to level 21 as fast as possible can go to a server where level 21 is five minutes' work. Those who want to play like good noobs can stay on the normal server and enjoy non-nerfed exp gaining because all the no-life grinders grinding for 21 and PvP will be somewhere else.
Only a Sith deals in absolutes.
You speak about PvP like its something evil that should be banished. Man its essential for most MMOs out there and it should also be part of any MMO that wants to have "Fallout" in its name.
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Only a Sith deals in absolutes.
You speak about PvP like its something evil that should be banished. Man its essential for most MMOs out there and it should also be part of any MMO that wants to have "Fallout" in its name.
That's true, but I only mean people who don't find anything apart from PvP interesting. It could be even beneficial in that the number of level 21 PvP chars will decrease and gang fights might start seeing random level people joining in because they stand a chance.
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That's true, but I only mean people who don't find anything apart from PvP interesting. It could be even beneficial in that the number of level 21 PvP chars will decrease and gang fights might start seeing random level people joining in because they stand a chance.
Its not PvPers fault if he wants to be better than others so he choses to powerbuild. If there is someone resp. something to blame then its the game itself that does not provide possibility for non-powerbuild PvP. Sure you can join as a regular guy but you will be an easy prey for others. I know its beta and all that stuff so don't even think about bringing those arguments here. All I'm saying that there is nothing wrong about PvP nor powerbuilds, they seem so bad because game mechanics don't allow anything in the middle between PvE and PvP.
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Well, gotta say, im real sceptical about making more than 1 server. Sucks. They should keep all the SDK to themselves and keep just 1 server, because really, there aint that much players for many servers to co-exist.