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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Giftless on May 09, 2013, 12:13:44 am

Title: New thoughts on BPs taken from TLA
Post by: Giftless on May 09, 2013, 12:13:44 am
The premise is simple:

Unlimited BPs can be found in the old ways, footlocker hunting and tough quests.
However, "limited" BPs could spawn in the barter window, such as a print to craft three sniper rifles.

I've noticed in TLA that the limited BPs do a good job of soaking up excess barter value, and due to the uncommon-ness of the respawn it's not like you can exploit them to craft limitless amounts of "the good stuff."

Basically the limited BPs give players another option for crafting and provides another reason for visiting the in-game merchants.
Title: Re: New thoughts on BPs taken from TLA
Post by: BenKain on May 09, 2013, 12:40:24 am
I really like this idea, especially when applied to 2238.
The lockers would make the unlimited BPs a hot commodity, and the generally non-standard BP hunters not necessarily, but a whole separate feature to increase the necessity or connivance of having PvE players in your faction or group.
It would also make it simpler for the PvP ape to grab the BPs he needs on the quick tip, and get back into the action, but on a more limited scale, as far as gear, than the people who have a BP hunter backing them up on the crafting front.
Title: Re: New thoughts on BPs taken from TLA
Post by: Sarakin on May 09, 2013, 02:41:42 am
If it was up to me, Id totally move whole BP concept that is on TLAmk2 here. I think its much or less flawless
Title: Re: New thoughts on BPs taken from TLA
Post by: Hololasima on May 09, 2013, 03:40:53 am
If it was up to me, Id totally move whole BP concept that is on TLAmk2 here. I think its much or less flawless

This

That concept actually truly works.
Title: Re: New thoughts on BPs taken from TLA
Post by: Eternauta on May 09, 2013, 04:05:51 am
It would be pretty nice to see any of those two suggestions (Giftless' or Sarakin's) in 2238.
Title: Re: New thoughts on BPs taken from TLA
Post by: JovankaB on May 09, 2013, 06:46:14 am
Perhaps we could simply add deterioration to BPs, shops could sell very deteriorated
blueprints and for every craft it could go down, depending on your skills (and I don't think
we would really need crafting professions then - someone with high SG skill should be able
to craft small guns from BP without deteriorating it much and dedicated crafter with high repair
and science could be just as good, but in crafting ALL kinds of weapons and armors). So
even 1 level character could craft something from any blueprint, in the worst case the BP
would just get destroyed after one use.

The problem is that the fact that crafting is in unsafe places anyway, it wouldn't make
blueprints with 100% condition worth much more for high skill crafter, because you wouldn't
craft that much at one time to destroy it with one visit anyway, so if you brought 100% BP,
you would just risk an item that was harder to get with no benefit whatsoever. Therefore people
would rather use poor quality BPs to craft things. Perhaps 50% or more deteriorated BPs should
result in weapons with deterioration?
Title: Re: New thoughts on BPs taken from TLA
Post by: Tomowolf on May 09, 2013, 09:35:11 am
The problem is that the fact that crafting is in unsafe places anyway, it wouldn't make
blueprints with 100% condition worth much more for high skill crafter, because you wouldn't
craft that much at one time to destroy it with one visit anyway, so if you brought 100% BP,
you would just risk an item that was harder to get with no benefit whatsoever. Therefore people
would rather use poor quality BPs to craft things. Perhaps 50% or more deteriorated BPs should
result in weapons with deterioration?
People will go farming, because that is easier, and that's it.
Nerfing the way around blueprint is stupid, let's take an example: every alt/player got his pipboy, it reads blueprint and boom, it's added to the memory card or its, and you can craft.
The ability to get those blueprints should just get more coooler, dunno, rare blueprints witch 3 uses spawning in TC box each 2 hours (If you stand there for 2 hours for example), or in shops but for a higher price.
Title: Re: New thoughts on BPs taken from TLA
Post by: JovankaB on May 09, 2013, 10:16:17 am
I don't think anyone said anything about nerfing.

And I don't think you should be required to do "Town Control" PvP and then stand
for 2 hours in a town for a possibility to get promoted to a crafter of a random item.
Title: Re: New thoughts on BPs taken from TLA
Post by: Tomowolf on May 09, 2013, 10:21:38 am
And I don't think you should be required to do "Town Control" PvP and then stand
for 2 hours in a town for a possibility to get promoted to a crafter of a random item.
Then TC needs improvement, being honest, everything needs.

Quote
I don't think anyone said anything about nerfing.

Quote
Perhaps 50% or more deteriorated BPs should
result in weapons with deterioration?
That would be a nerf to crafting and quite disgusting.
Title: Re: New thoughts on BPs taken from TLA
Post by: JovankaB on May 09, 2013, 10:38:07 am
I didn't say anything how the items could be obtained, what would be numbers etc, so calling
it a "nerf" is jumping to conclusions. For example if I wanted to craft a Mega Power Fist and
there was nobody to sell a BP to me, I would have to probably spend the whole next month
on grinding boxes - or in case of your idea to join a PvP gang and keep idling in TC towns for
days, hoping for the best.

If instead a 20% deteriorated Blueprint to craft a dozen of 30-40% Mega Power Fist could
be found in shops and if I could also take a PvE mission that takes maybe an hour and
rewards you with a 100% blueprint of your choice - and I could craft 50x 100% MPF and
another 50x of deteriorated ones, I wouldn't exactly call it a "nerf". I think it's different mechanics
that reduces huge, boring, one-time-in-a-session grinds and still keeps those items desirable.

You really should stop with the "nerf" bullshit, If we change damage of weapon from 20 to 15
then you can legitimately call it "nerf" not if we make overhaul of whole system which makes
some things easier and some other harder and everything just different.
Title: Re: New thoughts on BPs taken from TLA
Post by: Tomowolf on May 09, 2013, 10:39:52 am

If instead a 20% deteriorated Blueprint to craft a dozen of 30-40% Mega Power Fist could
be found in shops and if I could also take a PvE mission that takes maybe an hour and
rewards you with a 100% blueprint of your choice - and I could craft 50x 100% MPF and
another 50x of deteriorated ones, I wouldn't exactly call it a "nerf". I think it's different mechanics
that reduces huge, boring, one-time-in-a-session grinds and still keeps those items desirable.

You really should stop with the "nerf" bullshit, If we change damage of weapon from 20 to 15
then you can legitimately call it "nerf" not if we make overhaul of whole system which makes
some things easier and some other harder.
Still, farming will be better option, or you'll have to "nerf" it :P.

Look, like 80% of players on the server don't care about weapons that aren't widely used, so searching for BP like Mega Power Fist or SCP is pointless, better go with other weapons, because of their availability on the encounters or PvE locations, And you says about crafting 30 - 40% equipment, please, I can take you for a NCR army farming site, in 30 minutes I get 10 sets of CAmk2 repaired up to 60%, few lsws, m60s and tons of fn fals and hunting rifles for almost free, just shooting at them with bg tank.
I can argument other encounters, like Unity, Super Mutant Remnants, Hubololo, Press Gang, VC patrol, Hub Patrol.
Everything you can get way faster, way more funnier, and way efficient than crafting, and you say about crafting detoriated shit, please, don't set me off.

I want to admit that I've been playing "crafters" way for over 2 years, and when the blueprint era came, it was so stupid and undone feature, that I had to move to the "farming" way which is just a lot better, deal with it or not, I don't know if you know how to farm and only way for you to get equipment is crafting.
Title: Re: New thoughts on BPs taken from TLA
Post by: davrot on May 09, 2013, 11:04:36 am
If those lesser BPs required lesser amount of materials to craft the desired items that would be good, otherwise don't even bother.
Title: Re: New thoughts on BPs taken from TLA
Post by: Tomowolf on May 09, 2013, 11:06:25 am
If those lesser BPs required lesser amount of materials to craft the desired items that would be good, otherwise don't even bother.
Already crafting materials are enormous, you need quite same amount of mats to craft P90 as LSW, that's just hilarous.
Title: Re: New thoughts on BPs taken from TLA
Post by: greenthumb on May 09, 2013, 11:16:43 am
Well maybe offtopic but...

Since crafting most of the expensive stuff is doable only via AWB, it should be transformed into factory machine and for crafting every single item should require certain amount of energy, which you can buy(with caps) right in the place or using MFC on the machine. This certain amount of energy would be influenced with your crafting skill(SG,EW,Repair...) aswell as complexity of crafting item. Quite good substitution for BP costs. Once you are skilled crafter you should be able to deal with Machine owners to gain crafting privilegie to craft certain items with free energy. They would distribute energy to machine every time you would need craft certain type of Weapon/armor...
Title: Re: New thoughts on BPs taken from TLA
Post by: Tomowolf on May 09, 2013, 11:18:40 am
Well maybe offtopic but...

Since crafting most of the expensive stuff is doable only via AWB, it should be transformed into factory machine and for crafting every single item should require certain amount of energy, which you can buy(with caps) right in the place or using MFC on the machine. This certain amount of energy would be influenced with your crafting skill(SG,EW,Repair...) aswell as complexity of crafting item. Quite good substitution for BP costs. Once you are skilled crafter you should be able to deal with Machnes owner to gain privilegie craft certain items with free energy. They would distribute energy to machine every time you would need craft certain type of Weapon/armor...
Only equipment you need to craft nowadays are Super Stimpaks, AP rockets, Tesla Armor/Tesla Helmet, 5mm ap ammo, 7.62 (can be easily farmed) .223 (can be easily farmed too).
And that's it, rest can be farmed.
The only thing detoriates there is Tesla Armor.
Title: Re: New thoughts on BPs taken from TLA
Post by: greenthumb on May 09, 2013, 11:25:11 am
Plasma nades, Frag nades, MFC, SEC, Combat armors and metal armors MKII(aswell), Improved flamers... Even drugs are craftable today.

Still most of these are farmable too, but most of them with lesser efficiency than Mass Crafting(except CA)
Title: Re: New thoughts on BPs taken from TLA
Post by: Tomowolf on May 09, 2013, 11:28:52 am
Plasma nades, Frag nades, MFC, SEC, Combat armors and metal armors MKII(aswell), Improved flamers... Even drugs are craftable today.

Still most of these are farmable too, but most of them with lesser efficiency than Mass Crafting(except CA)
Drugs --- shops.
SEC --- press gang/mercenaries
Frag nades also
So I count as craftables Plasma nades and MFC, but those are mega easily to craft.
MAmk2? You can use CAmk2, way easier to kill NCR Army than collect mats for it and craft 10 of them.
Improved flamers - Imho they should be available to make w/o blueprint, because it's stupid to get blueprint for that (I have it though).

Just to make things clear
3-4 hours of farming 48~~ sets of CAmk2(all 60% - 80% det)

Title: Re: New thoughts on BPs taken from TLA
Post by: Sarakin on May 09, 2013, 07:19:52 pm
If it was up to me, Id totally move whole BP concept that is on TLAmk2 here. I think its much or less flawless
For those who dont know how it works on TLAmk2, Id like to elaborate. There are 3 tiers of blueprints:
Low tier bps have no level requirement, are pretty common and come with unlimited batches.
Medium tier bps have level requirement, are somewhat uncommon and come with limited batches, around 2-5.
High tier bps obviously have max lvl requirement, are rare/very rare and come always in 1 batch.

Sources of BPs are various - traders, pve locations, pve/pvp locations...
Title: Re: New thoughts on BPs taken from TLA
Post by: JovankaB on May 09, 2013, 07:34:44 pm
You need a BP to craft stuff like 10mm pistol?
Title: Re: New thoughts on BPs taken from TLA
Post by: Sarakin on May 09, 2013, 07:41:52 pm
For very basic items, you dont need. Like I said, low tier bps are common and easy to get.
Title: Re: New thoughts on BPs taken from TLA
Post by: JovankaB on May 09, 2013, 07:44:44 pm
Are high tier items used in PvP? How hard/time consuming is it to make top tier weapon?
Title: Re: New thoughts on BPs taken from TLA
Post by: Floodnik on May 09, 2013, 08:04:28 pm
My only thought about BPs was to remove them. BPs only mean more grinding.
I'm thinking of making a crafter character to create high tier stuff, but to to this I have to create a lockpicking character to obtain BPs
but who cares
Title: Re: New thoughts on BPs taken from TLA
Post by: FrankenStone on May 09, 2013, 08:37:24 pm
Are high tier items used in PvP? How hard/time consuming is it to make top tier weapon?

well i think its very time consuming , and i think that top tier weapons are used in PvP , just depend on how much your faction have of it , but its sure an advantage ...

also at global farming locations u get better loot but thats the thing its PvP and its not easy , so u cant do it alone or with a small group , u need some good team and adv. gear for it , no doubt , so i think its very well balanced .

its like how an mmorpg should be like , u can do shit on your own but u get much more out of it when u are not alone ...
Title: Re: New thoughts on BPs taken from TLA
Post by: SmallGreg on May 09, 2013, 09:01:21 pm
My ideas about blueprints and crafting:

Title: Re: New thoughts on BPs taken from TLA
Post by: Sarakin on May 09, 2013, 09:22:20 pm
Are high tier items used in PvP? How hard/time consuming is it to make top tier weapon?
Frankly, we dont have much PvP experience, maybe SoT would give you more accurate answer. Were PvPing in mid-tier weapons, the most powerful gangs use high-tier (but cant tell how many of them they have). Powered armors Ive seen using only once, by the most powerful faction there.

The reason - high-tier is time and mats consuming and even though you can acquire some via trading or questing, crafted weapons can have bonus stats like min/max dmg. Its not that you require lots of mats (in fact you do, but most of them are rather easy to get) but high-tier require special rare mats that are very hard to get. Every high-tier item has a value and if the item has  good stats, its priceless.
Title: Re: New thoughts on BPs taken from TLA
Post by: FrankenStone on May 09, 2013, 09:33:04 pm
well ive seen alot of PvP videos on youtube and there they used most time high tier weapons like bombard and shit , not everytime best armor but there were also videos where alot of guys with PAs and Adv. PAs standing there ...

yeah like i said its very time consuming , mats not easy to get or to craft for high tier stuff , plus the crafting machines for better shit are in unguarded areas ...
Title: Re: New thoughts on BPs taken from TLA
Post by: Tomowolf on May 10, 2013, 03:12:59 pm
Are high tier items used in PvP? How hard/time consuming is it to make top tier weapon?
Depends, you only need to craft Superstims and maybe drugs and ammo, rest is farmable (avengers, gatlings, sniper/laser/plasma rifles, zookas, lsw, m60).
One person can do this alone by using sandboxie taxi + fighter in TB, mostly you lose nothing, sometimes some ss and ammo (on NCR army you practically lose nothing if you use m60 and looted ammo/guns).
For a player that know's how to get stuff, crafting is HARDER than farming, because it's more time consuming and you've got bigger chance to meet other players that just want to take your new shiny things.
Items in fonline, especially crafted aren't efficient, because you can die easily by encounter/bug/connection drop/bluesuit/anything, and you'll lose it, and after lost of farmed item you won;t cry so much.

Crafting also is boring and needs alts, even harder to lvl up than fighter ones (to enter sierra you need sniper and to craft you need crafter, if you want to make hybrid, then you need other ccrafter alts for other professions, instead I prefer going to NCR army/unity which is more fun and you learn some tactics etc, by crafting you learn nothing but patience).

If you talk about TLAmk2 I can answer too, my friends from SQ play there, they got one chracter for crafting everything, walking around etc. and their fighter alts use looted weapons but crafted armors for PVP.
Stuff is way easier to get there even than on 2238.
Title: Re: New thoughts on BPs taken from TLA
Post by: the underground on May 10, 2013, 09:31:34 pm
Hear me out before you say no......

There are several items that can't be crafted 'right now.' Make THOSE items the deteriorating bps, at a reasonable rate, then leave everything else alone. Dont change the ratio of 'standard' bps in footlockers, don't deteriorate them, none of that.
As to those 'standard' bps, sllow say every day or so a random merchant to have a random bp...... then everyone (but me) would be clamoring for the merchsnts trying to find who has what today......