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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => General Game Discussion => Topic started by: Opera on February 13, 2013, 12:52:32 pm

Title: The problem with this game
Post by: Opera on February 13, 2013, 12:52:32 pm
As we all probably know that there's a lot of shitpoststorms. Some players are mad about the changes made to the game and about the changes that are not made to the game. There are a lot of suggestions made by the players and some of them would change the game quite drastically, but still sound pretty interesting to try out. I think the problem is that we don't know what kind of game devs really want to make. That's why there're suggestions that would take the game away from the "original path", like One Alt Crusade (http://fodev.net/forum/index.php/topic,27391.0.html). I'm not saying that's a bad suggestion - I personally like it - but we don't know is this what the devs are looking for.

If the devs made an introduction topic for 2238 explaining what kind of game this is, it could help players to make suggestions that help you to achieve your goal. What features you can expect (now or later)? What kind of PvP and PvE? What's the goal? ModDB (http://www.moddb.com/games/fonline-2238) page is out there, but it doesn't really feel what the game really offers. As the game is still beta, it would be helpful to have a more "technical introduction" about your goals.

Well, these are my thoughts about the main problem this game has. Your turn.
Title: Re: The problem with this game
Post by: racoon on February 13, 2013, 03:13:16 pm
where is faction mod, pvp game going with updates like grave digging or brahmins getting angry when you shovel their shit, and devs who are browsing www through tor? its going to die because lack of players
Title: Re: The problem with this game
Post by: Opera on February 13, 2013, 04:07:59 pm
Quote from: racoon on February 13, 2013, 03:13:16 pm
where is faction mod, pvp game going with updates like grave digging or brahmins getting angry when you shovel their shit, and devs who are browsing www through tor? its going to die because lack of players

Like I said, we don't really know what kind of game devs want to make. Before starting to complain about features etc, we should first know what this game is really about.
Title: Re: The problem with this game
Post by: Gimper on February 13, 2013, 04:12:54 pm
Quote from: Opera on February 13, 2013, 04:07:59 pm
Like I said, we don't really know what kind of game devs want to make. Before starting complaining about features etc, we should first know what this game is really about.
I agree. If the devs wanted players to like the game, they would listen to these suggestions instead of just letting the posts get old and die. They obviously have some sort of goal or preset thought of what Fo2238 is going to be, otherwise they would be more attentive and open to players and their suggestions. Fonline is the DEV'S game not the player's game. We want to know what it's gonna be like once its finished.
Title: Re: The problem with this game
Post by: Opera on February 13, 2013, 04:31:48 pm
Quote from: Gimper on February 13, 2013, 04:12:54 pm
I agree. If the devs wanted players to like the game, they would listen to these suggestions instead of just letting the posts get old and die. They obviously have some sort of goal or preset thought of what Fo2238 is going to be, otherwise they would be more attentive and open to players and their suggestions. Fonline is the DEV'S game not the player's game. We want to know what it's gonna be like once its finished.

Indeed. If devs share their vision about what 2238 is, it helps players to make suggestions to support their goals.

We can be quite sure that devs want these in 2238:
- PvP almost everywhere
- You drop everything on death
- Quests, dialogs etc

Those are totally OK, if those are one of the goals. They are kinda achieved already, but there's at least one problem: You don't want to die and you certainly don't want to lose all your items. If you are in an unguarded city talking to a NPC, you would like to read the dialogs, but it's much safer to just choose the right answers to get a quest and leave the place ASAP.

That's just an example of what probably needs to be fixed somehow, but before starting to suggest things to fix these things, players need to know what devs want.
Edit: Without knowing what devs want, players will suggest things like "don't lose everything on death", "disable pvp in some places" etc. Cool suggestions, but probably have a conflict with the goals.
Title: Re: The problem with this game
Post by: JovankaB on February 13, 2013, 04:44:10 pm
If you really did not figure it out by yourself after all those years, here is the moment of truth for you.


Any suggestions are welcome.



PS. I'm still waiting for people with those definitive, elegant and detailed plans for a new server to deliver.

All I can say is what I personally consider core attributes of 2238, which should be IMHO preserved:
 - eclecticism (in gameplay)
 - rawness
 - freedom
 - open world
Title: Re: The problem with this game
Post by: Opera on February 13, 2013, 04:53:26 pm
I'm not a game developer, but if I started make a game, I would make kinda detailed plan about what I want to make. Takes a while to write one, but saves time later.
Title: Re: The problem with this game
Post by: Grizzan on February 13, 2013, 05:50:52 pm
this game became totally unplayable shit since jovankab started to add useless to game shit, and spawning stuff to kitty. and mayck, banning random people for no reason. i hope this "game" will die soon. and, stop begging for donations poor devs.
Title: Re: The problem with this game
Post by: DocAN. on February 13, 2013, 06:07:31 pm
(http://s18.postimage.org/ore18xyvd/2238concept.jpg)
Title: Re: The problem with this game
Post by: August on February 14, 2013, 12:31:38 am
I don't get why you guys are all acting as if the dev's actually owe you anything. They don't make a penny from this game and the most any of you have done is throw a couple bucks their way. I'm not saying I like whats going on with the game but I'm not going to act like an entitled asshole who figures that he knows everything and that he could make the game better. If any of you actually think you could do better, well then go build your own Fallout game.
(http://www.memes.at/faces/bloody_keyboard.gif)
Condescending/rage replies to come...
Title: Re: The problem with this game
Post by: Opera on February 14, 2013, 01:07:08 am
Quote from: August on February 14, 2013, 12:31:38 am
I don't get why you guys are all acting as if the dev's actually owe you anything. They don't make a penny from this game and the most any of you have done is throw a couple bucks their way. I'm not saying I like whats going on with the game but I'm not going to act like an entitled asshole who figures that he knows everything and that he could make the game better. If any of you actually think you could do better, well then go build your own Fallout game.

All I'm doing is asking for more info about the goals to make it easier for players to help devs. I'm not saying that I would make a better game. I think that the people working on this game are skilled, but it is difficult to suggest things to help them to achieve their goals. I think having a plan for a project is a good thing to have.

But in the end, it's their game and they shall do anything with it. I'm not complaining about what they do.
Title: Re: The problem with this game
Post by: Vile on February 14, 2013, 04:05:38 am
I think the true issue is the loose organization. None is holding the reigns . If none leads the way, there's no plan and no definite direction, brings advantages and disadvantages. That was always a feat of the rotators. Adding to the general confusion is the fact, that the ones, as it seems, doing the most work atm are new devs like jovanka. I doubt there's any vision of the "final" game, If it was ever meant to be finished, there might be some guidelines, but thats all.
Consult her picture, its a pretty realistic evaluation.

Quote from: August on February 14, 2013, 12:31:38 am
I don't get why you guys are all acting as if the dev's actually owe you anything. They don't make a penny from this game and the most any of you have done is throw a couple bucks their way.
The same rotten old argument over and over. Guess what, there's something anyone owes to everyone. They owe players informations on whether they work at the game at the moment or not and at what extent, something like "well duhh we have enough stuff to do in our real lifes and no time to fix it now, so it will take a long while" is not much asked for.
 It's called "taking responsibility". That's what humans do, even without "making a penny". Responsibility for the quality of their brainchild and expectations people put into it,  done by clarifying their plans and actions, so all hopes do not turn into disappointments and the realization that you wasted your time waiting for something that used to be self-explanatory and something that has been turned into poo eventually. Guess where most players frustration and indifference comes from. Exactly !
If people would stop taking their "wasteland is harsh , I'm an ego and gotta force it through" bullshit and act like reasonable beings once in a while, the general rage would be reduced to a minimum.

Besides Opera has done QUITE a bit for the community, dare not to defame him. Without him you would be plotting your builds on a calculator.

Quote from: August on February 14, 2013, 12:31:38 am
I'm not saying I like whats going on with the game but I'm not going to act like an entitled asshole who figures that he knows everything and that he could make the game better. .
Better so, knowing everything, that's not you. Leave it to people who are able to argue constructively. Besides, flipping my name in your signature doesn't make your horrible lack of maturity less severe or your wits look better.

Title: Re: The problem with this game
Post by: August on February 14, 2013, 04:39:52 am
Quote from: Vile on February 14, 2013, 04:05:38 am
I think the true issue is the loose organization. None is holding the reigns . If none leads the way, there's no plan and no definite direction, brings advantages and disadvantages. That was always a feat of the rotators. Adding to the general confusion is the fact, that the ones, as it seems, doing the most work atm are new devs like jovanka. I doubt there's any vision of the "final" game, If it was ever meant to be finished, there might be some guidelines, but thats all.
Consult her picture, its a pretty realistic evaluation.
The same rotten old argument over and over. Guess what, there's something anyone owes to everyone. They owe players informations on whether they work at the game at the moment or not and at what extent, something like "well duhh we have enough stuff to do in our real lifes and no time to fix it now, so it will take a long while" is not much asked for.
 It's called "taking responsibility". That's what humans do, even without "making a penny". Responsibility for the quality of their brainchild and expectations people put into it,  done by clarifying their plans and actions, so all hopes do not turn into disappointments and the realization that you wasted your time waiting for something that used to be self-explanatory and something that has been turned into poo eventually. Guess where most players frustration and indifference comes from. Exactly !
If people would stop taking their "wasteland is harsh , I'm an ego and gotta force it through" bullshit and act like reasonable beings once in a while, the general rage would be reduced to a minimum.

Besides Opera has done QUITE a bit for the community, dare not to defame him. Without him you would be plotting your builds on a calculator.
Better so, knowing everything, that's not you. Leave it to people who are able to argue constructively. Besides, flipping my name in your signature doesn't make your horrible lack of maturity less severe or your wits look better.


(http://rlv.zcache.ca/obama_2012_not_bad_poster-r704cb19a88d44e0a8b4073621447b3df_wvm_400.jpg)
Well for one I am not going after Opera, his post was reasonable and was a nice change from the "devs suck doggy dick why u no let meh farm powa arma?" and your post (although I do not agree with some of it) was well thought out so I'll take your name out of my signature. My reason for that post was because of Grizzan's post.
Title: Re: The problem with this game
Post by: Giftless on February 14, 2013, 05:28:55 am
Here's two big questions for FOnline:

1. What is the relationship between PvP and PvE, and how can they be integrated in a complementary fashion?
2. How do you balance a game that features both real-time and turn-based play styles?

Here's what I notice in the economic dimension of FOnline. PvP gangs are the major consumers and help drive the economy. To keep PVP interesting, there should be new maps added periodically and some sort of reward that allows them to purchase gear from other players.

On the other end of the spectrum, PvE players should be furnished with more quest content and variety in random encounters, so effectively the process of farming for gear becomes more interesting and TB players can have their chess problems.

Lastly, there should be some major balancing when it comes character types and equipment. Make some sketches of a dozen "ideal" character classes, then objectively determine whether their build requirements are reasonable and whether they are fun to play.

Example of a fun character to play: A thief with light armor, some dodging abilities, and some backstab. 150 lockpick can open most common chests and doors. Some usefulness in combat-- not as powerful as a high HP tank, and by the same token not overpowered by AC or jinxed that causes misses every time. A character like this could work in a party of other players, if all characters & enemies were balanced and there was some curbing to the min/max disease. A dev should not require a 300% for doing a task in a game, nor should stats be tweaked to the extreme by players without major penalties. ST of 1 and PE of 1 is utter bullshit for any player character, you'd be confined to a hospital bed with stats like this!
Title: Re: The problem with this game
Post by: Phallus Erectus on February 18, 2013, 08:08:50 pm
Two things

PvP: yes, it is fairly easy to find a pistol and start shooting, good going devs.

PvE: NO, it is too hard to kill late levels because I can't sneak and they have way crazy longer range guns like OMG a point higher caliber pistol OMG it's Fallout everyone play nice!
Title: Re: The problem with this game
Post by: Phallus Erectus on February 18, 2013, 08:14:38 pm
I think I can actually realize the realizations we are all coming too. This is a roleplaying game fit into a square hole with us circular dikkks  ;D

Trying to pretend you are badass and killing foools left and right gains exp but soon you run out of bullets and are hog whoring the mine. What you need is a broader base to chat upon, this forum, to gain friends in the other SPECIAL world, so you can continue pouring bullets like a maniac.

The PROBLEM with this game is that all those people with the broader chat base are gaining levels like it's only 20 mags to the next tier, and it continues, kill/bullet-wise, to require less and less "skill" or I like to call it "bullet-consumption."

Honestly, the only thing that could really set this game a new bar of greatness, would be random and really minor loot drops giving the player a few bullets, or even a shoddy pistol with few bullets in the mag. You know free stuff overlooked by the elites cause, hey, it's a big world and people drop lots and lots of fucking bullets. If I could just find a few more cartridges and maybe a little more dusting of gunpowder on those piles of junk I'm always picking up, maybe my bullet crafting output could increase so I can continue being the bluesuit bitch who everyone profits from killing.

The last thing on my list, please get rid of Right Between the Eyes. It is a single perk celarly meant for class specialization, but the only thing it does is decrease the use of helmets. Now I'm stuck with a choice for my sneaky sniper, either Silent Death for when shit really hits the fan, or RBtE for that all too centered and really useless helmet muncher perk. The clear choice is RBtE, but at least make it affect non-cushioned :P craniums. Surely you guys have been bouncing ideas around. Actually, just planned the char and the answer is both, thoguh fuck the Ghost perk.
Title: Re: The problem with this game
Post by: Brujah on February 19, 2013, 12:16:19 am
Quote from: Phallus Erectus on February 18, 2013, 08:14:38 pm
The last thing on my list, please get rid of Right Between the Eyes. It is a single perk celarly meant for class specialization, but the only thing it does is decrease the use of helmets. Now I'm stuck with a choice for my sneaky sniper, either Silent Death for when shit really hits the fan, or RBtE for that all too centered and really useless helmet muncher perk. The clear choice is RBtE, but at least make it affect non-cushioned :P craniums. Surely you guys have been bouncing ideas around. Actually, just planned the char and the answer is both, thoguh fuck the Ghost perk.

So you want to selfishly get rid of a perk entirely just because you can't decide between which perk to take for a build that it's alredy shit?
Title: Re: The problem with this game
Post by: Phallus Erectus on February 23, 2013, 12:19:25 pm
Quote from: Brujah on February 19, 2013, 12:16:19 am
So you want to selfishly get rid of a perk entirely just because you can't decide between which perk to take for a build that it's alredy shit?

It should be improved. It is one perk that makes only helmets into mush, ta-da, I'm a damn wizard sniper, end-tape.

The problem with this game is that there are literally a few types of players(far from roleplaying), newbs, newb stealers, newb idlers, wealthy forum gangs, craft alts.
Title: Re: The problem with this game
Post by: mrbrain30 on February 24, 2013, 02:52:12 am
I think Opera made a really good point. To help the game advance We should know what it meant to be.

But I don't think We will ever see the devs making their stand about this. If they wanted to tell us they would have done so already. I think even they don't know anymore.

Still I'm hopefull they know what they are doing.
Title: Re: The problem with this game
Post by: BenKain on February 24, 2013, 02:56:15 am
Quote from: Brujah on February 19, 2013, 12:16:19 am
So you want to selfishly get rid of a perk entirely just because you can't decide between which perk to take for a build that it's alredy shit?

Yeah, that... Seriously, the game is not going to mold to you, so buck up and play it instead of whining... Or you could just gtfo.