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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Blerter on January 21, 2013, 04:20:35 pm
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I believe shotguns (as they have low burst amount and you can not aim while bursting) should have a critcal chance separate on each bullet (max 35% with finesse 10lk more crits and even more crits) the burst should have (dependant on the burst count) -hp popping out of them as individual damage eg. pancor will have -x damage popping out the enemy 5 times insead of -x damage once. This will make a shotgun burst very unique and add to the use as there is no DR modulator with its ammo and it is 6ap for a burst.
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I think that shotguns have receive a nice buff at the last update. And it's good so, they do cool damage, you cant hope do pvp with a single shotgun. Try to rush with a tank small guns+ pancor jackhamer and you will see that shotguns works good =)
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You have to get within 6 hexes for the gun to be of any use if you do a pancake against a bger will do 45 Damage per burst and that's only if you get within 6 hexes
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I think that shotguns have receive a nice buff at the last update. And it's good so, they do cool damage, you cant hope do pvp with a single shotgun. Try to rush with a tank small guns+ pancor jackhamer and you will see that shotguns works good =)
Shotguns are not viable in PvP stop
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But they would be with my suggestion.
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Hardly. Crit shotgun isn't any good if you can't get bypasses. And most builds have 4 or more luck which means you won't be getting them. So your crits would do about as much damage as avenger build does by default.
Shotguns need HQ ammo with either higher dmg multiplier or armor bypassing abilities.
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Spray and pray will go perfect with my suggestion avv
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Shotguns are not viable in PvP stop
In 1vs1? not sure. With a pancor, and a good critical chance, the big gun have no chance to shoot you at 1 hex.
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Hardly. Crit shotgun isn't any good if you can't get bypasses. And most builds have 4 or more luck which means you won't be getting them. So your crits would do about as much damage as avenger build does by default.
Shotguns need HQ ammo with either higher dmg multiplier or armor bypassing abilities.
" HQ ammo", that sounds really good, i think it can be a very nice idea, like in fallout tactics for example!
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In 1vs1? not sure. With a pancor, and a good critical chance, the big gun have no chance to shoot you at 1 hex.
He don't need, just from dmg dealting he will win :P
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We are not having a debate on the viability of shotguns in PvP because they are not we are talking about HOW to make them viable
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Bean Bag Ammo, -1 ap single shot(4), 100% KD(subject to stonewall), +100%dr (make shotgun a support class for pvp, also possibly slavers.)
Slugs: have -50% dr, cause 1 ap loss to target per bullet
Dragons Breath: Fire damage, subject to pyro perk.
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Oh god they sound goood :D
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But they would be with my suggestion.
No. Tying shotguns to critical builds only and even then with some randomized damage what could be achieved more easily, yet simple damage output increase is far from enough to ensure viability.
Better DR modifier for ammunition against armored targets, that is done simply by increasing the amount of DR the ammunition negates, knock-back effect working on full range with twice less efficiency or picture perfect based on distance keeping the 6 hex rule or and after the distance of the 6 hex rule in ideal version it would convert to knockdown not knock-back. Knockdown because it allows other sources of offense to lock on the target more easily, making it a more effective weapon as knock-back in most cases also will disallow further damage output due to the low range of the shotgun.
That might not be enough, shotguns might need few hexes of love concerning range, literally few.
Then maybe and ONLY maybe in specific locations and maps where close range combat is common, specialized builds could be utilized with a high tier shotgun in hands.
If it all fails you attach this one.
On top of that each knock-back could deplete the opponent of, for example, 1-2 action point/s
That's after 1 burst not ...
1 ap loss to target per bullet
I hope you don't mean it for bullet in each burst, 5 AP burst hitting 6 bullets decreasing 6 AP ...
Look, shotguns need to be viable not retarded imbalanced.
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I think Roachers beanbag ammo is what shotguns NEED
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Bean Bag Ammo, -1 ap single shot(4), 100% KD(subject to stonewall), +100%dr
Re-invented grenades that deals no damage with less range (with heave ho, grenades have more range).
Amazing.
I think Roachers beanbag ammo is what shotguns NEED
I'd like to not express offense, but you people crack me up. ;D
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Grenades dont take 1 ap, your well known stance of miniguns should win every fight because they go boom boom boom has been noted and ignored.
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Okay t888 you fucking know it all can you aim with grenade? no can you aim with a single shot on a shotty? yes this makes Crits coupled with the 100% KNOCKBACK (not grenades KNOCKDOWN) completely different also different AP. Thank you, come again.
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Grenades dont take 1 ap, your well known stance of miniguns should win every fight because they go boom boom boom has been noted and ignored.
And that will make all the difference in the world ...
Understand this, just better damage or only action point reduction, or only knock-back/knockdown is not going to make the weapon viable by applying these features separately and not especially if you overbalance these factors. What does that mean?
Bean Bag Ammo, -1 ap single shot(4), 100% KD(subject to stonewall), +100%dr (make shotgun a support class for pvp, also possibly slavers.)
Compare to shotguns now, you deny any damage they had by putting something else to it, alright it is something unique, but you don't buff the shotgun that way. You trade one advantage for another, you overbalance it and it won't be any more viable than it currently is.
Combining mechanics is key in order to make the weapon unique and flexible, though it needs a buff so you don't take anything off it, not something else with the same scale of balance that currently exists.
I don't know how else to explain it.
Okay t888 you fucking know it all can you aim with grenade?
It was implemented a year ago, then I though it might change something with the usage and popularity of grenades, make them more effective, but truth is that option, respectively to hex throw them has zero impact on their efficiency.
your well known stance of miniguns should win every fight because they go boom boom boom has been noted and ignored.
I gave my best current solution to make shotguns viable, you don't have to be so biased and jump to conclusions like this one, I want the same thing as you do, but I sure see a non-viable solution what you suggested.
Besides I'm more known for trying to move mountains with ideas and words. :)
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Aim as in aim at a part of the body t888 that would be the advantage of bean bag ammo, push them back 6 or so hexes and cripple them it would be perfect as a support build.
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Grenades actually better that you don't push them back, but lock them down and make them static vulnerable targets.
There was utterly no mention of crippling in that suggestion.
Why support? Why not a fully capable weapon? Why do you want to choose the inferior solution?
Besides you are not fully reading or understanding what I write and why that kind of solution won't change anything for shotguns. Nobody is going to implement something what will not bring any positive results.
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A different and viable way of using/supporting is a positive result and the bean bag suggestion and crippling with bean bag ammo would be a very fun and positively useful build.
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+1 OP
shot for shot
http://www.google.ca/imgres?start=267&hl=en&safe=off&sa=X&tbo=d&biw=1600&bih=769&tbm=isch&tbnid=LFVz6L6UcaaRjM:&imgrefurl=http://www.thisiswhyimbroke.com/shotgun-12-gauge-shot-glass&docid=qqxkHiacB9zu8M&imgurl=http://tiwibzone.tiwib.netdna-cdn.com/images/shotgun-shot-glasses.jpg&w=300&h=250&ei=p9j9UKaWGc7migLIg4FQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=370&vpy=242&dur=416&hovh=151&hovw=181&tx=130&ty=82&sig=106530388209373957873&page=7&tbnh=151&tbnw=181&ndsp=44&ved=1t:429,r:78,s:200,i:238
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A different and viable way of using/supporting is a positive result and the bean bag suggestion and crippling with bean bag ammo would be a very fun and positively useful build.
Okay, let us try differently, I stop explaining since you don't read anything, but now explain to me why, do you know how to even argument it? Why such a build would be viable?
I sure don't know how to defend such a build, I know how PvP goes and there is not a single chance that kind of build would be usable.
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Sneaker will be able to shoot- crit- knockdown opponent and return into sneak mode without having to go anywhere as if someone is knocked down you can go back into sneak mode.
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Guns that take control away from players are not good game design. Current shotgun burst is rather okay - but not tested much - because its ap cost is high. For same reason rocket launcher is good: 7 ap + reload per one knockdown.
Knockdown single shot shotgun is not good idea because the ap cost is low, meaning that you can keep someone without control for long times. The attack that reduces opponent's control on his char must never take less time or slightly less than it takes to recover from the attack.
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Avv that's what's known as different classes. No game is only dps class and when they all try to be only one is viable like our current situation. Shotguns should be a close range assault class not a kitten fart dispenser.
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Avv that's what's known as different classes.
Which doesn't justify the implementation of bad game design.
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But in other games, you got diminishing returns and high HP pools as well, so CC isnt an issue there as here.
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What's the big deal CC? You can make the weapon viable by not forcing it to a certain role, look how well grenades come into fights, like not at all? And they are like almost only CC based.
Balance the shotguns CC capabilities, damage, fire rate etc. etc and profit. There is place for them to do CC(knock-backs, knockdowns), do decent damage and have better than average fire rate, that all is compensated for its range.
That's it, you don't need anything else to make the weapon viable, you don't need new ammunition, you don't need to make shotgun a pure CC tool, because there is space for something more and you certainly don't need to re-invent an existing weapon to some type of new grenades.
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Are you kidding me? making it have a higher burst count because of its close range IS making it the same as other guns you are just making a new sng, but no other gun does knockback, and critical hits with knockback, its not like grenades as only 1 type of grenade KNOCKDOWNS not knockback. New ammo type are what the shotguns need.
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What's the big deal CC? You can make the weapon viable by not forcing it to a certain role, look how well grenades come into fights, like not at all? And they are like almost only CC based.
Balance the shotguns CC capabilities, damage, fire rate etc. etc and profit. There is place for them to do CC(knock-backs, knockdowns), do decent damage and have better than average fire rate, that all is compensated for its range.
That's it, you don't need anything else to make the weapon viable, you don't need new ammunition, you don't need to make shotgun a pure CC tool, because there is space for something more and you certainly don't need to re-invent an existing weapon to some type of new grenades.
Yes clearly a game full of useless weapons that serve no purpose will be fun and well thought out.
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(deleted) :)
thought about it, actually like the setup hehe
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When you have a ton of stuff losing items is not a problem, also PvP is how long you can survive and how many you kill while you 're alive as you die in the end.