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Title: PVE merc leading
Post by: Rain on January 14, 2013, 08:17:51 pm
Hey there guys,i m looking for a build that can carry the largest/cheapest possible team of hth guys,for mid to low tier real time pve purposes.
Unfortunately i never had a leader this season and i really don t have the time for extensive testing.
Any advice...?Or even better,if you are willing to post your favourite that would be great.

Wiki is outdated and i find very discordant information with search button.
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: -Max Payne- on January 14, 2013, 08:35:31 pm
You need 10 in CH, and very much in speech. Mercenaries are very expansive.
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: racoon on January 14, 2013, 09:28:54 pm
this is my "combat" merc leader...

(http://gyazo.com/34741e8d0800e5a94d1337345f054d87.png)

take mentats and beer while buying 4th merc. can handle 4 unarmed mutants, scores nice crits with laser rifle and can use gatling laser.. 260hp is also nice.
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: Rain on January 14, 2013, 09:38:53 pm
So i can handle the 4th mutie drugless after buying..?That s extremely nice,ty very much!
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: racoon on January 15, 2013, 12:18:04 am
So i can handle the 4th mutie drugless after buying..?That s extremely nice,ty very much!

yes. my build has little too high strength and low action points, but you can just change that and everything will be nice. try remake it in nitue.net step after step to see how it evolves. lvl up with gatling on centaurs - its very fast
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: Rain on January 15, 2013, 12:32:36 am
yes. my build has little too high strength and low action points, but you can just change that and everything will be nice. try remake it in nitue.net step after step to see how it evolves. lvl up with gatling on centaurs - its very fast
   


I m trying to work out something about luck so i can get better mercs hp,something like



S3
P6
E6
C7
I9
A4
L6


Weapon handling,strong back,even more crit,better crit,bonus rate of fire,lg x2 for 190 hp,what do you think,does it get better..?1 aimed sniper rifle shot,better mercs thanks to average luck.
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: Gimper on January 15, 2013, 12:47:21 am
I honestly don't think there is a "good" combat merc leader, but if you had to, I'd say racoon's is the best.
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: racoon on January 15, 2013, 12:49:17 am
every single LUCK point gives around 10hp to your mercs. mutant mercs bought on my actual build has ~350HP. with 6 luck they will have around 400 i believe. They are tough enough with 350. i'd say its not worth to invest 5 special points into luck. also lvling up a sg merc leader will take much longer than ew + gatling

personally, in this build i have posted i would lover st to 5 and make endurance 10.. i dont know why didnt i do that...

yeah, there's no really good merc leader, thats why i've put "combat" in apostrophes.
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: Gimper on January 15, 2013, 12:55:03 am
every single LUCK point gives around 10hp to your mercs. mutant mercs bought on my actual build has ~350HP. with 6 luck they will have around 400 i believe. They are tough enough with 350. i'd say its not worth to invest 5 special points into luck. also lvling up a sg merc leader will take much longer than ew + gatling

personally, in this build i have posted i would lover st to 5 and make endurance 10.. i dont know why didnt i do that...

yeah, there's no really good merc leader, thats why i've put "combat" in apostrophes.
With the luck thing, does that go for companions too?
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: racoon on January 15, 2013, 12:58:25 am
With the luck thing, does that go for companions too?

player character luck has no affect on companions in any way. their hp comes with them while they respawn, and they HP gain/lvl is based on their endurance which is random. you can find 200hp companion which gets 1 hp/lvl, and minute later 95hp companion who gets 5hp/lvl.

anyway, in combat mercenaries are superior when compared to companions which are roulette.

with 1 luck unarmed mutants gets 3-4 hp/lvl. sometimes 5.
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: Gimper on January 15, 2013, 01:01:24 am
Interesting... Now i have to make a new slaver/merc leader... heheh..
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: Rain on January 15, 2013, 01:48:30 am
Another question,since you seem well informed>Why can t i change my human black guys hth merc their weapon..?Is that a feature..?They don t seem to like anything except their hammer...

And,as last one>do mercs respawn..?
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: Ganado on January 15, 2013, 01:58:34 am
The black merc might not have the necessary animations, that's why. (Though it might be something else, not 100% sure)

Mercs do not respawn.
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: Rain on January 15, 2013, 02:03:02 am
I see,but also if i try to give anything to my mutie,he refuses.He is forced to be bare handed..?no power fist..?
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: Gimper on January 15, 2013, 02:41:39 am
Probobly just a glitch. Go to the bug tracker
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: Rain on January 15, 2013, 04:47:29 am
Probobly just a glitch. Go to the bug tracker


According to feedback in ncr,no mutie can wear power fist..Disappointing but understandable.Seems a feature.
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: Wind_Drift on January 15, 2013, 05:28:02 am
They can wear spiked knuckles I believe.  They won't accept items unless you give them 1 cap along with the item... or just want to use a thief to place it in their inventory.

Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: Rain on January 15, 2013, 05:36:49 am
They can wear spiked knuckles I believe.  They won't accept items unless you give them 1 cap along with the item... or just want to use a thief to place it in their inventory.

The thief option seems more likely,shall give it a try.
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: racoon on January 15, 2013, 01:29:47 pm
The thief option seems more likely,shall give it a try.

you can even force them to use laser rifles...
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: Enzotainment on January 15, 2013, 02:21:02 pm
you can even force them to use laser rifles...

True, but they miss so much and walk up so close, it's more effective to keep them with fists. Haven't tried it with high lvl mutant mercs though...
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: racoon on January 15, 2013, 06:52:47 pm
True, but they miss so much and walk up so close, it's more effective to keep them with fists. Haven't tried it with high lvl mutant mercs though...

i believe they gets nothing but HP
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: Roachor on January 15, 2013, 08:21:50 pm
http://www.nitue.net/#fcp/direct!id=7694

290 sneak, 10 luck for +100 hp, 176 fa with 45 sec cd
No combat skills, can carry 4 melee mercs and a scout dog or 3 70pp mercs and a scout dog.
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: racoon on January 15, 2013, 11:59:08 pm
http://www.nitue.net/#fcp/direct!id=7694

290 sneak, 10 luck for +100 hp, 176 fa with 45 sec cd
No combat skills, can carry 4 melee mercs and a scout dog or 3 70pp mercs and a scout dog.

used to have similiar. but sneak wears off after you fa anything and its useless
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: Gimper on January 16, 2013, 04:27:45 am
http://www.nitue.net/#fcp/direct!id=7694

290 sneak, 10 luck for +100 hp, 176 fa with 45 sec cd
No combat skills, can carry 4 melee mercs and a scout dog or 3 70pp mercs and a scout dog.
He asked for combat leader, not NON-combat leader.
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: Rain on January 16, 2013, 09:59:29 am
Advice for anyone interested in similar builds>the one i posted before sucks.Don t do it.Next one i will try raccoon's.Interesting option the sneaker leader,i never tried a sneaker in pve,if that really work could be interesting,but i really don t know how high sneak skill should be to avoid the average npc.
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: shenbei8 on January 16, 2013, 10:52:59 am
http://www.nitue.net/#fcp/direct!id=7694

290 sneak, 10 luck for +100 hp, 176 fa with 45 sec cd
No combat skills, can carry 4 melee mercs and a scout dog or 3 70pp mercs and a scout dog.


well, bro ,   how hard this build to level up? :-\
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: gauvaran on January 16, 2013, 11:06:53 am
FA-ing merc ?
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: Rain on January 16, 2013, 10:07:20 pm

well, bro ,   how hard this build to level up? :-\
.       

After a lot of think and rework: you can make a leader with 296 hp,decent real time fighter,able to carry 4 melee mutants [and i have to check If can carry 4 lazor guys,with a small tweak and druggies],whohas high percepition,just think about it.Ty raccoon's for your precious starting tips!
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: racoon on January 16, 2013, 11:12:18 pm
.       

After a lot of think and rework: you can make a leader with 296 hp,decent real time fighter,able to carry 4 melee mutants [and i have to check If can carry 4 lazor guys,with a small tweak and druggies],whohas high percepition,just think about it.Ty raccoon's for your precious starting tips!

max hp in game is 290.

laser mercs takes 70pp. same as unarmed mutants so if you can handle 4 mutnats you can handle 4 laser guys.
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: Roachor on January 17, 2013, 02:05:50 am

well, bro ,   how hard this build to level up? :-\
Very, about 3 months of fa. I currently have 305000 xp and 0 kills. Btw this "non combat" is more deadly because you can't make a good fighter with high cha and I can give order without getting wasted.
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: shenbei8 on January 17, 2013, 06:33:14 am
Very, about 3 months of fa. I currently have 305000 xp and 0 kills. Btw this "non combat" is more deadly because you can't make a good fighter with high cha and I can give order without getting wasted.


3months ,oh my god, you are the man seriously.   :o
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: T-888 on January 17, 2013, 10:26:12 am
Some people just have too much time to spend near PC. ;D
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: greenthumb on January 17, 2013, 11:06:09 am
you can level up any alt, need just 100% ew
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: ronillon on January 17, 2013, 03:26:04 pm
you can level up any alt, need just 100% ew
Or you can always use molotovs on mantises and molerats. No skill needed, you just throw it under your feet, then FA yourself.
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: Slaver Snipe on January 17, 2013, 10:54:58 pm
http://www.nitue.net/#fcp/direct!id=7717

4 melee mercs, 6 slaves (female trappers are decent) armed with sharpened spears.  Encounter sizes will be huge. Your job is to cripple any bursters that may kill your slaves.  Also bought melee mercs/combat slaves should have between 200-250 hp. Some perks were taken out of order since I was just doing a quick build.
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: racoon on January 17, 2013, 11:39:49 pm
http://www.nitue.net/#fcp/direct!id=7717

4 melee mercs, 6 slaves (female trappers are decent) armed with sharpened spears.  Encounter sizes will be huge. Your job is to cripple any bursters that may kill your slaves.  Also bought melee mercs/combat slaves should have between 200-250 hp. Some perks were taken out of order since I was just doing a quick build.

melee mercs are pathetically weak. molerats crits them for 20 and hits for 8 regularry. also these 6 slaves... really? they has 100 hp and died in 1 burst or 3 single shots. while unarmed mutant can be 1 hexed by unity minigunner and still has 4/5hp's
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: PolarBear315 on January 17, 2013, 11:54:21 pm
How do you know how much luck youre merc have's....


 ???
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: Rain on January 17, 2013, 11:56:23 pm
How do you know how much luck youre merc have's....


 ???

You can t.  u.u
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: Slaver Snipe on January 17, 2013, 11:59:38 pm
melee mercs are pathetically weak. molerats crits them for 20 and hits for 8 regularry. also these 6 slaves... really? they has 100 hp and died in 1 burst or 3 single shots. while unarmed mutant can be 1 hexed by unity minigunner and still has 4/5hp's

Spoken like a non merc leader, melee mercs=the smart choice of metalmk2 armor, bought with those stats having 200-250 hp (do you often die/take lots of damage with a tank build with metal armor mk2 to molerats?), and they can run he did state RT.  Trapped slaves are low hp yes, but they can be used for either A. cannon fodder or B. you can buy ones that have just as much hp as your mercs.  He also stated, low to mid tier which is not a unity minigunner.
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: racoon on January 18, 2013, 01:00:59 am
i have tested it and mutants without armor are tougher than melee mercs with ma mk2. the only use of these mercs is exploiting their armors. that's the truth
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: Roachor on January 18, 2013, 01:06:12 am
yeah i get way more use out of 3 350 hp muties with spiked than 5 250hp humans with wakizashis. Well the price difference is huge too, 300 caps and 9 metal vs  1700 caps and 5 farmed weapons.
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: Rain on January 18, 2013, 01:45:17 am
A lot of different and interesting point of view.What special stat influences mercs hp..?I-ve noticed no particular differences between my 1 lck leader and the 6 one.Shall i assume luck is not important..?
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: Roachor on January 18, 2013, 04:26:53 am
A lot of different and interesting point of view.What special stat influences mercs hp..?I-ve noticed no particular differences between my 1 lck leader and the 6 one.Shall i assume luck is not important..?

Luck is the only thing that determines merc hp. the difference between 1-10 luck is 100hp. 30 hp scout dog is 130 hp with 10 luck for example.
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: Gimper on January 18, 2013, 05:13:28 am
Luck is the only thing that determines merc hp. the difference between 1-10 luck is 100hp. 30 hp scout dog is 130 hp with 10 luck for example.
Really... O.O remind me to make 10 luck dog owner alt heheh
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: Enzotainment on January 18, 2013, 11:08:39 am
A lot of different and interesting point of view.What special stat influences mercs hp..?I-ve noticed no particular differences between my 1 lck leader and the 6 one.Shall i assume luck is not important..?

Maybe myth, but I recall three stats to determine your merc/dog/mutie hp:
Luck
Charisma
Endurance
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: Roachor on January 18, 2013, 11:16:35 am
Maybe myth, but I recall three stats to determine your merc/dog/mutie hp:
Luck
Charisma
Endurance


I've tested it extensively, the only thing that makes a difference is luck. Charisma and end do nothing. When you buy a merc there is  a roll for hp which usually varies a small percentage plus the luck bonus which seems to be 100 hp with 10 luck regardless of starting hp.
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: shenbei8 on January 18, 2013, 11:38:44 am

I've tested it extensively, the only thing that makes a difference is luck. Charisma and end do nothing. When you buy a merc there is  a roll for hp which usually varies a small percentage plus the luck bonus which seems to be 100 hp with 10 luck regardless of starting hp.


so let's say, my CH is only 4, but LK 10,  i will still get high hp mercs right?
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: racoon on January 18, 2013, 12:55:20 pm

so let's say, my CH is only 4, but LK 10,  i will still get high hp mercs right?

you should.
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: ronillon on January 18, 2013, 02:25:02 pm

I've tested it extensively, the only thing that makes a difference is luck. Charisma and end do nothing. When you buy a merc there is  a roll for hp which usually varies a small percentage plus the luck bonus which seems to be 100 hp with 10 luck regardless of starting hp.
Well i just did a quick test and the results seem to say something else. I was buying HtH mercs in Redding. Those ninjas.
1. Build:
ST 10, PE 8, EN 4, CH 5, IN 5, AG 7, LK 1
Results: 128HP,128HP,132HP

2. Build:
ST 3, PE 6, EN 4, CH 5, IN 5, AG 7, LK 10
Results: 129HP,130HP,133HP
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: greenthumb on January 18, 2013, 02:37:06 pm
then probably luck doesnt affect hp for all mercs, but maybe other stats. (hopefully any of them)
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: Enzotainment on January 18, 2013, 03:12:06 pm
Well, I certainly noticed a difference between buying a mutie with 7 charisma, 10 luck and doping up first for 10 charisma, 10 luck.

Highers hp's every time with more charisma. Not sure about endurance, but I've been told it's a factor.
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: ronillon on January 18, 2013, 04:23:11 pm
then probably luck doesnt affect hp for all mercs, but maybe other stats. (hopefully any of them)
Well unless some dev will provide relevant informations, the only way to find out is test it. And since this is quiet expensive bussiness it would be nice if at least few people cooperated by sharing their results.
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: greenthumb on January 18, 2013, 04:26:39 pm
Well unless some dev will provide relevant informations, the only way to find out is test it. And since this is quiet expensive bussiness it would be nice if at least few people cooperated by sharing their results.

 i wana join your experiments :),  i think this can be easily done with lvl 1 characters.
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: racoon on January 18, 2013, 05:26:45 pm
but i believe lvl matters too
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: ronillon on January 18, 2013, 06:01:05 pm
but i believe lvl matters too
it would be best to provide character sheet screenshot along with the merc HP data.

now thinking about it, is it possible, that other merc stats are affected by some SPECIAL too? for example skills?
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: Roachor on January 18, 2013, 07:11:45 pm
it would be best to provide character sheet screenshot along with the merc HP data.

now thinking about it, is it possible, that other merc stats are affected by some SPECIAL too? for example skills?

Ok so luck and cha are what decides it.
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: ronillon on January 18, 2013, 08:55:22 pm
Here's the proof you wanted, only luck changes anything. Skills and level don't affect anything, neither does end or cha. Luck is the only stat that is important.
So why is there such a difference on those two LK10 characters? One has 256HP the other 133HP.
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: Roachor on January 18, 2013, 08:58:19 pm
So why is there such a difference on those two LK10 characters? One has 256HP the other 133HP.

No shit, well apparently it's cha and luck then. All my cha builds have 10 cha because putting points into speech is incredibly inefficient.
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: racoon on January 18, 2013, 09:37:49 pm
nope. i have tested it with 10 lk 10 cha leader and they were still weak. as i said i believe player lvl matters too but i am not 100% sure
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: Roachor on January 18, 2013, 09:53:08 pm
nope. i have tested it with 10 lk 10 cha leader and they were still weak. as i said i believe player lvl matters too but i am not 100% sure

I had high hp mercs at lvl 1
Title: Re: PVE merc leading
Post by: Gimper on January 19, 2013, 03:38:14 pm
There is no real way to tell unless a dev tells us something... I am quite interested myself now.