fodev.net
Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: DocAN. on January 13, 2013, 04:03:08 pm
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As the topic says it is One alt Crusade.
Why?
For many reason for example:
- "the distress abuse - see here (http://fodev.net/forum/index.php/topic,27353.0.html)",
"wave of alts - we killed you, no we killed You! (http://fodev.net/forum/index.php/topic,27157.0.html)",
"no-role-play - check this out (http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?action=search2)",
"empty towns -same search option (http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?action=search2)",
"mining and gathering - fix gathering (http://fodev.net/forum/index.php/topic,27574.0.html)",
and much more.
How? For start you can write in native code library, which will generate uniq token for each client beased on his hardware, forbid to launch clients in sandbox and on vmware, and check this tokens on client login.
And by game features, which will be worked after the current lvl cap:
- +1 CW every lvl,
- +1 HP every lvl,
- +1 Poison resistnace every lvl,
- +1 Radiation resistance every lvl,
- +1 Party point every lvl.
What need to be changed in game:
- remove lvl cap for skill points,
- block HP gain from Endurance,
- block/change perks gain.
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ6YVRd_DHiK9X9uCfYlRB0sPh-SA6StCYBJCoqrb93ew8LVQWcrej-9B2kaA)
Troll post arent welcome in this topic.
To meke thing clear for all, all above should be done along with old CD timer.
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Would be great.
However... People would still make alts for the following reasons:
Non combat skills: It's easier to make a lvl 8 alt than keep levelling a level 30 guy until he gets enough stealing skill.
Cheating: People love to cheat, would require a great fool-proof system.
Other than that, we would need books to actually boost our skills and well-designed quests to improve our SPECIALS, I don't mind perfect alts with 10 Specials and 300% on each skills as long as you can't get it all by simply grinding centaurs for a week, killing stuff would be routine.
Also HP would be a problem, knowing certain devs I'm sure they would limit our HP to something a lot lower than high-tier NPCs, meaning that your character would be useless against even a lone enclave guy no matter how high level he is.
600 HP would be ideal for those uber-levelled guys with over 9000 centaurs killed.
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Interesting. I am in favor of removing level cap. Have been for a while now. That one change alone would eliminate many alts i think. But also, go back to no crafting cooldowns. When they added crafting cooldowns this year, i added new characters.
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I don't get this crusade against alts. Having only one character sucks. You cant enjoy the game properly from more points of view.
Disable FastRelog, add improved weakened state cooldown upon login, do something about multilogs.
It should not be One Alt Crusade, but rather One Connected Character Crusade.
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Maybe instead of making the limit at one we should put it at 3,this will give enough space for different kinds of alt and will give some space for trolling.
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I agree remove alting and 90% of the problems will be solved.
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How? For start you can write in native code library, which will generate uniq token for each client beased on his hardware, forbid to launch clients in sandbox and on vmware, and check this tokens on client login.
Damn those lazy devs. They can't solve problems which have such obvious and easy solution.
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This game without alts couldn't function. Not enough players for a viable economy, you could wait weeks trying to find someone to trade with that has what you need. Not to mention shitty required alts like lpers or repair or thief, who would dedicate their time to playing these? Fonline has the worst cooperation of any mmo I've ever seen. If WoW had full loot and teamkilling it wouldn't have sold more than 10 copies.
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How?
What need to be changed in game:
- remove lvl cap for skill points,
- block HP gain,
- block/change perks gain.
You dont need to have 300% skill alt, there will be other players with maxed 1-2 skills (repair/steal) etc - role play (in team, people can chose who will take which skill)
If someone want to troll - he have to take the consequence of his actions - i killed You, yes but now You are blacklisted, no more hiding behind new nickname.
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Damn those lazy devs. They can't solve problems which have such obvious and easy solution.
Ask Atom. If he can't do it I'd be surprised. It is possible, just requires the know-how and he might just be the guy. The idea, solution is there, find resources for it, that's time and the guy.
How?
One alt is not going to happen, though solving other problems like dual log, fast re-log is possible.
If such a system takes place, it'd be possible to implement that someone can play with only one character, but that also would mean he could play with the character only on the PC where the character was made.
So, that is a horrible design flaw.
Besides that in different topic, it was discussed by me and other players that having multiple alts is not entirely that bad, meaning having one will not significantly improve gameplay. There is certain beauty for the ability to play the game in different ways, to take role of wide variety of play-styles.
Hmm.
Though having unreasonably high CD for re-log would force the player to stick to a certain character on a daily basis and if someone would like to switch to something else just to play differently and experience something new, then it would be possible and nobody could use alts as the way they do now.
Not sure if what and any flaws such system contains. Needs more thought.
That could be done just by ordinary client CD, but that would be meaningless without the unique token system, because players could bypass it way to easy (the CD should be applied directly to the token which would be the same for all of the clients characters you'd produce be online on your PC, checked on logging in I presume. The token applied to a character and if the character is in game, it could be checked upon and you couldn't dual log even if you somehow managed to open two clients)
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Even if we uncap/remove all SPECIAL, skills, traits and perks thus removing the need for skillbased alts suck as lp, repairguy, scienceguy, crafters etc etc we would still have a million alts to scout stores and towns, a miner in each mine and ofcourse a *few* armed alts on wm to figth.
Devs forcefully limiting alts available per player trough player accounts or whatever would severly harm the economy and diversity of the chars. Only ones who would benefit would be those who bypasses the rules.
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For this who didnt have enough imagination - the things in first post should be done with the old CD relog timer, i though it is obvious.
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Uh no, that is remotely obvious because you based your suggestion on a completely different solution with no clearly foreseeable connections.
In other words.
That could be done just by ordinary client CD
For this who didnt have enough imagination - the things in first post should be done with the old CD relog timer, i though it is obvious.
You've gotta be kidding me. ;D
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Seems like someone need to get everything clear like in kindergarten.
Uh no, that is remotely obvious because you based your suggestion on a completely different solution with no clearly foreseeable connections.
In other words.
You've gotta be kidding me. ;D
At least this post is readable, not like that wall above.
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I'm like the only one who by your standards had enough imagination and if you think what I wrote how I came to that conclusion is not readable? Then you should seriously reconsider how you write a good suggestion, so someone doesn't have to write walls of texts to make connections between apples and oranges, even better to simply understand how the suggestion works.
Is that trivial enough for you to digest?
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I have no idea what this suggestion is about.
The tittle says one thing but the text beneath it says something completely different.
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I have no idea what this suggestion is about.
The tittle says one thing but the text beneath it says something completely different.
If You have problem with reading with understanding, then dont waste time here and get some books.
Is that trivial enough for you to digest?
I would ask for more explanation.
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(http://i46.tinypic.com/1zdxbac.jpg)
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I have no idea what this suggestion is about.
The tittle says one thing but the text beneath it says something completely different.
Suggestion is about effective solutions to minimize the use of alts by any reasonable means, including mechanics which are necessary to introduce to make it successful at practice.
I would ask for more explanation.
I believe that would be an unreadable wall of text for you.
no more hiding behind new nickname.
By the way, if you really knew that it had to be done in conjunction with ordinary re-log timer before I wrote it on this topic, you'd understand that players would still be able to make new characters, but since you didn't, don't try to fool yourself thinking it was supposed to be obvious or me.
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I believe that would be an unreadable wall of text for you.
You can try, ill focus.
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Removal of level cap, and limiting HP and perk gains already has existing support in the SDK. Those would be easy to implement, if Dev's decided to do so. I do of course support reinstating the relog timer.
When it comes to reducing alting, I am of the opinion that the only two ways you can go about it is forcing it, or simply encouraging it.
I think if it was encouraged through the removal of a level cap, the only people who would limit themselves to one alt are those players who already want to play that way (and probably already do).
The rest of us like having the option to log a sniper, a sneaker, a BG, or an EW build depending on the day. Even with all the encouragement in the world, we will still have alts. If it was forced, it would simply compel us to find a way around it. Humans are like water, we'll find the smallest crack and slip through.
I'm not going to touch the unique token idea, as I don't have the technical know how to do anything but talk out of my ass about it. I wouldn't be shocked at all if Atom or Skycast knows, I just know I don't have a clue.
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When it comes to reducing alting, I am of the opinion that the only two ways you can go about it is forcing it, or simply encouraging it.
I see that as one option.
If it was forced, it would simply compel us to find a way around it.
I'm not going to touch the unique token idea, as I don't have the technical know how to do anything but talk out of my ass about it (hint).
I don't have enough technical know how too, but I gathered enough information from people who know. I was very interested about this and still am.
Not this time, the only way how an average player would bypass the suggested system, would be either another PC or specific knowledge and the percent who'd actually be able to do something about it, very, very low (almost words from someone else mouth), not even close to as simple an average Joe just lunching a sandbox client and succeeding.
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You may be right on the money, I was just saying I personally don't have a clue.
But forcing it and encouraging it is not the same thing, no matter how you look at it.
Forcing means the player doesn't have a choice (such as the unique token idea).
Encouraging means the player still has the option to have as many alts as they want, but game features make it easier to play with one if you choose to do so.
Completely different, not the same thing at all.
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I am just making conversation on the topic.
I don't see any other way than to force, if it can be bypassed with conventional means, with simple solutions available to the player like launching another client combined with a proxy, then there will always be some sort of percent who will do just that. Despite the best encouragement and countermeasures with smart in game features, there will always be a way how to take advantage of it.
Encouragement has to be there, so the player doesn't feel the need to do that and so the game would be bearable. Currently players use alts mostly because of poorly designed features that promotes them, not everyone is inclined to just cheat. If you'd force them it'd have a huge impact on the game play and it can be negative if the game is not appropriately designed to support such type of play style. The game currently counts on the player that he will have multiple alts, it is designed that way.
For example, let's say this one alt on daily basis come in and the player doesn't have repair tagged, he has completely no other way how to maintain his equipment than to find another player. I think that is too extreme and time consumptive for someone who just wants to jump in and play, you know not making the game some second life. He should be able to do it by himself at some level of efficiency, give the possibility and options. There were, for example, suggestions like traders providing repair, science functions, also for the player ability to maintain his weaponry just with his weapon skill and also books that increase skills to a certain level.
Forcing and encouraging, it is closely connected.
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I am just making conversation on the topic.
I don't see any other way than to force, if it can be bypassed with conventional means, with simple solutions available to the player like launching another client combined with a proxy, then there will always be some sort of percent who will do just that. Despite the best encouragement and countermeasures with smart in game features, there will always be a way how to take advantage of it.
Encouragement has to be there, so the player doesn't feel the need to do that and so the game would be bearable. Currently players use alts mostly because of poorly designed features that promotes them, not everyone is inclined to just cheat. If you'd force them it'd have a huge impact on the game play and it can be negative if the game is not appropriately designed to support such type of play style. The game currently counts on the player that he will have multiple alts, it is designed that way.
For example, let's say this one alt on daily basis come in and the player doesn't have repair tagged, he has completely no other way how to maintain his equipment than to find another player. I think that is too extreme and time consumptive for someone who just wants to jump in and play, you know not making the game some second life. He should be able to do it by himself at some level of efficiency, give the possibility and options. There were, for example, suggestions like traders providing repair, science functions, also for the player ability to maintain his weaponry just with his weapon skill and also books that increase skills to a certain level.
Forcing and encouraging, it is closely connected.
Agreed on all points.
As I've said before, I'd happily play a server that limits us to one character and evaluate the idea then.
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If someone want to troll - he have to take the consequence of his actions - i killed You, yes but now You are blacklisted, no more hiding behind new nickname.
YES!
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Damn those lazy devs. They can't solve problems which have such obvious and easy solution.
Actually yes, i can understand that devs busy or antialt system not in plans now, but not that it is very hard to implement. If even i know how to write it and Atom or Scyp much more powerfull in coding.
2238 Devs can also contact Groza(Requiem) and develop this solution together because Groza already start antialt crusade, solution not perfect for now but still.
I do of course support reinstating the relog timer.
You need to forget about relog timer which was before because it is bugged in engine.
Aslo when i said about uniq hardware tokens i mean there preventing dual loging not 1pc=1char forever.
You must understand that trying to create absolut antialt defence it is like trying to hide guns from killers when you need just throw them to prison.
Sandboxes, Vmware and other virtual solutions can be easy detected from client and banned too.
So new altialt defence + ban waves sometime + changing gameplay to one alt side is only way i see.
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Sandboxes, Vmware and other virtual solutions can be easy detected from client and banned too.
Once I see it, I will shit bricks.
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Challenge thrown do Skycast will accept it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bW7Op86ox9g
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You dont need to have 300% skill alt, there will be other players with maxed 1-2 skills (repair/steal) etc - role play (in team, people can chose who will take which skill)
If someone want to troll - he have to take the consequence of his actions - i killed You, yes but now You are blacklisted, no more hiding behind new nickname.
No one wants to rely on others, we want to do everything by ourselves as it should be.
I stick with my opinion, massive level cap alts with 300% skill and 10 SPECIALS after a lot of effort and grinding.
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Challenge thrown do Skycast will accept it?
For sure.
But will be no drama here - i send code to Mayck by PM ;D
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I agree remove alting and 90% of the problems will be solved.
Nuff said.When will it be possible to vote about it..?I know fonline is not democracy,but if we are many,first or later developer will think about thath.
No one wants to rely on others, we want to do everything by ourselves as it should be.
I stick with my opinion, massive level cap alts with 300% skill and 10 SPECIALS after a lot of effort and grinding.
Everyone with 600 hp and all 10 stat and 300 skill in everything at the end of the server means uber mercs problem with massive non sense pve fights,and that sounds bad.Smaller boost like 350 hp would be cool,but special NEEDS to be capped imho,while on the contrary capping skills and professions is kinda stupid.
Obviously it s not fair that 1 int character can get top 300 skill in everything while another one with 10 int guy wasted his special point.
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Yes but how long would it take for 1 int char to get 300 in everything?
More than a year if you don't grind 24/7.
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As i said in 1st post, nothing should be changed except few things:
What need to be changed in game:
- remove lvl cap for skill points,
- block HP gain,
- block/change perks gain.
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Yes but how long would it take for 1 int char to get 300 in everything?
More than a year if you don't grind 24/7.
Reason enough for crazy head pvp ers to save 9 spec point,but anyway,dear friend>
As i said in 1st post, nothing should be changed except few things:
I would tatoo this on my main character forehead.
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June 2010 (http://fodev.net/forum/index.php/topic,5678.0.html). Hell yeah, those were the days ...
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June 2010 (http://fodev.net/forum/index.php/topic,5678.0.html). Hell yeah, those were the days ...
Those were the days when still most people had considered mass alting as a problem in this game.
Seeing no chance for the issue to ever be solved here, these people have just left within the last 3 years... leaving the server to those who don't bother.
There is not much more to expect here for your kind Wichura, so just move along ::).
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It could be small step for developers but giant leap for gamers.
(http://allthingsd.com/files/2012/08/skypic04-18_sk12-371x285.jpeg)
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- Relax level cap, set it at 30. Including HP gain + two more perks.
- Limit number of alts to three.
- Have a relog timer.
- Relax skill requirements for sneak, lockpick, and steal to reduce need for alting.
- Bring back the Gifted perk or make stat modules available through hard quests / special encounters. Make it so each character can only use a limited number of these, 3-4 max. Or make it so if you use stat modules / Gifted, that you can't use drugs.
Edit: You could also scale the HP a little of the usual "buffed" PvE critters when players reach the level 24-30 area.
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- Limit number of alts to three.
How?
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Its One Alt Crusade not limit the number of alts topic.
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Its One Alt Crusade not limit the number of alts topic.
Since 2009 – it has already been 4 years that 2238 developers have failed to understand that mass alting ruins this game and they will not understand it now. You are just losing your time dude. Move along.
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Since 2009 – it has already been 4 years that 2238 developers have failed to understand that mass alting ruins this game and they will not understand it now. You are just losing your time dude. Move along.
Some developers have changed, there is fresh blood in dev team i count on them.
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Some developers have changed, there is fresh blood in dev team i count on them.
Even though some developers have changed, I seriously doubt that they will ever have guts to change the fundamental concept of the game. 2238 has been developed as a ‘faction mod’ since the very beginning and it means that you are never supposed to become too universal but to ‘cooperate’ (with your own alts).
Clearly - the changes you suggest are too much of a revolution in the very basics of this game. These will just never happen, although (and I fully agree with it) essential in order for 2238 to become anything more than a mediocre shooter.
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Even though some developers have changed, I seriously doubt that they will ever have guts to change the fundamental concept of the game. 2238 has been developed as a ‘faction mod’ since the very beginning and it means that you are never supposed to become too universal but to ‘cooperate’ (with your own alts).
We are already universal because of alts.
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We are already universal because of alts.
Read with understanding next time.
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We are already universal because of alts.
I'd argue that alting is caused more by nerfing / making some build requirements too strict. Allowing hybridization and relaxing the "harshness" goes hand in hand with alt reduction--you can't have one without the other.
I suggest a three alt max, because what will happen with a limit of one is that players will only use the fun versatile builds and the uberspecialists will go extinct. People will use PvE farming, barter, and basic crafting. They'll drop out entirely from blueprint hunting, thieving, and sneak.
A good 50% of the game would shut down right there, and there's only three solutions to choose from:
1. Alts
2. Give characters more levels and therefore more skill points
3. Keep the current level limit but make the skills of lockpick, steal, and sneak require less points to be effective.
If the latter two options aren't desired, then the only solution is to maintain the alting system--albeit at a reduced level.
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How would you make the 3,4...n alt restriction?
This topic is about gameplay changes and Your ideas wont change anything.
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Well.. server down once more, so why not contribute to this discussion now..
I've been thinking about the army-of-alts issue very often, i for once hate alting. At current state of the games structure it IS a nessecity for single player or any player that just wants to have all benefits from the different aspects of the game.
Maybe there's another way to approach this.
How about a revised merc/companion system?
In FO1+2 there were all kinds of different companions, some who could fight well, others who had other helpful skills (e.g. Lenny who FA'd when your FA was lower than his, Vic who repaired..).
So what if there were different built mercs than only the fighters available?
It could be something like this:
1. Mercenary class Contractors, they can't respawn like mercs and have more or less average skills for low/medium tier actions/crafts. They cost money and need regular payment for loyalty or else they leave on their own. They level a bit over time but not to comparable greatness of companion class.
Some examples:
Field Medic
-hireable from any doc in towns
-FA at 150
-DOC at 100
-heals you and your fighters in battle
Laborer/"Mule"
-hireable on "marketplaces"
-high carry weight
-can be used like slaves at mine,
-can be ordered to collect junk from random map for player
-can be ordered to chop wood
-can be ordered to deliver what is in his inventory to a location of players choice (town/tent/base).
Chemist
-hireable at high-tech places like vault city
-crafts drugs on demand if ingredients are put in his inventory
Smithys
-hireable at workshops
-different professions (SG/BG/EW/Armor)
-craft weapons and ammo on demand if parts are put in their inventory
Scoundrels
-hireable at "underground" places like thieves guild in hub
-Lockpick at about 150
-Traps the same
-pick containers and disarm traps (who would have thought THAT..)
2. Companions that are more hybrid-ish. Or Companions that even can't fight at all but have functions like contractors above, only better skill/more craftable stuff. Able to respawn at designated point on death or player death.
3. In addition to hireable "takeaway"-contractors there could be more shops that provide same services locally. (well, maybe not lockpicking,traps..) This would be of use for players with no CH/PP. Therefore the npc disposition should be changed from "under 3 CH almost no one talks to you" to "well ok you got CH 1, npc still talks to you but is really hard on you". A CH 1 player is not able to take any followers, so he must rely on local services for higher prices, which then could be improved by barter skill. Meaning one could play a hardcore loner-asshole char but still get all services at skills he doesn't have himself.
If you like to play a doctor, then you hire some mercs that keep you safe.
If you play a thief, then maybe a laborer is in order to carry all that stolen stuff away to safety since u got not so much carry weight.
If you're out for pvp - let the smithys take care of supplying you with top condition gear.
and so on..
This wouldn't totally prevent alting of course, but could be an encouraging aspect in the game to stick to your char and still get everything else you need somehow. In combination with beforementioned suggestions like relog timer, higher lvl cap, adjusted skill requirements this could be a nice experience.
Now this looks kind of my "christmas list" for fonline and I sadly have absolutely no idea how all this could be realized but maybe devs take it into consideration for a big feature expansion for next wipe :D
Actually this is the tip of the iceberg of my wishes for this beautiful game... Can't put all that here..
Well, and now for your devastating criticism of these thoughts...
-Oh and if something like this was suggested before, please don't flame me for not finding it in a years old forum full of tons of data :P
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Sheesh, you put a lot of thought into that. I like the ideas though.
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So what if there were different built mercs than only the fighters available?
It could be something like this:
1. Mercenary class Contractors, they can't respawn like mercs and have more or less average skills for low/medium tier actions/crafts. They cost money and need regular payment for loyalty or else they leave on their own. They level a bit over time but not to comparable greatness of companion class.
Some examples:
You sir are a brilliant man.
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Yeah, he really has good thought there, doesn't he? I think also hire-able Robots ;D
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And I am thinking about hireable-GM
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And I am thinking about hireable-GM
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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And I am thinking about hireable-GM
Again with your trolling... on second thought, these GM's now could use a break... heheh..
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Well.. server down once more, so why not contribute to this discussion now..
It wont change anything, You still will be forced to create alts to own the mercs.
Why? Because most of alts have 1CH and 11 Party points. Even if you have 3CH You wont be able to hire all of them.
Your idea will bring just another type of alt.
Playing on 1 alt from start of this session (with my suggestion implemented) would give You the chance to develop each none combat skill to the state from Your suggestion or even more - and this is what we should do.
Who would make the relog to lockpicker/crafter/etc if he would be able to make all this task on his main alt?
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much text
From Fonline:2238 to pokemon land.
No thanks.
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It wont change anything, You still will be forced to create alts to own the mercs.
Why? Because most of alts have 1CH and 11 Party points. Even if you have 3CH You wont be able to hire all of them.
Your idea will bring just another type of alt.
Playing on 1 alt from start of this session (with my suggestion implemented) would give You the chance to develop each none combat skill to the state from Your suggestion or even more - and this is what we should do.
Who would make the relog to lockpicker/crafter/etc if he would be able to make all this task on his main alt?
Hmm i find the idea of every player having almost the same power-hybrid-build at the end kind of boring - And that is what you technically suggest. If everyone can do everything, what is there left of the "rp" in mmorpg? (ok at current state, delete the first "m" :'( )With the feature i described, there would still be distinctions between HUMAN players, and an individual challenge for each player to find a solution to his personal needs in game.
The one thing about Fallout that i liked and like most is that it is not casual. If I wanted one single char that can do everything in the end i could play games like GTA or so.. (Not saying GTA is bad)
About the argument that most players choose an "alt" with low CH - Please read point number three of my suggestion again. I thought of that, tell me if anything with that couldn't work, I know it's not perfectly thought through. PP could be adjusted so u can already take one or two "cheap" mercs at CH2. AT CH 1 you'll get minimal service in towns like getting weapons built and heals but no followers, instead u put your points in the non social skills like a combat or thief skill. Higher Level Cap should help solve that problem but it shouldn't get so high as if 10 skill have been tagged.
Maybe the problem is the gamer who just needs to have it all and that kind of player will always alt, unless alting gets rendered useless. I was hoping my suggestion is a step toward that - without making the game a casual "mediocre shooter" like s.o. on this forum said, cant remember who right now.
Greetings
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From Fonline:2238 to pokemon land.
No thanks.
Well, if one plays a complete non combat char, yes it kind of gets a bit "pokemon" sending your mercs to the front, but you wouldn't have to play a non combat char if u like the laggy not really good RT pvp so much. Then u make your powerbuild as usual and have the contractors doing all those nasty jobs, that are so boring for a fighter instead of logging to several alts doing them yourself. It could actually help save valuable time, of which this game atm steals MUCH. Sometimes this game feels like work to me, grind, grind grind and the a little fun...
Or wait, I have an even better idea. Lets scrap crafting, healing, thieving, barter, speech and all those unessecary stupid roleplayer-derp skills and just leave SG, BG, EW, Traps and Sneak. Great Game!
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Firs of all use edit and quote option.
2nd - it was disccused many times that alts are bad, and this topis is about the changes of it.
3rd - if you want some pokemons, make own suggestion about it because this thing You have wrote above are little off topic here.
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At the moment people keep themselves busy leveling 100000000 of alts. Your suggestion is nothing more than option to just buy those. Wouldn’t it make the game even more ‘casual’?
And no – removing/extending level capacity would not make people play the same characters - there is just too many possible builds. It would stick players to the game for longer though, especially the casual ones.
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Hmm i find the idea of every player having almost the same power-hybrid-build at the end kind of boring -
We are already in this situation. It's just those support skills of hybrid chars are subcontracted to alts. Most pvp builds are rather similar.
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At the moment people keep themselves busy leveling 100000000 of alts. Your suggestion is nothing more than option to just buy those. Wouldn’t it make the game even more ‘casual’?
What good is using valuable playtime leveling almost standardized specialized builds? Why not use that playtime for a more immerse and intense experience with one. The Buyable Mercs CAN be an addition for those who can'T stand the fact that their built isn't a superhuman knowitall.
And no – removing/extending level capacity would not make people play the same characters - there is just too many possible builds. It would stick players to the game for longer though, especially the casual ones.
It would. the skills have a cap of 300 and certain requirements to skill in Game are fixed, and everyone will try and reach exactly those requirements known to all through forum and wiki and whatnot.
We are already in this situation. It's just those support skills of hybrid chars are subcontracted to alts. Most pvp builds are rather similar.
Well doesn't that SCREAM for more diverse Skill/Perk System? But that would be another suggestion and by God i dont want to get offtopic.
Firs of all use edit and quote option.
*salutes* SIR YES SIR.
I totally didn't use the quote function I retyped what others said all by myself.
2nd - it was disccused many times that alts are bad, and this topis is about the changes of it.
My post had absolutely *nothing* to do about changing of alt problem, i totally see that. I should have praised your ideas and kept my own to myself.
3rd - if you want some pokemons, make own suggestion about it because this thing You have wrote above are little off topic here.
I don't want "Pokemons". I want interesting gameplay without necessity of alts, just like you only different, so yes maybe i will put it as own suggestion - far away from that insanely boring one you put up here.
Thanks, over and out.
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BLDYMSS whats the difference between leveling 20 alts or 1 alt that can do the same support tasks? In both cases you have the same options available.
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BLDYMSS whats the difference between leveling 20 alts or 1 alt that can do the same support tasks? In both cases you have the same options available.
All PVPers will stone me for this and scream "Thats not what fonline is about,it was originally faction mod bla bla..!", but here is my answer:
You're right theres no difference, maybe even no difference in time to level, but its not immersive. The RP-factor will die with this variant.You shouldn't be able to to everything, you should stick to your specific build and find personal ways how to deal with the challenges of the game. This wont be the case if char will gets enough points skill combat skill perfect AND raise all support skills. Support skills become more or less meaningless. So why not instead stick with specialisation built that can only do the best at his tagged skills and simply has to leave other actions to npcs/slaves/mercs or,hey...
maybe other players?
No one wants to rely on others, we want to do everything by ourselves as it should be.
I stick with my opinion, massive level cap alts with 300% skill and 10 SPECIALS after a lot of effort and grinding.
Well, then not..
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You're right theres no difference, maybe even no difference in time to level, but its not immersive. The RP-factor will die with this variant.You shouldn't be able to to everything, you should stick to your specific build and find personal ways how to deal with the challenges of the game. This wont be the case if char will gets enough points skill combat skill perfect AND raise all support skills.
But there is not rp factor or immersion even now for those who don't seek it.
Besides if one char could perform all the support tasks that alts currently do, how does it reduce the roleplay immersion in any way? If you want to roleplay a doctor, then don't repair stuff even if you could or don't level up so high. There's no difference from being able to repair stuff with the same char than leveling a repair alt.
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Interesting. I am in favor of removing level cap. Have been for a while now. That one change alone would eliminate many alts i think. But also, go back to no crafting cooldowns. When they added crafting cooldowns this year, i added new characters.
I'm in favor of being able to get to higher levels as well, im not saying it will eliminate every alt, but at least it will remove the ones that are made just to carry out one specified task (there will be those left of coure which were created to try out different builds)
However the main problem at the moment is that there are some things that you cannot do without having a specified alt. Like BP hunting. This instantly creates 3 alts: PvP (to be able to do faction stuff), Lockpicker (to farm BPs), and Crafter (to craft from the BPs)
Speaking for myself, I enjoy having only 1 Character, that is able to fend for himself, and able to deal with mostly any situation.
All in all, I think it would be a good idea to make alternative methods of dealing with existing problems. (Sticking to the BP hunting, I have read that they were actually planning to add blueprints in caves. That would be great to have, maybe protected by NPCs so the average Fighter char could get his hands on it without having a minimum of 200% lockpick skill)
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......It would stick players to the game for longer though, especially the casual ones.
Well yeah, that's probably a good thing.
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But there is not rp factor or immersion even now for those who don't seek it.
Besides if one char could perform all the support tasks that alts currently do, how does it reduce the roleplay immersion in any way? If you want to roleplay a doctor, then don't repair stuff even if you could or don't level up so high. There's no difference from being able to repair stuff with the same char than leveling a repair alt.
OK, I admit now it goes offtopic so this is the last answer i give and then I leave it:
Maybe Hardcore RPers will have the dicipline to leave out skills that don't fit their role. But most players, even if they have the intention to stick to certain actions, will come to the point that they need more, than their role offers and will lose it over time. Now that leads to alting, in case of DocAns suggestion with one "alt" (why call it "alt at this point anyway?) it leads to putting points in the other skills sooner or later, because the game more or less forces on knowing everything and specializing in everything.This is due to game mechanics like the one drakowolf states here
However the main problem at the moment is that there are some things that you cannot do without having a specified alt. Like BP hunting. This instantly creates 3 alts: PvP (to be able to do faction stuff), Lockpicker (to farm BPs), and Crafter (to craft from the BPs)
I'm just saying it may be practical and convenient to know-it-all but where is the challenge in that? Yes the way is different from player to player, but in the end it all would add up to be the same, everyone can act completely autarkically leading to almost no cooperation between players like it is now with alts and thats something that should change in this game.
As for my suggestion: This was meant as a complementary feature in case there's just not enough other players to coop with in game and still wants to enjoy it without levelin tons of alts, or one just really wants to be alone. Being a Loner in the one or other way would get easier with hireable contractors and the players role (and so the immersive feeling due to challenge of being "stuck" with your specialisation/hybrid) would not be compromised in any way, because it wouldn't be possible thanks to level cap. I'll try and make it own thread but surely I'll have to revise it some.
Sorry for raging before. I shut up now.
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You are wrong, coz when people will play on 1 alt they will think twice b4 they will troll/kill anyone.
Same think with barter between players etc.
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Bump.
I have added some new features at first post (http://fodev.net/forum/index.php/topic,27391.0.html) witch will give some bonuses to this who would stick to the One Alt.
... game features, which will be worked after the current lvl cap:
- +1 CW every lvl,
- +1 HP every lvl,
- +1 Posion resistnace every lvl,
- +1 Radiation resistance every lvl,
- +1 Party point every lvl.
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The game could realistically take this direction but the unfortunate fact is that best way to level would be killing centaurs and floaters all day. So activities in towns need to give some pure xp to encourage high level players to visit there.
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Maybe instead of making the limit at one we should put it at 3,this will give enough space for different kinds of alt and will give some space for trolling.
not bad idea
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The game could realistically take this direction but the unfortunate fact is that best way to level would be killing centaurs and floaters all day. So activities in towns need to give some pure xp to encourage high level players to visit there.
Oh wait, let me get this straight, you want experience for activities which don't exist?
Tell me something I don't know.
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Maybe XP for killing an NPC should drop to 0 and you would have to gain xp by other means (quests, crafting... ) .... ye, prolly there arent any activities to do besides smashing skulls of NPCs.
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Oh wait, let me get this straight, you want experience for activities which don't exist?
Tell me something I don't know.
Guess it boils down to adding these activities. Making big barters in unsafe towns might be a start.
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This game needs dungeons, multiple repeatable quests for each faction to go wipe out raider bases or ambush caravans. Grinding random mobs that all function in he same way is boring. Incorporate skills into quests in ways that help but don't block your progress. Like how you need to repair the generator in ship, instead of blocking you if you don't have repair it should just give bonus xp for doing it with repair but still have an option to take a longer route to achieve the same goal.
Fonline forces players to only experience a sliver of the total game on each character when it has no content to begin with, things like minimum 3 cha and int to talk should be removed. Just give stupid and ugly people worse prices from vendors.
The other problem is that humanoid npcs give shit xp and are much more dangerous. low level humanoids with guns should be at least 300 xp, way more for properly geared ones.
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Did You forget about "dangerous" shit-shoveling?
But, seriously XP for killing mobs could drop like it was 2 seasons ago. (It could works after the lvl cap for the endurance HP gain).
This change will allow to gain xp by mob grinding but will not make any advantages vs craft exping or repeatable quest making.
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Guess it boils down to adding these activities. Making big barters in unsafe towns might be a start.
Exactly, now you can wait till these activities are added, as well all other activities meant for player interaction added in the past two years. My count show none relevant at all.
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The game could realistically take this direction but the unfortunate fact is that best way to level would be killing centaurs and floaters all day. So activities in towns need to give some pure xp to encourage high level players to visit there.
Well, you will never stop people from grinding in these kinds of games. No-lifes just happen in any MMORPG and you can do nothing about it. However, this should not be the reason to limit everyone else because of that.
About the topic...
I generally agree with the author. I think that the right way to handle the issue of people becoming 'jacks of all trades' is not to restrict everyone by setting the level cap which you can hit in hours. I think that the right way is to let people advance their characters as much as they want, but still without them becoming overpowered.
With HP capped on let’s say 200 – no matter how many perks you have or how high your skills are – you will usually die in fight against 2 or 3 opponents that are on level 20 and are not idiots. On the other hand 1000 HP in addition to super stimpacks and fast FA is what can make your character immortal in battle but skills/perks do not have such power. That’s why I think that it is HP gain that should be capped - not an overall possibility to level up.
About diminishing exp gain for killing mobs – along with no level cap it might be ok if balanced properly. It’s because it discourages people from grinding and it’s good. It may be a pain in the ass for powergamers but this game shouldn’t be about it does it.
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Diminishing xp is retarded, it's a terrible game design. Things give too little xp as it is, quests aren't really worth the time invested and grinding is the only reasonable way to level since there is nothing "fun" you can do to lvl at a reasonable pace. This game has almost nothing to do until lvl 24 and then after that absolutely nothing.
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With HP capped on let’s say 200 – no matter how many perks you have or how high your skills are – you will usually die in fight against 2 or 3 opponents that are on level 20 and are not idiots. On the other hand 1000 HP in addition to super stimpacks and fast FA is what can make your character immortal in battle but skills/perks do not have such power. That’s why I think that it is HP gain that should be capped - not an overall possibility to level up.
Its alrdy in suggestion:
What need to be changed in game:
- block HP gain from Endurance,
Also the feature:
And by game features, which will be worked after the current lvl cap:
- +1 HP every lvl,
Will not break the game coz lets say +100 hp = + 100 lvls and its ZILION of XP, even then The One Alt will have max 390 HP
Following to this words:
This game has almost nothing to do until lvl 24 and then after that absolutely nothing.
Pack of features would change that thing a bit:
And by game features, which will be worked after the current lvl cap:
- +1 CW every lvl,
- +1 HP every lvl,
- +1 Posion resistnace every lvl,
- +1 Radiation resistance every lvl,
- +1 Party point every lvl.
One Alt Crusade (http://fodev.net/forum/index.php/topic,27391.0.html)
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Diminishing xp is retarded, it's a terrible game design. Things give too little xp as it is, quests aren't really worth the time invested and grinding is the only reasonable way to level since there is nothing "fun" you can do to lvl at a reasonable pace. This game has almost nothing to do until lvl 24 and then after that absolutely nothing.
Diminishing exp is retarded when you need to level up 15 alts in order to play. One character per player along with no lvl cap would change this game in its very basics, creating an obvious need to slow down a character progress above some extent. This can be achieved by increasing exp requirements needed to gain next level or by diminishing exp for killing mobs - it's optional and the result is the same.
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Idea is great but one thing is missing. Ch requirement for all quests and traders should be decreased to 1.
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Idea is great but one thing is missing. Ch requirement for all quests and traders should be decreased to 1.
Well, if you're trying to get people to use 1 alt, why not encourage diversity too.
Having a character with charisma shouldn't only be about having followers. The charisma requirement for quests is a good thing, it provides the need for charismatic characters as the binding factor. More difficult quests could need bigger teams, higher charisma needed, etc. This will result in, hopefully, more interaction between players.
Sure, leave some medium quests for 1 charisma characters. But the good stuff should only be obtained by teamwork and interaction.
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Once I see it, I will shit bricks.
Any progress with Skycast idea?
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Any progress with Skycast idea?
Not a single brick has been shat.
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The last update has solved FR problem (at least in some way) and its good news but WIPE wrote somthing in changelog topic witch looks like a bad news, am i right that the features and game changes i have suggested can not be implemented without server wipe ?
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Bumpin' - I'm really new to this game, though after x days (weeks actually) of gameplay I think i can say this - It's a good idea, particulary in the area of removing the exp cap (which of course goes along with level-appropriate nerfing the exp gain - IMO if it's right from the beginning or <after> level 24 doesn't really matter. Balancing the values of various stats, frequency of perk gains, etc is up for debate. Being a total noob, I dare say that exping all the way to lvl 24 isn't any challenge at all, and doesn't really take much time. I don't count myself a no-lifer (full time job, studies at the weekends) and still I was able to reach it within silly time (couple of days). The one thing I would like to add (yeah, stone me, multialt pvp freaks), that the amount of exp gained for kills should be nerfed (1/4 to 1/2?) even if the 24lvl cap stays. It's just too easy and too fast. Also, I don't get the logic behind the exp values. Why a stupid molerat is worth 100-something (mutated one ~300), and a raider armed with a mauser (and most raider mobs - whatever their names are ingame) are worth ~100-150xp? Because of the crap loot?
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I m wondering If developers appreciate this kind of solution...players should definitely vote more.Bump.
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Voted for yes because hitting a lvlcap in 2-3 days of casual playing is a joke. I doubt the suggestion will ever get implemented on 2238 though. It's because removing level cap and setting a limit on hp instead has been frequently suggested for years and it seems that devs are just not going to do that.
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2 weeks of Poll and we can see that 60% of voters agree with this suggestion, but more intresting is that JovankaB have own shit shovelers funclub.
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Huh, you think this is some democracy? ;D
If you haven't noticed, nobody of relevance cares about votes nor how long they have been set, and not even on which subject or how well their supported. They are more of a visual appeal, "oh look, some players actually like what I have to say", I'd say good for your confidence relating to the relevance of the topic giving you a sense of feeling which says you suggested something "important", "needed" but nothing more.
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We all know, that for Fonline to become balanced, the whole system needs to be reworked, with ideas similar to what docan has suggested.
It was quite obvious, that FO1-2 mechanics dont work in MMO. System should have been designed from ground up with Fo2's in mind.
This mentality of "It has to be like fallout 1-2" is just setting limitations. e.g. thats not fallout or that doesnt look fallouty enough.
Id even go as far to say, Fonline doesnt feel like fallout anymore. They should scrap the notion of fallout, and develope their own wasteland. no limitations then.
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more intresting is that JovankaB have own shit shovelers funclub.
I would like to meet them :)
Forum polls are meaningless anyway, so let's get to the point. First, this:
For start you can write in native code library, which will generate uniq token for each client beased on his hardware, forbid to launch clients in sandbox and on vmware, and check this tokens on client login.
You can forget it, it's basically impossible. As far as I remember, the only real solution Skycast
provided was some silly Sandboxie check, that... you could go around by changing one option
in Sandboxie ::) In general, all we could do, cheaters would go around eventually. It would be
a never ending arms race (or cat-and-mouse game) engaging the smartest people, that would
only stop noobs in the end - and a very time consuming race. Also there would be methods that
simply could never be blocked.
About the rest, I agree that in general you should be able to do most things with one character,
but IMO in different ways. So for example you could bash door with a crowbar if you are strong,
or lockpick it if you are lockpicker, or maybe convince a local thief NPC to join you if you have
high speech or buy some rare master key if you are trader, that turns into dust after a few uses etc.
But your proposal wouldn't really work that way. How it would work? Your character could do
everything the same way, but ONLY IF you spent months on grinding experience. I'm not
saying it's a bad idea in general, but I'm not convinced that it's the best solution to the problem
(even if the simplest one, which is advantage). All this - IMHO.
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About this suggestion:
Wouldn't there be someone who has no life grind so much that all of their skills were maxed out 300%.
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There would of course be.But that would not screw pvp,since there is hp cap,and when it comes to town control i don t think that having an ape that is also a mechanic or an outdoorsman would make such a difference when bullets start to rain all over.
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About this suggestion:
Wouldn't there be someone who has no life grind so much that all of their skills were maxed out 300%.
Those nolifes already grind their alts so that there is 300% skill alt to serve all their needs.
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But your proposal wouldn't really work that way. How it would work? Your character could do
everything the same way, but ONLY IF you spent months on grinding experience.
That's the problem, one shouldn't be able to do everything, that's the whole point of limiting alts.
You don't have to erase the level cap completely, just allow further development of character past certain point with its advantages by doing so, but still have a limit on it, reasonable one. So that turbo grinders don't spoil the game play after few weeks, or months by being jack of all trades.
About the rest, I agree that in general you should be able to do most things with one character,
but IMO in different ways. So for example you could bash door with a crowbar if you are strong,
or lockpick it if you are lockpicker, or maybe convince a local thief NPC to join you if you have
high speech or buy some rare master key if you are trader, that turns into dust after a few uses etc.
More options are always good, but once they are too many it decreases the necessity to interact with other players. I will have my own character with lock-pick skill, but how it will make it unique or worth it if everyone else can do the same thing and nobody would require my skills?
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More options are always good, but once they are too many it decreases the necessity to interact with other players. I will have my own character with lock-pick skill, but how it will make it unique or worth it if everyone else can do the same thing and nobody would require my skills?
Statistics shows that its imposible to have 300% in all skills with my suggestion and thats how Your lock-picker and any other One Alt could be usefull for other players not like it is now in ALTs age.
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After long consideration…. Devs (and some players) says that DocAN ideas are bad. They are probably right. It is easy to imagine: pvp apes with 300% doc, fa, sneak, steal will be more annoying than ac & hth trolls. On the other hand – many players want to develop their characters after 24 lvl. Below I wrote my proposal:
- players with 25lvl(and higher) are able to spend sp on non-combat skills (lockpick, traps, science, repair, barter, gambling and outdoorsman)
- players with 25lvl(and higher) are able to spend sp on combat skills but only to the limit of points they spent on non-combat skills before 25 lvl
- max hp is capped at 24 lvl
- players with 25lvl(and higher) are not able gain current perks (level perks from http://fo2238.fodev.net/wiki/Perks)
- new perks are introduced (min lvl 27):
- Better radiation resistance (5 levels) : each level of perk adds 1% to radiation resistance
- Better poison resistance (5 levels) : each level of perk adds 1% to poison resistance
- Better carry weight (5 levels): each level of perk adds 2 to carry weight
I think my proposal won’t ruin current system, and can be implemented without wipe.
sg
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Does any of You made some caluclations? +1 SP above 200% cost 6 SP and who care about 300 FA/Doc when there is SS spam option. Features suggested in 1st post are the simplest one that could be implemented.
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About the rest, I agree that in general you should be able to do most things with one character,
but IMO in different ways. So for example you could bash door with a crowbar if you are strong,
or lockpick it if you are lockpicker, or maybe convince a local thief NPC to join you if you have
high speech or buy some rare master key if you are trader, that turns into dust after a few uses etc.
But your proposal wouldn't really work that way. How it would work? Your character could do
everything the same way, but ONLY IF you spent months on grinding experience. I'm not
saying it's a bad idea in general, but I'm not convinced that it's the best solution to the problem
(even if the simplest one, which is advantage). All this - IMHO.
Yes, being able to do the same things in many ways could be very relevant to this game - I must admit it.
However, I think this is not only about being able to become more universal with one character. I think this is also about granting player an option to constantly develope one 'alt' thus making gamers identify with their characters. People have a natural will to progress - if you block it, f.e. setting very low lvlcap, they will either get bored after hitting it and quit or they will just start creating a different alt.
As for grinding - yes people would grind - about 3% of them that are just no-lifes. Just like in any other MMORPG. Why even care about them? - Or more like why everyone else should suffer because of these 3%? With the suggestion already stated of setting a maximum capacity on hp gain, not on a character level - noone of these no-lifes would ever become too powerfull anyway.
I know that this will probably never happen on 2238 which is a 'faction mod' (you are supposed to cooperate - mostly with your own alts). However - even though the suggestion that is enclosed in this topic has not been raised for the first time, and any polls show clearly that most of people support it - I don't recall any devs response in this matter so I appreciate your contribution very much JovankaB.
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Make it possible to reassign SPECIAL and skill points. Or make it possible to gain SPECIAL through natural means. (http://fodev.net/forum/index.php/topic,28449.0.html)
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Gain SPECIAL could work like You said but it would have to take a lot of time to get +1 point.
Lets say moving boxes which is a quest could rise ST after 100+ quests - this way will bring more players to Towns.
Similar way players could get + 1 CH by trading stuff to merchants - there is alrdy some table which shows best trader, it could be used to apply +1 CH to players which has traded more then X value of stuff, where X would be defined by developers.