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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Brujah on December 15, 2012, 04:01:40 am
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After farming pretty much everything farmable, I realized that the major NPC factions almost never have an opponent who's up for him:
NCR army vs. powders and marauders, NCR always wins.
Unity vs rogues, only a very small patrol can be beaten by rogues.
Vault City patrol vs slavers... almost same situation as NCR army vs marauders.
Rangers vs marauders (even though farming rangers is next to pointless).
BoS vs. radscorions or centaurs... The friendly fire from each other is worse than any damage their enemies can make.
For once, I would like to crash into an actual encounter where both sides have about the same strength as each other, hell... I would travel the WM with my sneak just to watch the fights.
Sure, it's extremely easy to farm when you can just focus entirely on the strong faction and leave the "bait faction' for later, I'm not saying we shouldn't get NPCs 1hexing rats anymore, I mean that WM is too unbalanced overall when it comes to NPC placement.
Considering Fallout canon (this game isn't canon! blargh! ugga! gooo! yeah... yeah...) I would like to see these factions at each other's necks for once:
Unity patrol vs. Vault City patrol:
VC has the armor and decent equipment while Unity has big guns and splash damage, pretty balanced if you ask me, plus VC would try to make sure muties are as far as possible from their city while Unity would hold a grudge against them.
NCR army vs. Khans:
I never understood why the Khans are above BH, they should be near Shady Shands messing with caravans and bystanders, their presence would make newbies think twice about getting bad rep with NCR, I know khans aren't really strong, but at least it's an improvement, and considering NCR wiped all their enemies long ago it would be no surprise that the worst they have to handle are a bunch of organized thugs.
BoS vs. Mutant Remnants:
Wake those muties up, the first time I met them and noticed that they weren't attacking me I just went "Lol... Really?", they are a former army, they hate and kill humans on sight and most importantly, they live considerably near the Lost Hills bunker, an even group of muties could at least scratch the paladins' armor and a big group against a small patrol could beat them with some losses, it's almost laughable how BoS damages themselves more with misbursts from shooting radscorpions than actual enemies.
Enclave vs. Tough Deathclaws:
Not really anything else, no human faction would go near Navarro, though it doesn't mean they should only have foes who can be killed on 1 burst, I thought about Endless Walkers but that would be way too out of place.
Rangers vs. Professional Slavers:
"Strong" slavers aren't really match to rangers, so I had to come up with that cheesy name (it was that or steroid slavers :P) which are basically buffed thugs with assault rifles, pancors and etc... Rangers being helped by traders and NCR army would easily defeat the slavers but a slavers vs rangers encounter would surely be interesting to watch... And no... They won't show up as "Professional Slavers" on the encounter... That's just a nickname.
Wild Brahmin vs. Mad Brahmin:
Do want.
I'm not saying every encounter should be an intense PVE warzone, I just think that encounters are too predictable the way they are, it would be nice to pay attention to both sides of the table for once instead of just caring about one side at a time, especially because the wasteland is full of opportunitists just waiting for that "You encounter High Tech Faction vs. Epic Meat Shields" encounters, and that is completely normal and fine.
And don't use the old "too much loot in one encounter" excuse, I would take the same amount of loot sooner than later in a much easier way, just waiting for those factions to be away from each other while exterminating a massive horde of mantis or raider meatshields.
This would also barely affect players who want their farming to go smoothly, most of them farm on the surroundings of cities anyway, I'm suggesting most of these balanced encounters to happen on the "border" of cities and interest spots, it wouldn't make much sense to see mutants fight against patrols on the outskirts of VC and vice-versa.
TL;DR: Make PVE a bit more interesting, both for NPCs and Players.
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In my opinion, there is not one arguable point here, all of them seem valid. I agree Brujah. Great idea man.
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they had muties versus bos i think earlier in iterations, but was removed because of fear of "salvagers", players that have no intention of fighting, just to loot scraps of high tier weapons and armor. This goes against *cough* Jovankas *cough* developers core belief that high tier gear shouldn't be attainable except with arduous pointless chore like grind work.... hours and hours of grind mine craft work...... hours and hours of........ hours and hours...... hours and hours..... oh and a blueprint! :)
......and an Advanced Workbench!
and a few more hours....
arduous Synonyms:
burdensome
demanding
exhausting
fatiguing
laborious
onerous
strenuous
wearisome
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they had muties versus bos i think earlier in iterations, but was removed because of fear of "salvagers", players that have no intention of fighting, just to loot scraps of high tier weapons and armor. This goes against *cough* Jovankas *cough* developers core belief that high tier gear shouldn't be attainable except with arduous pointless chore like grind work.... hours and hours of grind mine craft work...... hours and hours of........ hours and hours...... hours and hours..... oh and a blueprint! :)
......and an Advanced Workbench!
That's a big pile of bullshit. Most of stuff you can easily obtain by farming, end of the line (If you're noob you'll still be craftign sharpened poles).
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It isnt about know how but Lets make balanced encounters.
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That's a big pile of bullshit. Most of stuff you can easily obtain by farming, end of the line (If you're noob you'll still be craftign sharpened poles).
....And the reason why they were removed oh wise one?
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Great suggestion +1,I remember there was an NCR army vs super mutants remnants encounter at the very start of this session but devs removed it because remnants would always win and ca mkII was easily farmable.
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Great suggestion +1,I remember there was an NCR army vs super mutants remnants encounter at the very start of this session but devs removed it because remnants would always win and ca mkII was easily farmable.
Sadly I was still a noob back when we had those, but I remember well enough to know CAMKII wouldn't be so easy to get if those muties were hostile to us by default.
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Great suggestion +1,I remember there was an NCR army vs super mutants remnants encounter at the very start of this session but devs removed it because remnants would always win and ca mkII was easily farmable.
If you are lucky you can still meet NCR Army vs Mutants Remnants enc.
Anyway I approve this, +1.
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Well according to the fallout canon the NCR vs BoS war has started about the time this game is set in,so NCR army vs BoS patrol maybe?
Also about the khans north of BH,they are mercs hired to attack Vault City (I think they were hired by the Bishop family who is working along with Roger Westin so they could .... do something I don't know)
Also can we have the V15 squaters and raiders back?That way we could canonize the area and get more raider vs ncr encounters in it.
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Well according to the fallout canon the NCR vs BoS war has started about the time this game is set in,so NCR army vs BoS patrol maybe?
In 2238 it's closer to cold war, not enough for situation when both factions will happily burst each other.
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In 2238 it's closer to cold war, not enough for situation when both factions will happily burst each other.
According to my pipboy its 2247.
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Sadly I was still a noob back when we had those, but I remember well enough to know CAMKII wouldn't be so easy to get if those muties were hostile to us by default.
Actually the super mutant remnants were not hostile and they wouldn't even loot, so all you needed to do to farm ca mkII was wait until muties killed them.
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Finally someone said it, I know I've thought a few times "What if... so and so Vs whatever..." but I never really said nothing about it. It makes alot of sense when you think about it. +1
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The idea is about not getting the stuff so easily as it would be before, player should be forced to put some effort, not just searching proper encounter and take rest stuff away, that's just lame - and that's why they were removed, simple.
It is not that hard to create alt for farming, or farm with main alt, whatever, just take your friends or go solo and kill ncr army/unity/anything you need to get the stuff you need.
Example: I've got a laser spammer/bg hybrid who can kill unity vs anything easily in turn based, looting all stuff and losing nothing, same would be with others (planned bg on ncr army)... but if someone needs that kind of stuff should know that he need to spent something to get it, not just pointless clicking on worldmap.
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The idea is about not getting the stuff so easily as it would be before, player should be forced to put some effort, not just searching proper encounter and take rest stuff away, that's just lame - and that's why they were removed, simple.
It is not that hard to create alt for farming, or farm with main alt, whatever, just take your friends or go solo and kill ncr army/unity/anything you need to get the stuff you need.
Example: I've got a laser spammer/bg hybrid who can kill unity vs anything easily in turn based, looting all stuff and losing nothing, same would be with others (planned bg on ncr army)... but if someone needs that kind of stuff should know that he need to spent something to get it, not just pointless clicking on worldmap.
I don't know about you but my farmers have low rep with almost every farmable NPC faction.
An Unity vs. VC encounter would be much more intense than watching these groups separately smash pigrats.
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The idea is about not getting the stuff so easily as it would be before, player should be forced to put some effort, not just searching proper encounter and take rest stuff away, that's just lame - and that's why they were removed, simple.
It is not that hard to create alt for farming, or farm with main alt, whatever, just take your friends or go solo and kill ncr army/unity/anything you need to get the stuff you need.
Example: I've got a laser spammer/bg hybrid who can kill unity vs anything easily in turn based, looting all stuff and losing nothing, same would be with others (planned bg on ncr army)... but if someone needs that kind of stuff should know that he need to spent something to get it, not just pointless clicking on worldmap.
No,I don't think that this suggestion is about farming.
It has something to do with farming ,no doubt about that but it's not aimed towards it.
It's goal is to bring balance to NPC fights.
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The idea is about not getting the stuff so easily as it would be before, player should be forced to put some effort, not just searching proper encounter and take rest stuff away, that's just lame - and that's why they were removed, simple.
It is not that hard to create alt for farming, or farm with main alt, whatever, just take your friends or go solo and kill ncr army/unity/anything you need to get the stuff you need.
Example: I've got a laser spammer/bg hybrid who can kill unity vs anything easily in turn based, looting all stuff and losing nothing, same would be with others (planned bg on ncr army)... but if someone needs that kind of stuff should know that he need to spent something to get it, not just pointless clicking on worldmap.
Take no offence to this bro but you don't really need to actually put any effort into farming. Even my gimped alt can just bang bang pew pew a Hub Patrol in 2 minutes, sell the armor at the gun runners and walk out with basically anything.
Really the reason for this suggestion is just so we can actually have fun watching NPC's fight again. I mean of course it would be a loot problem so maybe make encounters smaller? But I understand where you are coming from.
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Take no offence to this bro
Really the reason for this suggestion is just so we can actually have fun watching NPC's fight again.
Look, such encounters gave away free stuff, it isn't good and wasn't acceptable. There is nothing more easier then just looting bodies, takes zero effort. It's a matter of understanding that. If the ability to loot those encounters where cut off, then massive whine follows and everyone forgets that they want to watch fun fights of factions, witch by the way are very linear and would get boring after few encounters, not some values that stay.
Take no offense bro, but it's just waste of time implementing them and your argumentation is pretty much invalid in all ways possible to imagine.
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According to my pipboy its 2247.
I should write "FOnline: 2238", sorry.
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I should write "FOnline: 2238", sorry.
It's always year 2238 there. His Pip Boy might get broken.
Back to theme: There is no real use of this like 'vs.' encounters except easy loot. Come on, if there will be Unity vs. VC every farmer will look right for that encounters, so VC/Unity will have less use separately plus player will have double stuff profit from that. It's unacceptable from major game rule.
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if you gona farm certain type of stuff(VC, enclave,unity ,whatever...) you gona look for as frequent encos as possible.So if this type of encos will be only like 10% of all encounters (for example 30% chance to encounter Enclave and 33% chance to encounter Tough deathclaws in this certain sector) this will be pretty inefficient for farming this way and option to create farming alt and use it to get this hi tier stuff will be still better, but it will be possible to encounter both groups in same encounter and watch them fighting too :)
Also dont forget that NPC are looting everything dead after fight so random bluesuit has very low chance to get anything from such encounter anyway :)
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No need to step back and make encounters effortless once again, its working just fine now.
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Also dont forget that NPC are looting everything dead after fight so random bluesuit has very low chance to get anything from such encounter anyway :)
Human brain exploits once again, just find those encounters with slaves/mercenaries, combining both is very easy way how to gather full party and find encounters just like you do with a 10 player group, you get enormous encounters, set all of the followers to flee as soon as they see combat and then just watch the fireworks and loot afterwards.
Not sure whether that encounter still exists, but I did it on Unity vs NCR caravan at start of session near broken hills. Free items from both factions, sometimes Unity wins, sometimes NCR caravan wins, randomly depends on how much NPC spawned for both.
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Any fool can farm hundreds of sniper rifles, laser rifles and m60s by himself if he has the gear and the proper build, giving a decent opponent to each of these factions change nothing, if you're worried about ninja looters just make them lose rep whenever they loot what doesn't belong to them.
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i ll have to agree with tomowolf.dont mess with encounters.farming is very easy as it is.i dont give a f.. to watch those npc fighting eatch other.