fodev.net
Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Gunstar on December 08, 2012, 02:07:44 am
-
If it ain't broke don't fix it, this is a really good suggestion for your game, seems things that get fixed make the game worse follow this advice. Its a common saying, it is great words of wisdom maybe try think of its meaning.
If it isn't broken, like a machine running perfecly fine or a table that stands, then don't fix the machine or try to adjust the leg on the table because the machine won't run properly or the table collapses. Pretty easy concept don't you think?
-
Oh I can tell your gonna be a snarky bastard. Making your rage posts everywhere? But I can agree, game features that are not broken or don't need repair should be left alone but the problem is that this is a beta, things are still being worked out and the dev's are trying to find what works best, they are experimenting mmkay???
-
Oh I can tell your gonna be a snarky bastard. Making your rage posts everywhere? But I can agree, game features that are not broken or don't need repair should be left alone but the problem is that this is a beta, things are still being worked out and the dev's are trying to find what works best, they are experimenting mmkay???
Yes but the devs "fix" things to their likings, not to the players likings. That is why they lose more and more players every update. Only us faithful players will remain. ;)
-
Yes but the devs "fix" things to their likings, not to the players likings. That is why they lose more and more players every update. Only us faithful players will remain. ;)
Until they Wipe, then servers are flooded for a few days before the rage quits, rage posts and complaining start again. Lets say they do something about fast relog...
"fast relog is tutully gay fuking devs, me gotta wait 10 mins just to rewog on ma crafter bitch I quit"
They remove all the extra guards in NCR
"Faking campers be trolling ma ncr game is dead i quit anyone who play dis gam is queercocksuck"
They change town control in any way shape or form.
"FAK YOU DEVS! You ruined TC even mooor! fax it or i fucking quit forever again"
See its never really gonna end. No matter what you do someone is gonna hate it and rage.
-
Until they Wipe, then servers are flooded for a few days before the rage quits, rage posts and complaining start again. Lets say they do something about fast relog...
"fast relog is tutully gay fuking devs, me gotta wait 10 mins just to rewog on ma crafter bitch I quit"
They remove all the extra guards in NCR
"Faking campers be trolling ma ncr game is dead i quit anyone who play dis gam is queercocksuck"
They change town control in any way shape or form.
"FAK YOU DEVS! You ruined TC even mooor! fax it or i fucking quit forever again"
See its never really gonna end. No matter what you do someone is gonna hate it and rage.
Yes this is true, but I'm sure the devs noticed how many players they have nowadays compared to how many players they had in 2009 - early 2011. Even a mentally challenged old lady could see that it needs to be reverted back to the way it was then. You'd have to be an inbred mentally dead vegetable with three cancer tumors growing on each side of your walnut sized brain, to not know that it should be changed back.... Sorry for my brief rage there, but i just said it how it is.
-
Yes this is true, but I'm sure the devs noticed how many players they have nowadays compared to how many players they had in 2009 - early 2011. Even a mentally challenged old lady could see that it needs to be reverted back to the way it was then. You'd have to be an inbred mentally dead vegetable with three cancer tumors growing on each side of your walnut sized brain, to not know that it should be changed back.... Sorry for my brief rage there, but i just said it how it is.
Can't argue with ya there Gimp :-\
-
there are less people because the game is slow to develop, has no direction, looks outdated, isn't fun, is populated by douches, etc. The peaks of player pop were people checking the game out, now that they know what it is they won't be coming back.
-
there are less people because the game is slow to develop, has no direction, looks outdated, isn't fun, is populated by douches, etc. The peaks of player pop were people checking the game out, now that they know what it is they won't be coming back.
I don't believe this. There was definitely a very nice, stable amount of people who played the game throughout the years. Only recently has this stability been disrupted.
-
I don't believe this. There was definitely a very nice, stable amount of people who played the game throughout the years. Only recently has this stability been disrupted.
This is exactly the point I'm trying to make. If the downfall started recently (late 2011 as I stated earlier) then, why not change it back to how the players liked it. The devs changed and updated it to how they want. not to the suit of the players. It's almost like they WANT Fonline to be dead.
-
This is exactly the point I'm trying to make. If the downfall started recently (late 2011 as I stated earlier) then, why not change it back to how the players liked it. The devs changed and updated it to how they want. not to the suit of the players. It's almost like they WANT Fonline to be dead.
I think right now, fixing crafting and blueprints would probably satisfy alot of people. I also think barter should be an outstanding issue that needs attention.
-
This is exactly the point I'm trying to make. If the downfall started recently (late 2011 as I stated earlier)
If you mean number of active players, it didn't start recently.
There was definitely a very nice, stable amount of people who played the game throughout the years. Only recently has this stability been disrupted.
You are wrong. And I'm slightly tired of reading this, so I prepared a chart based on monthly
Server-Boy statistics: http://i47.tinypic.com/abnq5h.gif
Sadly no data from the first 9.5 months, so I only drew an approximation based on my memory
and the trend.
I don't remember exactly how it was in the very beginning, but as far as I remember "over 500
people" was always the largest peaks, if someone played only during peak hours then I suppose
that's what the player remembers as "normal"...
But I'm quite sure that in February 2010 over 500 people was already unusual. Izual and me made
the over-hyped NCR defense event (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3880395/ncr2.jpg) back then, it was done on weekend evening, advertised on the
forum for several days, and I do remember quite clearly that we noticed the number of players on
the server went to over 500 during the event and I thought that there is as many players as in the
beginning of the OBT.
If there is any stability then it's now (although maybe not with as many players as you would like).
-
Nice screenshot, hehe good times. Sadly, you seem to be right. :'(
-
So, the game has been dying for a long time now. Nothing new, moving on.
-
If you mean number of active players, it didn't start recently.
You are wrong. And I'm slightly tired of reading this, so I prepared a chart based on monthly
Server-Boy statistics: http://i47.tinypic.com/abnq5h.gif
Sadly no data from the first 9.5 months, so I only drew an approximation based on my memory
and the trend.
The very chart you show me, shows the playerbase slowly declining, the largest drop and where we're stuck now after the last wipe.
So uh, what? Unless I'm reading it wrong?
I don't remember exactly how it was in the very beginning, but as far as I remember "over 500
people" was always the largest peaks, if someone played only during peak hours then I suppose
that's what the player remembers as "normal"...
I remember 300-400 being normal and very alive. At night it was maybe 150-250. On the weekends,
My time naturally -.-.
But I'm quite sure that in February 2010 over 500 people was already unusual. Izual and me made
the over-hyped NCR defense event (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3880395/ncr2.jpg) back then, it was done on weekend evening, advertised on the
forum for several days, and I do remember quite clearly that we noticed the number of players on
the server went to over 500 during the event and I thought that there is as many players as in the
beginning of the OBT.
If there is any stability then it's now (although maybe not with as many players as you would like).
By stability, I am mostly saying that:
stable = enough players to not feel like it's a dead game, and you could predict at what times how many players would be online.
It used to be, 350-400 at very peak hours, 250-300 before and just after peak. and then it dropped to about 100-200 randomly. Right now it's at 200 peak, 50-100 at lowest. This is ridiculous.
-
Nice screenshot, hehe good times. Sadly, you seem to be right. :'(
I remember those days :)
-
If a you want to have more players then spread the info about fonline on some mmo websites, forums etc.
-
...
2nd session = 250-400 players in the evenings, about ~200 at the end of session
3rd session = same
4th session = most players, sometimes 500+ in the evenings and as many as 100-140 in the morning (yeah lol). the highest peak was 590 or so.
5th and later -> see Server-Boy statistics
keep in mind that in 3-5th sessions fastrelogging was forbidden.
-
4th session = most players, sometimes 500+ in the evenings and as many as 100-140 in the morning (yeah lol). the highest peak was 590 or so.
The chart shows a little more than the second half of the 4th session.
The highest peaks were below 450 at that time already.
The server could be swarmed by players in the beginning of the 4th session, I don't remember.
I remember I tried playing TLA at the end of 2nd session, because I was bored already. I think
many players were bored near the end of 2nd session, and many players remember it as great
mostly because of the first 2 months of OBT when server was novelty for so many players.
What is 2 months compared to 5th or 6th sessions when players know the game inside-out.
Personally I would prefer if server was wiped on regular basis, every 3 months or so.
But it would make more sense if there were some "winning conditions" for gangs.
-
Personally I would prefer if server was wiped on regular basis, every 3 months or so.
But it would make more sense if there were some "winning conditions" for gangs.
It should have something to do with an egg....
-
It should have something to do with an egg....
You mean like... put an shitloads of hi-end gear into antimatter generator... then use easter egg as catalizator... and protect it for 48 hours straight and then add another egg and server gets wiped?
-
I was thinking more about something like that:
- the date of wipe (end game) is known upfront
- let's say game session lasts 3 months
- in the first month gangs get 1 point for doing something (like controlling a town or whatever it would be, we all know TC isn't perfect), in the second month 2 points, in the third month 4 points - this is to prevent result easily set in the beginning of the game by a strong gang
- there is some ranking which shows the result / gang ranking
- gang with highest ranking wins the session when the wipe (end game) comes
- there could be some special condition, *very difficult* to achieve (but not "random"), for winning even with smaller ranking to keep the game interesting till the very end
- during ongoing session updates with fixes and changes which couldn't skew the result are done
- with wipe all significant gameplay changes are pushed on public server and everything starts over
-
That works the moment getting cars, bases, gear and everything else won't take those 3 months in first place.
-
I'd support this idea in general (some adjustment on the scheduled wipe intervall would be needed here, like avv already mentioned) but i guess loners and smaller factions wouldn't like it. There should be a similar point system for players, who aren't involved in TC and stuff like that.
-
rant against players
oh look who we have there. The Dev defense force is back !
Welcome stranger, new in town ?
You can tell me anything you want, if you want to see how the game really dies, come to NCR, the last overabundant place in fonline full of decadence. 4 Players during prime times will look like a boon to you.
But honestly, the game's population was stable for a long time. Even when people quit last season being fed up with waiting, it wasn't that severe. Just check out how many of the game's demi-gods perished, you'll know what I'm about. Or have you seen Larry lately ?
-
grim you still here?
-
grim you still here?
Yes I am, missed me ? I planning my next coup already
-
I was thinking more about something like that:
- the date of wipe (end game) is known upfront
- let's say game session lasts 3 months
- in the first month gangs get 1 point for doing something (like controlling a town or whatever it would be, we all know TC isn't perfect), in the second month 2 points, in the third month 4 points - this is to prevent result easily set in the beginning of the game by a strong gang
- there is some ranking which shows the result / gang ranking
- gang with highest ranking wins the session when the wipe (end game) comes
- there could be some special condition, *very difficult* to achieve (but not "random"), for winning even with smaller ranking to keep the game interesting till the very end
- during ongoing session updates with fixes and changes which couldn't skew the result are done
- with wipe all significant gameplay changes are pushed on public server and everything starts over
Personally I would prefer if server was wiped on regular basis, every 3 months or so.
But it would make more sense if there were some "winning conditions" for gangs.
If I'd go through all reasons of why is this good, It'd be a huge wall of text.
Supported.
-
Statistics (the Most takeovers, the Longest controlled town, Time sum of all controlled towns, the Most kills/deaths ...) revolving around gangs would make the game more competitive and thus, more fun.
Individual statistics are a lot more abusable and frankly, few give a fuck.
grim -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYf_UJVKU_o
-
would make the game more competitive and thus, more fun.
Individual statistics are a lot more abusable and frankly, few give a fuck.
The game is already incredibly competitive.
-
Actually, theres not much to fight for atm.
-Loot from enemy corpses/TC box. At this stage, everyone has enough loot
-Fun
-Gang name as a controller of a certain town. Just take towns at nightly hours.
Theres are no means how to tell, which gang is better in a measurable way. It could be a lot better with those kinds of statistics.
-
Not much to fight for? What about victory?
You can prepare infinitely but our players are too lazy to do it. For example there is no limit to how many slaveleaders you can bring on worldmap.
Theres are no means how to tell, which gang is better in a measurable way. It could be a lot better with those kinds of statistics.
I believe every tc player knows which team dominates the wasteland.
-
I believe every tc player knows which team dominates the wasteland.
Let me guess, it's BBS consisting of all gangs of the wasteland except of Hawks and SoT? :)
-
The game is already incredibly competitive.
Not much to fight for? What about victory?
Competitive, I suppose so, but there is not much tied to it. There is no end-goal, fighting purely for the fight is cool and all, but there has to be more reason behind it, that is when more players are going to get interested, will have a reason to stay and continue playing. Current TC is just beacon saying "hey, we wanna fight, care to come?", it could be "hey, were literally taking over the wasteland and sucking resources to win at the end of session and be deemed the best, care to do something about it?" We could have best player statistics, hall of fame and some symbolic prizes for the best or those who have put the most effort of trying to achieve dominance. If the session would go on only for 3 months, resources would be prime target each time of the start of the session and 3 months is just enough time for those resources to matter until the end, my opinion of course depending on current sessions experience(though the income of resources have to be lowered by quite a bit in general). To prevent strong gangs dominating completely, the resources could be lowered for the first weeks from start of Wipe that come from TC box. So, other teams have better chances of taking the upper hand later. It's good that it all is in 3 month period, not only for the competing factions, but for any player, it's always fun to start fresh, enjoy the start of the session and Wipe doesn't have to be tied to large amount of changes. It's enough that the game is properly polished, refined, the in game content working as intended and even if we wouldn't get much of those 3 months concerning updates, it would fine knowing that each Wipe wouldn't be full of bugs, exploits and there wouldn't be too many radical changes witch at first nobody likes, but instead slowly adding the necessary features. That all would happen periodically, anyway, it's a matter of getting used to for the change-logs being smaller at the start Wipe, hence the topic name ''If it ain't broke don't fix it." I am talking about stability, players like constant things and don't want changes for stuff they already like and enjoy, because in practice usually it ruins the game for them. Those big change-logs doesn't help in that regard, developers literally would have more control of what they do, development would be more constant instead of trying to present us a new game each time, judging of how much they try to squeeze in Wipe, it's unnecessary. Then if there is damage done caused by bugs, exploits and broken features despite all the hard work, player could count on that Wipe is not very far and if there is something like the broken bank system money, current amount drugs from TC box, exploited Gatling's, not sure what kind of bugs/exploits existed before I started to play, but I am more than sure there has been a lot worse shit seen by other players, witch ultimately makes the game less enjoyable, that all would periodically be fixed - stability of game development.
I thought too far, sorry.
-
Wall888, again ...
-
NothoughtprocessDocan, again.
-
Competitive, I suppose so, but there is not much tied to it. There is no end-goal, fighting purely for the fight is cool and all, but there has to be more reason behind it, that is when more players are going to get interested, will have a reason to stay and continue playing. Current TC is just beacon saying "hey, we wanna fight, care to come?", it could be "hey, were literally taking over the wasteland and sucking resources to win at the end of session and be deemed the best, care to do something about it?" We could have best player statistics, hall of fame and some symbolic prizes for the best or those who have put the most effort of trying to achieve dominance. If the session would go on only for 3 months, resources would be prime target each time of the start of the session and 3 months is just enough time for those resources to matter until the end, my opinion of course depending on current sessions experience(though the income of resources have to be lowered by quite a bit in general). To prevent strong gangs dominating completely, the resources could be lowered for the first weeks from start of Wipe that come from TC box. So, other teams have better chances of taking the upper hand later. It's good that it all is in 3 month period, not only for the competing factions, but for any player, it's always fun to start fresh, enjoy the start of the session and Wipe doesn't have to be tied to large amount of changes. It's enough that the game is properly polished, refined, the in game content working as intended and even if we wouldn't get much of those 3 months concerning updates, it would fine knowing that each Wipe wouldn't be full of bugs, exploits and there wouldn't be too many radical changes witch at first nobody likes, but instead slowly adding the necessary features. That all would happen periodically, anyway, it's a matter of getting used to for the change-logs being smaller at the start Wipe, hence the topic name ''If it ain't broke don't fix it." I am talking about stability, players like constant things and don't want changes for stuff they already like and enjoy, because in practice usually it ruins the game for them. Those big change-logs doesn't help in that regard, developers literally would have more control of what they do, development would be more constant instead of trying to present us a new game each time, judging of how much they try to squeeze in Wipe, it's unnecessary. Then if there is damage done caused by bugs, exploits and broken features despite all the hard work, player could count on that Wipe is not very far and if there is something like the broken bank system money, current amount drugs from TC box, exploited Gatling's, not sure what kind of bugs/exploits existed before I started to play, but I am more than sure there has been a lot worse shit seen by other players, witch ultimately makes the game less enjoyable, that all would periodically be fixed - stability of game development.
If someone manages to read this wall of crap, please share your feelings with us!
-
Don't be such a trivial mammal, not my problem you can't comprehend more words than usual. :)
Here, this will suit you better.
(http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/3369/fairytailn.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/405/fairytailn.png/)
-
A barrier of text
I'm not going to discuss any bugs, but the cycles of 3 months and the ways to get stuff in that time.
People have different speeds when it comes to farming. Some gangs are so organized and have so much time in their hands they can obtain the best equipment and characters almost immediately. Not everyone is so gifted and blessed with free time. Right at this moment that 3 month cycle would not work because of the farming required to take part in player to player activities, especially tc. Hard farmers are rewarded now quite handsomely, with a cyclic gameplay the winner would be the hardest farmer always.
It would also plain suck to level the same chars over and over every 3 months, set the network of bases and so on.
-
I'm aware of that, though you are right about organized factions and players who literally have more time, but what do you want to fix? I don't get it. To reach a point where it doesn't matter how much you play or how organized you are and everyone has equal chances, no matter what? Come on, how does that supposed to work? It's natural that part of players excel, let it be more time or knowledge, but still. I'm already talking about some sort of precautions that wouldn't allow strong factions dominate so quickly by reducing resources that you gain from TC, but that only works to certain extent.
3 months is quite a bit of time actually, maybe it would force players to work together more, your talking from a perspective of an individual who is self-sufficient, I am talking from a perspective where a large group of players work together in order to achieve something. This is an MMO, players supposed to work together. If it's hard for you as an individual, the game shouldn't adapt to you, but you to the game.
-
Competitive, I suppose so, but there is not much tied to it. There is no end-goal, fighting purely for the fight is cool and all, but there has to be more reason behind it, that is when more players are going to get interested, will have a reason to stay and continue playing. Current TC is just beacon saying "hey, we wanna fight, care to come?", it could be "hey, were literally taking over the wasteland and sucking resources to win at the end of session and be deemed the best, care to do something about it?" We could have best player statistics, hall of fame and some symbolic prizes for the best or those who have put the most effort of trying to achieve dominance. If the session would go on only for 3 months, resources would be prime target each time of the start of the session and 3 months is just enough time for those resources to matter until the end, my opinion of course depending on current sessions experience(though the income of resources have to be lowered by quite a bit in general). To prevent strong gangs dominating completely, the resources could be lowered for the first weeks from start of Wipe that come from TC box. So, other teams have better chances of taking the upper hand later. It's good that it all is in 3 month period, not only for the competing factions, but for any player, it's always fun to start fresh, enjoy the start of the session and Wipe doesn't have to be tied to large amount of changes. It's enough that the game is properly polished, refined, the in game content working as intended and even if we wouldn't get much of those 3 months concerning updates, it would fine knowing that each Wipe wouldn't be full of bugs, exploits and there wouldn't be too many radical changes witch at first nobody likes, but instead slowly adding the necessary features. That all would happen periodically, anyway, it's a matter of getting used to for the change-logs being smaller at the start Wipe, hence the topic name ''If it ain't broke don't fix it." I am talking about stability, players like constant things and don't want changes for stuff they already like and enjoy, because in practice usually it ruins the game for them. Those big change-logs doesn't help in that regard, developers literally would have more control of what they do, development would be more constant instead of trying to present us a new game each time, judging of how much they try to squeeze in Wipe, it's unnecessary. Then if there is damage done caused by bugs, exploits and broken features despite all the hard work, player could count on that Wipe is not very far and if there is something like the broken bank system money, current amount drugs from TC box, exploited Gatling's, not sure what kind of bugs/exploits existed before I started to play, but I am more than sure there has been a lot worse shit seen by other players, witch ultimately makes the game less enjoyable, that all would periodically be fixed - stability of game development.
I thought too far, sorry.
MY EYES THEY ARE BLEEEDIIING
-
I'm aware of that, though you are right about organized factions and players who literally have more time, but what do you want to fix? I don't get it.
There are two ways to help the people with less time:
Either you have infinite time to prepare like now.
Or the ceiling of preparing is lower, meaning that high end stuff like gatlings, avengers, hard drugs, best armors and so on are deleted. So that you basically have a pvp set after killing a single unity patrol.
3 months is quite a bit of time actually, maybe it would force players to work together more, your talking from a perspective of an individual who is self-sufficient, I am talking from a perspective where a large group of players work together in order to achieve something. This is an MMO, players supposed to work together. If it's hard for you as an individual, the game shouldn't adapt to you, but you to the game.
Loners will be loners. I think it's completely plausible that in 2238 world there are self-sufficient individuals. It doesn't matter that they farm alone because they will add to the game in their own way. But they can't do that if they can't get the stuff in first place.
-
Avv vs T-888, round 2, FIGHT!
-
There are two ways to help the people with less time:
Either you have infinite time to prepare like now.
Or the ceiling of preparing is lower, meaning that high end stuff like gatlings, avengers, hard drugs, best armors and so on are deleted. So that you basically have a pvp set after killing a single unity patrol.
Loners will be loners. I think it's completely plausible that in 2238 world there are self-sufficient individuals. It doesn't matter that they farm alone because they will add to the game in their own way. But they can't do that if they can't get the stuff in first place.
Look, there are players who don't add to the game at all, even with the infinitive time granted, they have the stuff, but there is no motivation to use it. There are the part of players, that have bases full of stuff, but yet they run around naked and troll other players, despite they had a year to farm that stuff. They aren't interested in blunt fighting, the activity by itself is boring for some, but if something more than that would be tied to it, in theory it could interest more players.
So, basically you want to make stuff easier to obtain, reasonable to achieve the necessary amount. Hey, it's already being done, for example, current change of armor system allows players to farm them instead of craft that requires blueprints and resources. If you'd count out the problems that FR provides, the game has been significantly eased since the Wipe, if you don't agree we could talk about that more. Besides, once you kill one unity patrol encounter, you get most of the set of needed equipment to fight, mediocre armor, weapon, ammunition and the rest you need is drugs witch can be obtained, traded by the extra items you gain from the encounter.
Increasing item availability decreases the value of the particular equipment eased to obtain. There has to be a line, otherwise we will find ourselves like in Fallout online tactics, I'm not aware if you played it for the short time it was active, but there was a valuable lesson to be learned. So, the deal was that you get free items from a terminal, the only restriction was that there was a fixed amount of time, no resources needed, no logistics, nothing. The only limit was a ticking clock, the effort to gain the equipment was so low, that players ran around with the equipment just as casually as they would do naked on 2238. The gear had so minimal worth, that players didn't even bother to pick it up after fighting, large part of the game just vanished away.
Point is, when stuff is made easier to obtain, you have to be damn careful about it. I'm not fond of making stuff easy (because of the value thing, ask any member of SOT, they will tell you that stuff is way to easy to get, then it gets boring), not because I sit and farm 24/7 and not that someone from my faction does that, just because I know how a large group of people does it. If you make it easier for loners, call them whatever you want, you make it easier for organized factions too. So, if you think making equipment easier to farm, get in general, that will not essentially help loners in the regard of the 3 month period, it's just going to result in faster dominance of organized factions, we'd be back at point zero. Though making the game more bearable concerning time consumption, is something I support for the greater good.
Avv vs T-888, round 2, FIGHT!
Meanwhile the common player of 2238 observes(not reading, but observing, children learn by observing) the discussion.
(http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/2538/meanwhilen.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/248/meanwhilen.png/)
-
I think 3 month wipes and random changes here and there could work if the farming was easily done for everything. Like you farm drugs, caps and stuff by farming NPCs not tedius crafting and spending 5 months trying to find random blue prints to get that one that is truly needed.
A fast paced stat game on which gang does the best is a pretty good idea for those who are interested in the competition. But the thing that will always set this back and why people go solo like myself and AVV is because of base rapes. All it takes is 1 little new recruit who you think is some friendly guy to steal it all set you back another week, really I think this encourages more griefing and trolling, and gangs sabotage trolling eachother would make people quit not bring back players.
Maybe throw in some other things which aren't PvP related like faction which crafted the most, or richest faction like a locked chest where gang would store caps in to get caluclated. Maybe have something like best decorated base, messiest base. Just random goofiness to go along for those who aren't as serious about pvp like some of us. Remember this is a game of mixture of PvP and PvE players, so there needs to be rewards that fit the needs of both not just PvP or just PvE.
And yes I read t-888's posts but please next time t-888 learn the concept of the paragraph.
Oh and I guess this is where this stupid rumor started I was vile... I started this thread becuase hinkly was making me mad, something that wasn't broken and was fixed I got really mad becuase idiots stole my armor and avenger as I was switching characters and I couldn't get any more stuff for the next fight. But I solved this problem by making 10 blue suits to get gear, yup it has got to that point where you have to have 10-20 characters logged off inside hinkly to fight for an hour to regear.
-
All it takes is 1 little new recruit who you think is some friendly guy to steal it all set you back another week, really I think this encourages more griefing and trolling, and gangs sabotage trolling eachother would make people quit not bring back players.
Gr1m you won't convince yourself that you aren't yourself. I mean what the fuck? I remember you defending this opinion, precisely the same, with precisely the emphasis on certain words. Don't tell me it's a coincidence and your some new player or something, recently registered and talking like having played this whole session and even more. I can't discuss something with someone knowing he might be talking with me through multiple forum accounts, it's fucking retarded. I can't pretend I don't know.
-
There are two ways to help the people with less time:
Either you have infinite time to prepare like now.
Or the ceiling of preparing is lower, meaning that high end stuff like gatlings, avengers, hard drugs, best armors and so on are deleted. So that you basically have a pvp set after killing a single unity patrol.
Loners will be loners. I think it's completely plausible that in 2238 world there are self-sufficient individuals. It doesn't matter that they farm alone because they will add to the game in their own way. But they can't do that if they can't get the stuff in first place.
The 2nd session lasted less than 3 months and the loners were just fine and I don't
remember anyone complaining that they can't farm hundreds of armors and don't
have 30 bases and 15 cars. Don't remember anyone complaining about wipe either.
Next 2 sessions were pretty short too.
You feel insecure about it, because you look at the game from present perspective,
where you have dozens of alts, 20+ bases, thousands of items, dozens of cars...
there is no reason to consider it "normal" or good that you have thousands of items
that you will most likely never use this session. If you just want to fight, fight, fight
not to think about anything else, there is Hinkly.
I see nothing wrong with it, if you would have to balance producing/farming and
fighting. It could be part of the game, especially that only the gangs who want
to win the session would have to think about it, nothing would change for anyone
else. It's not like loners have some winning condition now.
The biggest thing that would require tweaking IMO would be how easily BPs can be
found and maybe speed of regeneration of resources in mines. And perhaps the
gunrunners workbench should be removed or somehow made less secure (e.g. you
could have to go through unsecured area to get there).
-
Gr1m you won't convince yourself that you aren't yourself. I mean what the fuck? I remember you defending this opinion, precisely the same, with precisely the emphasis on certain words. Don't tell me it's a coincidence and your some new player or something, recently registered and talking like having played this whole session and even more. I can't discuss something with someone knowing he might be talking with me through multiple forum accounts, it's fucking retarded. I can't pretend I don't know.
Maybe because they keep blocking everytime I write one posts, its back to one account for one post becuase my fat man account got banned.
Look I understand soldiers of thunderstorm play good becuase you do everything together, you go everywhere with your friends and this has work well for you, you give advice how to prevent such things. If people work together and not screw eachother over they would have more gear than if they raped a base I get that. You guys are good becuase of this, but as somebody who didn't really play with a huge long time faction last session, who wasn't in any huge faction such as yours I had a hard time trying to find people to play with that wouldn't dick me over and people quit leave go seperate ways quit the game etc, and it has left me doing everything solo.
But most likely if the game goes in jovankas suggestion of 3 month wipes with highly competitive stat bored maybe the hawks might try working together like SoT then that would work I would do that with them But for most part when you start losing numbers try to recruit make alliances etc and sometimes you get the griefer kid who wants to steal stuff for lolz.
I agreed with your post what are you attacking me for? I think its the stupidest thing ever when a person goes lolz didn't read becuase its the size of page in a book. I mean my god I've read 1,000 page books for school and people are going to be stupid say oh its to long didn't read but... whatever
I am getting a headache from the constant attacks and trolling. You wrote a wall of text people made stupid trollish comments, and I suggest writing paragraphs.
I liked jovankas idea, I am not out to troll and say mean things about everything a developer suggests... Some things just aggreviate me and I say harsh things, I get trolled get into a flame war then get banned its the same stupid thing over and over.
-
I hope you don't get banned automatically or something, I wouldn't want to talk to you on another forum account. Learn some moderation and don't get banned.
I think 3 month wipes and random changes here and there could work if the farming was easily done for everything. Like you farm drugs, caps and stuff by farming NPCs not tedius crafting and spending 5 months trying to find random blue prints to get that one that is truly needed.
If the logistics for FR based PvP would vanish ... that is the main problem of why so much grind is attached to this session. Other than that, I think it's easier than previous session, noting that blueprints were never meant to be gained like this. They were meant to be attached for quests, so generally most of them would be relatively easy to obtain, not sure whether developers still up to pursue this, now that they are attached to two dungeons.
A fast paced stat game on which gang does the best is a pretty good idea for those who are interested in the competition. But the thing that will always set this back and why people go solo like myself and AVV is because of base rapes. All it takes is 1 little new recruit who you think is some friendly guy to steal it all set you back another week, really I think this encourages more griefing and trolling, and gangs sabotage trolling eachother would make people quit not bring back players.
"normal" or good that you have thousands of items
that you will most likely never use this session
We've been talking about this before, find at least few guys who can trust each other and it is going to dramatically decrease the grind attached to the game. I've noticed from screens of individual players, that they usually have some sort of item surplus, it's more effectively used by a group of players, unless someone is too greedy and can't share. :)
This is of course only my opinion, though if I presume your absolutely right for a moment, what do you propose? Making stuff easy to obtain, so players have easier time of recovering from base rapes or easier time of not interacting with other players? Is there there a third option? Most likely not. :P
Remember this is a game of mixture of PvP and PvE players, so there needs to be rewards that fit the needs of both not just PvP or just PvE.
The main idea and focus is on player factions, the game once presumed a faction mod and factions consisting of players witch do player oriented activities, where the hell do you get vs environment? Sure it's part of the game, but it doesn't support the competitive side, witch is main point of all this, unless I understood it wrong?
-
I hope you don't get banned automatically or something, I wouldn't want to talk to you on another forum account. Learn some moderation and don't get banned.
The main idea and focus is on player factions, the game once presumed a faction mod and factions consisting of players witch do player oriented activities, where the hell do you get vs environment? Sure it's part of the game, but it doesn't support the competitive side, witch is main point of all this, unless I understood it wrong?
Yes this is getting really stupid I know, I cant even reply on PMs when they do this. This is the type of stupid shit I put up with all day long from these people.
Well some people aren't not big power gaming pvp apes like us, they play this game to meet in NCR go on hunts try to farm things on their own, play for crafting. Some people do not like PvP and just enjoy hunting unity or raiders for example and this is all they do. And why I suggest maybe some goofy stat awards like best base decoration and which faction base has the most caps would also appeal to these players. If you want to fix the drop numbers and keep interesting in the game you have to appeal to differnt play styles.
-
Not sure how a script would be able to determine esthetic values of some in game items orderly placed, it would be like telling a toaster to toast well looking bread with proper judgement. :)
The richest gang, I suppose it could be checked upon how much caps/resources distributed to the controlling faction through TC locker. Though as goofy, interesting it may sound for certain players, seems like a secondary thing witch can be expected to be of delayed implementation or ignored. There could be a statistic for the longest time of controlling faction for each city, but that would ultimately mean the faction witch has been in the most control, will have the most resources obtained. Having a separate statistic for that, is truly secondary.
-
Look, there are players who don't add to the game at all, even with the infinitive time granted, they have the stuff, but there is no motivation to use it. There are the part of players, that have bases full of stuff, but yet they run around naked and troll other players, despite they had a year to farm that stuff. They aren't interested in blunt fighting, the activity by itself is boring for some, but if something more than that would be tied to it, in theory it could interest more players.
Trolling is still interacting and its cause is that death has no punishment.
Besides such people probably won't fit in any faction or are looking for something else than pvp only and won't participate no matter what as long as competing with other players is the requirement.
So, basically you want to make stuff easier to obtain, reasonable to achieve the necessary amount. Hey, it's already being done, for example, current change of armor system allows players to farm them instead of craft that requires blueprints and resources. If you'd count out the problems that FR provides, the game has been significantly eased since the Wipe, if you don't agree we could talk about that more. Besides, once you kill one unity patrol encounter, you get most of the set of needed equipment to fight, mediocre armor, weapon, ammunition and the rest you need is drugs witch can be obtained, traded by the extra items you gain from the encounter.
Too much work still. I'm dealing with new recruits in our faction and biggest issue they have is the amount of farming needed. It always goes like this:
Recruit: "Hey I leveled this, am I ready now?"
Me: "No, you need to level this, this, this and this and farm this and this"
After that we don't hear from him again or see him idling in ncr.
Increasing item availability decreases the value of the particular equipment eased to obtain. There has to be a line, otherwise we will find ourselves like in Fallout online tactics, I'm not aware if you played it for the short time it was active, but there was a valuable lesson to be learned. So, the deal was that you get free items from a terminal, the only restriction was that there was a fixed amount of time, no resources needed, no logistics, nothing. The only limit was a ticking clock, the effort to gain the equipment was so low, that players ran around with the equipment just as casually as they would do naked on 2238. The gear had so minimal worth, that players didn't even bother to pick it up after fighting, large part of the game just vanished away.
Doesn't have to be so extreme. Current situation could be helped in rather easy ways like I mentioned about the top tier items. Loot is always worth looting if you'd have to work for it otherwise.
Point is, when stuff is made easier to obtain, you have to be damn careful about it.
But if there are those achievements everyone is after, why is stuff so big deal? You can unlock those achievements only by dominating the wasteland with brute force which means victories in pvp.
The 2nd session lasted less than 3 months and the loners were just fine and I don't
remember anyone complaining that they can't farm hundreds of armors and don't
have 30 bases and 15 cars. Don't remember anyone complaining about wipe either.
Next 2 sessions were pretty short too.
That's because they didn't know how to play. There wasn't for example fonline character planner made by Opera that is incredibly helpful when designing builds.
You feel insecure about it, because you look at the game from present perspective
But big gangs and hardest turbofarmers will have those bases, items, cars, everything while those who farm slower, won't have.
If you just want to fight, fight, fight
not to think about anything else, there is Hinkly.
The game offers rather limited ways when it comes to convincing other players to peace. Asking nicely doesn't work because many players just want to act violent for the sake of it.
The biggest thing that would require tweaking IMO would be how easily BPs can be
found and maybe speed of regeneration of resources in mines. And perhaps the
gunrunners workbench should be removed or somehow made less secure (e.g. you
could have to go through unsecured area to get there).
Not to mention the fact that best ways to do everything revolves around mutilogs, dual logs and one-task-alts.
-
I don't want to interrupt in this great discussion, but lemme throw my 2 grosze:
As a loner i've learned playing by several sessions, so now it isn't any problem to farm/get anything in game - only problem is that you won't do tc alone, rest is good afaik loners should at least gather up in groups of 2 - 5 then they can play like small gangs, because all of them got skills to life by "themselves" so they farm fast, exp alts etc.
It is just easy for loners, and do not say that no - I've got 12 about leveled up alts, about 5 bases filled with farmed/crafted stuff, and some money (even If I didn't play for some time I go inside the game and check how is it, and it isn't changing really much in loner gameplay style).
I can only agree in several things both with avv and T-888, game features doesn't need to be changed each time they suck, but just upgrade them enough - easy, less work.
-
Goals for TC sounds cool and all, but three month wipes on top of the grinding and "the wasteland is harsh" seems like a formula for reducing your playerbase to a handful of demo testers. Whether it's understood or not... bases, cars, and the ability to craft higher level gear are some of the ways an individual FOnline player can have a sense of accomplishment. It's the infrastructure that makes the game enjoyable and allows players to explore the world more easily.
-
The biggest thing that would require tweaking IMO would be how easily BPs can be
found and maybe speed of regeneration of resources in mines. And perhaps the
gunrunners workbench should be removed or somehow made less secure (e.g. you
could have to go through unsecured area to get there).
But the products of the advanced workbench are already less secure whenever you get killed in combat and lose them. The only thing that insecure workbenches encourage are the camping of bottleneck chokepoints and the control of advanced crafting by large factions only.
It takes an infrastructure to do advanced crafting as it stands, whether the bench is safe or not safe. Already raw materials are won hard and lost easily. So all increasing the difficulty does at this point is give players a good reason not to play the game.
-
I believe every tc player knows which team dominates the wasteland.
You mean VSB ? If not, prove me wrong. There are no global statistics that say, who is the best, just general feeling which can be deceiving (and biased).
-
Not sure how a script would be able to determine esthetic values of some in game items orderly placed, it would be like telling a toaster to toast well looking bread with proper judgement. :)
Probably damn near impossible and too complicated was thinking of something like a manual imput and voted upon or have a group of judges. Then the GM adds the winner to the scoreboard or stat board whatever.
Just ideas off the top of my head, but just something unrelated to just town control would be a nice touch to this idea. Maybe something like most brahmins, or most fire gecko pelts make use of something totally useless while having stupid goofy competitive fun.
-
Trolling is still interacting and its cause is that death has no punishment.
Besides such people probably won't fit in any faction or are looking for something else than pvp only and won't participate no matter what as long as competing with other players is the requirement.
True, trolling or similar activities is an casual style of play. Nothing wrong with that as long as it stays in reasonable measures. Penalty of death shouldn't be linear, that was discussed on one of the update topics.
Invalid argument, it's wrong to presume that all of the players dislike competing, or dislike competing for the same reasons. Of course there is the part of players who really doesn't like to compete at all, but I think it is a very small percent. There is a difference, currently a lot of players aren't fit for any faction, because of what is tied to competitive style of play, not much and much at the same time. Looking at what logistics are necessary, alt amount, we all know the issues witch are necessary to work out for the greater good, so more players can enjoy competing without unreasonable amount of time consumption, grind respectively.
Point still stays, if there would be something more tied to TC, more players would be interested in participating in such activities.
Too much work still. I'm dealing with new recruits in our faction and biggest issue they have is the amount of farming needed. It always goes like this:
Recruit: "Hey I leveled this, am I ready now?"
Me: "No, you need to level this, this, this and this and farm this and this"
After that we don't hear from him again or see him idling in ncr.
Well ... ::)
If you present all that to a new player like I think you do, no wonder why they don't see any point or goal for that. I hope you don't encourage them to start off with multiple combat alts just to participate somewhere. That is besides the point actually.
Point is, if you really are right and farming would be the major problem, the accessibility of equipment for common player in the 3 month period to enjoy the game properly, it would a matter of evaluating the problems and applying appropriate solutions to the shortened Wipe period. In other words testing. Much of what we talk is very plausible, it would be better if we see it in practice.
I'd say, will see.
Doesn't have to be so extreme. Current situation could be helped in rather easy ways like I mentioned about the top tier items. Loot is always worth looting if you'd have to work for it otherwise.
Sure, anything is welcomed for the common player to enjoy the game better, as long as the changes are in reasonable scales.
But if there are those achievements everyone is after, why is stuff so big deal? You can unlock those achievements only by dominating the wasteland with brute force which means victories in pvp.
Don't simplify things to just - victories. It's not only about victories, look at what is behind them, it's a struggle about resources, diplomacy, experience, organization, the ability to adapt and work together to achieve goals efficiently in hazardous environment, smart way of saying it's cool to dominate the harsh wasteland. The whole process is interesting. Something like that never gets old, if there is proper motivation for that and the initial suggestion is just an extra fuel for it. Statistics would allow factions to look at their own success, ranking in any game is fun and extra motivation to do better, an exact date of time to try again upon loss is even better for that. Something like that is common in other popular games.
That's because they didn't know how to play. There wasn't for example fonline character planner made by Opera that is incredibly helpful when designing builds.
Bad example. Look, after first few months of playing, I was making builds purely from memory and I didn't know shit about planner, everything happened through wiki, the character creation process is very simple once you get to know it. Character planner is just comfort, but that doesn't ultimately mean that players without it would be bad or something. Of course players back then were more inexperienced, but doesn't mean the game was suddenly a lot easier for them, quite the opposite.
But big gangs and hardest turbofarmers will have those bases, items, cars, everything while those who farm slower, won't have.
They will, just not as fast as others. It's all part of the wasteland domination theme. That is why some precautions of decreased resources for the strongest/fastest factions at start of Wipe can come in and decreased statistical advantage, so other players have better chance to catch up.
Turbofarmers will be turbofarmers, can't make features so guy doesn't sit near PC 24/7. ;D
advanced workbench
I personally really like that I have to organize some protection to go craft some large amounts of something and it is always exciting to meet players at that moment(though that rarely ever happens). I'm from a large faction and we don't control any workbench, I'm sorry. :)
Though your right about infrastructure, that is required to do crafting without much hassle, for any new player/common player that is a lot more complicated, forcing him to not only travel around the wasteland to obtain the resources, characters, professions, blueprints and only then allowing to use the advanced workbenches and even then at the cost of risk. It is a bit overkill, to be honest. For what I care, the advanced workbenches might be in safe places too, not tied to some reputation restrictions and some unnecessary bullshit.
... group of judges. Then the GM adds the winner to the scoreboard or stat board whatever.
I'm like more than sure that something like that is not going to happen. :)
-
I'm like more than sure that something like that is not going to happen. :)
Would be stupid and pointless to think they would just idea just speculating. Agian point being add in stupid funny fun you would be suprsied. You put up a title for something as stupid as the most brahmin collected. Womebody will collected those brahmins and fill the base until every last hex is filled. Agian fun stupid goofy things keep people around than the usual rage master bull shit game this is now which is drawing people away.
-
We already have all sort of individual statistics, best doctor, melee fighter and there is some silly stuff too, if you want more of them, that would need to be discussed separately as different suggestion as it barely touches factions or this subject to be honest. Though nothing wrong with your idea.
-
We already have all sort of individual statistics, best doctor, melee fighter and there is some silly stuff too, if you want more of them, that would need to be discussed separately as different suggestion as it barely touches factions or this subject to be honest. Though nothing wrong with your idea.
But those are invidual statistics, I am mostly talking about something done as a group of players added to the same base. Need more things that are fun and a good laugh than the usual rage master fuck this game rage quit state that it is in. That is why people are quiting its a rage master game that needs some troll face for those who like to laugh and have sense of humor. But laughing and sense of humor annoys people who run this game so... I guess they enjoy all their players getting pissed off and quiting, and that is the issue of the dropped numbers. And they seem to be blind by what they mod for this game makes people angry and quit and get offended when people say "hey look the player numbers are dropping it was bigger back in 2010, 2011 because the game was better and more enjoyable then".
-
But those are invidual statistics, I am mostly talking about something done as a group of players added to the same base.
If you got some creative ideas, nobody forces you to keep quite about them. It's easy to say for someone to make up what exactly it's going to be and how it is going to work.
-
If you got some creative ideas, nobody forces you to keep quite about them. It's easy to say for someone to make up what exactly it's going to be and how it is going to work.
Actually they kind of do... They just can't keep me quiet about them ;)
-
Actually they kind of do... They just can't keep me quiet about them ;)
Amen to that brother!