fodev.net
Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: avv on October 09, 2012, 02:17:14 pm
-
Superstims have taken the role of first aid. Some use it for leveling and in the beginning but that's just a fraction how players heal up and has nothing to do with later gameplay.
Do this:
- Merge doc and FA
- Get rid of cooldown. Shooting has no cooldown either, it consumes action points.
- Make the skill work so that when used, it spends all your action points and heals an amount of hps dependent on the action points spent and skill%. So you can use it even with 1 ap.
- It can cure cripples. But it has a chance based on skill% and aps spent. Have it so that after 4 full action point pools consumed, a cripple is guaranteed to heal. That means that if you have 10 aps and low FA, after spending 40 aps the cripple is guaranteed to be mended. But there's always a chance to heal at first time. So basically: after 20 seconds you won't be crippled anymore.
- Make it so that you can wake up knocked out players with FA. High skill increases the amount of aps restored.
Some of these could require a medic-item like doctor's bag to work so that you wouldn't get too much benefit without risking any gear.
-
Still takes skillpoints, still needs you to hit 5 and click on yourself. Using all ap and a medic bag just makes it even more useless compared to SS, it will never be a pvp skill and shouldn't be.
-
I mainly have farming character who have high FA and doc so i don't waste item for healing.
Item for healing is for PVP apes.
These are two different gameplay, that use different logics.
I won't say for sure, that the proposal is bad, but i am not confortable with mixing two logics that don't coexist. (or rarelly)
-
Some of these changes are questionable, whether effective or not.
I don't see making first aid another spammable ability a good idea, you are adapting first aid to be simmilar to SS mechanic and pumping yourself full of needles in seconds still viable what doesn't make any sense at all having no drawbacks.
- Make it so that you can wake up knocked out players with FA. High skill increases the amount of aps restored.
There is a perk called quick recovery witch is highly unused. Spammable is not the answer, such ability could be tied to doctor bags and first aid kids by default.
Do this:
- Merge doc and FA
- Get rid of cooldown. Shooting has no cooldown either, it consumes action points.
- Make the skill work so that when used, it spends all your action points and heals an amount of hps dependent on the action points spent and skill%. So you can use it even with 1 ap.
Different purposes for both skills.
Itemization could be the answer, having doctors bag in the hand gives some chance to heal cripples while doing FA and having first aid kit in hand healing some bonus amount on top of the doctors effect while using doctor.
Cooldown must stay, it just has to be a lot less in the 15-30 second range for average first aid out there, so it is viable in combat more often. Also can add that it should a lot less random, luck granting some bonuses and that is it.
First aid was good enough before the bind was implemented and players couldn't dump INT and if players couldn't steal SS in amount that they are dumped as some garbage in traders, should be fine.
-
It's very good suggestion. Avv for president!
-
I think president is not enough for him!
Avv for queen!
-
lol i agree with avv just cause i can CBF to get SS why should i wait 2 mins for FA
-
Add in cure radiation and poison then its golden.
-
Some of these could require a medic-item like doctor's bag to work so that you wouldn't get too much benefit without risking any gear.
I could see this working with item always required if you add some crap-bag made of items found in empty encounters (broc, fibers, etc.)
I'm curious however, how they will ever merge those skills. If they were up to make character progression more sense, gamble wouldn't be there anymore, and science could probably get married with repair as well.
-
Yes in the end we would find 5 skills in game, combat skill, medicine skill, tech knowledge or something, survival skill and social skill, then dumb down to 3 special stats (
vitality, dexterity, intellect, stamina energy )(stupid to actually level up each time a new alt right? So make stats come from armor so you don't have to make any choices), remove some more stats and choices( what healing rate? remove, that is stamina now, what critical chance? that is dexterity now witch will be higher depending on weapon only, what sequence, that will be intellect, armor class is dexterity too, what traits, make them available from quests with small bonuses and no disadvantages, what so much resistances, it all will be one variable - armor stat) and we would have nice modern day game, it makes sense ... ;D ;D
Don't like merging, but finding new ways how to differentiate existing skills is something worth to do.
-
Let's merge all special, trait, perk and skill, into one, that you take on level 1.
-
Let's merge all special, trait, perk and skill, into one, that you take on level 1.
then nerf it
-
Yes in the end we would find 5 skills in game, combat skill, medicine skill, tech knowledge or something, survival skill and social skill
That's the stupid way to look at stuff.
The question is, whether you really need to waste the skill and slot to get it, or whether you would like to have it as full dedicated character.
Now most people will generally agree that combat skills do make difference, so it's pretty nice to have a choice here.
But this FA/Doctor thing is a bit weird. If you wanna be a medic, there is no way you are taking just one, for everyone else, you will mostly have both undeveloped anyway.
For science and repair it's similar, currently the purpose of those things is rather to reach a cap to allow you doing things, rather than enjoy being scientist or technician.
Yes you could search for some better use for science. But the results will not vary from the basic reach-the-cap scenario. If you have dungeons when you need science to open the door, it's just annoyance with specific character requirement. If you want to add full computer minigame, you are basically moving further from fallout than by merging the skill with repair.
Additionally it's not only about skills being removed, there are some places for skills that could be added when there is some use for them. Just for example how Tactics got pilot skill, it made perfect sense there. There sure can be place for this stuff if you have the right idea.
-
That's the stupid way to look at stuff.
No, it is not like modern games are stupid, not at all.
The question is, whether you really need to waste the skill and slot to get it, or whether you would like to have it as full dedicated character.
The question is how you choose to balance your build out, what are you willing to sacrifice.
Now most people will generally agree that combat skills do make difference, so it's pretty nice to have a choice here.
But this FA/Doctor thing is a bit weird. If you wanna be a medic, there is no way you are taking just one, for everyone else, you will mostly have both undeveloped anyway.
First aid and doctor can't be undeveloped, if you can't max it out, it doesn't mean it has to be or is useless. What this suggestion is suggesting can be achieved by just lowering CD for both skills, so that they are more effective with less skill points invested. Merging is just what the truck, it is the same thing, if you merge both skills in the end you will need to invest twice as less skill points to be effective by having access to both of the mechanics that normally are two separate skills, witch if they stay in that way just purely leaves the player with more choice how to optimize and balance his build. Merging will allow more tag skills somewhere else, but at a cost of a skill what previously was something completely different than "medicine skill."
For science and repair it's similar, currently the purpose of those things is rather to reach a cap to allow you doing things, rather than enjoy being scientist or technician.
Yes you could search for some better use for science. But the results will not vary from the basic reach-the-cap scenario. If you have dungeons when you need science to open the door, it's just annoyance with specific character requirement. If you want to add full computer mini-game, you are basically moving further from fallout than by merging the skill with repair.
Science and repair is nothing similar, being a mechanic or a scientist, apples and oranges and no you don't need to cap either of them to use them in game somewhat effectively, disassembling gear is not the only mechanic science is tied to and even then you can science equipment with less than cap and still gain a lot of resources. If someone see it as a necessity to have a 300% science alt to gain just a little bit more resources from "dead" equipment then it is his choice. Same thing for repair, currently more than 200 is over kill.
Don't necessarily need to be better usage, just more so there is much more reliant on the skill than only few actions. By the way, having to play with other players shouldn't be an annoyance, it is something that players have evolved into that it is just better to make an alt than to ask some player, because making an alt is faster and better and etc. etc. but that wouldn't be the case in a game where you really can't do that and that is something to reach for.
Additionally it's not only about skills being removed, there are some places for skills that could be added when there is some use for them.
So why are talking about this? You think merging it will it a new skill or something?
-
Bring back TAG perk.
Make first aid kits and doctor bags, etc. use charges that are independent of cooldown.
(And give a bonus to the skills.)
That way Doctor and First Aid can remain unchanged in their item-free usage.
-
Lower the cooldown could be a good enough buff for FA. For example, FA at 300% + Medic Perk should be around 20s. The current cooldown of FA is too long, nobody considers it for combat, except "Hinkley experts". And I like the idea of FA be able to help a friend stand up from KO.
More than that and FA will be too powerful and there will be complaints.
-
Lower the cooldown could be a good enough buff for FA. For example, FA at 300% + Medic Perk should be around 20s. The current cooldown of FA is too long, nobody considers it for combat, except "Hinkley experts". And I like the idea of FA be able to help a friend stand up from KO.
More than that and FA will be too powerful and there will be complaints.
If the skill only heals damage, it will never be better than superstims without being overpowered. Even full health per 20 seconds would be worse than superstims that fully heal most builds in few seconds. Furthermore, a build with 300 points spent in FA is largely useless because of so massive investment in one skill.
-
This is a good sugestion, if you, kind developers of the FOnline2238 game, can implement at least a part of this suggestion it would mean a lot for the comunity
-
Science and repair is nothing similar, being a mechanic or a scientist, apples and oranges and no you don't need to cap either of them to use them in game somewhat effectively, disassembling gear is not the only mechanic science is tied to and even then you can science equipment with less than cap and still gain a lot of resources. If someone see it as a necessity to have a 300% science alt to gain just a little bit more resources from "dead" equipment then it is his choice. Same thing for repair, currently more than 200 is over kill.
Because I totally did not said the only purpose of those are to reach certain value. There is no play value tied to it. It just all means you have to create 2 characters if you want to do two parts of the same thing in best possible way.
All those stats and skills are created for singleplayer game anyway, hard to figure out for some...
-
Because I totally did not said the only purpose of those are to reach certain value.
It just all means you have to create 2 characters if you want to do two parts of the same thing in best possible way.
Now that i put it in this order, do you see it?
What is the "best way?" To me that resembles capping a skill, not tagging, but capping.
Be more precise and conditioned, otherwise a character can have both of the skills and current game mechanics allow to be the "best" at both at some extent, that extent witch furthermore i would like to refer as the "gap", it might need some shortening. This has been already done in other projects by simply decreasing the total amount of skill-points possible to invest in a skill, revolving and balancing each skill on a different scale of magnitude where a character can be just simply more effective with both by investing less skill-points, in this case that would be science and repair. Complicated way how to say a character is just as effective with 200% skill as with 300%, that way the character literally can be the best at both.
There is no play value tied to it.
There is, might not be good or enough for you. Each time a quest requires science or repair, disassembling equipment, dungeon requirements etc. etc. it is all play value, something you get out of by playing with those type of skills.
So, when content is added to this game, some sort of play value is added along it and sometimes it does touch the skills science, repair.
Though by all means i don't see how this is in any way related to merging some sort of skills, i just don't see any connection. By merging skills you will not add more play value, just put more emphasis on one skill. If you think they separately doesn't have enough weight on them, then the rational way is just to look at them as they are and just simply attach more game mechanics, twist something so the player doesn't feel all too punished by not investing in science instead of repair and the same thing goes for doctor and first aid, yet necessary to have differences of both because that way it allows more variety of how to specialize and make more choices.
Merging skills is the easy way, though it will not improve or add something new.
-
Best way as the max profit from single thing, if not obvious. And unfortunately, requirements add no play value.
It's no different than quest being available for all, just more annoying.
The value would be there if the quest for example had multiple ways to be completed, and using science was one of those.
-
Best way as the max profit from single thing, if not obvious. And unfortunately, requirements add no play value.
The value would be there if the quest for example had multiple ways to be completed, and using science was one of those.
Requirements add play value as you do profit more if the skill is commonly needed, not just optional and you simply get more out of it by having the certain skill. What you are pointing to, is just simple quest quality, diversity, complexity, call it what you want, that of course ultimately adds more play value as there are more options (if quest has high play value, you get more joy, fun out of it), in that case quest itself brings more to the game, but having those options will not add extra weight on a certain skill - it'll not introduce new mechanics and new something for the skill at all, it will be just as profitable as before. It's still one requirement for science, repair etc. etc. per quest even if it's possible to complete to complete it in many ways.
I'm talking about science, repair in general, what is possible with those particular skills, what game mechanics are tied to them, what you get out of them by having them, the more ways how the skills can be used are added to the game, the more play value comes along with it, as previously explained requirements and necessity also does the trick in a way, maybe not as someone wish to since that is partially a matter of opinion, consensus might be split on whether those skills have their "right amount" of purpose and part in this game at all.
It's no different than quest being available for all, just more annoying.
Here's the thing, i just simply disagree.
For example, force fields in Ares and Sierra Army Depot are a new mechanic as you need to bypass them to continue on with the dungeon, the skill has one more usage and it adds play value, but then again since it's not possible to continue on without repair or science, those are the same requirements as in quests, you just experience the requirement differently.
Tell me is it annoying to need science or repair for you to be able to craft an item?
Everything Avv suggested can be done without merging skills, now tell me why the hell someone needs to merge them? What is this, blindly following some trend?
-
The game would be better if skills capped at 200% instead of 300%. Take sneak for example, at 300% people can still potentially see you at 20 hex. You can't even get one combat skill to 180 and 300 sneak with maximum possible int or sacrificing 2 perks. There just isn't enough sp. Hell even combat skills requiring 180% for the right perks is a waste, my char could have 95% chance to hit with 100% skill but I have to waste another 80% just to get min req for perks.
-
Someone said about merging FA/Doc and Rep/Sci. Its bad imho, but what do you think about making SP put into FA or DOC have an impact on the other skill? Like 2SP spent on Doc gives 1SP on FA or something like that. Its like, you're a doctor so you know how to do first aid, but you're still specialist from healing cripples/weaknesses etc. so you're not THAT effective. Same thing with REP/SCI. You know how things are build - you must know a bit of science, and other way - but if you're only experimental engineer or theoretical engineer you will be not as good as someone specialised in "opposite" field.
I dont know if ratio 2:1 is ok, its just example, idea is important.
Oh, and about Cooldown of FA and DOC - removing it will give you almost unlimited source of exp, it has to be fixed some way (like for ex. some % chance to heal with gaining exp that gives you some CD, otherwise you dont get exp neither CD, or maybe ability to choose "quick fix" or "wise healing":D. first one gives no exp, no CD, less HP, other gives CD but exp and more HP (but dunno how to make it, maybe some kind of hotkeys?))
-
It's pretty stupid that you can be a doctor and not know how to do first aid. Surgery is fine but stitches is impossible?
-
Well shared skill gain looks interesting as well, it could as well give some sense to combat skills as well (like you have pinpoint accuracy with normal rifle, but can't hit a barn with laser?)
As for the XP, there is just a problem that the experience can come from PvP situation, unlike most of other things. But unlike killing things, there are requirements for healing things, you just can't search for encounters to randomly heal things (would require some AI changes in X vs Y encounters to be completely viable) like you shoot them.
It's just the same thing as if you were allowed to get XP from shooting players, there is just not any good alternative making the game work if you disable this way to gain XP. But to be honest it's broken already, and I'm sure there is already some clever way to set up leveling process automatically, if desired.
-
Well shared skill gain looks interesting as well, it could as well give some sense to combat skills as well (like you have pinpoint accuracy with normal rifle, but can't hit a barn with laser?)
Synergy bonus for aiming perhaps. Say average of best 2 of 3 gun skills is assigned if actual skill is lower than that.
Example:
30 EW, 120 SG gives 75 EW for instance (in effect- not shown on CHA screen). There is still unfamiliarity with different guns- it is not just "aim skill".
It's just the same thing as if you were allowed to get XP from shooting players, there is just not any good alternative making the game work if you disable this way to gain XP. But to be honest it's broken already, and I'm sure there is already some clever way to set up leveling process automatically, if desired.
So you just shoot friends/alts over and over?
-
There is no problem in FA skill problem is in SS AP cost. Because you heal 100hp for 3AP and you deal 100-120dmg for 6 AP from Avenger. So SS AP cost should be atleast twice more. Merging these 2 skills ... oh no. This mechanics provides miracles ... healing eyes with empty hands or similiar things because everyone in wastlend is instant surgeon. Doctor req. Medical bag or if you dont have bag you should be able to half heal amr/leg but eyes ? :D same for FA should be able to heal low ammount without any stuff.... or max ammount with Bag.
-
There is no problem in FA skill problem is in SS AP cost. Because you heal 100hp for 3AP and you deal 100-120dmg for 6 AP from Avenger. So SS AP cost should be atleast twice more. Merging these 2 skills ... oh no. This mechanics provides miracles ... healing eyes with empty hands or similiar things because everyone in wastlend is instant surgeon. Doctor req. Medical bag or if you dont have bag you should be able to half heal amr/leg but eyes ? :D same for FA should be able to heal low ammount without any stuff.... or max ammount with Bag.
The point of the game isn't griefing players