fodev.net
Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Fat Man on October 08, 2012, 10:24:26 pm
-
I think super stimpack should take 5 action points and not 3.
First aid requires 5 action points to use, requires some time to regenerate but a super stimpack with bind can give you 100-150 hp click of button 3 action points to use, 3 action points regenerate like nothing in real time. I think these should cost 5 to use in real time, but in turn base don't change.
What is point of first aid anyways wait 1 minute to use requires a lot of skill points takes more action points to use in a fight...
Just don't see the thinking here on this one.
-
ss in combat heals roughly the same damage as a single attack, so if you use them while being shot you can maintain current hp level but not generally gain. It's fine as is.
-
Maybe CD to eat SS, huh? Anyone? Currently it is some candy eating and there is no drawback (maybe only be unconscious and die by health reduction witch is working like poison), first aid is completely scraped due to SS despite it being "free"( well actually it isn't it costs int special points). It is more effective to dump int for more luck witch helps against critical shots.
-
3 second timer is fine.
-
Is or would be?
Stop confusing me. ;D
-
Waiting for action points to use ss is already cooldown
-
Yes, that raises the question if it is enough and is it good for game play when players are focusing you and you survive due to spamming a button.
FA would be more useful if such CD would take place and that is good for game play.
-
IS because at times, sometimes people have 250-280 hp with CA+toughnessx2+pyscho, avenger or RL(even ap) doesn't do it, and only a gatling laser can kill this fucker who is spamming SS. Sometimes it takes 3-4 people to kill this guy spamming SS.
-
I understand that, but currently such timer isn't implemented, so it would be fine you meant. :)
What do you think about flexible system like having CD on bind, but you can eat it without CD by opening window?
-
It is possible to implement such a timer, this timer exists in Goon Haven. This timer does not need to happen, it can require higher AP or such.
-
This timer does not need to happen, it can require higher AP or such.
Different ways of how the CD is increased, player might experience it differently, but the effect is the same.
-
I never get to spam stimpacks. Snipers and rocket launchers always steal my action points and I think this is good. Makes snipers and rocket launchers important in battle
Also 1 hexing a stimpack abuser is effective
And fights are short anyway, just 2 shots and you're dead so stimpacks help lengthen fights which is a good thing
I don't think there's a need to change it
-
We are speaking about tanks and SS. Not your crappy jet builds whom can only survive 2 bursts.
-
Waiting for action points to use ss is already cooldown
Average gun requires 6-7 action points to fire, 5 for small gun burst with BROF but small guns builds aren't really used in PvP except snipers which is 7ap for eye/head/groin.
Even with a double shot build 12ap with 3brd big gunner vs another tank build you do not kill them and between that time to get that third shot off somebody can eat 2 super stims to full health. 3 action points regenerates very quickly its nearly seconds in real time.
I think 5 action points is reasonable or a cool down. Now how many seconds between super stims is debatable, so I think requireing more action points would be better route. Also this is an easy fix than trying to code in a timer for real time. But if they were to do a timer I think 5-10 seconds would be good only in real time. In turn base there isn't an issue with super stim packs.
I was in reno using a grenadier build and it was ridiculous that 1 plasma grenade kept being thrown and a super stim was ate each time I through a plasma grenade. Eventually a guy would run out of super stims to be killed but I still think 3 action points is too low when using with hot key.
Opening a menu and using super stimpack is fine but we have the bind, and I wouldn't want them to get rid of it so I think timer or more ap requirement is best.
I never get to spam stimpacks. Snipers and rocket launchers always steal my action points and I think this is good. Makes snipers and rocket launchers important in battle
Also 1 hexing a stimpack abuser is effective
And fights are short anyway, just 2 shots and you're dead so stimpacks help lengthen fights which is a good thing
I don't think there's a need to change it
One hexing isn't always an option, in a huge 10 vs 10 battle. Plus rocket launchers don't do much damage maybe 100 damage on a good roll first shot on metal armor. You fire 2 rocket launchers at a guy it takes longer to first a 3rd shot and guy could just eat 2 super stims, and run out of view.
Look I use super stimpack hotkey and it makes me survive and I love it but I think for the sakes of better gameplay there should be a timer or a 5 action point requirement. It gets very lame to get into a super stimpack battle.
Also there is now no advantage to use first aid what so ever other than for roleplaying. What is the point of this skill? You can't use it in turn base it requires many special stats like luck and intellegance which could be spent in better things like endurance and agility and it has a cool down even with medic perk that is still 30 seconds to use between each cool down. And 30 seconds is like 250+ skill points. Its only useful at hinkly thats it.
-
I dont think its necessary to alter SS usage. SS dont grow on trees, even if it means they are easy to get, nobody carries 30+ of them.
You might bring into one fight 20 of them and wont have a chance to use one, because of lucky crit, while on the next fight, you regret you didnt bring more of them.
Popping SS one after another serves to interesting feature, when one guy tanks all the damage while others bring DPS. Its one of the very few things, that gives you freedom in your actions (f.e. shall I tank this damage right here ? Or shall I run for cover and mend my wounds there ? Or maybe its better to stand still, hope for luck and help my group do some dmg)
This suggestion brought FA into question. That is, what should be improved, not SS. 2 APs for SS use and even bigger healed numbers (or reduced CD) would be just fine.
-
The impression and my assumption is that many of these guys who make this game aren't going to rework the FA system unless its another wipe but the rate of this game dropping in player numbers who knows if there well be another session. But thats another debate.
Maybe super stims heal for less but use the same amount of action points?
-
We are speaking about tanks and SS. Not your crappy jet builds whom can only survive 2 bursts.
Well that's what a tank is for, taking dmg and surviving. A tank build with all brds is not possible, making them do shitty dmg. It's pretty balanced out right now, I stick to my opinion that there is no need for any change.
-
Well that's what a tank is for, taking dmg and surviving. A tank build with all brds is not possible, making them do shitty dmg. It's pretty balanced out right now, I stick to my opinion that there is no need for any change.
Please go PvP before you jump to direct conclusions. There can be more of these SS-spamming tanks and it is quite unbalanced. There is nothing "tactical" about that, it's just plain retarded. With all the shitty features like this one along with AC, fast relog and shit, this game will die soon I guess. If we want real tanks, how about making FA more useful?
-
Please go PvP before you jump to direct conclusions. There can be more of these SS-spamming tanks and it is quite unbalanced. There is nothing "tactical" about that, it's just plain retarded. With all the shitty features like this one along with AC, fast relog and shit, this game will die soon I guess. If we want real tanks, how about making FA more useful?
Your post is comical. Tank vs. BRD build is very balanced. Tank vs. gatling build is a defeat for tank. Tank vs. critbuild is a defeat for tank. Team of tanks vs. team with snipers and rockets is defeat for tank. The use for tank is as part of a team just like most other builds. You clearly know nothing about PvP other than fighting bluesuits in Reno. There is nothing imbalanced there.
P.S. LOL at your FA suggestion.
-
Irrelevant what build counters who.
It's about general principle when players survive by spamming a button, tanks survive more punishment as it is and it been like that always with no or with SS bind, it is not the button that makes them tough and it doesn't give them the roll to be tanks, but the perks they have took and choices made. SS spamming makes less difference of an actual "tough" character because you heal at twice the rate you are receiving damage by some rough estimations if just 1 player is attacking in a picture perfect situation 1 attack dealing 100 damage(though in practice it is a lot less on average, means you heal more than twice as fast).
Now quite often it really does boil down to who has more to spam, from experience. (just observation from looting opponent teams, no offense, when looting i have noticed that i personally carry like twice 1.5x? ;D as more SS than the usual player out there, starting with a minimum of 8, because hey why not? I can spam a button.)
SS grow in tree's when it comes to availability, players farm and sell it a lot and it isn't essentially hard to obtain them, in the past 2-3 weeks i have bought more than 1500 SS and could buy more if that would be needed, it is currently as a requirement to make better builds and that way excluding FA out of the picture completely leading to some dull and simple build choices to always dump the stat called INT.
-
It's about general principle when players survive by spamming a button
What about killing players by spamming a button? A brd or gatling burster needs to shoot 2 ranged bursts at 200hp guy to kill him and doing this isn't particularly hard. If the victim can't do quick reflex-stim he will die.
-
That is concerning build choices and consequences witch works fine by itself, if a guy with 200 HP gets killed by Gatling that means it's not the fault that he can't or couldn't spam a button, but the problem of wearing a combat armor instead of Tesla or MAmk2/Having less HP drawback etc. etc.
Think about where the balance should lie, think about if it is right that you want it to revolve around spamming a button and use that as an argument? The outcomes should rely more on the build choices, to have a bigger impact.
More food for thought process, sure it is good that the player can use reflexes to counter a build flaw, but if he is constantly being attacked my multiple persons it becomes just a spam-fest and by normal sense he should be already dead.
Nothing here suggested will prevent the player to make a quick decision to use a SS by activating a bind, but will avoid the mindless situation of spamming them and FA will have a real usage and some kind of advantage for characters with it. Currently using first aid is what, five action points to an average of 150 FA witch is quite random even with high luck. It's just in every way less effective than SS right now including the fact that FA requires for the character to sacrifice some survivability against critical shots due to lack of luck by dumping the rest into INT.
Sometimes i feel this community doesn't know whats best for them. One guy from my faction convinced me of that.
What about killing players by spamming a button?
Fonline doesn't have the most complicated combat system, but it shouldn't be like that in all aspects of combat and if there is some space for improvement for players to think and make more decisions than usual even if that is on the level of build choices, why not?
I ain't arguing here for no good reason and the reason is not for 2238 developers to implement it. :) It is useful to know what players think.
-
Nothing force players to shoot at eyes/groin only. Although there are (was) only a few "tank" char who took iron grip and tree trunk legs which means that some good limb breaking can get them out of the way. Also nothing is funnier when you shoot out the weapons from the enemy hand or better yet break his arm too and he runs next to you hitting you with fist :)
Before someone ask yeah I don't pvp no time for it nowdays... still limb breaking is a working tactic.
-
... still limb breaking is a working tactic.
More or less it is and most importantly it should be a solid viable strategy to use them in certain situations, leg shots are unused in current system (too less chance, example for actual use, clear field against opponent, you can either try to hit him in eyes and hope for a KO and risk him running away due to a lower chance to do so, or you can choose a more reliable outcome to shoot legs and have a better chance of decreasing his ability to change position and advance on him, or the guy is standing near a corner where crippling a leg won't do much, but KO is the only way how to secure a possible kill) . Tree Trunk legs and Iron Grip is unused also due to Man of Steel being more universal and stonewall granting protection against far more worse effects to drop a weapon or cripple an arm.
Though don't see any of that having a connection to SS bind advantage witch currently is in place.
Kinda off-topic. :)
-
Well after reading through the topic I though the main reason for this suggestion was to counter these chars from spamming themselves with stimps so they won't be problem in the fight, but yeah I gone a bit off-topic.
-
I agree that devouring superstims in the dozens while being shot by 3 guys is stupid, but that's not the only way to use them. Superstim bind gives a new option to react to random situations. It holds a micromanagement value because blindly spamming them isn't something that automatically saves you in every situation. You can also use them smartly. Block enemy shots, conserve your ap, try to onehex. Use them for escape while being chased by multiple enemies.
There could be some sort of overdose limit which means you can't take more than 3 in say 5 seconds. Wouldn't hurt the smart users but spammers yes.
In addition superstims are like food, everyone needs them. That's good in terms of trade, which nobody does however ;). Plus every build can use them, so that you don't have to make a build for every situation.
What's more: if superstims did take more AP it would be good gameplay if shooting someone meant that he has to take cover and heal himself. But many maps don't have any cover withing the range of 50 hex. So if avenger bg spawns behind you FE. in bh south side, you'd be always dead if you couldn't use superstims to block his bursts. There simply isn't enough cover.
I think I'll make a thread about fa.
-
The knock down, knock out is kind of relevant as it is a counter measure. But these things rely on "real life luck". It isn't guarenteed every shot will do that cripling affect.
I made this suggestion because I don't think it makes for interesting game play to have some guy button mash for 100-140 hp in 1 second over and over. (I forget the exact HP gain with super stims I think its around this). The reason why I suggest 5 action points is because I think it would be better if there is a bigger delay, in seconds, to wait for 5 action points as opposed to 3.
I think this also takes a little more thought than buttom mashing. It is at the point where people get hit once for 80 damage then use a super stim, I think it makes it more interesting gameplay if players take a second to think about about their super stim usage.
Like I say I use this feature alot on full DT/DR big gunner tank it is nice feature it helps me survive many fights. But at same time it just seems a bit ridiculous that you can use super stims so quick from 0-3 ap. Its also ridiculous to keep spamming the bind button over and over when you are down to 0 action points and gain full health in roughly 1-3 seconds depending on build.
Basically I think its just strange balance that attacks take 5-8 action points to regenerate but to heal self for 100+ hp it takes 3 action points which is practically 1 second. Takes 6 or 7 ap to do 50-140 damage with a burster but in that time you can heal ~300hp.
Ok so plasma grenades use 3ap, super stimpack uses 3 ap. Super stim pack is faster in this regards because there is no delay in the animation.
Ok so yes the counter measures:
1 hexing: It isn't always wise to rush at a group of players trying to run up and one hex them when there is there 35-50 hexes between you and a group of players. But its viable solution if you are in close quarter fight
Crippling: Weapon drops arm cripples are annoying but this doesn't prevent a player from using a super stim pack.
Knock out knock downs: This is good solution but relies on luck with targeted shot builds.
Rocket launcher: It doesn't do enough damage to kill in 2 shots unless you are playing with a group of players who are very focused on shooting the same target. A single rocketeer isn't going to kill average PvP build. And a player can once agian use 3 super stim packs before you get 4+ shots off to kill them. 4 shots from rocket launcher that is very lucky if not impossible if you roll for its high end damage 4 times in a row on a full geared target with full hp. Also I think being hit by a rocket is -3 ap, you get shot twice by those 2 shot RL builds that is -6ap, target has 10 ap there goes a stimpack, only has 6ap (All pvp builds have more than 6 ap because its completely fucking stupid to take 2 agility)
Grenades: Lowest range weapon in game before melee, the super stim pack can be used faster because there is no delay in a weapon animation in regards to plasma grenades. Frag grenades does knock down but super stim pack can be used before 4 action points regenerate.
-edit-
I hope this all makes sense what I'm writing it is very late where I live when I wrote this.
-
There is a delay, you do the leaning forward and fiddling animation. Even my tank build that has all defensive perks and max hp can't survive long spamming ss if I'm under attack. Offense is way stronger than defense in this game.
-
The animation delay is 1 second, if you did read what i wrote, you wouldn't write something so blunt as " Offense being stronger than defense. " and if you just stopped for a second and thought about how much time it takes to eat SS and how much time it does take to do an attack.
2+2=4
It is that simple to understand.
-
SS are good like that, they takes less points than a FA, but they give less HP than a high skilled FA
-
How about if thieves get kicked out of NPC faction if they are caught stealing?
Might help a bit.
-
why not just remove stealing completely since it will have no point?
-
why not just remove stealing completely since it will have no point?
Block people in, rob them.