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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: racoon on August 01, 2012, 11:10:43 pm

Title: Buff companions
Post by: racoon on August 01, 2012, 11:10:43 pm
Idea is to buff companions because now they're shit. not even worth to "catch". bg with 5 ap? laser with 1 pe? melee with 1 en and 80hp? specials shouldnt be total randomness because even melee mercenary for 100 caps is way more superior in battle than those companions. also give them perks and skill increasing each lvl.
Title: Re: Buff companions
Post by: Michaelh139 on August 01, 2012, 11:11:54 pm
here here!
Title: Re: Buff companions
Post by: S.T.A.L.K.E.R on August 01, 2012, 11:24:30 pm
make them respawn faster too

Edit: also, please take away throw travelers, they dont do nothing if they are too far from the enemy
Title: Re: Buff companions
Post by: Malice Song on August 02, 2012, 12:05:27 am
Idea is to buff companions because now they're shit. not even worth to "catch". bg with 5 ap? laser with 1 pe? melee with 1 en and 80hp? specials shouldnt be total randomness because even melee mercenary for 100 caps is way more superior in battle than those companions. also give them perks and skill increasing each lvl.

Actually BG companions with 5 AP are kind of amusing. It comes with the nice implied narrative that not everyone in the wastes is the Chosen One (as we so often preach) and sometimes ambitions are just bigger than capability. I will grant, though, that it would be a lot funnier, if you didn't have to wait for ages for one of them to bloody show up.

I do believe, however, that they're intended to be weaker than mercs (or at least should be). Mercs are basically geared for combat only, while comps come with a few other perks to compensate. And as far as melee is concerned, truth be told, mercs are on the cheap side to begin with, as far as caps and pp are concerned.

As far as I am concerned their randomness seems perfectly fine to me on paper and not every one of them needs to be a beast in combat, on the contrary, having flaws adds to the charme and you still can get outstandingly good comps. The problem is the ratio of their effectiveness and the difficulty to find one. In a vacuum it's perfectly fine to find a 1 EN melee companion, in reality though you sometimes have to wait more than a week to find a comp with the proficiency you're looking for, especially without a network of other players who can give you a heads up, and under those circumstances, yes, encountering a less than optimal comp, to put it mildly, can be annoying to say the least.

I'd be more in favor of upping the frequency of encountering them, for example making them turn up in encounters, than of turning them into mercs with swappable armor.

make them respawn faster too
Also this. Very much this.
Title: Re: Buff companions
Post by: Roachor on August 02, 2012, 12:09:40 am
50 caps gets me an unarmed mutie with 450 hp that is infinitely more useful than all but the luckiest companions
Title: Re: Buff companions
Post by: S.T.A.L.K.E.R on August 02, 2012, 03:34:13 am
50 caps gets me an unarmed mutie with 450 hp that is infinitely more useful than all but the luckiest companions
And what happens when  that mutie dies? Caps down the drain
Title: Re: Buff companions
Post by: Malice Song on August 02, 2012, 03:50:47 am
I think you have 50 caps to spare for a new one.

The whole comparison doesn't really hold up, though. Melee mutant might be the single best investment in the game considering that you get a tank that can farm tons of PvE encs without the need for ammo, draws enemy fire from you, gets rid of traps around lockers, provides easy leveling for zero kill builds and doesn't even have a significant downside in TB (besides the tedium of having to play TB) for 14 caps a day. I'm not sure if there's anything in the game that comes even remotely close in terms of ROI. I hate to be the one that brings it up, but it seems more of a case of them being to good than comps being too weak.
Title: Re: Buff companions
Post by: DocAN. on August 02, 2012, 09:28:29 am
Just spent some time to find good companions, then some more time to lvlup them. My best Companion have 328 HP, he can shoot almost 2 times in a row with m60 and can carry more then scout. Got few more like this one but with 260+ HP (EW/Melee).
So stop crying and take some time with companions. 
Title: Re: Buff companions
Post by: racoon on August 02, 2012, 12:01:43 pm
almost 2 times? max companion's ap is 10. 2 shots is 14.
Title: Re: Buff companions
Post by: McLooter on August 02, 2012, 12:23:12 pm
I think they can have perks, brof included.
Title: Re: Buff companions
Post by: Sarakin on August 02, 2012, 12:34:28 pm
If unarmed muties are sooo good, why dont we see them anywhere.
Title: Re: Buff companions
Post by: Malice Song on August 02, 2012, 01:07:45 pm
If unarmed muties are sooo good, why dont we see them anywhere.

Simple, really.
As far as I know, they seem to be a joke in RT PvP due to their speed disadvantage. In the aspects they excell at a lot of approaches are valid. I reckon no one here exactly needs a strategy guide to farm geckos, raiders, etc, but that doesn't change the fact that, unless you play a HtH build yourself, melee mutants are in all likelyhood the most economic way to go about it. Also I've talked to a few people who got their info from the wiki and didn't even know that melee mutants are an affordable option, thinking they'd cost them 3k instead of 50 caps.

Also I am not exactly sure yet how well they mix with other NPCs. Ideally you want your enemy to target the 500 HP tank with good resistances, but I think the enemy tends to target the first opponent to land a hit on him, which due to their speed are rarely the mutants. Therefore ideally you want only melee mutants to play to their strengths, but that locks you into 210 or 280 pp, if you don't want to waste any, however, most likely pp ammounts (unless going all out on a specialist) would be 230 and 240 (since that's where the perks are sitting).

As mentioned, they are that good, but in practical applications other considerations can take priority. Generally followers are a good bit more nuanced than "he has high HP, so he's good" and melee mutants might not be the best choice for every player in every situation, far from it actually. Considering their areas of expertise and their upkeep, they're outstanding, though.

My best Companion have 328 HP, he can shoot almost 2 times in a row with m60
I'd be interested how that works out for you. I tried burst weapons on comps before, but they still fired from their preferred engagement range instead of running in to hex. I'd have assumed the most valid choice for a good BG comp to be launchers, so I am slightly surprised.
Title: Re: Buff companions
Post by: Sarakin on August 02, 2012, 01:58:55 pm
I wasnt expecting an answer, of course they are useless, thats why they cost only 50, because no one buys them.
Title: Re: Buff companions
Post by: racoon on August 02, 2012, 03:46:51 pm
they are useful for pve. 50 caps mutant is tougher than companion in ca. also companions dont get any perks and traits. all their special is randomized including charisma and intelligence which they dont need.
Title: Re: Buff companions
Post by: JovankaB on August 02, 2012, 04:04:04 pm
Considering their cost they are great for non-PvP purposes.

I think they are cheap because people don't have to be afraid that someone else
will buy them, because they are not effective against players. So there is little
incentive to buy out the unarmed mutants just because they are cheap.
Title: Re: Buff companions
Post by: Malice Song on August 02, 2012, 08:02:36 pm
I wasnt expecting an answer, of course they are useless, thats why they cost only 50, because no one buys them.

Would make a lot of sense, if it made sense.
Title: Re: Buff companions
Post by: Sarakin on August 02, 2012, 08:13:53 pm
The more you buy particular merc, the higher the price goes. Thought you know the basics..

50 caps just says it all, how sought-after they are
Title: Re: Buff companions
Post by: TKs-KaBoom on August 02, 2012, 08:25:53 pm
um, while on the subject, dogs need a buff, they are well rather pathetic....   Funny wasteland fact they cost progressively higher the more dogs you buy, the first is 50 the next 70 then (...)  then 140?   Whats wrong with this for a critter with 120hp's that has no resistance and does 1-3 damage?
Title: Re: Buff companions
Post by: Cyber Jesus on August 02, 2012, 08:42:40 pm
um, while on the subject, dogs need a buff, they are well rather pathetic....   Funny wasteland fact they cost progressively higher the more dogs you buy, the first is 50 the next 70 then (...)  then 140?   Whats wrong with this for a critter with 120hp's that has no resistance and does 1-3 damage?

dogs are for roleplayers who stand next to a barrel in NCR all day
Title: Re: Buff companions
Post by: Roachor on August 03, 2012, 02:29:31 am
Dogs are for chars with outdoor untagged. 60 caps gets you 120 outdoor and if set to flee never dies. The cost for mercs goes up temporarily. Back when ncr guards bursted I'd was thousands of caps on mercs to draw fire and kill people for fun. If you wait an hour the prices go back down. It costs 50 for muties because that's the base price, there isn't a constant stream of people going to bh to buy them.
Title: Re: Buff companions
Post by: naossano on August 04, 2012, 10:58:14 am
If i am not wrong, they are cheaper but cost more pp than human mercenaries. So you could have less muties than humans.
If prefer cover more ground, have more AP, and lose less time to reach the ennemies. (pvp or PVE)
Title: Re: Buff companions
Post by: Roachor on August 04, 2012, 07:30:50 pm
unarmed muties cost 70 pp, only useful in pve