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Title: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Wipe on July 19, 2012, 07:46:11 pm
FIXES:
- Guards inside the Salvatore's Bar and the Shark Club will protect the player characters.
- Patched up holes in some maps.
- Treasure Hunter perk no longer lowers ammount of items.
- Mega Power Fist and Power Servos appear in Fixboy.
- Fixed various minor dialog errors.
- Brahmin hides no longer disappear after placing them in brahmin inventory.
- Town Control timer / area check bug is fixed.
- Brahmin no longer get stuck on the pen entrance if they are outside the pen.
- Fixed exploit allowing to loot critters that shouldn't be lootable.
- Supermutants in the gunrunner caravan quest no longer drop weapons due to criticals.
- NCR Residence area is now accessible via Town/World-button on the worldmap.
- Rats in Vault 15 no longer speak like a human in combat.
- Jet and Kamikaze decrease Damage Resistance properly.
- Quick Recovery perk should work now.
- Cumulative crafting timeout (1 hour)
- Bug in Mantis dialog that made the question to get Explorer perk unavailable in some case.

FEATURES:
- Raiding Supermutants have been spotted at the Ares rocket silo.

CHANGES (WIP):
- Added consequences for killing brahmin in the Westin quest. The brahmin also protect each other.
- Montag gives a quest tip if a player confuses town well with the water pump.
- After being fed, Shren won't be hungry for some time. Reward increased to 50xp.
- When using, waterpipes fill all empty waterbags in the inventory as the default action.
- NPC doctors prices depend on what needs healing.
- Added a dialog option to ask companions about their weapon preferences before taking them.
- Changed order of items in Fixboy: Materials appear on top, followed by armors, ammo and weapons.
- Railway Gang thugs will remember characters who attacked them.
- Added blueprints to loot container in the Glow.
- Various improvements with brahmin that should result in better poo distribution inside the pens.
- Slightly adjusted critical hit tables.
- More recognizable water tiles in New Reno sewers.
- NPC don't loot armed explosives anymore. NPC looter will also shout warning about the bomb and all NPCs in close distance will move away.

RECOMMENDATIONS:
- if client will crash on start, removing current game cache file should help
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: chocolate_chip_cookies on July 19, 2012, 07:48:44 pm
Update!  :)
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: falloutdude on July 19, 2012, 07:49:10 pm
why you no fix ac!
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: DeputyDope on July 19, 2012, 07:53:16 pm
no high AC/jinxed fix? me sad.

good update.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Mike Crosser on July 19, 2012, 07:54:28 pm
The rats finally decided to shut up?
Nice one. :)
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Uftak on July 19, 2012, 07:56:04 pm
Seems it's the end of HH power :|
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: avv on July 19, 2012, 08:02:45 pm
Good fixes.

What's that with the crafting cd? We have to make crafting alts again? Wasn't the whole idea of removing cooldowns to prevent alts and cheating?

I was too expecting ac fix and in addition a change to heavy handed.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: jacky. on July 19, 2012, 08:06:43 pm
and what about BA and EA? can we get them? and i heard aimed shots are shit now because of broken crit table
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Mike Crosser on July 19, 2012, 08:10:56 pm
and what about BA and EA? can we get them? 
And NCRRA should be added.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Mrockatansky on July 19, 2012, 08:12:11 pm
Crafting CD is outrage. Beside that good work.

Seriously Dev's wai u break my crafting? Doing Reputationquest is enough cooldown imho.
Where is the factionbase adv. workbench that was promised?
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: T-888 on July 19, 2012, 08:15:45 pm
Whoah, whoah *T-888 holds on to something steady* ... awesome, love most of the changes. Now the game seems to be much more civilized again and each update even better. :)

- NPC don't loot armed explosives anymore. NPC looter will also shout warning about the bomb and all NPCs in close distance will move away.

Muhahhah, nice one. :) Thanks jovanka.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Crazy on July 19, 2012, 08:18:23 pm
and what about BA and EA? can we get them?

Solar said we would be able farm them and that armor protection wouldn't drop with deterioration until 50%. Not just yet it seems.
It would be cool if those armors appeared in glow alongside with regular CAs.

and i heard aimed shots are shit now because of broken crit table
Well they modified crit tables it seems, dunno how much it will affect snipers and crit bursts though.

Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: BenKain on July 19, 2012, 08:19:33 pm
Well it looks like we crafters are getting the extremely short end of the stick yet again. You guys do realize this completely destroys some peoples play styles. There is also no way to continue with my faction because of this! I can make one minigun, then I have to be done for the day! So whats the reasoning behind this? We want ten-thousand alts for every crafter again? Cooldowns are why I didn't play last session.

So it looks like this game is only accessible to PvPers once again. Thanks...
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Adestan on July 19, 2012, 08:27:23 pm
Finally treasure hunter perk :) ,but the question is: will it improve the chance of bp loot and other stuff, or it stays the same just the amount is fixed? ;)
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: DeputyDope on July 19, 2012, 08:28:29 pm
i can't start the game, i get a crash log.

i removed the cache files, and also ran the updater, still crashes.

LATER EDIT: it works, it works. i juts had to run the updater. posted this because some people told me the game was working for them without any update which i found weird.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: jacky. on July 19, 2012, 08:31:03 pm
benkain who cares about crafting spears or some ma mk2? ;D
when i was playing i had tons of stuff over 150 new ca 150 new ma mk2 200 ca helmets all 100% and over 60 unit of each 3rd lvl weapon (12gausses and 700 2mm) and 100ts of each kind of drug and it was over 4months ago...so u should have more than me when u are pro crafter. sorry but unlimited crafting was exploit and when i crafted once 120 ca helmets i had over 2-3days cd ;]
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Eternauta on July 19, 2012, 08:35:21 pm
when i played

:D

Anyway, thanks devs for this update!
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Wipe on July 19, 2012, 08:36:51 pm
Files in updater came with little delay, sorry for that.

EDIT: Update again (no matter, updater or http) if you have files older than this message edit time.
 
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: BenKain on July 19, 2012, 08:40:31 pm
benkain who cares about crafting spears or some ma mk2? ;D

I do. Its how I play. Its how I run my faction. Its how I have fun. But I guess it doesn't matter. On to the next game for me. Its just kinda sad that the devs don't seem to want anything but apes left on the server. So be it...
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: jacky. on July 19, 2012, 08:59:49 pm
you had ur time when pvp couldnt play because of broken tc and broken armors penalty.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Malice Song on July 19, 2012, 09:16:30 pm
Thanks, looks like a great one as far as I can tell.

should result in better poo distribution inside the pens.
Priceless.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Rascal on July 19, 2012, 09:21:45 pm
any actual download source for recent files ?

updater isnt working for me
classic faction.zip freeze issue
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Wipe on July 19, 2012, 09:30:27 pm
any actual download source for recent files ?

updater isnt working for me
classic faction.zip freeze issue

Check this one (http://fodev.net/forum/index.php/topic,24655.msg207077.html#msg207077).
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: likeyoucare on July 19, 2012, 09:34:29 pm
Some jet junkies here? How does it works now?

EDIT: nvm, misunderstand
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: greenthumb on July 19, 2012, 11:27:32 pm
i think cooldown for crafting is not very good idea, crafting alredy requires big portion of edurance, you have to mine materials then melt into other resources, which are two operations incudling risk, if you will craft some hi tier gear for frend or faction. you will be not able to stay in unguarded locations with advanced workbench for long,

Players who prefer to play non violent PVE way will be sick of this, i used to farm materials for few days and after this i have been crafting for another few whiles, now players are forced to skip between activities, which encourages to use more alt, dual logs and so.

Thanks for another think, devs.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Wind_Drift on July 20, 2012, 12:54:35 am
FIXES:
- Treasure Hunter perk no longer lowers ammount of items.

- Mega Power Fist and Power Servos appear in Fixboy.
- Added a dialog option to ask companions about their weapon preferences before taking them.
- Added blueprints to loot container in the Glow.
- Slightly adjusted critical hit tables.

Most excellent.  Specifically the items in bold.

Quote
- Rats in Vault 15 no longer speak like a human in combat.
Too bad, I found it amusing.

Quote
- Various improvements with brahmin that should result in better poo distribution inside the pens.

lol


I also agree that the crafting timeout... sucks.  Some people like to fuck with and poke fun at crafters, because they're crafters.  I personally think that's a retarded position to have.  It has no effect on everyone else, whatsoever.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: FrankenStone on July 20, 2012, 01:02:50 am
yeah great update , but its greater to see that things are going in the right direction with dev team , new ideas like bug tracker and so on , u must be motivated somehow :D
otherwise theres only one thing i dont like and thats the crafting thing , like green said it was almost perfect cooldown isnt cool it just only bring more alts and bp searchers on the row and thats not cool the way it was before update was perfect . i can see the idea behind it , u think that then will be fewer high tier stuff ingame but i say hardcore crafters will do make many alts and thats lame
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Wiktor_pl on July 20, 2012, 01:16:13 am
Everything seems cool for me, but I have to admit that crafting cooldown cap is bad idea. I'm not playing often lately so I decided to play rather as loner - and i like to have only 1 char at the time cause i consider this game as MMO(ROLE PLAY)G anyway (even though its not Massively lately:D). It was pretty cool to craft various stuff for myself or for sell - now its gone, actually, big possibility to get some RP. I was about to develop myself as trader in Gorgon Enterprises. Now economy will be based only on hunts. Sad and wrong imo, cause gathering materials is enough efficient for crafters.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Ox-Skull on July 20, 2012, 01:40:39 am
updated game, through updater, seemed to go off without a hitch.

Now Fonline.exe crashes evrytime i try to start it. Comes up with error report.

Anyhelp?


Removed cache file, ran updater agian, still crashing.

EDIT:Fixed.
 
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: TKs-KaBoom on July 20, 2012, 02:43:26 am
Oh ffs let the crafters fucking craft!  first you have to grind out horrible bps, then mine shitless.  Go to an ADv work bench make hq mats.  Then finallly make your fucking goofy gear....   I say there is enough monotony in the whole process to begin with, now you need an army of alts?  Fucking dumb.  Not just dumb, fucking dumb....
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Dendito on July 20, 2012, 03:08:36 am
terrible update for crafters... the bps and stuff are ok but i was kind of hoping that the next crafting related update adds an adv workbench in some bases or something like that, not make crafting even harder
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: X_Treme on July 20, 2012, 03:14:51 am
for me its ok, i can do 40 ma with out limit O.o that for me was stupid
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Gimper on July 20, 2012, 03:19:00 am
cant even launch!!! stuck in loading screen. and i agree with dendito, MORE ADV. BENCHES
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: S.T.A.L.K.E.R on July 20, 2012, 03:25:42 am
cant even launch!!! stuck in loading screen. and i agree with dendito, MORE ADV. BENCHES
did you delete chace folder?
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Gimper on July 20, 2012, 03:32:23 am
did you delete chace folder?
didnt work. this update was garbage....
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: steve s. on July 20, 2012, 03:35:02 am
uh the rats in v15 still talk. I went to test it and they continued to speak like humans. I've grown so used to them talking I decided to just say that they were created by some evil experiment that happened in vault 15.

also my condolences go out to all the crafters who will now have to make a clone army of themselves in order to continue their line of work.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: S.T.A.L.K.E.R on July 20, 2012, 04:07:57 am
didnt work. this update was garbage....
well, what I did was delete chace folder, then updated again, then it downloaded something and it worked for me
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Ox-Skull on July 20, 2012, 04:12:31 am
The road of the crafter.

1.Travel to Redding,BH or Gecko.
2.Deal with possible threats. NPC and player alike.
3.Mine resources.
4.Haul arse outta there.
5.Long journey to gunrunners filled with peril. or preferred ADV WB.
6.process resoruces at ADV WB. Oh shit rep is too low.
Im not sure what the CD for a metal mk2 is. but id like to be able to craft at least 7 of them for the danger involved in making them.

I have 2 ideas, one is, Gunrunner access to ADV WB still gained in same manner but can only be lost through death and individually lowered cooldowns for craftables.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: TKs-KaBoom on July 20, 2012, 05:28:53 am
terrible update for crafters... the bps and stuff are ok but i was kind of hoping that the next crafting related update adds an adv workbench in some bases or something like that, not make crafting even harder

I don't really like the idea of adv workbenches in bases, uh thats why they are located in scary places in the first place, it's to "encourage" crafters to leave the saftey of their little safe bases.  I look at 2238 as a food chain, with crafters as "prey".  I like knowing that there are shitty crafter alts wandering around the WM in a leather jacket holding a hunting rifle with some goodies on them. 
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Xisingr Will on July 20, 2012, 08:57:10 am
Better poo distribution = Hundreds of glitched shit piling all over the brahmin pens? lol....you cant even shovel them it says the normal dialogue that it usually does when you shovel it and than it says "That does nothing" and you get no xp/caps.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Slick on July 20, 2012, 09:02:22 am
Crafting in bases is for pussies real men craft at mariposa!

Well I think the crafting timer is a good balance, it seems a little late in the game the damage has already been done with carpets OH THOSE EVIL CARPETS OF GEAR! I think the cool down is not bad because now its not as easy to supply 10 billion world map alts. But at this point and for how long this session has been going on the damage is already done seems pointless to change it this late in the game.

I don't know if its just me but too many dramatic changes is starting to ruin this. You get get used to something and then it gets changed 2 weeks later and you have to remake characters and then adjust to the changes only to be changed agian! I don't know who they are listening to or what suggestions they read but it seems not be anything written on this forum or irc.

But I mean come on the one hour cool down isn't bad we had to wait 20 minutes between each mine trip and had the same timer last wipe, at least you can fast log and go level a new character or go do something else between crafting trips. I mean can you really bitch when considering last wipe it was one combat armor per hour then another hour to convert to it brotherhood armor? Anybody remember this before they changed it, 5 hq alloys per cool down, required 10 to craft, and the another 10  of each to convert to advanced hq alloys, at least its not back to that agian. Carpets of crafted gear is over rated anyways.

Better poo distribution = Hundreds of glitched shit piling all over the brahmin pens? lol....you cant even shovel them it says the normal dialogue that it usually does when you shovel it and than it says "That does nothing" and you get no xp/caps.

Well I think the shit has hit the fan and they did this for shitz and gigglez.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: JovankaB on July 20, 2012, 09:33:36 am
Better poo distribution = Hundreds of glitched shit piling all over the brahmin pens? lol....you cant even shovel them it says the normal dialogue that it usually does when you shovel it and than it says "That does nothing" and you get no xp/caps.

http://dev.fonline2238.net/trac.wsgi/ticket/58#comment:1

Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Tomowolf on July 20, 2012, 09:36:22 am
Crafting CD, ... ;_; dissapointed that much :-(.

Wat about Klamant raths which speak?
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: manero on July 20, 2012, 09:56:04 am
CHANGES (WIP):
- Slightly adjusted critical hit tables.

What does it mean in practice?
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: JovankaB on July 20, 2012, 10:03:33 am
What does it mean in practice?

Slightly lowered damage multipliers for non-aimed criticals.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: manero on July 20, 2012, 10:07:10 am
Slightly lowered damage multipliers for non-aimed criticals.

Ok it's nice but can you show critical table? Nothing bad will happen and players will be happy  :)
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Castony on July 20, 2012, 10:09:18 am
- When using, waterpipes fill all empty waterbags in the inventory as the default action.
Could you do that with mines, please?

If you want to keep miners at mines for some time - add some micro-cooldown with every ore gathered. "Click on a rock with having a hammer in inventory and wait for 3 seconds to collect an ore" is much better then "aim the rock - click and hold - open menu - aim and chose the right item - click on it - find a hammer in inventory - move a mouse to it - click on it, repeat for 100 times and get all your nerves gone".

- Cumulative crafting timeout (1 hour)

The most terrible idea you could think of. Crafters already had a lot of headache with all that mining, blueprints collecting and going to dangerous places to finally make some equipment. And you just killed the profession. I personally don't want to craft anymore. I'll better make some alt and start bluesuits killing to have fun. Seems like it's right what you want gameplay on server to be like.

Most funny thing is the whole update except this single fix would be great.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: JovankaB on July 20, 2012, 10:13:49 am
Ok it's nice but can you show critical table? Nothing bad will happen and players will be happy  :)

I can't.

Also I'm not sure if the last tweak really works against players, there seems to be a bug in table so the change is only for human NPCs. But if it doesn't it should be fixed on next update I suppose.

NVM, it looks like it works against players.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Mayck on July 20, 2012, 10:32:02 am
Also I'm not sure if the last tweak really works against players, there seems to be a bug in table so the change is only for human NPCs.
The last tweak works with players too. Don't listen to her, she is trying to confuse you!  ;)
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Slick on July 20, 2012, 11:21:08 am
What is sligthly lowered? So if we do a luck roll for a 100 the mulitplier is?
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: JovankaB on July 20, 2012, 11:26:00 am
What is sligthly lowered? So if we do a luck roll for a 100 the mulitplier is?

Without going into technical details, if you do a critical shot on a human and you didn't aim any body part, the damage will be slightly lower now than before (for example damage*3 not damage*4).
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Slick on July 20, 2012, 11:33:39 am
Without going into technical details, if you do a critical shot on a human and you didn't aim any body part, the damage will be slightly lower now than before (for example damage*3 not damage*4).

So it would be x3 damage with better critical, and x2 would be max without it?

So if we get a luck roll around 80-100 its *2 and if we have better critical and lets say it rolls for 120 its *3 on torso vs human? A crit table would be very nice, I do not see the reason to hide such information?
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: manero on July 20, 2012, 11:34:45 am
Without going into technical details...

Why not? Jovi please, It's really necessary. Make us happy.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: jacky. on July 20, 2012, 11:48:04 am
she/he said no
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: EnergyForYou on July 20, 2012, 11:58:34 am
By the way. How its situation with blueprints in Glow? We opened every locker/box and didn't find any of them.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: McLooter on July 20, 2012, 12:05:37 pm
By the way. How its situation with blueprints in Glow? We opened every locker/box and didn't find any of them.

Ares Rocket Silo is better it seems, I believe my friends found CA and 2 CA helmet BP there.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: jacky. on July 20, 2012, 12:21:23 pm
lame i want ba, ea bps not shity usless ca. if devs dont want to give them they should let us craft ca mk2. it isnt nothing special but much better than crappy ca
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: AtomicWrangler on July 20, 2012, 12:29:12 pm
Thank you for update...but seriously...what is your problem with crafters?!
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: EnergyForYou on July 20, 2012, 12:33:29 pm
I think its really too low timeout.I would prefer at least 2 hours timeout.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: manero on July 20, 2012, 12:36:16 pm
They nerfed crafters lol  ;D To be honest... There was only one good crafting system and it was 2nd season system.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: likeyoucare on July 20, 2012, 01:03:21 pm
Oh ffs let the crafters fucking craft!  first you have to grind out horrible bps, then mine shitless.  Go to an ADv work bench make hq mats.  Then finallly make your fucking goofy gear....   I say there is enough monotony in the whole process to begin with, now you need an army of alts?  Fucking dumb.  Not just dumb, fucking dumb....

signed
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Bartosz on July 20, 2012, 01:04:27 pm
They nerfed crafters lol  ;D To be honest... There was only one good crafting system and it was 2nd season system.

Damn those seasons X this, season X that.. I do not even remember which one was what:P

Care to recall what you've got in mind?
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: manero on July 20, 2012, 01:19:17 pm
Care to recall what you've got in mind?

Ofc.

Only basic stuff craftable, basic armors craftable(from jackets to metal armor mk2), basic weapons craftable(sniper rifles, avangers, lsw's, gatlings(?) only farmable, sniper rifles in caves).

You could dig minerals/ore anywhere on map. There was no CD for that. You could dig as much as you could. The limit was your carry weight.

There was almost no CD for crafting. It was something between few seconds and few minutes  ;)

Simple and satisfactory.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: EnergyForYou on July 20, 2012, 01:22:28 pm
Yess. I remember also those times when you put caravan into encounter and dig lots of ores. Those times I think were the best times!
In this era I started to play FOnline.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: LeMark on July 20, 2012, 01:25:52 pm
They nerfed crafters lol  ;D To be honest... There was only one good crafting system and it was 2nd season system.

IMO crafting in all games, all seasons always suck, we work already enough to gain our life, I don't want to work when I am gaming.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Tomowolf on July 20, 2012, 01:37:35 pm
Best thing ever is that nerfing crafting just made new players go away, because :
- old player got their damn carpets in their bases and do not care
- afaik none of old players craft anything they need, but just farm, steal , kill.
so imo big fail.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Slick on July 20, 2012, 01:38:00 pm
2238 is serious business its a full time job.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Lexx on July 20, 2012, 01:42:17 pm
Ofc.

Only basic stuff craftable, basic armors craftable(from jackets to metal armor mk2), basic weapons craftable(sniper rifles, avangers, lsw's, gatlings(?) only farmable, sniper rifles in caves).

You could dig minerals/ore anywhere on map. There was no CD for that. You could dig as much as you could. The limit was your carry weight.

There was almost no CD for crafting. It was something between few seconds and few minutes  ;)

Simple and satisfactory.

I just remember lots of botting and players not visiting any other location except encounter maps, with pretty much no player to player interaction at all.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: LeMark on July 20, 2012, 01:49:26 pm
I just remember lots of botting and players not visiting any other location except encounter maps, with pretty much no player to player interaction at all.

It was the Modoc session, I remember a lot of interaction during this one.

Remember the "Cajuns and VSB are there, town is safe", we meat the Hawk there to.

Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Uftak on July 20, 2012, 01:57:24 pm
Eh, I lost hope that there'll b balance between melee and unarmed..
Well, gonna wait next session..
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Tomowolf on July 20, 2012, 02:02:48 pm
Wait wait... So one player each by one comming to the mine, giving some work on rocks then put them on brah, and then come to base is called "player interaction" buehahaha , no offense but this is the most bullshit thing I've ever heard on this forum since Xoen cow time.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: manero on July 20, 2012, 02:12:33 pm
I just remember lots of botting and players not visiting any other location except encounter maps, with pretty much no player to player interaction at all.

lol wut? I remember incomparably higher, than nowadays, amount of interactions anywhere I moved . Stuff easy to get, less worries about lost it. Even if i call interaction 5mm bullets exchange.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Hovinko on July 20, 2012, 02:38:07 pm
lol wut? I remember incomparably higher, than nowadays, amount of interactions anywhere I moved . Stuff easy to get, less worries about lost it. Even if i call interaction 5mm bullets exchange.

It was not because of some crafting mechanics, but because this game was new and more players were playing it.
Crafting now is OK, but timeout increase is not a good change.

Last season (Before 15. January Wipe), there was 2hours crafting timeout. Fine.
But there were no blueprints and materials was very easy to get. Players could easily make 5-10 alt crafting chars and make for example BA very easily in mass numbers (For gang purposes).
Now you need very hard (or lucky) to get blueprint for ca even for ma mk2 (Which is nearly better than ca and much easier to craft).

I think 1 hour timeout is just too short. 6-12 hours should be fine.
1 hour timeout just means more alts, more blueprints farm and even more autoclickers to just log in, craft and log out each hour.
Economy will not be ruined by 6-12 hours timeouts, same as it wasnt ruined because of unlimited crafting timeout.
Economy is ruined by those "enclave gatling farm and bos superstimpack stealing without karma loss feature", which SHOULD BE FIXED NOW, but no info in changelog. 
http://dev.fonline2238.net/trac.wsgi/ticket/42#comment:1
http://dev.fonline2238.net/trac.wsgi/ticket/31

Both labeled as fixed a few days ago, still no info in this update changelog.

Btw, another GREAT CHANGE, would be to make High quality alloys and High quality metal parts, craftable at standart (not advanced) workbench.

 
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: LeMark on July 20, 2012, 02:44:03 pm
lol wut? I remember incomparably higher, than nowadays, amount of interactions anywhere I moved . Stuff easy to get, less worries about lost it. Even if i call interaction 5mm bullets exchange.

True, what happens in Modoc in second session can't happens now, who will camp inside a town with stuff waiting be wiped by raider? Now is blue suite  madness and WM camping.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Trokanis on July 20, 2012, 02:54:27 pm
Not a fan of the Crafting cooldown, at least with it combined with all the other crafting BS atm.  Haven't found a new Traveler yet to talk to them about their weapon profs, hope they didn't get broken along with the Brahmins which are sorta shittin like crazy and you can't shovel it anymore.  That was an oopsie? 

So did I read it right that we can no longer snipe weapons out of enemy hands?  Can we even cripple them?  Or was it only the Supermutants in the Gunrunner encounters?
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: JovankaB on July 20, 2012, 03:18:47 pm
So did I read it right that we can no longer snipe weapons out of enemy hands?  Can we even cripple them?  Or was it only the Supermutants in the Gunrunner encounters?

It should be possible to cripple them, they don't drop weapons because they were supposed
to be non-lootable so it was a kind of exploit. Just in the quests where enemies can't be looted.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Perteks on July 20, 2012, 03:22:18 pm
Huh if i good remember that quest was only viable source of improved flamer, one of mutie have and there was one in locker ;P
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Lexx on July 20, 2012, 03:38:59 pm
Wait wait... So one player each by one comming to the mine, giving some work on rocks then put them on brah, and then come to base is called "player interaction" buehahaha , no offense but this is the most bullshit thing I've ever heard on this forum since Xoen cow time.

Good to know, but I didn't said that.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Eternauta on July 20, 2012, 04:31:17 pm
It should be possible to cripple them, they don't drop weapons because they were supposed
to be non-lootable so it was a kind of exploit. Just in the quests where enemies can't be looted.

I understand that making them drop their weapons through critical hits was an exploit because they weren't supposed to be lootable enemies, but may I ask, why aren't they lootable in the first place? What is wrong with getting a few guns as well as the other loot from that quest? Especially when we can always farm Unity.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Tomowolf on July 20, 2012, 04:57:00 pm
Still, If whenever Iam wrong, this update ain't cool for crafters, and that was all fun what I've been gaining from this game (not counting unfinished quests and fail features),
I got mah fruits and can exchange them for not-so-shiny metel armors now for lamk2 and still have fun, while other people who still want to craft.... will make 5 another alts and get 5 another blueprints - really you're so intelligent.
And you want to decrease alting in any coming feature, b* please.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: T-888 on July 20, 2012, 04:59:27 pm
True, what happens in Modoc in second session can't happens now, who will camp inside a town with stuff waiting be wiped by raider? Now is blue suite  madness and WM camping.

Players evolved, if there would be second season right now, i bet there would still be WM camping and bluesuits running around. People just understood with time, that it's more efficient to plan some strategy and get to know what's happening inside the city while being on WM, and that it's better to just run around and see everything that happens and even cause some problems to some players by some bluesuits who have nothing to loose, instead of risking any gear/time re-arming upon loss.

Different season won't change that.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: JovankaB on July 20, 2012, 05:28:37 pm
I understand that making them drop their weapons through critical hits was an exploit because they weren't supposed to be lootable enemies, but may I ask, why aren't they lootable in the first place? What is wrong with getting a few guns as well as the other loot from that quest? Especially when we can always farm Unity.

It's impossible to scale difficulty for quests with good rewards like BPs without giving the mobs some powerful weapons.
But if you give them powerful weapons, the weapons become reward too, so it becomes unbalanced again.

It's simply too easy to kill a supermutant with avenger with the AI we have.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Eternauta on July 20, 2012, 05:31:58 pm
It's impossible to scale difficulty for quests with good rewards like BPs without giving the mobs some powerful weapons.
But if you give them powerful weapons, the weapons become reward too, so it becomes unbalanced again.

It's simply too easy to kill a supermutant with avenger with the AI we have.

So what? why can't those weapons be part of the reward? As said, we can still farm Unity 24/7. Imho it's better to get good weapons from quests like this instead of from random encounters genocide.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: JovankaB on July 20, 2012, 05:32:50 pm
So what? why can't those weapons be part of the reward? As said, we can still farm Unity 24/7. Imho it's better to get good weapons from quests like this instead of from random encounters genocide.

Because it's too big reward for the difficulty / effort you have to take.
Don't compare Unity with 100% Avengers in safe locations please.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Eternauta on July 20, 2012, 05:35:24 pm
Because it's too big reward for the difficulty / effort you have to take.
Don't compare Unity with 100% Avengers in safe locations please.

All right, let's not compare these guys with Unity. Let's compare them with the Enclave folks you can disarm in encounters.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: JovankaB on July 20, 2012, 05:38:52 pm
All right, let's not compare these guys with Unity. Let's compare them with the Enclave folks you can disarm in encounters.

That should be more difficult too.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: T-888 on July 20, 2012, 05:40:44 pm
Can't see the ticket, need privileges, anyway what jovanka is saying. It's fixed and can't farm enclave in a way it was done before.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Crazy on July 20, 2012, 05:41:26 pm
That should be more difficult too.
Quote
Error: Forbidden

TICKET_VIEW privileges are required to perform this operation on Ticket #30

I guess that's because it describe an easy exploit that regular people can't view it :)
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Tomowolf on July 20, 2012, 05:49:03 pm
Can't see the ticket, need privileges, anyway what jovanka is saying. It's fixed and can't farm enclave in a way it was done before.
Still people got their explosives hurr.

Ab. BP rewards from the GR quest:
LSW BP
rest BPs (weapons farmable or useless)
Only cool "rare" but not so usefull (even with failromanic perks) Improved Flamers (hell let's steal some mk2 fuel instead of crafting because we can't durr).
Oh forgot - they're not so rare, can get them for free in Glow, fail again blurp.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: JovankaB on July 20, 2012, 07:34:45 pm
Still people got their explosives hurr.

Ab. BP rewards from the GR quest:
LSW BP
rest BPs (weapons farmable or useless)
Only cool "rare" but not so usefull (even with failromanic perks) Improved Flamers (hell let's steal some mk2 fuel instead of crafting because we can't durr).
Oh forgot - they're not so rare, can get them for free in Glow, fail again blurp.

Perhaps there could be more things in boxes but making supermutants lootable would just made it too good no matter what.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: chocolate_chip_cookies on July 20, 2012, 07:50:04 pm
Perhaps there could be more things in boxes but making supermutants lootable would just made it too good no matter what.

GMs don't really "play" the game so they wouldn't know what is "too good" and just speculate.

You can't possibly know balance when you have 9999 hp and GM powers. It's not even your job to know balance, just to prevent exploits and help.

On a side note, that's why being a GM sucks. You don't really experience the game.

And farming BOS for avenger is easier than the gunrunner quest.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: DeputyDope on July 20, 2012, 07:53:31 pm
Eh, I lost hope that there'll b balance between melee and unarmed..
Well, gonna wait next session..

dude seriously can you shut the fuck up about melee and unarmed? it's fine as it is, if not OP.

you obviously don't know what balance is, because balance in your vision means killing a fully armed and fully armored guy with a wooden pole wearing a blue spandex suit, so bugger off already.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Uftak on July 20, 2012, 08:00:07 pm
dude seriously can you shut the fuck up about melee and unarmed? it's fine as it is, if not OP.

you obviously don't know what balance is, because balance in your vision means killing a fully armed and fully armored guy with a wooden pole, so bugger off already.
Everybody around just ignored mah post includin myself.
Geez, Deputy, could you stop "chasing" me and start doin' smth more interestin', cus that bias to my person might be very unhealthy for you.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Wichura on July 20, 2012, 08:24:48 pm
So what? why can't those weapons be part of the reward? As said, we can still farm Unity 24/7. Imho it's better to get good weapons from quests like this instead of from random encounters genocide.
Nerf of farming Unity is about to come, fear not.

It can be a vision of real Wasteland, with sharpened sticks, rocks and three bullets per whole city (remember "Mad Max 2"?), because farming will be impossible (due to NO_LOOT mode for enemies), crafting difficult as fuck (cooldowns, depleted resources, whatever) and so on. Yes, sounds challenging and worth to try for sure.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: FrankenStone on July 20, 2012, 08:47:20 pm
It was not because of some crafting mechanics, but because this game was new and more players were playing it.
Crafting now is OK, but timeout increase is not a good change.

Last season (Before 15. January Wipe), there was 2hours crafting timeout. Fine.
But there were no blueprints and materials was very easy to get. Players could easily make 5-10 alt crafting chars and make for example BA very easily in mass numbers (For gang purposes).
Now you need very hard (or lucky) to get blueprint for ca even for ma mk2 (Which is nearly better than ca and much easier to craft).

I think 1 hour timeout is just too short. 6-12 hours should be fine.
1 hour timeout just means more alts, more blueprints farm and even more autoclickers to just log in, craft and log out each hour.
Economy will not be ruined by 6-12 hours timeouts, same as it wasnt ruined because of unlimited crafting timeout.
Economy is ruined by those "enclave gatling farm and bos superstimpack stealing without karma loss feature", which SHOULD BE FIXED NOW, but no info in changelog. 
http://dev.fonline2238.net/trac.wsgi/ticket/42#comment:1
http://dev.fonline2238.net/trac.wsgi/ticket/31

Both labeled as fixed a few days ago, still no info in this update changelog.

Btw, another GREAT CHANGE, would be to make High quality alloys and High quality metal parts, craftable at standart (not advanced) workbench.

thats all what i would sya too to this update , update is great without that craftersCD fail but lets wait and see maybe the other things get fixed then and some balance will come back lol
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Lexx on July 20, 2012, 08:53:35 pm
Nerf of farming Unity is about to come, fear not.

It can be a vision of real Wasteland, with sharpened sticks, rocks and three bullets per whole city (remember "Mad Max 2"?), because farming will be impossible (due to NO_LOOT mode for enemies), crafting difficult as fuck (cooldowns, depleted resources, whatever) and so on. Yes, sounds challenging and worth to try for sure.

Oh no, they fixed no_loot for mobs in a quest and open pvp location, so we cannot exploit them anymore. The universe will fall apart!
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: codave on July 20, 2012, 09:31:05 pm
Perhaps there could be more things in boxes but making supermutants lootable would just made it too good no matter what.

I don't understand this mindset.

If the idea is to make it as hard as possible to get top tier weapons, why even have them at all? TC with Mausers, Hunting Rifles, and Flamers FTW?

I promise you, there is no feature, system, or other idea that can be implemented that cannot be bypassed or exploited. If it is in game, it will be farmed. All you can do is determine how much extra work we have to out into getting it.





By fixing "exploits", all you do is encourage us to find new ones. And we will. It's inevitable.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Brujah on July 20, 2012, 09:52:20 pm
So why are muties in Ares if we can't loot them?
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Gunshot on July 20, 2012, 09:57:11 pm
Good Update but this is the end of crafters as we know it.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: TKs-KaBoom on July 20, 2012, 09:58:32 pm
Nerf of farming Unity is about to come, fear not.

It can be a vision of real Wasteland, with sharpened sticks, rocks and three bullets per whole city (remember "Mad Max 2"?), because farming will be impossible (due to NO_LOOT mode for enemies), crafting difficult as fuck (cooldowns, depleted resources, whatever) and so on. Yes, sounds challenging and worth to try for sure.

Sadly I believe this is the vision of where the Developers are taking us....

How many of you would of got addicted to fallout 1 and 2 if that were the case?  It would have been the quickest frisbee toss to the trash can ever, something to remember when you Devs are mucking around with "fallout 2238"?   Nah.......

For those of you who never played fallout 1 and 2, your opinion really doesn't count :)
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: avv on July 20, 2012, 09:59:39 pm
By fixing "exploits", all you do is encourage us to find new ones. And we will. It's inevitable.

I'm thinking the exactly same. Was gonna make a thread about it but might aswell write it here.

Some items are simply pain in the ass to get, so players choose to abuse them.
Example: nuka cola. It's horribly slow to craft, which was reported and explained. Also its price remained the same as last session, while caps farming was made 10x slower. So nothing was done about the "fair" ways to get nuka. Then there's exploit where nuka could be received rather easily, someone reported it and the exploit disappeared immediately while nothing was done about the way nuka could be received with normal methods. Only tc players have easy access to nuka cola.

There was also a way to get cigarettes for free, but someone reported that too, it got "fixed" and now nobody except tc players can get cigarettes because the fields don't regenerate and it's still damn slow to get even if they would.

Do you realize that his kind of game management simply encourages us players to stay hush hush about abuses?

Another example: enclave isn't so abusive anymore. Well, it is still but guess what? I'm not going to report it before there is some fun and balanced feature to receive avengers and gatling lasers. If the exploit was reported, all that would happen is that the abuse would be shut down but normal method to get those guns would be nowhere to be seen and we players would have to figure a new abuse.

Also 5mm, rockets and superstims from BOS are supposedly harder to get. Not exactly, still exploitable but I'm not going to report that either before there is fun and balanced way to get those items.

So please: Don't shut down abuses before there is fun normal way, accessible to everyone to receive items in question. Don't try to force teamplay, encourage it but don't force it. Don't try to limit players with cooldowns, let players be their own limit. And don't, for heaven's sake make farming more time consuming, like was done with junk. It can be made more dangerous so that players have to risk better equipment or have to travel to pk-infested zones.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Lexx on July 20, 2012, 10:29:11 pm
So why are muties in Ares if we can't loot them?

They exist only for the sole purpose to make it harder for you to loot the containers in this location.

Sadly I believe this is the vision of where the Developers are taking us....

How many of you would of got addicted to fallout 1 and 2 if that were the case?  It would have been the quickest frisbee toss to the trash can ever, something to remember when you Devs are mucking around with "fallout 2238"?   Nah.......

For those of you who never played fallout 1 and 2, your opinion really doesn't count :)

Fallout 1 nor 2 has a crafting system. As they are singleplayer games, their broken economy doesn't matter much as well. Therefore your point is... pointless? The original games are known for their story, quests and rpg-ness, not how good you can craft in them or how easy it is to exploit power armors 1 minute after the game started, etc.

By fixing "exploits", all you do is encourage us to find new ones. And we will. It's inevitable.

That's totally normal and counts for every online game. Doesn't stop us from plugging them, though.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: TKs-KaBoom on July 20, 2012, 10:59:08 pm


Fallout 1 nor 2 has a crafting system. As they are singleplayer games, their broken economy doesn't matter much as well. Therefore your point is... pointless? The original games are known for their story, quests and rpg-ness, not how good you can craft in them or how easy it is to exploit power armors 1 minute after the game started, etc.



The "point" is there was gear to obtain, some really cool gear!  If this game becomes a pointy stick simulator as is the exageratted curve of development is seemingly headed then I wonder how many people will choose to play this?  My point had nothing to do with crafting but with the ability to obtain kool toyz.  I see though you just don't get it.....  oh well.  Get ready for pointy sticks!
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Sarakin on July 20, 2012, 11:25:31 pm
Gunrunner quest could be easily done with just one characater, acquiring dozen various weapons.
I agree with cumulative crafting cd, 6 hours would be nice.
Maybe there shouldnt be a easy way how to get avengers, so start playing with normal miniguns.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: avv on July 20, 2012, 11:43:58 pm
Gunrunner quest could be easily done with just one characater, acquiring dozen various weapons.
I agree with cumulative crafting cd, 6 hours would be nice.
Maybe there shouldnt be a easy way how to get avengers, so start playing with normal miniguns.

The harder it is to get, the harder it gets abused.
I wouldn't mind playing with normal miniguns because current damage output of some guns is very high. But if you nerf constant damage dealing guns, criplers and crit-based weapons become more popular.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: T-888 on July 21, 2012, 12:40:54 am
So nothing was done about the "fair" ways to get nuka.

http://clip2net.com/s/28vhy

Legit TC and that's no photoshop, i went over main bases and counted the approximate number of nukas, not including what was on ground or lockers witch shouldn't have any loot, it was around ~45k nuka cola. Drugs for an eternity.

It's hard to find blueprints, but the actual crafting itself is a piece of cake if you think about, it was just stupid when you could just go and make 100 CA at once, the cooldown is retarded too, but still it's too easy to get high tier items in this game. Most items ingame have no worth, armor is like paper easy to reproduce, ammunition is raining from the sky and drugs are as much as water in the world, gold nuggets in ammounts you can only imagine, there's practically nothing you can't buy from traders with gold nuggets or ammunition or thousands of worthless ordinary stimpacks.

Think hard, not so hard to obtain anything. Before you start yapping about big gangs and what not, it's just how the game is for me. Players whining that it is so hard to craft and do most of the things ingame while i just frown with my shoulders. So i kinda disagree with most things i read here.

Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: manero on July 21, 2012, 12:56:05 am
I would really like to know what is "player's fun" in 2238 developers opnion  :)

Longer waiting? Harder access? WTF is wrong with you. This game is harsh enough. Players want to get quick and satisfactory gameplay. Have you ever played computer games? I don't even ask Jovanka and Wipe(sorry girls) but Lexx? Ghosthack? Scypior? Seriously, come on.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: T-888 on July 21, 2012, 01:00:17 am
"player's fun"

This was supposed to be a survival horror game!? I think i heard that somewhere.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: greenthumb on July 21, 2012, 01:08:57 am
is there any direct download for 19/7 update?
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Kelin on July 21, 2012, 02:37:23 am
Worst update ever and yea this is a whine post. Why did you #@&{[Đđ make Enclave patrols unlootable? It was boring as hell to get their weapons, it took me about 10 minutes to get one avenger, now it takes me an hour maybe more, because I have to find only one Enclave guy. If you think about it, avenger is just a part of your gear. You also need armors (another boring thing to get), drugs (sorry I'm not T-888 and I don't have zillions of nukas), superstimpaks (afaik these got nerfed, too) and ammo. Yea all this shit is needed to enjoy pvp and until now it already took me hours to get it.

So when there is a bad day and I lose like 5 gears, I have to go and farm 5 avengers, steal thousands of 5mm etc. Which was very boring. But NOW?! I takes the whole day to get stuff you could use at the evening pvp. This means less actions, because people don't fight in a bad gear (there is always some enemy with the best gear available) and also they are scared of losing it. How this can be healthy for a gameplay? Can someone tell me? This looks like devs want to bore us to the point we leave the game and never come back.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: JovankaB on July 21, 2012, 02:55:46 am
Why did you #@&{[Đđ make Enclave patrols unlootable?

No idea what you talk about, they are lootable. You just have to win a battle with them
not do some shenanigans with shooting hands and grabbing dropped weapons with multilogs.
Or grab and survive it...
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: FrankenStone on July 21, 2012, 03:39:49 am
http://clip2net.com/s/28vhy

Legit TC and that's no photoshop, i went over main bases and counted the approximate number of nukas, not including what was on ground or lockers witch shouldn't have any loot, it was around ~45k nuka cola. Drugs for an eternity.

It's hard to find blueprints, but the actual crafting itself is a piece of cake if you think about, it was just stupid when you could just go and make 100 CA at once, the cooldown is retarded too, but still it's too easy to get high tier items in this game. Most items ingame have no worth, armor is like paper easy to reproduce, ammunition is raining from the sky and drugs are as much as water in the world, gold nuggets in ammounts you can only imagine, there's practically nothing you can't buy from traders with gold nuggets or ammunition or thousands of worthless ordinary stimpacks.

Think hard, not so hard to obtain anything. Before you start yapping about big gangs and what not, it's just how the game is for me. Players whining that it is so hard to craft and do most of the things ingame while i just frown with my shoulders. So i kinda disagree with most things i read here.

lol thats the funniest thing ive ever read so far here , u know what , i dont care about what u have posted here becauze i know u have never played alone and thats the fact why u will never bring something smart on here (Y)
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Trokanis on July 21, 2012, 05:21:32 am
Thanks for the replies about Sniping.  But really the way crafting this session was soo nerfed to begin with, to hit it again, ouch.... 

However I know it's hard to dot every T and cross every I when working on fixes so I am not trying to sound like "Oh dev's fucking suck, stupid morons."  Cause that really isn't the case.  Just stuff I feel IMHO, may not have been executed right.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: codave on July 21, 2012, 08:27:51 am
because I have to find only one Enclave guy

I forsee a time when finding a lone Enclave patrol will be called an 'exploit', and 'fixed'.


Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Lexx on July 21, 2012, 08:52:58 am
Nobody whined yet about blueprints being easier to aquire. How come?
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: TKs-KaBoom on July 21, 2012, 08:56:01 am
Nobody whined yet about blueprints being easier to aquire. How come?

This is an outrage, bps are way to easy to get!  Come on devs, nobody wants bps to be easily obtainable, this is game breaking.  I refuse to play till bps are no longer findable!
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: codave on July 21, 2012, 09:04:17 am
Nobody whined yet about blueprints being easier to aquire. How come?

Think about this.  I spend (minimum) 2 hours each time I log on to hunt blueprints.  Since the wipe.  I have FIVE alts designed specifically for this, to find the most effective build.  I cannot count the hours I have spent looking for those fucking blueprints.  I have yet to find ANY type of helmet, at all.  No Combat Armor.  No Sniper Rifle, no P90, no Plasma Rifle, etc.

Want to know what I find?  30 Super Sledge blueprints.  Dynamite every other day, so many that I started dropping them on the WM with the Super Sledge prints.  Super Cattle Prods by the dozen.  Etc.  Useless shit.

No one complains, because we were made to grind like fucking trained chimps to get them for so long with such a low success rate.

Why would we complain?  Because there is a chance that we won't have to waste as much of our time?  That's all making us grind does - waste our time.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Stration on July 21, 2012, 09:14:30 am
Nobody whined yet about blueprints being easier to aquire. How come?
This might be the case because nobody cares about blueprints any more since crafting was made virtually impossible.

Plus, "easier" still means "impossible without spending 8000 hours looking for them" (as compared to 9000 hours before the update).

Needless to say, when a blueprint is finally found...
Want to know what I find? (...) Super Sledge

Thank God I didn't even try to craft anything this session save weak healing powder; I would most likely end up developing an aneurysm if I did.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Action Jack on July 21, 2012, 09:26:52 am
No idea what you talk about, they are lootable. You just have to win a battle with them
not do some shenanigans with shooting hands and grabbing dropped weapons with multilogs.
Or grab and survive it...

And why is this a bad thing inside your guys head? Somebody took the time leveled the characters found out a creative way to get something and its bad lets nerf it! I do not understand what goes inside the heads of the 2238 team why do you guys like to make this game less enjoyable? We don't want to spend months crafting and finding blue prints we like fast paced town control action. Us apes go through gear like crazy we don't have carpets of gear alot of it gets lost in a days action and have to get more and yet you want to nerf anything that takes a less time, why is this?

I mean I wouldn't be such an ass about these sort of things if the last update didn't allow a base raper we kicked to have access to the base, and if you just keep making it more and more difficult. Why nerf the crafting now? I mean its too late in the game we have example that SoT has an ungodly amount of drugs, all the people who have played this from begining have bases filled with crafted gear wel the exception of me  because if the gay update that got my base raped. But still why make this game more difficult? Why is it that you guys don't want us to have fun and have fast paced PvP action?

Just fucking wipe it if this game is going to change drastically. There is too much exploits that were abused and way too much gear crafted for anybody to really have a fair chance starting new now.

I have never played a game made by a bunch of sick individuals who like to make the game less enjoyable and fun each update.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: codave on July 21, 2012, 10:00:26 am
I just exploited two Avenger Miniguns.

All arguments are invalidated.

Carry on.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Action Jack on July 21, 2012, 10:01:48 am
I just exploited two Avenger Miniguns.

All arguments are invalidated.

Carry on.

EVIL SWINE! NERF HIM UPDATE THE GAME NOW TO FIX THIS! BAD NOBODY ALLOWED TO HAVE AVENGERS!
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: codave on July 21, 2012, 10:05:04 am
I didn't even have to use a weapon, or dual log.

Teh horror.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: hejmr on July 21, 2012, 10:32:53 am
Quote from: Wipe
- Various improvements with brahmin that should result in better poo distribution inside the pens.

What is this for when the shovel doesn't work? It doesn't make sense you know.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: JovankaB on July 21, 2012, 10:53:25 am
What is this for when the shovel doesn't work? It doesn't make sense you know.

Bug, will be fixed on next update. If you checked tracker you would know it:
http://dev.fonline2238.net/trac.wsgi/query?description=~shit

Can't wait to see the run to pens after next update :)
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Action Jack on July 21, 2012, 11:27:27 am
Bug, will be fixed on next update. If you checked tracker you would know it:
http://dev.fonline2238.net/trac.wsgi/query?description=~shit

Can't wait to see the run to pens after next update :)

What's in the next update or as I call fix and change useless things and nerf anything that anybody finds fun like stealing? Remove 10mm pistol? Nerf sharpened pole crafting? Or how about changing base access so all bases are visible on world map to all players! Jovankas vision run around blue suit with no items not dying!
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: JovankaB on July 21, 2012, 11:34:27 am
What's in the next update or as I call fix and change useless things and nerf anything that anybody finds fun like stealing? Remove 10mm pistol? Nerf sharpened pole crafting? Or how about changing base access so all bases are visible on world map to all players! Jovankas vision run around blue suit with no items not dying!

You can check here:
http://dev.fonline2238.net/trac.wsgi/query?milestone=July12c

Well, for tickets which are public.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: greenthumb on July 21, 2012, 11:45:15 am
i would like to get few information about game and updating it.

Whats the way you choose things to be changed in game?
What was reason to get cooldown on crafting?(etc too many items in game?)
What was reason to get reputation loss in random encounter for stealing?
What is use for stealers after update in PVE?(1 or 2 examples)
Is there anyway how to improve reputation with BOS,ENCLAVE?(repeatably)


thanks for answers
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Action Jack on July 21, 2012, 12:18:29 pm
i would like to get few information about game and updating it.

Whats the way you choose things to be changed in game?
What was reason to get cooldown on crafting?(etc too many items in game?)
What was reason to get reputation loss in random encounter for stealing?
What is use for stealers after update in PVE?(1 or 2 examples)
Is there anyway how to improve reputation with BOS,ENCLAVE?(repeatably)


thanks for answers
There is no process its spur the moment ideas, they don't play their own game and can just use GM commands so they do not understand these frustrations. They listen to idiots who kiss their asses which are factions who are not dominate any more in PvP and so they are cry babying to their friends to change things and to piss everybody off.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Kelin on July 21, 2012, 12:40:22 pm
No idea what you talk about, they are lootable. You just have to win a battle with them
not do some shenanigans with shooting hands and grabbing dropped weapons with multilogs.
Or grab and survive it...
I didn't express myself correctly, yes I know they are lootable but it's significantly harder to get stuff from them. Why is it bad? Because only the biggest hoarders gathered enough stuff, I know some people who only play gatling laser builds (a friend of mine has like 4 alts) and now he's fucked up. He has maybe 15 gatling lasers (matter of 3-5 pvp evenings?) and he's already looking for another game. Really Jov, show me how you win a battle with an enclave patrol not using GM account or multilog. Just you vs. them. Not only once, but many times. After the first encounter your reputation won't allow you to shoot first. Taking into account that you might win one battle, thanks to 75% crit. chance that enclave patrols have you will fail very often. This is even more frustrating than searching for a one patrolman.
I just exploited two Avenger Miniguns.

All arguments are invalidated.

Carry on.
Two avengers, big deal. I didn't say it's impossible to get them. How long did it take with all the preparations?
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: codave on July 21, 2012, 12:46:33 pm
Two avengers, big deal. I didn't say it's impossible to get them. How long did it take with all the preparations?

No prep, spur of the moment thing.  Decided to try something to see if it would work.  It did.

I know two is an insignificant number, that's not the point.  I went and got more after I made that post.

The point is, it only took me a little bit to figure out another way to "exploit", and get Avengers without killing BOS/Enclave.  It's repeatable, and it's really not that time consuming. 

Nerf invalidated, at least for me.  I promise you someone else probably already had a way around it before I did.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Kelin on July 21, 2012, 01:08:15 pm
If it's true, just don't tell anyone, you probably found the same exploit as avv did. I will eventually realize the trick but if devs find out we're done.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Tomowolf on July 21, 2012, 01:11:36 pm
If it's true, just don't tell anyone, you probably found the same exploit as avv did. I will eventually realize the trick but if devs find out we're done.
I hope you'll farm them enough, to show any nerfs ain't way to balance the current system.
Really, All those nerfs hurt only one big group of players : PVPers.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: DeputyDope on July 21, 2012, 01:14:39 pm

Really, All those nerfs hurt only one big group of players : PVPers.

agreed.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: McBorn on July 21, 2012, 01:25:10 pm
Just stop play it guys, like somebody said testing of bugs and error, simulator of waiting, no fun.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Sarakin on July 21, 2012, 04:47:28 pm
@ Kelin - Maybe you should do something unspeakable, to team up with someone and kill them together. Dont tell me you want to kill & loot the most powerful encounter just by yourself.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: TKs-KaBoom on July 21, 2012, 05:23:16 pm
@ Kelin - Maybe you should do something unspeakable, to team up with someone and kill them together. Dont tell me you want to kill & loot the most powerful encounter just by yourself.

Nah pvpers have a horrific competitive attitude, they all watched superman too many times.  They don't want to play if they aren't the star.  They are ok with doing pvp in a team because they all think they are the quarterback and everybody else is there cheerleaders.  They really aren't about playing the "game" just showing off to each other who has the best build, like a sophomoric pissing contest.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: LittleBoy on July 21, 2012, 05:24:16 pm
- Cumulative crafting timeout (1 hour)  - This destroys crafting. Nice try to destroy the variety of the game...

Really? think about it seriously . One metal mk1 take ~30min , you can craft only two metal armors  >:(
Only fantic or player who have a lot of alts can make stuff for pvp.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: manero on July 21, 2012, 06:09:24 pm
What is devs solution to fix troll builds problem? It's a problem not a feature. HH&AC.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: avv on July 21, 2012, 06:28:50 pm
@ Kelin - Maybe you should do something unspeakable, to team up with someone and kill them together. Dont tell me you want to kill & loot the most powerful encounter just by yourself.

But dual log is the bypass for teaming up. Everything that involves teaming up can be exploited if you have only npcs against you.
So what's wrong with designing features that allow people to farm alone if they are going to do it anyway with abuse?
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Jytz on July 21, 2012, 07:05:23 pm
Nah pvpers have a horrific competitive attitude, they all watched superman too many times.  They don't want to play if they aren't the star.  They are ok with doing pvp in a team because they all think they are the quarterback and everybody else is there cheerleaders.  They really aren't about playing the "game" just showing off to each other who has the best build, like a sophomoric pissing contest.

Maybe I don't want to play because the armor, superstims and ammo for the PvP builds is now a pain in the ass and not fun to get? Why play a game you don't enjoy they pretty much ruined everything that kept me interested in the game.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Wichura on July 21, 2012, 07:12:00 pm
Maybe I don't want to play because the armor, superstims and ammo for the PvP builds is now a pain in the ass and not fun to get?
It's easy and fun for PvE builds to get.

Oh wait ...
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: MyGunYourHead on July 21, 2012, 07:34:37 pm
this game sounds like it has gone to shit lol kinda glad i quit playing before it was to late lol
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: jacky. on July 21, 2012, 07:39:54 pm
Same here
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: codave on July 21, 2012, 08:57:38 pm
If it's true, just don't tell anyone, you probably found the same exploit as avv did. I will eventually realize the trick but if devs find out we're done.

See, I knew I wasn't a genius.  Other people will figure it out soon enough on their own.  The fun part is that it might not even be the same trick, and it doesn't even matter.

Necessity, the mother of invention.  Etc.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Trokanis on July 22, 2012, 07:17:25 am
Well I don't have much of an opinion toward the issue with shooting items from hands, looting and running, but whats the problem.  Items are such a pain in the ass to make, and worse to repair is it such a bad thing that people found ways to get more of the items.  In the end someone with 5 avengers is only going to really supply 1 combat character, because the others have to be kept to either repair the main one or replace it in the off chance of a death.  This is just what I'm seeing from the posts about it, I'm sure I missed something. 

The crafting timer is really a slap in the already bloodied face of crafters.  I am not a dev, and I am not privy to every issue and complaint the game deals with, but I really don't see the purpose of limiting items through crafting and drops.  People either make a million alts (which makes the game incredibly redundant) or they resort to some 'exploit', which still just brings down game play value.  At least in the last season you could craft or loot most anything that was mildly decent, now you have to have 4 alts just to get crap items.  Was there some problem last season with people being able to have 10mm SMG's, ok armor early on, and with patience some of the better gear?

Like I said, but because of how many people are just yelling I'll say it again.  I'm not in your heads Dev's I'm not one of ya, so I can only speculate on why things were changed the way they are.  What I can do however is tell you how it effects my gameplay and that of the friends I run with.  And right now it really feels like things are just being randomly removed without cause.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Xisingr Will on July 22, 2012, 07:57:25 am
Crying is all that is on the forum these days...
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: TKs-KaBoom on July 22, 2012, 09:29:23 am
yes there were far too many 10mm's :)  Broke the whole god damn game!  Where were you, didn't you notice how many people were carrying 10mm's, why if I were in the USA I would ban them!  Nobody should have a 10mm!  For hunting a pipe rifle is overly sufficient and for home defense a double barrel shotgun should do.  Who on earth would need a 30 round magazine?  Are you a terrorist?
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: steve s. on July 22, 2012, 10:54:18 am
with every update i'm still waiting for any sign of the RPers promised land. Just one magnificent place where I can feel like part of the world I've grown to love, a place to be a model for the future, but it seems a distant dream now. the quests of this land seem forever half baked, the world eternally simple and dull, the players always shallow. all this petty arguing over such little things as crafting and exploits seems as inconsequential background noise by comparison to the lack of depth. maybe I am simply asking too much, but as the sands of time drift by I am left unsatisfied in a similar matter to that of Tantalus. ever hungry and thirsty for something that seems obtainable, yet it is forever just beyond my grasp! maybe it is the illusion, that I will someday quench my thirst and taste the fruit, that prevents me from leaving to search for a better chance. maybe I am just stubborn. regardless the outcome will always be suffering. If I just knew the crime for which I was charged to suffer like this, perhaps I could find some piece.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: T-888 on July 22, 2012, 11:51:50 am
I don't understand, wasn't this supposed to be some player interaction plan by devs? What's the problem?

advanced workbench => public places => crafting cooldown to encourage frequent visits to public locations.

It seems players just want to rot in caves forever, because it takes less time to do something.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Kelin on July 22, 2012, 11:55:41 am
I'm not sure if you noticed, but gatling lasers and avengers cannot be crafted  ::)
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: T-888 on July 22, 2012, 12:07:26 pm
Those weapons will never be craftable, they are meant to be top high tier weapons, hard to obtain. That is what i understood from Solar.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: avv on July 22, 2012, 12:13:26 pm
advanced workbench => public places => crafting cooldown to encourage frequent visits to public locations.

I refuse to accept that increasing "player interaction" has to be done with the cost of reducing fun. Cooldowns aren't fun. It's funnier to craft big deal of items in one go rather than 1 every hour.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Skycast on July 22, 2012, 12:30:03 pm
I refuse to accept that increasing "player interaction" has to be done with the cost of reducing fun. Cooldowns aren't fun. It's funnier to craft big deal of items in one go rather than 1 every hour.
Craft cooldown is shit, another cause of alting. Crafting must be regulated by time spent to gather mats, not by craft cd.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: T-888 on July 22, 2012, 12:35:30 pm
So you rather not visit public locations frequently, because it's boring? Player interaction isn't fun itself? It's easy to craft big amounts of items in one go, but then the whole idea of advanced workbenches in public locations are drained down the pipe. By your logic, it would be better if you could do all that in some cave, waste of time to go to advanced workbenches since players visit them so rarely because they can make large amounts of items in public places and not return for a long time, that's why there's no player interaction, wasn't. So you refuse increasing "player interaction" because it's more casual, fuck player interaction, fuck features that makes you go out of your cave. Isn't this what the community has been asking for a long time? Many suggestions revolve around hardcore discussion about how to increase player interaction, now that it's done somehow, it's not good enough ... pfff.

Craft cooldown is shit, another cause of alting. Crafting must be regulated by time spent to gather mats, not by craft cd.

Sky, blueprints ...  do you want to try to find another CA blueprint? :) and there's another matter about player interaction, and you know very well that most of our mats comes from sciencing equipment, what doesn't take much time.

Maybe i'm really wrong about this, maybe it's really better to encourage players to sit in caves, that way everyone is happier.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: avv on July 22, 2012, 12:47:44 pm
So you rather not visit public locations frequently, because it's boring? Player interaction isn't fun itself? It's easy to craft big amounts of items in one go, but then the whole idea of advanced workbenches in public locations are drained down the pipe. By your logic, it would be better if you could do all that in some cave, waste time to go to advanced workbenches since players visit them so rarely because they can make large amounts of items in public places and not return for a long time, that's why there's no player interaction, wasn't. So you refuse increasing "player interaction" because it's more casual, fuck player interaction, fuck features that makes you go out of your cave. Isn't this what the community has been asking for a long time? Many suggestion revolve around hardcore discussion about how to increase player interaction, now that it's done somehow, it's not good enough ... pfff.

All I know it's not fun. It just isn't. If I've got mats for 10 ca, then I want them now, not in the course of ten hours. Skycast had it right: crafting needs to be regulated with the output of mats. But that don't need cooldown either.
When farming, there's no time to talk to other players so there's no player interaction in first place. How many times have you stopped talking to someone for 20 minutes when you're hauling stuff in town? Mostly you just meet guys named "crafter02" and "Barter" who aren't even interested in talking anyway.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Kelin on July 22, 2012, 12:57:14 pm
From my experience you cannot enforce player interaction, if players want to interact they do it, if not they don't.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: codave on July 22, 2012, 12:58:32 pm
I would consider PvP player interaction.

It seems to me the complaint here, is that it's taking too long to properly... interact with players, in PvP.

If you could gear up for 4 hours of PvP in 2 hours, is that better or worse than gearing up for 2 hours of PvP in 4?

Which scenario has more player interaction?
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Kelin on July 22, 2012, 01:00:07 pm
Definitely the latter (means i prefer gearing up for 2 hours and enjoy 4 hours of PvP).
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: T-888 on July 22, 2012, 01:04:34 pm
All I know it's not fun. It just isn't. If I've got mats for 10 ca, then I want them now, not in the course of ten hours. Skycast had it right: crafting needs to be regulated with the output of mats. But that don't need cooldown either.
When farming, there's no time to talk to other players so there's no player interaction in first place. How many times have you stopped talking to someone for 20 minutes when you're hauling stuff in town? Mostly you just meet guys named "crafter02" and "Barter" who aren't even interested in talking anyway.

No resource is rare in fonline, makes crafting really easy, equipment looses worth. If rare resource for crafting CA is needed to obtain, it still can be calculated x time needed to obtain the resource to craft y items. Now as i said no resource is rare, so 1 hour cooldown works as a regulator for item scarcity, that's a bad solution yes, but there's nothing to replace it in 2238.

For me personally it's less fun to PvP if most items enemy has, i basically swim in those items of how much i have them already. Higher risk/reward is needed for PvP to be exciting, if equipment is too easy to gain = no fun for me.

But that don't need cooldown either.

There is already cooldown(global cooldown), how do you control the output of resources if there's no cooldown? Dog mule+high CW alt and just farm farm farm farm farm, kill dog in some location in your base. Is that fun? If there's random encounters and resources in it with a fixed amount, it's still X amount of time to find Y amount of encounters(only this is a shorter cooldown, and you can still find encounters with multiple windows) So it would be the same to reduce the CD gained from crafting items at workbench.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: avv on July 22, 2012, 01:27:38 pm
No resource is rare in fonline, makes crafting really easy, equipment looses worth. If rare resource for crafting CA is needed to obtain, it still can be calculated x time needed to obtain the resource to craft y items. Now as i said no resource is rare, so 1 hour cooldown works as a regulator for item scarcity, that's a bad solution yes, but there's nothing to replace it in 2238.

Who said there needs to be regulator for item scarcity? Let players regulate themselves.

Quote
For me personally it's less fun to PvP if most items enemy has, i basically swim in those items of how much i have them already.

Top gear is always wanted. The more you have, the more you risk and lose. Then you don't have that much anymore. Besides, even now we have lots of gearless bluesuits spamming themselves. If gear was so easy to get, you'd expect everyone to be in ca without being afraid to lose it but that's not the case.

Quote
There is already cooldown(global cooldown), how do you control the output of resources if there's no cooldown?


By risk. Presented either by players or npcs.
Randomness could also be a solution in this case, it's good for farming. It's more exciting to find random ammounts of materials or even random treasures than always the same stuff.

Quote
Dog mule+high CW alt and just farm farm farm farm farm, kill dog in some location in your base. Is that fun?


Adding cooldowns surely don't make it funnier.

Quote
If there's random encounters and resources in it with a fixed amount, it's still X amount of time to find Y amount of encounters(only this is a shorter cooldown, and you can still find encounters with multiple windows) So it would be the same to reduce the CD gained from crafting items at workbench.

Yes but you can do it as long as you want, which creates a feeling of freedom.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: T-888 on July 22, 2012, 01:37:10 pm
Who said there needs to be regulator for item scarcity? Let players regulate themselves.

What does that mean? Gauss pistol rarity is regulated by it's scarcity, it's a rare item and powerful one, exotic item that involves higher risk/reward when fighting with it.

Top gear is always wanted. The more you have, the more you risk and lose. Then you don't have that much anymore. Besides, even now we have lots of gearless bluesuits spamming themselves. If gear was so easy to get, you'd expect everyone to be in ca without being afraid to lose it but that's not the case.

Invalid argument, there's always is going to be some kind of CD, time needed to gain items, if you could get all equipment for a month in 1 day, that wouldn't be better, even worse. The more equipment you have the less worth it has, if everyone was running around in BA's and avengers only, and those items were too easy to get, no risk/no reward. No point to sell them, trade them, no value in them.

By risk. Presented either by players or npcs.
Randomness could also be a solution in this case, it's good for farming. It's more exciting to find random ammounts of materials or even random treasures than always the same stuff.

you don't understand, it's the same CD only in a different way, you just waste x time to get y items, no matter what you implement. Average time to find x encounters can be calculated, same thing for lockers in encounters, it's just your fooling yourself.
 

Adding cooldowns surely don't make it funnier.

By this logic, it would be much better if there was infinitive amount of resources in mines, with no cooldown for crafting, nothing whatsover, only time needed to haul ore in a dog mule and go to work bench, the shortest "cooldown" possible.

Yes but you can do it as long as you want, which creates a feeling of freedom.

What this has to do with item availability?
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Jytz on July 22, 2012, 01:37:24 pm
Its just pointless to put in crafting timers this late into the game, that is the issue I have I could care less about the timer, its just like crafting BA last wipe. It just seems way too late to implament something like this when the players who have stuck around are super rich and stockpiled.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: T-888 on July 22, 2012, 01:57:38 pm
Super rich and shit like that, in the pace of how fast armors break down, you don't have to worry about someone being ultra wealthy. Not for a long time, trust me.

Crafting timer was in the game since ever.

My point exactly.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Lexx on July 22, 2012, 01:57:55 pm
Its just pointless to put in crafting timers this late into the game, that is the issue I have I could care less about the timer, its just like crafting BA last wipe. It just seems way too late to implament something like this when the players who have stuck around are super rich and stockpiled.

Crafting timer was in the game since ever. We even tried various forms of timers already, see what T-888 wrote a few posts above. If you have a timer to craft items or a timer to find items in encounters- technically it doesn't make a difference, both are timers, you just experience them in a different way.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: T-888 on July 22, 2012, 02:01:22 pm
Damn, it's so nice to see someone understand what i'm talking about.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Jytz on July 22, 2012, 02:08:47 pm
Crafting timer was in the game since ever. We even tried various forms of timers already, see what T-888 wrote a few posts above. If you have a timer to craft items or a timer to find items in encounters- technically it doesn't make a difference, both are timers, you just experience them in a different way.

Well its one extreme to another this type of change brings about frustrations. Its just we had an unlimited crafting timer and then it gets changed to 2 metal armors an hour, that is a huge change. I have no issues with the timers really, but its just strange to bring about such an extreme change.

Another thing is if you don't want us to use thieves to get our gear and super stims may I suggest a change to the super stim recipe and bring back the way shops worked from last wipe? This is another very frustrating thing that we can't trade when gun runners doesn't take 3/4 of things that are farmable.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: T-888 on July 22, 2012, 02:13:46 pm
Well its one extreme to another this type of change brings about frustrations. Its just we had an unlimited crafting timer and then it gets changed to 2 metal armors an hour, that is a huge change. I have no issues with the timers really, but its just strange to bring about such an extreme change.

That will balance out after some time, not so long as you might think.

Another thing is if you don't want us to use thieves to get our gear and super stims may I suggest a change to the super stim recipe and bring back the way shops worked from last wipe? This is another very frustrating thing that we can't trade when gun runners doesn't take 3/4 of things that are farmable.

Make a suggestion, and those who have shitloads of SS and 5mm AP ammo, that will balance out with time too, and let's say SS and 5mm AP ammo are going to be valuable items, harder to obtain. Must play and see how it turns out.

technically it doesn't make a difference, both are timers, you just experience them in a different way.

To point out the obvious, i think current timer and system is better than to just grind encounters like it's done for lockers, wouldn't want to do the same for resources.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: avv on July 22, 2012, 02:19:24 pm
What does that mean? Gauss pistol rarity is regulated by it's scarcity, it's a rare item and powerful one, exotic item that involves higher risk/reward when fighting with it.

It means that the maximum output of stuff is limited by how fast an individual player manages to hoard them. The better logistics, the more stuff. Time available will always measure the winner if everyone crafts at same speed, but if players aren't limited by cooldown someone who is effective and smart has the chance to hoard faster than someone who has more raw free time.

Quote
Invalid argument, there's always is going to be some kind of CD, time needed to gain items, if you could get all equipment for a month in 1 day, that wouldn't be better, even worse. The more equipment you have the less worth it has, if everyone was running around in BA's and avengers only, and those items were too easy to get, no risk/no reward. No point to sell them, trade them, no value in them.

So far we haven't reached this point ever in the history of the game. Except maybe during prewipe madness.

Quote
you don't understand, it's the same CD only in a different way, you just waste x time to get y items, no matter what you implement. Average time to find x encounters can be calculated, same thing for lockers in encounters, it's just your fooling yourself.

But if it's the same cd, what difference does it make? Crafting cooldown is not fun, this hidden gathering CD is more fun so isn't the logical solution in terms of enjoyable gameplay to choose the hidden one?
 
Quote
By this logic, it would be much better if there was infinitive amount of resources in mines, with no cooldown for crafting, nothing whatsover, only time needed to haul ore in a dog mule and go to work bench, the shortest "cooldown" possible.

Unsafe mines have a risk of meeting other players.

Quote
What this has to do with item availability?

It has to do with fun. Item availability can't be balanced because it's always player-dependent. Some have more free time, some don't. Unless you want to regulate the ammount of time every player can play daily, item availability is a joke.
Besides, if something is simply unbearably boring to craft then only the most hardened players will do it and rest will moan because they don't have those items and get pwned. Last session I didn't craft a single BA until the cooldowns got more reasonable. The grind wasn't simply worth it, some still did it but did they have fun doing it?
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Trokanis on July 22, 2012, 02:32:22 pm
Crafting timer is one thing.  Combine said timer with in some cases lack of mats, an the rest of cases the need to trek halfway across the damn world to craft things of any real value and it adds up to absurdity.  I don't want to be locked up in a damn cave, I don't mind a crafting timer, so long as I can get more than 5 f'n electronic parts per trip to make even the most basic of energy items.  (that is just an example not the only reason). 

If this truly is just an attempt to increase player interaction it really won't work, because the players make that interaction damn near impossible.  Even if people come running back (which probably won't happen) all it will do is increase the amount of grief people will have to deal with to craft.  There was a damn Thief noob parked in Gunrunners earlier, sure makes me want to go there and have to open a bunch of screens to craft the stuff I busted my ass to get, yup....  In this game player interaction boils down to, Kill or be killed, Troll or be Trolled, Grief or be Griefed, and the VERY rare, lets actually have a conversation in a public place, which almost always leads to another player coming up and doing any of the previous list. 

The only thing wrong with easy access to 10mm SMGs in the previous seasons was what the players caused.  Removing them from lower leveled areas didn't stop any of the things associated with them, (shop bursters, bluesuit grid campers, ext.) it was just another punishment to decent players based on the actions of noobs.  (and not the only reason why the current crafting system is flawed) 

P.S.  Rework repairing please.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: codave on July 22, 2012, 03:26:59 pm
Crafting timer was in the game since ever. We even tried various forms of timers already, see what T-888 wrote a few posts above. If you have a timer to craft items or a timer to find items in encounters- technically it doesn't make a difference, both are timers, you just experience them in a different way.

Are blueprints timers?  I think so, based on the above post.  If we want to craft Combat Armor, we have to either gather the caps to buy it, or take the time to grind the blueprints.  So far my timer on crafting combat armor is 6 months (and counting).  Same with P90's, Buffout (HQ Chem Comps?), etc.

Assuming I had a CA blueprint, I also have to contend with Advanced Workbenches.  I would consider this a timer as well.  Or at least a limitation.

Then on top of that, there is the global resource depletion.  Not to mention HQ Chem Comps again, or Uranium Ore.  How long is the timer on those items?  When will they stop being depleted?

And now a crafting timer.

It's not the fact that a timer exists that is the problem.  It's how many.  Using the definition Lexx used, I can probably count more than those 4.

It isn't always the change that is the problem.  It's that sometimes the changes don't play nice with one another.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: avv on July 22, 2012, 03:39:33 pm
To be honest the combination of blueprints and crafting cooldown just provided the following: it's best to make crafter alt for each blueprint. Say I craft a combat armor. Timer goes almost to the max. Now it's better to relog to combat helmet crafter instead of waiting the hour. So it's best to divide blueprints to several alts to bypass the timer when crafting multiple items. The cooldown also encourages everyone to find more and more blueprints, because it's best to have 2 combat armor crafters because that means you can craft them twice as fast. So happy hunting and levelling.

All this cooldown does is to make things more time consuming and complex in bad way.

Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: DeputyDope on July 22, 2012, 03:53:10 pm
5 f'n electronic parts per trip to make even the most basic of energy items.
*10.

P.S.  Rework repairing please.

repair is fine as it is. what? you want a cooldown on repairing also?

i agree with everything avv says.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: codave on July 22, 2012, 04:05:14 pm
To be honest the combination of blueprints and crafting cooldown just provided the following: it's best to make crafter alt for each blueprint. Say I craft a combat armor. Timer goes almost to the max. Now it's better to relog to combat helmet crafter instead of waiting the hour. So it's best to divide blueprints to several alts to bypass the timer when crafting multiple items. The cooldown also encourages everyone to find more and more blueprints, because it's best to have 2 combat armor crafters because that means you can craft them twice as fast. So happy hunting and levelling.

All this cooldown does is to make things more time consuming and complex in bad way.

Hooray, more alts.  They may as well re-implement the limitation on crafting professions while they're at it, just to round everything out.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: jacky. on July 22, 2012, 06:21:02 pm
repair - mr fixit support perk doesnt work.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: T-888 on July 23, 2012, 01:55:48 am
It means that the maximum output of stuff is limited by how fast an individual player manages to hoard them. The better logistics, the more stuff. Time available will always measure the winner if everyone crafts at same speed, but if players aren't limited by cooldown someone who is effective and smart has the chance to hoard faster than someone who has more raw free time.
But if it's the same cd, what difference does it make? Crafting cooldown is not fun, this hidden gathering CD is more fun so isn't the logical solution in terms of enjoyable gameplay to choose the hidden one?

Players have always been limited by some sort of "cooldown", you are talking about candy land that doesn't exist, never has, never will. The only difference is how the cooldown is experienced, as lexx said very precisely, finding ore in encounters or a global cooldown for ores in mines, or finding a weapon in encounter like gauss pistol, it's just experiencing the same timer in a different way. Let's say gauss pistol is craftable, need to adjust certain features, chances, values for it to be craftable at the same speed it can be found in encounters, it can be done. Just like it's possible to adjust ores in random encounters to be found at such a difficulty it will match current time needed to make certain amount of items.

By cooldown don't understand only the raw amount of minutes added upon crafting an item, but also the time needed to obtain resources for it, movement between locations (currently more time is added, since we have to move to public places that workbench is relatively far), obtaining blueprints, it could be completing a quest for a rare resource, finding encounters etc. etc. time consumptions. That all just adds together and make the total time needed to get the final product- item. That's how item availability is controlled, player-dependant, yes, i say availability is flexible due to that. Someone who grinds more/spends time, no matter what system he will gain more, can't invent a new wheel, it's already there.

So far we haven't reached this point ever in the history of the game. Except maybe during prewipe madness.

Remove all time consumptions and that will happen.

Unsafe mines have a risk of meeting other players.

Bluesuit CW alts in comparison to a potential force of players that are able to defend themselves. It's what they/you are doing while you meet them, if you are going to carry some iron ore none cares ... if 5 newly crafted MAmk2, that's a different story.


It has to do with fun. Item availability can't be balanced because it's always player-dependent. Some have more free time, some don't. Unless you want to regulate the ammount of time every player can play daily, item availability is a joke.
Besides, if something is simply unbearably boring to craft then only the most hardened players will do it and rest will moan because they don't have those items and get pwned. Last session I didn't craft a single BA until the cooldowns got more reasonable. The grind wasn't simply worth it, some still did it but did they have fun doing it?

Item availability is the difficulty to obtain items, including crafting cooldown, simple solution is to ease it up and there's no problem, if it's too harsh then it encourages abusing/byapssing/cheating, call it whatever you want, but when it's reasonable it shouldn't provoke players to extremes. If it's too harsh, then let's say the cooldown could be experienced differently, like special encounter system that isn't abusable, gauss pistols are relatively hard to get, rare, that is player-dependant and it is controlled.

So if you have some mad ideas about ideal crafting systems, go ahead, share them, none is forcing you to keep quite.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: FrankenStone on July 23, 2012, 02:27:17 am
man t888 u hanging on devs balls , i dont think that this CD bringback is some nice idea but who cares at the end of the day , maybe they change it at next update or not nobody knows the only things were im not happy about is to change something completely and then after some time change it back to the old that makes no sense to me
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: T-888 on July 23, 2012, 02:37:44 am
I do not hang on developer balls. I'd call it common sense.

i dont think that this CD bringback is some nice idea

It is, need to adjust mats for certain items, relax the crafting cooldown itself and it should be pretty fine and cool.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: FrankenStone on July 23, 2012, 02:53:58 am
i dont think so , nothing was wrong with crafting ... like others said here it was always a timer on it because first u need to get materials then u need to get acsess to some adv. workbench and at the last step only was the crafting , with cd all this doesnt bring any effort now its cheaper and better to trade some items u have farmed or from the glow for other items u would have normally crafted without cd . dont forget that bp thing ...

1. BPs - pain in da ass to get some good BPs
2. Gather Material - pain in da ass if u are alone and esspecially for the HQ things , when u are alone !
3. Turn Gathered Stuff into some usefull Materials - pan in da ass , so or so , the first option u have is to deliver the GR package and this will take one day if u start from zero karma (40 minutes or 30minutes timeout i think) or u go to mariposa or toxiccave or at sierra and all 3 are dangerous places ...
4. Crafting - only three words about cooldown - pain in da ass
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: T-888 on July 23, 2012, 03:08:47 am
1. Not intended the current fashion in what they are currently obtained, blueprints added to glow, and with time will be added to quests.
2. Disagree. Playing alone leaves you at a disadvantage(it's been like that forever, just like timer/cooldowns), as an mmo it's supposed that you work together with other players to achieve things ingame, being self-sufficient alone isn't as easy as it was before = player interaction(i know someone will say abuses/cheats but sometimes there's just no need for that if your playing in a faction and gather everything together, just from my own experience). Survival game, stick together or die divided. :)
(http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/6724/disagree.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/17/disagree.jpg/)
(most of that is obtained through sciencing various items from player loot with a max science char, but you see we have 1 that kind of character for the big faction we have)
3. Organize protection, again working together with other players = player interaction. If someone is too lazy to do that, maybe he doesn't deserve the items.
4.
like others said here it was always a timer on it

The crafting system isn't finished in that case, same as traders, the timer was too low in my opinion. By the way i said that.

It's funny how people want to leave this game because their playing it alone, then it's too hard, rather than to adapt. Don't need to be uber-leet PvP ape to just stick together with some players and support each other when it's possible to do so. Ever heard about SQ lumberjack faction? They have mad skills in a way.

Not the game for casuals i guess. The point i don't think anything should be relaxed/made easier because a single player has problems with it.

The only real grind i experienced this wipe was the blueprints, everything else not so much.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Grimmi on July 23, 2012, 08:19:27 am
Now is fucking craft cooldown
i can craft now sometinh about 4 dynamites on hour
PLEASE improve this time to 5 hour sounds be GOOOD
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Trokanis on July 23, 2012, 08:56:04 am
More alting shouldn't be the answer.  With all the other combined 'timers' (blueprint finding, gathering issues, workbench requirements) why add more? 

Off topic about repair.

Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Adestan on July 23, 2012, 01:14:17 pm
New update is comming or what?  ;D
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Uftak on July 23, 2012, 01:22:54 pm
New update is comming or what?  ;D
Yep, they gonna add alt-limit.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: BOS Armorer on July 23, 2012, 03:46:38 pm
Oh ffs let the crafters fucking craft!  first you have to grind out horrible bps, then mine shitless.  Go to an ADv work bench make hq mats.  Then finallly make your fucking goofy gear....   I say there is enough monotony in the whole process to begin with, now you need an army of alts?  Fucking dumb.  Not just dumb, fucking dumb....
This was bad enough pre-wipe with 2 hours of cooldown, but now everything adds more cooldown, AND all of this other stuff. Someone needs either a lot of cash or a week of nonstop grinding to be able to just get blueprints, I have never yet had access to the advanced workbenches, and now there is a strict crafting cooldown? The advanced workbenches were rarely enough used, and those who wouldn't risk Mariposa saved up all their crafting to do it all at once before they lost access to it. Now that's not even possible? And why are AC trolls still running about? While definetely adding improvements, this update still disappoints me...
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Tomowolf on July 23, 2012, 03:54:54 pm
Well , also we got only 4 adv workbenches which we can use, but two of them are camped 24/7 by pks, one needs to get anti-rad thingies and in one you need to run two days in a row with suitcases to get reputation, so fun.
Best thing is that even when we join (bah BoS quest is like bugged since 2011?) BoS or Enclave, they do not have advanced workbench, that is just hilarous shit.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: BOS Armorer on July 23, 2012, 04:13:48 pm
I'm thinking the exactly same. Was gonna make a thread about it but might aswell write it here.

Some items are simply pain in the ass to get, so players choose to abuse them.
Example: nuka cola. It's horribly slow to craft, which was reported and explained. Also its price remained the same as last session, while caps farming was made 10x slower. So nothing was done about the "fair" ways to get nuka. Then there's exploit where nuka could be received rather easily, someone reported it and the exploit disappeared immediately while nothing was done about the way nuka could be received with normal methods. Only tc players have easy access to nuka cola.

There was also a way to get cigarettes for free, but someone reported that too, it got "fixed" and now nobody except tc players can get cigarettes because the fields don't regenerate and it's still damn slow to get even if they would.

Do you realize that his kind of game management simply encourages us players to stay hush hush about abuses?

Another example: enclave isn't so abusive anymore. Well, it is still but guess what? I'm not going to report it before there is some fun and balanced feature to receive avengers and gatling lasers. If the exploit was reported, all that would happen is that the abuse would be shut down but normal method to get those guns would be nowhere to be seen and we players would have to figure a new abuse.

Also 5mm, rockets and superstims from BOS are supposedly harder to get. Not exactly, still exploitable but I'm not going to report that either before there is fun and balanced way to get those items.

So please: Don't shut down abuses before there is fun normal way, accessible to everyone to receive items in question. Don't try to force teamplay, encourage it but don't force it. Don't try to limit players with cooldowns, let players be their own limit. And don't, for heaven's sake make farming more time consuming, like was done with junk. It can be made more dangerous so that players have to risk better equipment or have to travel to pk-infested zones.
Amen, brother. I liked fallout the way it was last session. We are certainly walking on new ground here, but not in the right way at all. I sadly have to agree with all the complaints here. Abuses are being used because non-abusive methods are unfair, crafting was hard enough without this shit, and I think it would still be balanced if you could loot EVERYTHING you killed. Guards are fucking looters, they take anything, let it be lootable, but refreshed like every in-game midnight. And ares mutants, give them more ammo so you dont have an army of unarmed mutants, but let them be lootable. I want a bozar :c It redefines BG completely
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: BOS Armorer on July 23, 2012, 04:28:28 pm
I forsee a time when finding a lone Enclave patrol will be called an 'exploit', and 'fixed'.
I think it IS an exploit. If you actually played Fallout 2, you can see they mean business. You don't go farming them unless you are THE shit. They always travel in groups, and unless you are godlike they RAPED you, and I'm sorry but this gear control seems stupid. Overall with everything....in Fallout 2, everything that made sense to loot was lootable. And how can the devs take out pulse rifles or power armors or vindicators and call them too cheap to implement, when we have AC trolls running around avoiding fire from town guards and anything else, lvl 1 noobs wearing combat armor mark 2 and holding avengers/m60s etc because they found lucky encounters, or people raping everyone with mausers and 10mm pistols? I was followed to an encounter once by someone who shall remain nameless, he shot me in the head for 80 damage knockout despite my chmk2 with a 10mm pistol. Then did 100+ eye shot. And no, it wasn't AP, it was JHP. So at least give all our gear back to make fallout what it was. With all of these updates and everything happening, it feels like you are just trying to censor the game...Anyone else feel this way?
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: BOS Armorer on July 23, 2012, 05:02:29 pm
Armor looting completely changes the value. It makes crafting armors poointless, as people can indeed have carpets of combat armors by just finding a couple encounters. But it is all in horrible condition, so I guess that still leaves armor crafters to be SOMEWHAT useful. Not trying to advertise it or anything, but take a look at FOnline: australia. No matter how hard, every item is craftable with certain skills. Even the power armors. You say it would be too cheap to have PKs in power armor running around? How about CA trolls with camk2 minigunning everyone? There should be power armor training perk, to be able to loot/equip it. Requirments should be high to limit it, idk like 175% repair, 225% science, Member of bos/enclave, 1500+ rep with such? Just a suggestion, but that would be better, with all these other items.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Eternauta on July 23, 2012, 05:04:37 pm
Requirments should be high to limit it, idk like 175% repair, 225% science, Member of bos/enclave, 1500+ rep with such?

Which means alt.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: avv on July 23, 2012, 06:43:52 pm
Players have always been limited by some sort of "cooldown", you are talking about candy land that doesn't exist, never has, never will. The only difference is how the cooldown is experienced, as lexx said very precisely, finding ore in encounters or a global cooldown for ores in mines, or finding a weapon in encounter like gauss pistol, it's just experiencing the same timer in a different way.

So if we had that hidden timer previously during this session, where do we suddenly need the crafting cooldown?

Quote
By cooldown don't understand only the raw amount of minutes added upon crafting an item, but also the time needed to obtain resources for it, movement between locations (currently more time is added, since we have to move to public places that workbench is relatively far), obtaining blueprints, it could be completing a quest for a rare resource, finding encounters etc. etc. time consumptions. That all just adds together and make the total time needed to get the final product- item. That's how item availability is controlled, player-dependant, yes, i say availability is flexible due to that.

But if we have a nice and flexible player-dependent gathering, can't it only be the limit to crafting speed? Did people complain that cooldowns were removed? I can't recall they did. Only major thing players were against in the current crafting was the blueprints.

Quote
Someone who grinds more/spends time, no matter what system he will gain more, can't invent a new wheel, it's already there.

So the crafting timer limits nothing.

Quote
Remove all time consumptions and that will happen.

But it didn't happen during the newest update, so where do we need the crafting cooldown?

Quote
Bluesuit CW alts in comparison to a potential force of players that are able to defend themselves. It's what they/you are doing while you meet them, if you are going to carry some iron ore none cares ... if 5 newly crafted MAmk2, that's a different story.

Murder in unsafe zone happens, that's a cold fact. A gang of 10 probably doesn't swarm a lone farmer but we do have individual players who do nothing but hunt down miners. Unfortunately the danger present in unsafe mines is directly dependent on player ammount.

Quote
So if you have some mad ideas about ideal crafting systems, go ahead, share them, none is forcing you to keep quite.

Now that you ask: Remove crafting cooldown. Nobody asked for it, it just came out of blue. Crafting speed exists in the ammount of time it takes to haul and gather mats. You know it yourself. If it takes me 3 hours to kill enough vc patrols, science their stuff and craft some Cas what's the purpose of additional timer if I already spent 3 hours gathering?
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Jytz on July 23, 2012, 07:15:32 pm
I think it IS an exploit. If you actually played Fallout 2, you can see they mean business. You don't go farming them unless you are THE shit. They always travel in groups, and unless you are godlike they RAPED you, and I'm sorry but this gear control seems stupid. Overall with everything....in Fallout 2, everything that made sense to loot was lootable. And how can the devs take out pulse rifles or power armors or vindicators and call them too cheap to implement, when we have AC trolls running around avoiding fire from town guards and anything else, lvl 1 noobs wearing combat armor mark 2 and holding avengers/m60s etc because they found lucky encounters, or people raping everyone with mausers and 10mm pistols? I was followed to an encounter once by someone who shall remain nameless, he shot me in the head for 80 damage knockout despite my chmk2 with a 10mm pistol. Then did 100+ eye shot. And no, it wasn't AP, it was JHP. So at least give all our gear back to make fallout what it was. With all of these updates and everything happening, it feels like you are just trying to censor the game...Anyone else feel this way?

Fallout 2 had leveling scaling, when you hit level 24 in the game you could kill them becuase you had good perks and gear by that time. There is no level scaling in this game usually you just go straight to floaters and aliens from level 1 - 24. Then when you hit level 24 you still can't farm shit like enclave. Its basically everything well tear you apart to get high tier gear even if you are max level. Most games have some sort of leveling scaling, or have areas you go to based on your level. Not saying this should be in the game but just saying. It is possible to do vault city patrols and rangers solo but only as a big gunner with max hp toughness and super stims, and even those are tough. I personally think if you reach max level you should be able to farm max gear but that is not the case in the game and I'm already used to the fact its not like this. I am not going to whine or complain or fight for this being in the game, but would like to bring up that point. Being level 24 doesn't mean shit on any build you still can't get top gear without a hunting party.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: T-888 on July 23, 2012, 07:53:59 pm
So if we had that hidden timer previously during this session, where do we suddenly need the crafting cooldown?

The cooldown was too low in my opinion, it was like "hey let's go craft 1000 plasma grenades","need couple of hundred CA helmets, sure no problem." Completely spoils the atmosphere to the game for me, there were times when combat armors was rare and cool item to have, now they were just comparable to some fucking paper to make. Face it, it's not hard to obtain resources for equipment. Now if i was a new player, and i pretty well remember when i was a new player, i wouldn't have a hard time obtaining raw materials for equipment now, i wouldn't be able to make carpets and provide logistics for a whole team, but who said that needs to be possible? Distribution of blueprints isn't finished, that's a problem now, so you could say the total cooldown isn't balanced yet.

But if we have a nice and flexible player-dependent gathering, can't it only be the limit to crafting speed? Did people complain that cooldowns were removed? I can't recall they did. Only major thing players were against in the current crafting was the blueprints.

Players never report things that makes playing easier, they don't care of consequences, just like the situation with the stealing. Look at how much 5mm, SS, MFC, Rockets players could get, that was totally unreasonable, those 3 items just lost all worth they had, those items were so much it was used as currency in shops, destroying economy. I'd like for those items to have some worth, you know the possibility of running out of them, then using other weapons to what ammunition is left until more supplies are made, being cost efficient with usage of ammo etc. etc. The biggest problem is the Troll Box this wipe actually, it's too late to fix that.

Unfortunately the danger present in unsafe mines is directly dependent on player ammount.

The community is small, players aren't that much.

If it takes me 3 hours to kill enough vc patrols, science their stuff and craft some Cas what's the purpose of additional timer if I already spent 3 hours gathering?

Maybe it's easier to go to a mine and dig resources directly? ;D seriously.

By the way, i reported that crafting cooldown and scrypior fixed it, because it was a bug and i was reporting bugs. :) Maybe you should go talk with him.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Shapter on July 23, 2012, 07:59:13 pm
Quote
Quote
So if you have some mad ideas about ideal crafting systems, go ahead, share them, none is forcing you to keep quite.

Now that you ask: Remove crafting cooldown. Nobody asked for it, it just came out of blue. Crafting speed exists in the ammount of time it takes to haul and gather mats. You know it yourself. If it takes me 3 hours to kill enough vc patrols, science their stuff and craft some Cas what's the purpose of additional timer if I already spent 3 hours gathering?

I couldn't agree more! It is painful enough to make risky trips just to craft (ex : advanced workbench, blueprints...).
I love the fact that scarcity is a gameplay element of the game but dying with rare items happens! And if we have to play 10 repetitive hours of grinding for 1 hour of fun, the game is clearly unbalanced.

Please dont kill the fun for the sake of realism!
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: BOS Armorer on July 23, 2012, 08:04:44 pm
I said to loot/equip it. No point of making an alt to loot power armor if you cant use it, unless you want to sell out shops. You would not be able to kill power armored people if you created an alt just to loot it. But that's not my point. What I meant is joining the faction, becoming involved, doing quests etc and having decent enough skill to understand the power armor. I mean really whatever items you can have, it is NOT too cheap. I use this as my main example, but cheaper than a pa soldier with a vindicator minigun is an ac troll running around, then bursting you out of nowhere.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: greenthumb on July 23, 2012, 08:31:53 pm
Quote from: avv
If it takes me 3 hours to kill enough vc patrols, science their stuff and craft some Cas what's the purpose of additional timer if I already spent 3 hours gathering?
Maybe it's easier to go to a mine and dig resources directly? ;D seriously.

which mine are you digging for HQ fibers?
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: avv on July 23, 2012, 08:34:27 pm
The cooldown was too low in my opinion, it was like "hey let's go craft 1000 plasma grenades","need couple of hundred CA helmets, sure no problem." Completely spoils the atmosphere to the game for me, there were times when combat armors was rare and cool item to have, now they were just comparable to some fucking paper to make.

Maybe for a guy who plays in a big faction full of powergamers who share everything. In regular pvp not nearly everyone has enough top tier gear to do pvp with. Some turbofarmers have no problems, but for many people CA is still a valuable item. It is valuable for everyone, because looting something means you don't have to craft it.
 
Quote
Face it, it's not hard to obtain resources for equipment.


No it's not, but somehow we got people who still can't manage it. Making it even harder doesn't help at all.

Quote
Distribution of blueprints isn't finished, that's a problem now, so you could say the total cooldown isn't balanced yet.

So how will it end up? Easier CA bps for everyone? Okay, I'll just make my CAcrafters 1-10 and live like before the crafting cd.

Quote
Players never report things that makes playing easier, they don't care of consequences, just like the situation with the stealing. Look at how much 5mm, SS, MFC, Rockets players could get, that was totally unreasonable, those 3 items just lost all worth they had, those items were so much it was used as currency in shops, destroying economy.

You still had to farm them. The stuff didn't drop in your base on its own. I agree it was retarded and no-risk but the rate to receive those items wasn't troubling. Superstims are highly necessary in current pvp and get consumed at massive rate.
And what economy was exactly broken? Shops are full of those items? Shops are nothing more than stuff spawning containers where the first guy who spots a good item gets it. Players will never sell good items in shops, unless there's a reason to do it. Shops are always going to be full of useless crap unless crap.

Quote
By the way, i reported that crafting cooldown and scrypior fixed it, because it was a bug and i was reporting bugs. :) Maybe you should go talk with him.

So what are you talking about? No more crafting cooldown? Can't check because server is down.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: codave on July 23, 2012, 08:37:13 pm
By the way, i reported that crafting cooldown and scrypior fixed it, because it was a bug and i was reporting bugs. :) Maybe you should go talk with him.

So no crafting cool down was a bug?  Funny, I thought it was intentional from the start...
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: T-888 on July 23, 2012, 09:14:32 pm
Maybe for a guy who plays in a big faction full of powergamers who share everything. In regular pvp not nearly everyone has enough top tier gear to do pvp with. Some turbofarmers have no problems, but for many people CA is still a valuable item. It is valuable for everyone, because looting something means you don't have to craft it.

Okay, so the game has to be done more easier for everyone else, is that what you are saying? *T-888 goes check his couple of ten thousand buffouts*

No it's not, but somehow we got people who still can't manage it. Making it even harder doesn't help at all.

High tier items should be high tier items. I wasn't satisfied with previous item availability.

So how will it end up? Easier CA bps for everyone? Okay, I'll just make my CAcrafters 1-10 and live like before the crafting cd.

Yup, unless the crafting cooldown is just relaxed, then the necessity for alts should lower. I think the crafting cooldown should be like 3 times less it was previous session, since blueprints allow the picture perfect no alt for profession and alts obviously allow separate CD, the crafting cooldown needs to be relaxed quite a bit, that's it. I somehow liked it when they done it last session.

You still had to farm them. The stuff didn't drop in your base on its own. I agree it was retarded and no-risk but the rate to receive those items wasn't troubling. Superstims are highly necessary in current pvp and get consumed at massive rate

Developers need to make them craftable in a sensible manner, it was good how it was previous session.

And what economy was exactly broken? Shops are full of those items? Shops are nothing more than stuff spawning containers where the first guy who spots a good item gets it. Players will never sell good items in shops, unless there's a reason to do it. Shops are always going to be full of useless crap unless crap.

When bullets become currency, i'd say something is broken for sure.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: codave on July 23, 2012, 09:18:41 pm
Right now there are a lot of things that are currency that shouldn't be.

Fruit and molotovs are two examples.

Also, it's called Barter for a reason, which is trading one item for another.  So every item is currency, anyway. 

If the value of certain items were adjusted, it wouldn't be too much of an issue.  Tobacco leaves should have never been worth as much as they are.  Neither should fruit, molotovs, 5mm, etc.

If the problem with steal is that shops are overloaded with MFC, 5mm, and rockets... maybe they're worth too much.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: T-888 on July 23, 2012, 09:20:59 pm
Need it like on fallout tactics, the more items of same type you dump on a trader the less value for each next item sold lowers.

Doctor has 500 healing powder, he wants more!!!!

Also, it's called Barter for a reason, which is trading one item for another.  So every item is currency, anyway. 

Bottle caps were supposed to be the wastelands currency. Come on. ;D
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: codave on July 23, 2012, 09:36:17 pm
Need it like on fallout tactics, the more items of same type you dump on a trader the less value for each next item sold lowers.

Doctor has 500 healing powder, he wants more!!!!

Bottle caps were supposed to be the wastelands currency. Come on. ;D

I like this, actually.

As far as bottle caps as currency, that's true.  But I do like that you can trade in items for other items.  I also like that a trader will pay shit for an item, and then charge a hell of a lot more to sell it.  Just like Pawn Shops. 

 ;D
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: DeputyDope on July 24, 2012, 12:10:04 am
you know, i don't get why MFC and 5mm AP ammo shouldn't be used as currency? what? you wanna scroll through pages of 10 mm pistols and other useless items? besides, that ammo you steal will be replaced with items/ammo that is just as easy to get, so basically nothing is solved? except pissing players off of course.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: FrankenStone on July 24, 2012, 02:40:15 am
trading with merchants is fucked up anyway , they rarely have caps . and the problem with the ammo stuff i think is that they want too much for each bullet and rocket and MFC ... last season trading system was fine buit this season even with a 300 percent trader alt its a pain in da ass job ... the only purpose for an trader alt is i guess the trading with HQ drugs that werent obtainable via craft but even then u had to give good stuff away because mist sellers dont wanna have ur 10mm pistol , also strange is that u can trade barleys for a good price ... i mean c mon , why then not 10mm pistols or other crap like last season . the whole idea of changing the barter system was a major fail i guess , devs wanted to force players to trade good stuff but there will always be something wrong with the system ...
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: T-888 on July 24, 2012, 03:06:54 am
that ammo you steal will be replaced with items/ammo that is just as easy to get

Different items, lower tier, less used and those that have less worth, at least should have. Harder to obtain items hold more value, there are considered high-medium-low tier items in the game and tier proportionally holds the items value as how available it is. Upon dumping several ten thousands of armor piercing ammunition in a trader, well that indicates that there's something wrong about the whole picture, simply put that the ammo is too easy to obtain as how valuable it is to the player. Bottle caps are supposed to be the currency, not ammunition witch should be scarce enough for players to not dump it as some garbage in traders in return for free items that aren't that available, or that easy to obtain by just stealing from npc's with no risk. I understand the concept of bartering and accept it, but currently how it was done, i think was quite ridiculous in my opinion.

trading with merchants is fucked up anyway , they rarely have caps . and the problem with the ammo stuff i think is that they want too much for each bullet and rocket and MFC ... last season trading system was fine buit this season even with a 300 percent trader alt its a pain in da ass job ...

Trading system isn't finished, and it's been known for a quite a good while that barter over 150 doesn't add any extra effect.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Trokanis on July 24, 2012, 03:59:42 am
T-888, something you should realize is that the game isn't dynamic.  Just because you and your cronies used every possible best method/*niche* to get everything and tons of it thus making certain aspects of the game seem pointless (like your example of crafting dozens of great items) the rest of the game population didn't, and doesn't do that. 

Did any of the uber build players ever stop to think that the reason why the game is so 'easy' or boring to them is because THEY made it that way.  You use the most uber build you and 13 other people can come up with, maybe add in modded ui's to make them even better and then complain because it's too easy, and cry foul when someone else thinks it might not be that easy.  People make dozens of alts or at the beginning farm certain BP exploits and then whine cause now they can craft whatever they want as much as they want, so of course they don't see any issues when the REST of us have to deal with an added Nerf.

And it seems that sadly a Dev has not spoken up about whether it was intended to nerf this hard, so all we can do is guess.  And continue to give our own opinion, and mine is that a cooldown with the current system is an unneeded addition. 



P.S. Rework repair please.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: DeputyDope on July 24, 2012, 09:11:31 am
wow, water bags dont work on water pipes anymore.

great, how am i gonna give water to my brahmin?
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: JovankaB on July 24, 2012, 09:13:51 am
wow, water bags dont work on water pipes anymore.

great, how am i gonna give water to my brahmin?


Did you try to just click the waterpipes with waterbag in inventory?
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: DeputyDope on July 24, 2012, 09:19:43 am

Did you try to just click the waterpipes with waterbag in inventory?

doesn't work.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Lexx on July 24, 2012, 10:42:22 am
I am pretty sure it works. You just use the waterpipe now, you don't use the waterbag on the waterpipe.

If this doesn't work, then a GM probably has to regenerate the town maps.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: DeputyDope on July 24, 2012, 12:32:25 pm
yeah, i tried 3 alternatives, waterbag on pipe, waterbag + backpack + pipe, and waterbag in INV, and only using the pipe. they didn't work. i tried in my base and at NCR mine. maybe by now it's fixed? i can't play for now so i'll try later.

also what about bases? do i have to call a GM to fix the waterpipes in them?
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Kascin on July 24, 2012, 04:57:50 pm
Waterbag doesn't work for me too
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: DeputyDope on July 24, 2012, 08:24:18 pm
can somebody tell me when there will be cap to AC?
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Uftak on July 24, 2012, 08:59:56 pm
can somebody tell me when there will be cap to AC?
I can, but I'm sure that you ain't goin' to like it.
Oh but it's obvious that jinxed gotta get kick in its butt sooner.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: DeputyDope on July 24, 2012, 10:00:47 pm
I can, but I'm sure that you ain't goin' to like it.
Oh but it's obvious that jinxed gotta get kick in its butt sooner.

and i didn't ask YOUR opinion, i asked for a DEV's opinion.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: JovankaB on July 24, 2012, 10:23:14 pm
I replaced broken waterpipes with new ones in public locations.
Base pipes will probably stay broken.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: greenthumb on July 24, 2012, 10:46:21 pm
i believe there will be update very soon, cooldown for crafting will be removed and reputation will drop/raise by 100pts every day tilll its neutral, also BP system will be fixed.BA,CAMKII,turboplasma,extended laser rifle BPs will be added and supersledge,superstim  BPs removed.

Iam pure reallist.

PS ah i forgot tell you i believe there will be end of world in few months.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: BOS Armorer on July 25, 2012, 02:49:33 am
Jovanka, PLEASE tell me that greenthumb is not bullshiting us and that indeed these fixes will be made to this currently unbearably broken version of FOnline?
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Wichura on July 25, 2012, 07:14:08 am
PLEASE tell me that greenthumb is not bullshiting
i believe there will be update very soon
I'm afraid I can't, sir.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Kool-Aid on July 25, 2012, 01:58:14 pm
NOOOOOOOOOO
WHY CAN'T I MANUALLY TRIGGER DYNAMITE IN MY INVENT ANYMORE TO MIRACULOUSLY SURVIVE ANY EXPLOSION ??

DEVS !!! WHY HAVE YOU DONE THIS TO ME !!!  I WANT MY OLD EXPLOSIVES ABUSES BACK, YOU OWE IT TO ME , FONLINE !!!
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: DeputyDope on July 25, 2012, 04:12:00 pm
NOOOOOOOOOO
WHY CAN'T I MANUALLY TRIGGER DYNAMITE IN MY INVENT ANYMORE TO MIRACULOUSLY SURVIVE ANY EXPLOSION ??

DEVS !!! WHY HAVE YOU DONE THIS TO ME !!!  I WANT MY OLD EXPLOSIVES ABUSES BACK, YOU OWE IT TO ME , FONLINE !!!


dafuq? this server turned into a real lamefest.

not to mention:
- reverting to old base system in which you have to bring a character to base for that character to see the base. fucking pointless. it also encourages dual log. at least make it so if ONE character enters one of your bases, using the base clearance system, that character can see all the bases he is cleared for. wouldn't this make MORE SENSE?
- stealing works like shit now, but crafting STILL isn't a viable source of getting guns&ammo&drugs&armor. not to mention PvE critters critically hitting you 50% of the time.
- shit shovelling doesn't work.
- waterpipes in bases don't work.
- they made unity harder. lol
- bullshit crafting cooldown. (4 dynamites an hour, laaaaameeeeeee)
- invincible bluesuits with 220AC running around. you know, for "fun" pvp.
- even shitty items require advanced workbench. (e.g. AR exp. mag.)
- unlootable NPCs that should be, SUPRISINGLY, LOOTABLE!

thanks you devs for bringing this 220AC jinxed bullshit. because having 240% EW skill and not being able to hit a guy at 5 hexes without your gun blowing up is realistic.

i still wait for an update to fix this non-sense.

but at least the poop distribution in pens works now. HA! best feature evah!!11
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: AtomicWrangler on July 25, 2012, 04:24:05 pm
but at least the poop distribution in pens works now. HA! best feature evah!!11
Hah...why fix the problems...when we can have the shit everywhere?
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Lexx on July 25, 2012, 04:34:59 pm
Quote
- unlootable NPCs that should be, SUPRISINGLY, LOOTABLE!

No. If we say that enemies in location x are unlootable, then they should not be lootable.

Your reward for dealing with the enemies lies in the containers of the location where the enemies are placed and not in the inventory of said enemies. I have no idea why some folks do not understand this simple mechanic.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: T-888 on July 25, 2012, 04:38:04 pm
No. If we say that enemies in location x are unlootable, then they should not be lootable.

Lexx, it's nice that you show your character as a developer, but he has a point.

non-sense.

but at least the poop distribution in pens works now. HA! best feature evah!!11

Existing features aren't done and balanced, what you do is add more. Doesn't make sense, it's like players are asking when new weapons are going to be introduced in the game, the answer is when the current system is balanced. Is someone balancing something? Nope, better to add new features.

I'm just saying ... no need to take it personally.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Tomowolf on July 25, 2012, 04:42:29 pm
Quote
- shit shovelling doesn't work.
It works, and now you can gain fortune on this "shitty buisness".
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: DeputyDope on July 25, 2012, 04:44:34 pm
No. If we say that enemies in location x are unlootable, then they should not be lootable.

Your reward for dealing with the enemies lies in the containers of the location where the enemies are placed and not in the inventory of said enemies. I have no idea why some folks do not understand this simple mechanic.

but what is the FUCKING POINT of this mechanic? does it screw up the game's already screwed up economy if i loot a flamer or a minigun from an enemy i JUST KILLED? i understand the point of this mechanic in the case of town guards that carry loads of items, or even in boss-type enemies with rare items that shouldn't be used by anyone (such as frank horrigan or the master). but in here? what is the point? tell me.

Quote from: T-888
Existing features aren't done and balanced, what you do is add more. Doesn't make sense, it's like players are asking when new weapons are going to be introduced in the game, the answer is when the current system is balanced. Is someone balancing something? Nope, better to add new features.

i agree with everything said here.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Lexx on July 25, 2012, 04:56:24 pm
Quote
but what is the FUCKING POINT of this mechanic? does it screw up the game's already screwed up economy if i loot a flamer or a minigun from an enemy i JUST KILLED?

Yes.

Just because the economy is garbage now, it doesn't mean we shouldn't try to change that.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: chocolate_chip_cookies on July 25, 2012, 05:06:00 pm
Honestly, I think none of the quests are worth doing. Not even the gunrunners quest.
Maybe if the BPs in the gunrunner quest were random I would do it over and over again until I found the BPs I want.



I'm still waiting for a quest that's fun to do and with a useful reward.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: falloutdude on July 25, 2012, 05:06:10 pm
Yes.

Just because the economy is garbage now, it doesn't mean we shouldn't try to change that.
its too late to change it. maybe if you did not realize but everyone in tc has tons of drugs and ammos.
if you really want to change anything in this game you should you know actually try to make the game fun. stop making shit updates where you nerf the things we like to be shitty and then nerf the troll things we hate like ac trolls and make them powerfull. please think about things before you do them and stop updateing with random nerfs. btw stop making us make new builds every update because your nerfing shit.  stuff like that is for a wipe not for a update in the middle of a fucking season.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: DeputyDope on July 25, 2012, 05:06:30 pm
Yes.

Just because the economy is garbage now, it doesn't mean we shouldn't try to change that.

but this isn't the thing that screws up the game's economy. forcing people to play with invincible bluesuits because all other builds are useless, THIS is screwing the economy. and i've said it before and i'll say it again, and many others said it before me. if there is a way to get items, either through grinding or through abuse, people WILL find a way. stop wasting YOUR time and EVERYONE ELSE's time to try and fix these tiny exploits. because these tiny exploits are what make this game fun. also i don't see who sells miniguns or rocket launchers in shops? wouldn't people use them for PVP instead? that's what I would do.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: T-888 on July 25, 2012, 05:12:01 pm
Maybe it's the players fault in a way, as testers. I see a lot of suggestions when players just want new things, new features, new this and that, maybe players should focus more on existing feature improvements and solutions for them, more constructive feedback, not just some whine on the update change log topic. I imagine it could be quite confusing to distinguish the real problems and implement solutions for them, if players act as children and are just plain vulgar to demand changes out of blue because they don't like something. I understand as developers you don't have time to play this game, if i wasn't loud and consistent about to introduce new changes for critical modifiers/critical bursters on an actual topic where it was discussed, i am not sure if someone would recognize it as a problem and when next update would hit, the response from the community would be "wtf y stupid no fix for critical bursters?" Though at the same time suggestions for new features appear ... well yeah.

its too late to change it. maybe if you did not realize but everyone in tc has tons of drugs and ammos.

So maybe you should make a topic and push forward this issue, no? Make sure the problem is understood and acknowledged.

Just look at the current season, all these exploits sent economy into void.
We're closing them off, when there's no more major ones we'll fix the damage done.

Just a reminder.

Now do you understand? Better do you comply?

Mother of god, it's been HOW MUCH TIME? and nobody has made a topic about the broken TC box? Shit, yes, it's the developers fault!!!!

Load of bullshit.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Lexx on July 25, 2012, 05:54:38 pm
its too late to change it. maybe if you did not realize but everyone in tc has tons of drugs and ammos.

Some day there will be a wipe again, and then all is gone.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: jacky. on July 25, 2012, 06:19:58 pm
wipe ?:D hahaha after 2years with 50players on server ;]
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: greenthumb on July 25, 2012, 08:57:02 pm
Quote
but what is the FUCKING POINT of this mechanic? does it screw up the game's already screwed up economy if i loot a flamer or a minigun from an enemy i JUST KILLED?
Yes.

Just because the economy is garbage now, it doesn't mean we shouldn't try to change that.

If you have ideas about complex fonline world which works anyway, i would like to know what are your ideas, becouse we can see only actual state of game, and all our ideas are based on it. Mostly players know what would be good update without eminent negative effects on game. But i also understand this is not way you want game develop, or you have your own ideas which we DONT know, so we are scaried,angry,bored...

i believe you will make only  good thing if you apply tool to improve communication between you(developers) and us(players).
http://fodev.net/forum/index.php/topic,25003.0.html
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: LeMark on July 25, 2012, 09:18:52 pm
Some day there will be a wipe again, and then all is gone.

The faster will be the better  ;D

Maybe just fix all bugged thing and wipe just to see how what we have right now will work after a fresh start... The problem with last 2 wipes it is they come with many new thing and many new bugs / exploit and the first 2 weeks (the time where we can abuse of a lot of exploit) destroy the whole session...
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Uftak on July 25, 2012, 09:34:23 pm
Maybe just fix all bugged thing and wipe just to see how what we have right now will work after a fresh start.
A goddamn good suggestion.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: T-888 on July 25, 2012, 10:37:09 pm
The faster will be the better  ;D

Maybe just fix all bugged thing and wipe just to see how what we have right now will work after a fresh start.

Sounds nice indeed, fix exploits, polish some features on economy, like less stuff from TC box current amount of items distributed are 9000% too much and i ain't kidding. Then wipe, continue to work on the server.

Glow now has blueprints, i'd love to see glow control from start of wipe. :)
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: avv on July 25, 2012, 10:51:09 pm
Sounds nice indeed, fix exploits, polish some features on economy, like less stuff from TC box current amount of items distributed are 9000% too much and i ain't kidding. Then wipe, continue to work on the server.

Glow now has blueprints, i'd love to see glow control from start of wipe. :)

Another one month of farming before starting pvp. Whatever, there are still unreported abuses. I suggest to fix some bugs and imbalances, the stuff people abused will run dry eventually and they will be merged with the common gameplay.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Tomowolf on July 25, 2012, 10:56:33 pm
Whatever, there are still unreported abuses.
Yes, and without encouraging players to report them, any nerfs/updates won't change anything and we'll have another economy broken in next session in first days.
Something need changes, and community should be first.
I suggest trying to add some system which would encourage players to report (reward them with something, not only with nerfs, please) those abusive bugs (PA, Highwayman, caps ,CA, anything, rare item, ???).
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: manero on July 25, 2012, 11:01:05 pm
I thought the worst thing i saw in fo2238 was silent death + plasma nades but i was wrong. High ac + jinxed builds are true pain in the ass. There is no point to enter new reno because these noobs are everywhere. Yes i know, i can kill them but for what? I will lost precious ammo(nerfed stealing) and they will come back in 2 minutes.  ???

FO2238 6th season - Troll season.

Silent death lamers, heavy handed unarmed trolls, high ac jinxed retards. Wtf?
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Sarakin on July 25, 2012, 11:51:55 pm
I suggest trying to add some system which would encourage players to report
What about a forum title ? Bughunter ? Anything...
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: T-888 on July 26, 2012, 12:13:41 am
Another one month of farming before starting pvp. Whatever, there are still unreported abuses. I suggest to fix some bugs and imbalances, the stuff people abused will run dry eventually and they will be merged with the common gameplay.

Yeah, but some things aren't abused and won't run out as you imagine, Troll box from TC that decides to spawn couple of ten thousand advanced super burn mixes, gold nuggets, stimpacks, ammunition, drugs, drugs will never end. These items aren't going anywhere for a very long long time due to their amount. :)
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: jacky. on July 26, 2012, 12:57:51 am
Yes, and without encouraging players to report them, any nerfs/updates won't change anything and we'll have another economy broken in next session in first days.
Something need changes, and community should be first.
I suggest trying to add some system which would encourage players to report (reward them with something, not only with nerfs, please) those abusive bugs (PA, Highwayman, caps ,CA, anything, rare item, ???).

pa? die in it and u will have nice pale of junk
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: likeyoucare on July 26, 2012, 01:43:23 am
"  :'( tons of drugs, tc sux, silent death trolls mimimimimi we want wipeee!  :'( "
 
*server wipe*

"Oh now everything will be ok! Let's start from the beginning... wait... sneakin trolls again?! I'm poor and when everybody around are rich?! Snipers owns my fucked bg?! I'm too lazy to farm ammo?! When wipe??? Mimimimiimimimi we waaant wipee  :'( :'("
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Keksz on July 26, 2012, 03:04:11 am
"  :'( tons of drugs, tc sux, silent death trolls mimimimimi we want wipeee!  :'( "
 
*server wipe*

"Oh now everything will be ok! Let's start from the beginning... wait... sneakin trolls again?! I'm poor and when everybody around are rich?! Snipers owns my fucked bg?! I'm too lazy to farm ammo?! When wipe??? Mimimimiimimimi we waaant wipee  :'( :'("

Lol ture story :DDD
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: FrankenStone on July 26, 2012, 03:12:30 am
id like the idea about getting are stuff for exploit reporting , that would be cool and i can imagine that it would work fine
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: BOS Armorer on July 26, 2012, 03:34:44 am
Lol the problem is people would exploit the f*ckballs out of it until they have a stockpile, THEN report it :) Who wouldn't like BOTH a highwayman filled with power armors AND a carpet of avengers/bozars/p90s/plasma rifles/whatever the fuck you people like to farm?
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: avv on July 26, 2012, 08:30:06 am
FO2238 6th season - Troll season.

Silent death lamers, heavy handed unarmed trolls, high ac jinxed retards. Wtf?

Agreed. People are worried about economy when there are builds that can operate without any economy, without any gear. Why limit stuff if players don't even need it?
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: manero on July 26, 2012, 08:35:50 am
Agreed. People are worried about economy when there are builds that can operate without any economy, without any gear. Why limit stuff if players don't even need it?

This shows how little is developers knowledge about their own game.

Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Trokanis on July 26, 2012, 08:40:10 am
I know that the Devs are tired of many of the complaints but there is a fair amount of constructive ideas out there.  Is it really a bad thing for players to get items?  Right now you can barely maintain any of the good items players may have anyhow. 

There were unforeseen issues with fixes for broken parts of the game, that happens in any beta, but I would like to know have the Dev's decided it's just not worth trying to help the player base?  A dev posted elsewhere that basically none of the actual testing the players do matters, only whatever the Dev's want to do and to hell with whether it works or not.  *They didn't say it exactly that way but the point came across as 'players don't matter and Dev's don't care'*  I honestly don't believe that, and figure because of the overwhelming wave of whining about things both important and not, that that Dev may have had a bad day.  I do know that I and a few other dedicated players actually try and test things out on the game along with playing it, does that mean my opinion should count more than others?  NO, but if the work we do to try and help you guys with ideas really doesn't matter, it would be nice to know.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: TKs-KaBoom on July 26, 2012, 09:12:19 am
I know that the Devs are tired of many of the complaints but there is a fair amount of constructive ideas out there.  Is it really a bad thing for players to get items?  Right now you can barely maintain any of the good items players may have anyhow. 

There were unforeseen issues with fixes for broken parts of the game, that happens in any beta, but I would like to know have the Dev's decided it's just not worth trying to help the player base?  A dev posted elsewhere that basically none of the actual testing the players do matters, only whatever the Dev's want to do and to hell with whether it works or not.  *They didn't say it exactly that way but the point came across as 'players don't matter and Dev's don't care'*  I honestly don't believe that, and figure because of the overwhelming wave of whining about things both important and not, that that Dev may have had a bad day.  I do know that I and a few other dedicated players actually try and test things out on the game along with playing it, does that mean my opinion should count more than others?  NO, but if the work we do to try and help you guys with ideas really doesn't matter, it would be nice to know.

well i think you should believe, if you ask them they will tell you as much just like the gms will tell you they don't care either. 
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Jack Wagon on July 26, 2012, 09:37:32 am
blah blah blah -snip-

Well what do they expect they nerf things that many players do in the game and expect us to dance around and be happy?

They basically went "ok well you can now do all your crafting on one alt" then everybody just made a single crafter went along fine with it for months on end. Now they go ok we are nerfing everything players do to obtain items and now you need to go create more alts. That is one frustration I can understand and why people complain.

But yes I do get the impression they don't play their own game, and if they do its probably for 5 minutes. I honestly would like to see a developer or some GM try to create a level 1 blue suit and try to level it to 24 with no GM commands or try to obtain gear and craft and see how they like it. But we know that won't happen. I have played this since the first hour of the wipe, and its not fun being blue suit no gear nothing and trying to make your way up with no help what so ever.

I really want them to try this so here is my challenge the developer team and GMS:

Play this game start with a level 1 try to get a tent get items, try to get a base, level this character to 24 and then try to at least supply it for one day, then maybe just maybe they well understand our frustration. This is my challenge to the developer team, then maybe they well understand why we complain and get annoyed with such changes to their game.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Tomowolf on July 26, 2012, 10:01:39 am
Play this game start with a level 1 try to get a tent get items, try to get a base, level this character to 24 and then try to at least supply it for one day, then maybe just maybe they well understand our frustration. This is my challenge to the developer team, then maybe they well understand why we complain and get annoyed with such changes to their game.
They'll get killed by PK, and nerfing again will start :D.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: DeputyDope on July 26, 2012, 10:28:04 am
They'll get killed by PK, and nerfing again will start :D.

no wonder there was some douchebag who was whining that his 1 EN (!!!!!!!) character isn't strong enough and that devs should boost 1 EN characters. because most of this game's suggestions come from a bunch of selfish assholes that suggest stuff ONLY to fit their playing style.

but it's also the dev's fault for not communicating to the players WHAT they're working on. i never seen ONE topic that has official posts from devs saying what they're DOING or what they INTEND to do (if there is one, can you please link it?).  because honestly i am SICK AND TIRED of seeing one or more of my characters being useless after updates or after new features get added. that happened WAY too many times for me. and i think for other people too.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Lexx on July 26, 2012, 10:51:09 am
Well, nobody is brave enough to do such a thread, because the first 10 pages will be about how much devs suck and that everything is shit and the remaining pages, before the thread is locked, will be a random flamewar.

But beside this, there was a time where we communicated such stuff on our blog.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: avv on July 26, 2012, 10:59:50 am
Well, nobody is brave enough to do such a thread, because the first 10 pages will be about how much devs suck and that everything is shit and the remaining pages, before the thread is locked, will be a random flamewar.

But you only need to state what's being worked on and what's being planned. If you had asked the players before removing ac cap, we could have been spared from lots of grief. Then again of course some clueless people will say nothing bad will happen and limitless ac is fine. Asking players for feedback depends on who you ask.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Jack Wagon on July 26, 2012, 11:13:43 am
But you only need to state what's being worked on and what's being planned. If you had asked the players before removing ac cap, we could have been spared from lots of grief. Then again of course some clueless people will say nothing bad will happen and limitless ac is fine. Asking players for feedback depends on who you ask.

No no they have had enough feed back from players, we have played and test this game long enough it is time for them to do it themselves. So I still put my challenge out there and would like a thread or some blog about the developers experience starting level 1 and trying to make their way up to having a base and crafting and obtaining a few top noche items. Also the rule of this challenge, no begging other players for brahmin hides for the first tent. I want them to experience the game way I experienced it from the first hour of the wipe, blue suit no other players to give you brahmin hides and trying to make their way to where we are now. Is this not a good challenge? I am not trolling I really want you guys from the developer team to try this. Then maybe we won't say such nasty things when you insult everybody saying we whine and cry baby too much?
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Wiktor_pl on July 26, 2012, 11:17:35 am
Well, nobody is brave enough to do such a thread, because the first 10 pages will be about how much devs suck and that everything is shit and the remaining pages, before the thread is locked, will be a random flamewar.

Well, it is true that players know the game from the other side than you and it can be valuable for you.
For ex., if you would said about planned upcoming AC cap removal, problem with 220AC trolls could be discovered (and i think most probably would be discovered) before even implementing it ingame - cause everyone would start to check by using FCP what kind of chars you can possibly build with this feature and you, devs, would be warned - less time wasted.

I know that you got your own ideas etc., but sometimes its good to have someone who look "from the other side". Isnt your purpose is to make this game as best as it is possible?
Its you working on this game and its your child, nobody can tell you how to raise your kid, but if you will start keep your child at home isolated it will become weird and sociopathic. :D
But beside this, there was a time where we communicated such stuff on our blog.
Whats the problem with getting these good times back?:))

About trolls and flamers: well, Moderators should delete every posts that dont bring any ideas and is made only to flame and whine.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Trokanis on July 26, 2012, 12:13:06 pm
I don't for a second believe the Dev's suck.  I know that no one can see every possible outcome of changes to a game.  The Dev's do this in their free time, but there will always be noobs who want to blame everything on someone.  I just wish the Dev's could take a deep breath and get back to the old days when communication actually worked.  I've seen many good ideas, *and no not all of them mine* get lost in a pile of troll/flame/noob BS which is not fair to the person who thought it up or the Dev's who might have wanted to look at it. 

The Changelog this refers to is proof the Dev's at least try and see through all the BS, and as much as some of us including me would like instant fixes to things, that just isn't reasonable.  I really don't want to wait til next wipe to have some of the things fixed, but I am willing to be patient for those who can't just drop everything to work on this game.  I just think it would be helpful if we had a little bit more chatter between the Dev's and us to know if either something suggested or a topic we're talking about just isn't ever gonna happen or not.  That way those of us who actually care can either find a new solution to whatever the topic was or move on.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: T-888 on July 26, 2012, 12:33:50 pm
Well, nobody is brave enough to do such a thread, because the first 10 pages will be about how much devs suck and that everything is shit and the remaining pages, before the thread is locked, will be a random flamewar.

But beside this, there was a time where we communicated such stuff on our blog.
But you only need to state what's being worked on and what's being planned.

Players can discuss work being done on separate topics, that could save you some time implementing features without major flaws that otherwise would need extra work to balance out, think of it as an investment, you spend a little bit of time providing some comments on what is getting done and profit in long term. :)
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: avv on July 26, 2012, 12:48:06 pm
For example when Solar revealed that tc could have to do with herding brahmins or doing pve to take the town, it was shot down because tc players didn't want to do those things. Lots of work spared.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Lexx on July 26, 2012, 01:41:07 pm
I never even heard of that tc idea before now.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: BOS Armorer on July 26, 2012, 01:44:35 pm
Damnit, if the devs never heard it, someone must have started bullsh*tting around  :P
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Shangalar on July 26, 2012, 01:45:31 pm
If devs dont even talk with each other, people, don't expect them to talk with you xD
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Lexx on July 26, 2012, 01:52:31 pm
We talk with each other, but the above mentioned idea could also have been something Solar was just toying around with. We all have such ideas, but never do anything serious with it.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Shangalar on July 26, 2012, 02:18:01 pm
Many people would answer that they really hope he was just kidding :D
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: naossano on July 26, 2012, 02:30:48 pm
To bad we have not the playerbase that would suit to dev ideas.
This TC system would be awesome and immersive.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: BOS Armorer on July 26, 2012, 06:19:05 pm
Heh. Devs, why exactly do you nerf random things? Not sure whether it's that or just luck, but i don't get half as much stuff from sciencing on the same char as i used to...but some of the other ideas are good. Problem is, not many of the good ideas MAKE it into the game  ;) While there is still no AC cap, I may as well go play around with an ac troll, see what happens
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: McBorn on July 26, 2012, 09:08:31 pm
It seems, that you lose people again. GJ
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Horatio on July 28, 2012, 01:50:48 pm
All of a sudden the FOnline.exe stopped working, while the previous version was fine.
Are you going to update?
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: JovankaB on July 28, 2012, 01:54:12 pm
All of a sudden the FOnline.exe stopped working, while the previous version was fine.
Are you going to update?

Did you try CLEAN INSTALLATION of my version of client from here?:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3880395/2238/FOnline2238.zip
note: this file was updated a few days after update.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Horatio on July 28, 2012, 01:58:48 pm
Thanks. Wasn't on forums for a while.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: JovankaB on July 28, 2012, 02:30:53 pm
Thanks. Wasn't on forums for a while.

So it works now?
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: McBorn on July 28, 2012, 10:14:43 pm
This game is a piece of s**t, reducing the acquisition of equipment for a "better interactivity" between the players, AC trolls everywhere impossible to kill them, impossible to get some better stuff and when we have finaly one fight for a week (not as often as before, not many people play) the server crashes. No one knows for how long time and so people leaving and leaving.  Actually i would like invite the last age (yes WIPE), which was more fun then this retarded age. You can try to create your some stupid experiments to another testing server, where people will be always able to come and solve these ideas. If they are satisfied, it means that the feature can be launch into the game, if not, dont give this element into the game. It's really easy for all. Just let us something stable finaly, Jesus Christ!
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: BOS Armorer on July 28, 2012, 10:30:34 pm
Some errrr very strong words...but I'm afraid I have to agree, we as the FOnline players are now merely test subjects, many people's items, builds, or strategies have been destroyed because of their lost value. And yes, strategies. Like crippling or stealing high level encs *cough* bos enclave *cough* which has also been nerfed. Despite some things being better here, I would GLADLY go back to the previous session. Back then, armor actually had value, so did high tier crafters...now noobs are either blusuits or wearing cas. As for testing, I'm sure you could get other guinea pigs than us  :(
Not to mention the server being off half the time these days :'(
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Wichura on July 28, 2012, 11:27:39 pm
You can try to create your some stupid experiments to another testing server, where people will be always able to come and solve these ideas. If they are satisfied, it means that the feature can be launch into the game, if not, dont give this element into the game. It's really easy for all.
"Waaaah these focking carebears and asslickers got that dumb idea what the fuck!1111" - this causes your "testing server" idea.
Besides it IS testing server, kind sire. Open BETA Testing, deal with it.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Alexandrite on July 28, 2012, 11:38:04 pm
This game is a piece of s**t, reducing the acquisition of equipment for a "better interactivity" between the players, AC trolls everywhere impossible to kill them, impossible to get some better stuff and when we have finaly one fight for a week (not as often as before, not many people play) the server crashes. No one knows for how long time and so people leaving and leaving.  Actually i would like invite the last age (yes WIPE), which was more fun then this retarded age. You can try to create your some stupid experiments to another testing server, where people will be always able to come and solve these ideas. If they are satisfied, it means that the feature can be launch into the game, if not, dont give this element into the game. It's really easy for all. Just let us something stable finaly, Jesus Christ!

F*** off, this game is probably one of the best I've played, I'd like to see you make your own game by yourself... and these moderators and devs are working hard, give em a chance bro...
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Uftak on July 29, 2012, 12:11:14 am
give em a chance bro...
I would not call that ungrateful bosh'tet a bro, if ya ask me.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: racoon on July 29, 2012, 01:34:15 am
i like this session. with my 220ac jinxed troll i can rush whole gang and kill some of them if lucky using sharpened spear. also looting high tier gear never was so funny (gangs chasing me coz i looted their gauss). trolling never was so easy. also silo is a big joke. high ac makes mutants flee so 2nd player just lockpick all lockers. you can do it alone without horde of bg's. nerfed sneakers: yeah do char with 10 int and skilled and put sneak to 300% so players will see you from 25 hexes. good job devs! all those features are amazing! also jovanka, dont forget to fix brahmins poop rate because its most important right now.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: ToxiCAVE on July 29, 2012, 01:34:33 am
chance? ok...np but if they will just listen to players and not only their ideas...hey devs lest fuck up all their builds and lets let them use ac trolls and maby next time auto instant mele builds with 300% mele skill. and lets nerf all what is keeping people here...hehehe
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: T-888 on July 29, 2012, 02:19:29 am
yeah do char with 10 int and skilled and put sneak to 300% so players will see you from 25 hexes. good job devs!


What is wrong with that? Previous session you had to actually "invest" more effort to sneak around since snipers could see you from even farther range than that.

...

Random gibberish as always. Toxic ... cave man, did you try to use your head again?

You can try to create your some stupid experiments to another testing server, where people will be always able to come and solve these ideas.

Candy land doesn't exist, never has, never will.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: JovankaB on July 29, 2012, 02:49:35 am
also jovanka, dont forget to fix brahmins poop rate because its most important right now

No offense, but you won't tell me what to do in my free time :)
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Alexandrite on July 29, 2012, 02:57:55 am
No offense, but you won't tell me what to do in my free time :)

Lol Jovanka pwnt

(http://ts1.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=4581592594121704&id=b570a52efa3b06420cdd6336d1ad08da)
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: BOS Armorer on July 29, 2012, 03:17:02 am
Lol Jovanka pwnt

(http://ts1.mm.bing.net/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=4581592594121704&id=b570a52efa3b06420cdd6336d1ad08da)
haha. too true :3 also, im sorry kinda new to forums, looked around a bit and cant find, where do i report exploits found?
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Alexandrite on July 29, 2012, 03:22:06 am
haha. too true :3 also, im sorry kinda new to forums, looked around a bit and cant find, where do i report exploits found?

I think the Bug Section, or the bug tracker thread, not sure...
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: JovankaB on July 29, 2012, 03:29:06 am
haha. too true :3 also, im sorry kinda new to forums, looked around a bit and cant find, where do i report exploits found?

1. Go to http://bugs.fonline2238.net/ and login with forum name and password.
2. Go to "New Ticket", fill the form and make sure sensitive option is checked.
3. Click the Create ticket button.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: BOS Armorer on July 29, 2012, 05:23:10 am
ok thnx
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: X_Treme on July 30, 2012, 02:57:51 am
Explorer perk question

so do you need to be marked on the map the location of the raiders?
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Lexx on July 30, 2012, 08:27:06 am
No. Only main cities.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Mike Crosser on July 30, 2012, 10:34:25 am
Explorer perk question

so do you need to be marked on the map the location of the raiders?
Also are Mines necessary ?
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Johnny Nuclear on July 30, 2012, 02:00:22 pm
Also are Mines necessary ?

No. Only main cities.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: naossano on July 30, 2012, 07:11:14 pm
I thought train station were included.

By the way, the brahmin stuff is awesome. More caps and xp for noobs. More unpredictability from brahmins than can go anywhere in your base. I just hope my gangmates won't kill them, for crapping anywhere....
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: JovankaB on July 30, 2012, 07:35:53 pm
I thought train station were included.

To stop all speculations: You must have visible on map: all biggest circles, Adytum, all train stations.


Quote
By the way, the brahmin stuff is awesome. More caps and xp for noobs. More unpredictability from brahmins than can go anywhere in your base. I just hope my gangmates won't kill them, for crapping anywhere....

I thought about adding using shovel on brahmin to make it go back to the pen :P (you would have to open the pen).
I will also probably nerf rate of poo in bases.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Killer Rabbit on July 30, 2012, 10:32:36 pm
omg...you even want to nerf poo? last bastion on pve and rpg players...;/
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: T-888 on July 30, 2012, 10:46:41 pm
When does the cow shit? Soon my friend, soon.

I thought about adding using shovel on brahmin to make it go back to the pen :P (you would have to open the pen).

Just few questions that popped into my mind while i was making my tea, do you like working on such unimportant, unnecessary features, spending time etc. etc? Do you think before you start working on something if the players would even want that feature, or maybe you want that feature? Ask yourself that question. Do you consider some priorities or you just you know, do what you want, whenever you want, whatever you want?
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Mike Crosser on July 30, 2012, 10:51:28 pm
omg...you even want to nerf poo? last bastion on pve and rpg players...;/
Didn't you quit?
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: BenKain on July 30, 2012, 11:12:47 pm
Just few questions that popped into my mind while i was making my tea, do you like working on such unimportant, unnecessary features, spending time etc. etc? Do you think before you start working on something if the players would even want that feature, or maybe you want that feature? Ask yourself that question. Do you consider some priorities or you just you know, do what you want, whenever you want, whatever you want?

^This. Continuing to make the game perpetually worse...

Did anyone actually stop and have a conversation about it?
Q: "What would make this game entertaining, engaging, and exciting?!"
A: "MOAR SHIZA!

Yeah, right. Maybe we should work on features that people are going to use, and enjoy...
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: BOS Armorer on July 30, 2012, 11:15:15 pm
When does the cow shit? Soon my friend, soon.

Just few questions that popped into my mind while i was making my tea, do you like working on such unimportant, unnecessary features, spending time etc. etc? Do you think before you start working on something if the players would even want that feature, or maybe you want that feature? Ask yourself that question. Do you consider some priorities or you just you know, do what you want, whenever you want, whatever you want?
T-888, please stop being negative or bitching about being everything. Just because you and your friends grind until you have a base carpeted with high tier gear and are all level 24 5 days after the wipe does not mean everyone else does. Some people do need to shovel poo because they do not happen to be as rich as you, or because they cannot take on enclave patrols single handedly. Pushing a brahmin back into the pen is not a bad idea either
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: BenKain on July 30, 2012, 11:21:25 pm
Or you could craft to become rich.... Oh wait... Almost forgot...
Only way to make money now is TC and Shoveling....
Both are pretty shitty prospects....
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: greenthumb on July 30, 2012, 11:30:07 pm
T-888, please stop being negative or bitching about being everything. Just because you and your friends grind until you have a base carpeted with high tier gear and are all level 24 5 days after the wipe does not mean everyone else does. Some people do need to shovel poo because they do not happen to be as rich as you, or because they cannot take on enclave patrols single handedly. Pushing a brahmin back into the pen is not a bad idea either

Well, i like you all, also devs. So lets love each other and speak to each other.
I believe that poo thing is good enough now, not need to nerf. noob can earn up to 1000 XP per few days on this. T888 is maybe right, developers should read what players needs. Thats all. Iam looking the way i can make players satisified as much as developer can be satisified by satisifying players. Only problem is communication. But bug tracker is also good step and i beileve there will be much more good steps.

I suggest to create also tool which provide more knowledge about devs work. This might improve cooperation very well.

Love you people <3
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: greenthumb on July 30, 2012, 11:33:17 pm
Ben you are not right. you can see onlty truth you want to see. Let see what see others. Still there are many thing how you can earn many caps and stuff. What you need is to spend your time on it
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: T-888 on July 30, 2012, 11:33:26 pm
Yeah, right. Maybe we should work on features that people are going to use, and enjoy...

Activities, i call them. Quests aren't included, those i just don't see as activities most of the time unless repeatable and rewarding to complete, most quests aren't made that way so you just complete them once or twice and get bored of them or they become some grind for early levels and just fast clicking through dialog options because you already know what the npc will tell you. Activities, like participating in some caravan system, where players go into out of the wastes and meet other players as their guarding their caravan, player interaction etc. etc. now that is an activity and that is something this game lacks. Sure players can go out in the wastes and "pretend" they have a caravan, that's never restricted and there's nothing wrong about that, but at what cost and risk ... hell some of the developers should do a caravan run of their own, stuff it full of stuff, be friendly to players, not shoot first, try to trade then observe the results how useless it's to try.

T-888, please stop being negative or bitching about being everything.

How about you go shove your head into a toilet? See, i can talk nonsense too.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: BenKain on July 30, 2012, 11:56:03 pm
Ben you are not right.

I can run you the full list here, Greenthumb. Just be aware, I'm not directing any of my animosity towards you, I find you friendly and fun.

Most of the other ways to produce caps are either painfully monotonous (like mind fuckingly so), like Slaving and BP hunting. The other ways are also boring as all hell, things like farming already mostly destroyed items, hunting geckos and spear-chuckers, and creating alts to run the tanker quest (which by the way, is actually kinda fun. why isn't it repeatable? Why aren't there more quests like it?)

In my opinion, the most fun you can have in an MMO such as this, is player interaction. I had that in spades as a trader and crafter, but apparently those things are not in the future for 2238. We only want to be able to shoot our fellow wastelanders...

And please don't anyone give me the "make moar alts" line. I don't have the personal time to level ten separate crafting alts and find the high tier BPs for all of them, and even if I did, I wouldn't waste my life like that.

I have been screaming out for something amusing to do in this game, and all that is happening is those things that drew me to the game in the first place are being pulled away.

@T-888; The Devs don't play this game... None of them have the time to do anything but log into NCR and kill everyone in-game, or make shit shoveling a "balanced feature". If someone where to be willing to have a fun RP-Like event, I'd love them forever, but I'm not holding my breathe.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Roachor on July 31, 2012, 12:12:44 am
Slave runs are the best source of caps and are fun.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: DeputyDope on July 31, 2012, 12:59:32 am
We only want to be able to shoot our fellow wastelanders...

shoot? in this era it's all about beating them to death.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: TKs-KaBoom on July 31, 2012, 02:26:00 am
Jovanka is on shit detail!  And she is ever so happy about it.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Malice Song on July 31, 2012, 03:12:24 am
Or you could craft to become rich.... Oh wait... Almost forgot...
Only way to make money now is TC and Shoveling....
Both are pretty shitty prospects....

What's keeping you from charging more for your goods?

If someone where to be willing to have a fun RP-Like event, I'd love them forever, but I'm not holding my breathe.

You should probably love Jovanka forever then.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: BenKain on July 31, 2012, 03:39:06 am
What's keeping you from charging more for your goods?

Oh I have, but I quite simply can't keep up with the exploding demand, and am barely crafting enough to keep my faction running.

You should probably love Jovanka forever then.

I don't consider shoveling shit to be Roleplaying. Until we can get some affirmation that the Hub RP Project is going ahead as planed, I still only love Jovanka a little bit :P
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: falloutdude on July 31, 2012, 03:44:34 am
Oh I have, but I quite simply can't keep up with the exploding demand, and am barely crafting enough to keep my faction running.

i know you said or someone said not to give the "make more alts" way of making more stuff but really make more alts and increase your output. devs fucked up crafting and you and everyone that crafts needs to make more alts to craft.
for example gr1m has made 4 new alts to craft stuff for pvp. he did not want to but its the only way he is going to keep up his stock of pvp equipment. i think you should do the same for your business. its not alot of work. you onlly need lvl 2-3 to get 100 repair/science and get profs. i know it sucks but you gotta do what you gotta do.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: BenKain on July 31, 2012, 03:52:39 am
its not alot of work. you onlly need lvl 2-3 to get 100 repair/science and get profs. i know it sucks but you gotta do what you gotta do.

Like I said, I'd rather quit. I'm really not interested in mega-alting like most 2238 players. I think its quite simply, foolish. If the devs are going to continue to make alting a necessity, this is obliviously not my game. To bad most FOnline players are total cheese-fucks, or I'd just say we expand our employee base, but alas... 
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: JovankaB on July 31, 2012, 04:41:54 am
You should probably love Jovanka forever then.

There is no reason to love because I didn't do anything except a promise which I didn't fulfill.
In the moment I'm more interested in fixing bugs than doing something for RPers. All I can say is sorry.

Until we can get some affirmation that the Hub RP Project is going ahead as planed

It's frozen and all I can say for sure now is that it will never happen in the same form as planned before.
It was planned from ground up as thing for active GM(s), for a developer it's just a waste of time to sit
in game and try to organize something. It would require me to involve all the time I have for FOnline.
When I got the idea I didn't know that I will have a chance to change the game in any other way.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Malice Song on July 31, 2012, 05:06:38 am
There is no reason to love because I didn't do anything except a promise which I didn't fulfill.

I can remember a spontaneous event on a stranded tanker. Seemed to be pretty RP to me. Don't sell yourself short.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Trokanis on July 31, 2012, 06:47:04 am
I'm not a big fan of the Multi-alting thing either, I don't think it should be the answer to most of the problems in game.  Personally I feel the people that abuse the multi-alt thing to get what they want are causing their on problems anyhow, the game is too easy cause I can be 10 places at once, well try not having 10 alts?  Hell there is 1 single player that has most the hotel rooms in Junktown and The Hub, ONE player, and all just to camp Traveler spawn points.  God knows how many other alts they have so they can Take all the Travelers that finally spawn.  Wow that sounds like a fun play style... (sarcasm)  I know you can't do anything in game anymore with just 1 character, and that's true for many MP RPG's, but still I don't see the 'need' for a dozen alts.  I know that they can be helpful but if they're not directly needed, all they're really doing is detracting from your and everyone else' game play.  Just like Powerbuilds, you complain the game is too easy, well you made a character so one sided that all it can do is kill things and it excels at that, maybe that's why the game is too easy?  I mean the game is sorta built around a system that was originally designed to combine the need for combat with other things. 

The Dev's can only do so much with what they are building at a time, and really the players do a fair share of making the game unplayable by themselves.   

I'm with the others though if a million alts is the only way to continue playing I guess I'll have to wait for one of the other Fonlines.  BTW  Bring back the TAG perk and lower some of the skill requirements for things, that could really make things interesting.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: T-888 on July 31, 2012, 12:51:04 pm
In the moment I'm more interested in fixing bugs than doing something for RPers.

Nice to hear, but what about intended changes that aren't done and would significantly improve game play experience for players, like heavy handed not being 100%, critical hits ignoring the 30% DR penalty whilst using fineese, armors not dropping damage resistances until 50% deterioration? Like Solar intended to do, i'm just curious and there are more things actually. Crafting CD? Is it going to be relaxed or removed, or nobody cares? AC cap?

I'd say any of these changes are more of a pressing matter to the player than let's say some graphical fix for some shelves, for me personally graphical/dialog/grammar/all sort of minor bug fixes could be done after a year, i wouldn't care much, those things just don't have almost any impact on my game play experience. I'm quite sure i'm not the only one.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: codave on July 31, 2012, 11:41:03 pm
Nobody whined yet about blueprints being easier to aquire. How come?

Ok, I'll whine about it now.

(http://i45.tinypic.com/s2qsk7.jpg)

Fucking.  Bullshit.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: DeputyDope on July 31, 2012, 11:51:58 pm
Fucking.  Bullshit.

bullshit? come to think about it those brahmins shit alot.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Johnny Nuclear on August 01, 2012, 12:04:50 am
Ares and Glow will be fixed with next update
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: chocolate_chip_cookies on August 01, 2012, 02:12:41 am
Ares and Glow will be fixed with next update

Wait... what's wrong with them?
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: BenKain on August 01, 2012, 02:28:33 am
The footlockers are blocked...

Also, why do are my posts suddenly getting deleted?
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: avv on August 01, 2012, 10:16:38 am
Wait... what's wrong with them?

What's wrong with ares?

Mutants spawn too fast and they aggro totally randomly.
Players have to dual/fastrelog to repair and lockpick alts to operate there.

But ares isn't complete fail place either. There's a certain feeling of real danger when you're down there. Can't operate in bluesuit, you have to risk gear. Once players are down there, you can't just come and go as you please. Everything needs to be coordinated or the team dies. But it's likely a matter of time before someone finds a way to solo it with alts.

Also the way there's only one spawn + carspawn is actually interesting. If the main is camped, only way to get in is the car spawn. So either you organize a car entrance or don't go in. In addition if a team is far ahead and other team spawns in the actual spawn, they have to go through the mutants if they want to hit the first team. This lessens the downside of being the first team inside. Downside is that once the first team wants to get out, it has to run through all muties again and then maybe even other players.

I suggest that ares could be like a tube: you enter one side and can exit another. Meaning that you don't have to exit where you came from, but there's a chance. Have some brown grid in the last level or something, that is like some sort of emergency exit.

I'd say any of these changes are more of a pressing matter to the player than let's say some graphical fix for some shelves, for me personally graphical/dialog/grammar/all sort of minor bug fixes could be done after a year, i wouldn't care much, those things just don't have almost any impact on my game play experience. I'm quite sure i'm not the only one.

I must agree here too. Personally I hardly ever report any bugs because the ones I find are insignificant when it comes to gameplay. Biggest problems are failed or lacking features like what T888 presented.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: T-888 on August 01, 2012, 12:35:36 pm
I guess small and easy fixes make an update look bigger.

Come to think about it, maybe not very easy, just some look off and random with the picture of what's going on in the server, has been in the past 5 months or so.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: JovankaB on August 01, 2012, 02:13:24 pm
You can stop whining about insignificant fixes blocking "the important
things", because they won't be done by the same person, not me at least.

Anyway, I already heard from players that I better leave PvP changes to
others because I don't have qualifications, so everyone should be happy.

I will stick to what I do best - easy fixes which make updates look bigger.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: T-888 on August 01, 2012, 02:52:02 pm
So everything i have on my mind right now leads to one question, are you capable of doing more than just minor fixes?

others

What others? Solar that has not been here for few months?

Don't you think you could do a better job than him? No offense, but look, players are still frustrated by the changes he has done half a year ago, tell me how would you be less qualified than him?
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Shangalar on August 01, 2012, 03:11:30 pm
I don't see either how Solar, who does his best but has other responsabilities both for the project and IRL, could do better than you since afaik he never really played the game. You do/did, and are more present ingame to have an accurate judgement and see consequences of choices made. The best would be an actual pvp player, but that's certainly impossible due to the different visions about pvp. So yeah, you should be responsible for that imho.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Surf on August 01, 2012, 03:39:40 pm
When he has time, Solar is actually pretty often ingame, on quite a few different characters aswell.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Shangalar on August 01, 2012, 03:45:22 pm
alright, but if he plays solo, that doesn't help much to work on pvp balancing.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: T-888 on August 01, 2012, 03:55:26 pm
Sad that he never shared his experience in game with us, that would explain a lot of his decision making on changes made, thus allowing to build better consensus between developers and players on how the game should look like, what changes to be expected etc. etc. Communication is vital for the game to progress, in my opinion. Though his opinion was like that developers are making their own game, not the players, so maybe it didn't matter if he played or not, his attitude reflected on the quality of the features he implemented.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Stration on August 01, 2012, 03:56:16 pm
alright, but if he plays solo, that doesn't help much to work on pvp balancing.
The fact that he probably spawns all his items using GM commands doesn't help either.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: T-888 on August 01, 2012, 03:59:02 pm
I'd trade a week of jovankas time spent working on this project for her to just join a faction, try different builds, experiment, experience what the player does.

The fact that he probably spawns all his items using GM commands doesn't help either.

I think he was just testing weapons, making DPS charts and other nonsense most of time anyway.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: manero on August 01, 2012, 06:24:02 pm
When he has time, Solar is actually pretty often ingame, on quite a few different characters aswell.

Yes, i heard he has high ac troll, sd crippler and hh unarmed build. He also hates crafting.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Vilgefortz on August 01, 2012, 06:25:49 pm
Lockes at glow are what?
Blocked?
Didnt noticed. Better fix door autoclose, was usefull at pvp there
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: TKs-KaBoom on August 01, 2012, 07:29:46 pm
You can stop whining about insignificant fixes blocking "the important
things", because they won't be done by the same person, not me at least.

Anyway, I already heard from players that I better leave PvP changes to
others because I don't have qualifications, so everyone should be happy.

I will stick to what I do best - easy fixes which make updates look bigger.


So....... your in charge of shit distribution :)

J/k I know your an amateur and trying your hand at dev, good luck.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: avv on August 01, 2012, 07:38:41 pm
Anyway, I already heard from players that I better leave PvP changes to
others because I don't have qualifications, so everyone should be happy.

I will stick to what I do best - easy fixes which make updates look bigger.

What was meant was: someone who doesn't have the experience shouldn't just come up with an idea and implement it without careful planning. Example: removing ac cap. It just came out of the blue even though any experienced player could instantly tell that it's probably not the best idea.

But anyone is qualified to fix misplaced features when it has been generally acknowledged what should be done about them. If stuff still goes wrong after the change, it surely wasn't devs fault this time. For example removing mercs from militia. It was generally agreed, removed and result was that we're having better times.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Cain on August 01, 2012, 08:47:42 pm
<Long speech regarding milti-alting>
100% Agreed!
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: jacky. on August 02, 2012, 11:17:47 pm
bullshit...better 1 shitty dev (no ofence jovanka) than good but inactive. better small fixes than one big update once for half a year...jovanka just try to do ur best and try to fix some bigger problems than cows shit
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Fettel on August 03, 2012, 02:37:22 am
Fixing brahmin shit is better than nothing, so just deal with it.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Roachor on August 03, 2012, 02:53:46 am
Fixing brahmin shit is better than nothing, so just deal with it.
It's good for jovs personal growth but beyond that its a meaningless mechanic that affects no one. I'd like to know why so many weapons are missing from the game, like flamer mk 2. How hard could it possibly be to put it back in game when its supposed to be there. Someone seriously needs to fill out the missing parts of the crafting system.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: BOS Armorer on August 03, 2012, 03:35:12 am
It's good for jovs personal growth but beyond that its a meaningless mechanic that affects no one. I'd like to know why so many weapons are missing from the game, like flamer mk 2. How hard could it possibly be to put it back in game when its supposed to be there. Someone seriously needs to fill out the missing parts of the crafting system.
I'm afraid I have to agree. I didn't get into crafting for a long time, so I heard about it from players that those flamers are only from glow lockers(and now ares I think). But that's ridiculous...I didn't even believe it. Until I saw that they are truly gone(almost c:)
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: JovankaB on August 03, 2012, 08:20:47 am
It's good for jovs personal growth but beyond that its a meaningless mechanic that affects no one.

I disagree. As far I can tell, after the fix there ARE people shoveling poop in this game.
Also it's a classic 2238 feature and it should work properly ;P

Gameplay-wise it's much more interesting way to get a bit of xp/caps than fetching boxes
from point A to point B. There can be a competition between people, shits appear randomly
and you have to be first to clean the poop. Would be nice to have boxes in similar fashion
IMHO (competitive in some way, not just mechanical clicking two spots for a few minutes).

I would like to make it more interesting, eg if you would clean poop near a brahmin, there
could be a chance that the brahmin will ram into you, knocking you down and damaging
(without engaging combat), so you would have to be more careful in the pens :P
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Tomowolf on August 03, 2012, 01:11:01 pm
I disagree. As far I can tell, after the fix there ARE people shoveling poop in this game.
Also it's a classic 2238 feature and it should work properly ;P

I would like to make it more interesting, eg if you would clean poop near a brahmin, there
could be a chance that the brahmin will ram into you, knocking you down and damaging
(without engaging combat), so you would have to be more careful in the pens :P

New meta of pve?
That sounds fun, I'll prepare my shoveling alts.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: RavenousRat on August 03, 2012, 01:12:54 pm
There can be a competition between people
Competition? Grease gun/plasma grenade trolls will kill all competition, if shit shoveling will really worth it's time and efforts some day. Use dynamite and explode all brahmin in pieces, then burst bluesuiters. That's how it'll work in reality.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: JovankaB on August 03, 2012, 01:43:51 pm
Competition? Grease gun/plasma grenade trolls will kill all competition, if shit shoveling will really worth it's time and efforts some day.

It's worth already in some cases, because some people do it. Maybe it's all newbies, I don't know.
Feel free to go to pens and bomb them if you think it's worth your time and resources.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Tomowolf on August 03, 2012, 01:46:01 pm
Well shovelling is worth a while when you do it in NCR or Hub, rest of cities can lay in goo(because 5 caps is not 10 caps).
Tried to get some caps yesterday, got 3k caps from shovelling 20 minutes.... so its working nice.
Keep up good shi... work.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: jacky. on August 03, 2012, 02:13:26 pm
so this game has finally come to its final shape. from guys in ba with gauss pistol or avenger to blue suit with shovel
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: BOS Armorer on August 03, 2012, 03:15:30 pm
lol. Jacky, you make it sound as if it's worse than it is :P although it IS possible to kill a BA guy with a gauss pistol while holding a shovel...sneak up behind them, as it is nerfed, knock them out, then keep knocking him out :3
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Wipe on August 03, 2012, 04:01:36 pm
so from this game has finally come to its final shape. from guys in ba with gauss pistol or avenger to blue suit with shovel

No. It's how it all started - with shovel in hand.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: jacky. on August 03, 2012, 04:50:24 pm
Hehehe yes...it is big step foward after years of developning :)
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Wipe on August 03, 2012, 05:16:01 pm
Glad that at least one person see that ;)
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Roachor on August 03, 2012, 05:53:36 pm
I disagree. As far I can tell, after the fix there ARE people shoveling poop in this game.
Also it's a classic 2238 feature and it should work properly ;P

Gameplay-wise it's much more interesting way to get a bit of xp/caps than fetching boxes
from point A to point B. There can be a competition between people, shits appear randomly
and you have to be first to clean the poop. Would be nice to have boxes in similar fashion
IMHO (competitive in some way, not just mechanical clicking two spots for a few minutes).

I would like to make it more interesting, eg if you would clean poop near a brahmin, there
could be a chance that the brahmin will ram into you, knocking you down and damaging
(without engaging combat), so you would have to be more careful in the pens :P

make each shit worth 100xp and it wll be worth it, until then i'll stick to centaurs and deathclaws.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: jacky. on August 03, 2012, 05:57:17 pm
Or make Them poop...centaurs and poo - exp and money :D
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: BOS Armorer on August 03, 2012, 06:37:42 pm
lol...pooping centuars? But who would pay you to clean poo of irradiated animals creaturs far away from any civiliation?
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: jacky. on August 03, 2012, 07:13:15 pm
rpg players ;D
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: JovankaB on August 03, 2012, 08:25:39 pm
make each shit worth 100xp and it wll be worth it, until then i'll stick to centaurs and deathclaws.

And a newbie who has no items, not alts and no friends in the game, the newbies should stick to cents and dcs too?
Or beg for pistol? No, they can take the shovel in hand and turn their life around for the better.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: BOS Armorer on August 03, 2012, 09:40:46 pm
And a newbie who has no items, not alts and no friends in the game, the newbies should stick to cents and dcs too?
Or beg for pistol? No, they can take the shovel in hand and turn their life around for the better.
I remember in the NCR pens prewipe, if shoveling full pens it was ~630 xp/caps. Right now I noticed it has been changed a lot since the wipe, but that is still a significant amount of money for noobs. Couples with experience already gained, this will probably help them reach level 2 or 3.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Roachor on August 03, 2012, 11:29:10 pm
And a newbie who has no items, not alts and no friends in the game, the newbies should stick to cents and dcs too?
Or beg for pistol? No, they can take the shovel in hand and turn their life around for the better.

shoveling shit is pretty much the worst way to accomplish anything, you shouldn't be directing n00bs to irrelevant minigames that offer miniscule rewards for annoying and time consuming actions.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: T-888 on August 04, 2012, 12:43:06 am
First levels obtained by shit shoveling is fine for a new player when he doesn't know anything else about the game, so he can use a gun investing first skill points into one of the gun skills, you shouldn't be directing anything to what something should be at all. Players that lack common sense shouldn't be in this forum at all, that's one of the forum rules, including your inability to understand you fit the profile perfect.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Roachor on August 04, 2012, 01:45:53 am
First levels obtained by shit shoveling is fine for a new player when he doesn't know anything else about the game, so he can use a gun investing first skill points into one of the gun skills, you shouldn't be directing anything to what something should be at all. Players that lack common sense shouldn't be in this forum at all, that's one of the forum rules, including your inability to understand you fit the profile perfect.

Thank you for your wisdom shitmaster, if only you were so skilled at punctuation.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Trokanis on August 04, 2012, 06:18:56 am
Also to add, the tedium of shit shoveling is just a different form of tedium from box moving.  I am not saying the new Brahmin stuff is bad, in fact I like it because it is helpful for the lower level people.  However Brahmin shoveling has always been more annoying at least to me than box, cause the brahmin are in the way, the shit spawns behind fences and buildings, BUT this is just the standard rpg gather quest gripe.  There is NO perfect gather quest that I have ever seen in any RPG it's all just different versions of tedious tasks, this one just happens to now have a better effort/reward ratio.  I don't think it should be the sole topic of conversation when there is so much more in game, it's a change, it worked, and it suffers the same issues everything else in the game does, it can be exploited by bored people to the loss of new players, like anything else in game. 

As far as the post that this is the worst way to do anything for newbies, I have to say I disagree, every single rpg has some mundane task to help you get a little bit of xp and Game xp under your belt.  The fact that now a new character can take a few mins hit let's say NCR, get Buster's smokes, turn in Becky's debt, Shovel some shit, and be level 2 or close to it, means when they do set out into the wastes they're not completely subject to the basest skill sets, have some more hp, armor, heck even a fancy knife.  Will it make or break the game, no, but it at least gives people who want to take it a chance to have a leg up.  No one is forcing you at Avenger point when your character first crawls out of the hole after the storm to go shovel shit, if you don't want to, don't do it.

But let me restate I have nothing against the new changes to Brahmin, just that the changes are done, lets move on to the important stuff.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: naossano on August 04, 2012, 09:53:58 am

Fonline2238 is not entirelly made for whiners and pvp apes.

There is (or should be) contents for every kind of players, even those who are fond of shovelling shit.
(I think it's time for resurrecting the shovelling shit californian contest)
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Vilgefortz on August 04, 2012, 01:37:19 pm
Quote
- Added blueprints to loot container in the Glow.

Didnt happened.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Johnny Nuclear on August 04, 2012, 02:08:18 pm
Quote
- Added blueprints to loot container in the Glow.

Didnt happened.
Ares and Glow will be fixed with next update
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: g4ce on August 07, 2012, 01:52:46 am
people who think shoveling shit is fun , and a competition are very sick players, i don't think shit is funny or fun to look at or make a game out of it who can shovel the fastest lol you should make a new shovel, who ever shovels over 200 shits will get the new pooper-scooper xl 2000 the fastest shit shoveling machine in the wastes. but i totaly agree you making new players think all this game is about is shoveling shit :S comeon make some good changes for example actually get the hq chemical componants implanted
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: JovankaB on August 07, 2012, 08:18:44 am
you making new players think all this game is about is shoveling shit :S

Nonsense, it's just a method to get a few first xp and caps when you don't have anything
and don't know anything about the game nor anyone who could help you.

Actually after update XP for shoveling will drop the higher level you have, so shoveling will
be good only for newbies on levels 1-2, then you have to move on. The formula will be 24/level.

I want to make brahmin in the pen "dangerous" and attack shovelers sporadically (without
enabling real combat), so you get XP, but there is a little bit of danger too (not a big one
though, because brahmin hits you only once or at all if you move away in time). Actually
it's implemented already but it doesn't work smooth enough.

I'm doing things I consider fun because it's not a work but hobby. The moment developing
stops being fun and will start feeling like a regular job, I will stop doing it. For example
if had to do the things that some people tell me to do and I wanted to do other things.
I don't need a regular job where I'm not paid and called stupid by random people from Internet.
So new suggestions are very welcome, but whining about known issues is not motivating.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: greenthumb on August 07, 2012, 08:48:46 am

I'm doing things I consider fun because it's not a work but hobby. The moment developing
stops being fun and will start feeling like a regular job, I will stop doing it. For example if had
to do the things that some g4ce tells me to do and I wanted to do other things. I don't need
a regular job where I'm not paid and called stupid by random people from Internet.
So new suggestions are welcome, whining is pointless. Any more questions?


Iam glad you said this, so people can understand your motivation. I ll try to create some idea/s which should ba funny for developer too(if iam able to). I totaly understand why you are doing this. Now our problems are...

1.Can we (players) create suggestion which will be fun to be implemented for developers? Becouse most of funny things are people doing by themselves(own creativity) not being forced into it.
2 Fixing previous fails/bugs in game will never be fun. So how we can motivate you into fixing, completeing previous game features, which you are not author? Or can we help with this anyway?
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Ox-Skull on August 07, 2012, 09:00:29 am
As T-888 stated, there is nothing wrong with obtaining first few lvls by shovelling shit.

Also why is everyone acting like a tool towards jovanka, grow the fuck up.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: JovankaB on August 07, 2012, 09:12:17 am
Can we (players) create suggestion which will be fun to be implemented for developers?
Lots of things that got implemented are player suggestions.

Quote
Fixing previous fails/bugs in game will never be fun.
For me fixing, making things work can be fun. It depends on many things.
Reading whining or even name calling doesn't make it more fun.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: greenthumb on August 07, 2012, 09:15:40 am

Also why is everyone acting like a tool towards jovanka, grow the fuck up.

If iam right developers are mostly people who are working on game to improve its quality. Way which they do it, is way which they want to. Thats becous they do it for free. While we will be playing for free, all of us should be "little" developers, or "tools" for ones which spend more time with developing then playing. This is not so hard to comrpehend. Thanks

Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: TKs-KaBoom on August 07, 2012, 09:14:40 pm
I sincerely believe most of you are "tools".
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: BOS Armorer on August 07, 2012, 11:46:25 pm
We are all tools in a way, we are trying out this game and telling the developers what to fix. It's their game peoplez. Our reward for this is we get to enjoy playing the game. If you do not like something, then suggest changing or removing it, but do not whine as that will just guarantee it remaining as it is. If you do not like it, if you think it's so easy to change everything, then you make your own FOnline. Noone's making you play this, you are doing it for free of your own will, so bitching about it is just stupid.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Ox-Skull on August 08, 2012, 10:20:35 am
My use of the word "tool" has been misunderstood.

Tool can be slang for idiot or moron in Australia

It was aimed at the people who where giving Jovanka a hard time about the poop fixing when there is more important things to fix, and to my understanding she is beginner at scripting.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: TKs-KaBoom on August 08, 2012, 01:38:52 pm
My use of the word "tool" has been misunderstood.

Tool can be slang for idiot or moron in Australia

It was aimed at the people who where giving Jovanka a hard time about the poop fixing when there is more important things to fix, and to my understanding she is beginner at scripting.

Yeah, I think everyone understood the correct meaning alright :)  Thanks for confirming....
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Ville on August 08, 2012, 03:01:03 pm
Look alot of the whining and complaining comes from things that don't make sense or limits a player to obtain gear, telling players they can use one alt for all the crafting and then only allowing them to craft 2 things per hour there is bound to be frustration. The thing is this game has potential to be good, there has been many succesful mods turned into full production games that are on the shelves of video game stores. Not saying that this is the intent of this game but saying these things have happened in the industry. But I have seen the IRC chats with the name that won't be mentioned and it doesn't help when people are frustrated with the game and people get trolled by GM/developing team. Also it doesn't help when the GMs/Developing team says things like "deal with it or so and so is a retard". So I understand player frustration and the name calling.

Look this community is nothing but trolls somebody gets mad at the game it is not really professional even if this isn't done for living to call players retards and tell them to shut up and stop whining when they are angry at a game feature. It also doesn't help when somebody tries to put forth an arguement why such and such feature idea is bad and then the end result is banning and deleting post or banning them from IRC. It also doesn't help when 3/4 of the community sees frustration posts and irc chats and gets sick thrill to piss them off even further with idiotic trolling comments.

I have worked many jobs in my life time and if I ever once told somebody to quit whining or call them a retard because they are complaining about the company I work for there goes my job I would get fired. So don't give anybody lecture on maturity or act that these people are innocent they aren't. I have seen surf write some really trollish things to people when they are frustrated, and I have seen Johnny Nuclear call somebody a retard. If you want maturity then act mature yourselves, I do not know anybody in this community who is fully mature or can handle not posting a meme or write something trollish to piss off somebody even further who is already frustrated.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: BOS Armorer on August 08, 2012, 04:02:25 pm
My use of the word "tool" has been misunderstood.

Tool can be slang for idiot or moron in Australia

It was aimed at the people who where giving Jovanka a hard time about the poop fixing when there is more important things to fix, and to my understanding she is beginner at scripting.
My mistake. I agree, however
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: codave on August 08, 2012, 05:02:23 pm
I sincerely believe most of you are "tools".

Tools are useful though.  We're something else.

I'm still amazed that people are so riled up over shot shoveling, though.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: T-888 on August 08, 2012, 06:55:17 pm
I'm amazed how anyone can focus working on shit shoveling at all, very important stuff you know. Nerf poo distribution, implement angry cows that makes shit shoveling more of a challenge and decrease experience gained from shoveling shit at higher levels, smarter cow movement. I can feel how the game get's filled with content and absolutely necessary features to improve game play experience, not to mention that 95% players of the game will be happy about it and the effective usage of developers time to improve quality of the game.

Don't you just love 2238? Love with all your heart, you can almost feel it in the air.

Nevermind.

I'm doing things I consider fun because it's not a work but hobby.

Why your hobby couldn't be focusing on priorities? Motivate yourself!
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: DeputyDope on August 08, 2012, 07:00:44 pm
Nerf poo distribution, implement angry cows that makes shit shoveling more of a challenge and decrease experience gained from shoveling shit at higher levels, smarter cow movement.

yeah i lol'd too when i first read that poo distribution gonna get nerfed.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: T-888 on August 08, 2012, 07:14:45 pm
She is having fun implementing that, we are having a laugh about it, i guess we all have our share of fun then. Positive thinking.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: greenthumb on August 08, 2012, 07:37:26 pm
to T888:
If you really want to change smthing, you should look for elements which are able to do it. Like you want to change some game feature you should find out, only developer is able to change it. I believe you can understand this clearly but you are doing it wrong.

 If you want to make developer listen your opinions, you should really give him/her smthing first so he/she will want to help you. Now if you gona vilify developer, probably he/she will not take care on your opinions. But he/she is forced to resist your verbal atacks, which might cause aversion, which might be counter productive for you.

I like most of your suggestions, but i can understand why jovanka prefer to fix shit shoveling :)

Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: T-888 on August 08, 2012, 08:08:23 pm
we all have our share of fun then

Sarcasm. I don't write something out of blue, the point is we are not having fun for what work she is doing and that includes hundreds of players that would like to see this game grow into something marvelous, but improved cow mechanics is just a waste of time in my opinion relating to that, valuable time considering the developer who could do much more than that. This server is just a play ground for people with some mad skills who potentially could make a really good server, i mean one of the best games out there. That's not going to happen anytime soon or never with the attitude developers have, so please, do understand my frustration.

Don't care about that or this, we are having fun, buzz of this is not work, we do what we want, you don't not tell us what to do, it's our server!!!

Okay and you know what? It's shit, to be honest. None cares about that?

Currently the game is unplayable for me and many other players, because once it was doesn't make it a good game.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Ville on August 09, 2012, 01:13:14 am
Currently the game is unplayable for me and many other players, because once it was doesn't make it a good game.

I am for one who thinks this should be declared the shortest session yet, and give us a new session with wipe. The game is playable but its not enjoyable as it once was, the only thing left I find interesting is the PvP even that is getting tiresome with the spray n pray builds and all the ac jinx hth in your face shit...

Could always go die to russian anti-pk agian in tlamk2. I think the guys who develope tlamk2 have a better grasp of the concept of a good idea and enjoyable changes to the game.

I can't keep up with the constant changes and it is making my head spin. I just want to play the game for 2 weeks without remaking new pvp builds and crafters with each update. One update a build is good next update it sucks, then its good agian, then some perk gets changed and have to make a new build with this perk becuase the last one didn't need it but now its absoletely necessary if you want your build to be decent.

Then the whole town control system is constanly changing also, toilet control was horrible but then it was good becuase you could start timer setup strategy anywhere in town, yes it was bugged but it was fun to do fights outside of tc zones. Now its old TC with fast relog and horribly unbalanced pvp.

I try I really do try to give this game a chance and I am hoping for a better update but maybe this is just a false sense of hope.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: FrankenStone on August 09, 2012, 03:16:22 am
just bring back the server on the sattus we had before the wipe , without this annyoing BP and such shity nonesense stuff , people had wasted their whole life into BP hunting for nuthin in the end lol
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Pvt.Hudson on August 09, 2012, 03:45:56 am
Everything was great before the wipe. Now almost everything is shit. Sad but true.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Wipe on August 09, 2012, 09:20:12 am
Everything was great before the wipe. Now almost everything is shit. Sad but true.

Such thing, in different forms, is said after every wipe, since 2238 :]
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: naossano on August 09, 2012, 09:29:33 am
Better cession was with namecolorizing.

Anyway, i am agains't short cessions. Tired of making all chars, buy bases and put stuff in it, for having everything erased too fast. One cession per year is good for me.

I would repeat myself, but this game is not exclusivelly made for pvp players.
I am glad that the devellopper still care about adding new places (Reno sewers), new pve cooperative quest (Ares), new solo quests (Gunnrunners), improve non pvp activities (shit shovelling).

I just hope fixes for that is bugged and finished content for npc factions (BOS, Enclave, Vault, Raider, Mordino and more) and new way to make real caps. (Metzger is getting old, even it is good quest. More map or ennemies would be great, or other quest that give the same reward.)
But as it was said many times, dev don't owe anything and all have different skills. You can't ask a coder to do graphic art.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Ville on August 09, 2012, 12:49:08 pm
I would repeat myself, but this game is not exclusivelly made for pvp players.

What are you talking about this entire game revolves around PvP we start a 15 minute timer so we can fight eachother and its a constant battle to control towns. You can get encountered by another player and choose to fight eachother if you so please.

This game has something for everybody. There is nothing stopping from people who only play to fight PvE. And there is nothing stopping people who only play to to e-mute snuggles and hugs to everybody in NCR. And there is nothing stopping people from making up roleplaying story for their characters and write only in roleplay.

It was once said that there 2 games going on here. One game is people going through the challenge of leveling, crafting and playing a PvE game. Then there is another group of players playing a PvP game discussing power builds and strategy and how to defeat another team. All these new perks and changes were intended for PvP builds its kind of obvious you don't need right between the eyes to farm, or man of steel to kill unity. NPCs don't even target the head half the time for bonehead to be of any use in PvE.

The town control system is designed for PvP, toilet control was more of the "stand in town roleplay" to take the town but that didn't work out and everybody hated it.

Am I sorry but you cannot get rid of PvPers and say this isn't a PvP game there is an entire group of players divided into differnt factions who fight eachother on a daily basis and play only for PvP and its probably half the population of the server at this point in time. Out of the 100 people who play this game probably 50 of them are on to PvP and gather gear for PvP.

Now if you are saying fallout1/2 was never ment to be a PvP game then sure yes anybody would agree with that. But fonline 2238 has many features which are PvP oriented like town control and the entire game and buying bases is revolved around that.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: naossano on August 09, 2012, 04:09:17 pm
I should have wrote it on bold characters.
I sait not exclusivelly, which means that it is also made for them.

I just say that i am glad that the dev still keep that in mind, providing other content, even if slowly. Better in two years than never. (not to mention that fonline exist, which is already a huge step)
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: BOS Armorer on August 09, 2012, 04:20:04 pm
Everything was great before the wipe. Now almost everything is shit. Sad but true.
I agree that I would prefer prewipe status any day over this, but as the devs said earlier this session, this is mainly going to be testing grounds for many new features. However, since they won't make a new server just for some people, I say we should enjoy what we can of this session before the wipe comes. Make an ac heavy handed troll ;) Or go hunt bps for a month and then sell it for large sums of money. Go to ares expedition and use troll builds to cripple dafuq out of those muties. Don't waste your entire time on being butthurt about the changes, enjoy them for what you can while they last. But I do, however, agree with Vile that I would like a wipe sometime soon. Not too soon, but sometime maybe next month.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Ville on August 09, 2012, 05:16:55 pm
I agree that I would prefer prewipe status any day over this, but as the devs said earlier this session, this is mainly going to be testing grounds for many new features. However, since they won't make a new server just for some people, I say we should enjoy what we can of this session before the wipe comes. Make an ac heavy handed troll ;) Or go hunt bps for a month and then sell it for large sums of money. Go to ares expedition and use troll builds to cripple dafuq out of those muties. Don't waste your entire time on being butthurt about the changes, enjoy them for what you can while they last. But I do, however, agree with Vile that I would like a wipe sometime soon. Not too soon, but sometime maybe next month.

I'm not vile, I am ville I know there is another player who goes by vile that isn't me. I have enjoyed all this long enough and its time for new update. I think the thing is this session was a rushed release filled with bugs and unbalances the server was crashing too much last session so they rushed this one and didn't think things through. Please just get rid of this in your face 220 ac jinxed shit, I spend many hours for gear and they keep nerfing the ability to farm and craft gear to lose it to some guy who spent some time punching molerats who can kill a top gear character 1vs1 with a blue suit. This game shouldn't be about running around blue suit and not dying when being shot by 10-20 pvp apes with gattling lasers rockets and avengers. What happened to the wasteland is harsh?

This game used to take skill one hex dog fighting, knowing how to line up an eye shot how to exploit the field of views in certian towns. Now its just invicible blue suits running around annoying people like flies with their jinx ac trolls, and punching people who can't get up and fight back. And then these no skilled builds 1 click 1 kill spray n pray big gunners. 10 waves of fast relog, I just want this session to be over...

And these stupid nerfs like can't loot enclave after crippling them, adding in negative reputation for steal failing very strange crafting limits, craft 2 metal armors an hour but I can craft 9 metal armor mk2 an hour? How is it possible to kill enclave without crippling them when they have a 80% chance to crit burst?

I think a blue print vendor would have been a better idea I tried to blue print farm and after 30 minutes I couldn't take it any more I was so bored to tears that I just focus on making caps to buy blue prints from other players. Actually there is no sense in even having any blue print other than metal armor mk2 and combat armor all the weapons are farmable there isn't really the need to craft anything else.

I get it they wanted to test some ideas but this should have been all tested in the closed beta before being released to the public.


I know the people of this game can develope something better, and this is why I get so angry with this community, gms and developers because I know they are smart people they can develope a brilliant fonline game if they wanted. And it doesn't help that one of the developers now is some person who has a grudge agiasnt me for PKing her, calling me a coward, scum bag and trolling every post I wrote when I was writing my opinions on the closed beta. So I am sorry if I am bitter and act like a jackass calling people names.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: naossano on August 09, 2012, 06:04:51 pm
There is no need to wipe the whole server just to correct a few updates that were made DURING the cession. :o

Let this cession goes at least to january, in respect for those who take longer to do things...

Also, i don't think we need a wipe, if it is not for 3D, domination, or a huge change of gameplay, like we had at the beginning of the cession.

Also, in case you didn't notice, it is an open beta test. So, the features are actually tested, by US.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: T-888 on August 09, 2012, 06:17:34 pm
Such thing, in different forms, is said after every wipe, since 2238 :]

Compare the population few wipes back and now. :]

Oh yeah i forgot to mention, take in consideration that dual logging is in okay grayish area now.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: BOS Armorer on August 09, 2012, 08:09:29 pm
Compare the population few wipes back and now. :]

Oh yeah i forgot to mention, take in consideration that dual logging is in okay grayish area now.
Highest I've seen is 107 people this session...last one was so much more. Hell, I saw 300 before.....NCR idling used to mean something. Now, often NCR is deserted. Never more than 10 people....used to be up to 20...and yes, i know some people who even quadlog, so the server population is even less than it says.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: DeputyDope on August 09, 2012, 09:06:26 pm
Highest I've seen is 107 people this session...

highest i've seen were 400 people this session after wipe. then after 1 week there were 100. so the potential is there.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: TKs-KaBoom on August 09, 2012, 09:53:33 pm
game is complete shit, unplayable, wipe!!@!!!!!
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Rage master on August 09, 2012, 11:12:24 pm
Before big crash it was 250+ and we didnt use alts army at same Time because it was to early. After That it was all stright down every month. Abandommed game for 6months and shape of game was in big mess
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: chocolate_chip_cookies on August 09, 2012, 11:12:53 pm
Highest I've seen is 107 people this session...

There's 130 right now.. And I see it reaching up to 160 daily
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Rage master on August 09, 2012, 11:27:13 pm
Many people left because of troll updates...they should add rest of combat armors in game and fix bugs and crit for snipers. They were fine. Nerf bg, gatling crits and it will be fine
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Wichura on August 09, 2012, 11:31:26 pm
Nerf bg
Wow, there's still something to nerf in BG?
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: chocolate_chip_cookies on August 09, 2012, 11:33:41 pm
fix bugs and crit for snipers.
Have you been even playing this game? snipers do very good crits now
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Rage master on August 10, 2012, 12:12:30 am
No but i read about broken aim shots. For me crits were fine but i am not playing this game any more. And wichuj read more carrefoully and stop trolling my post. When i was playing you could deal 300-700dage in range with av or gat. It sucked hard. 1 shot 1-2kills
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Wichura on August 10, 2012, 12:48:51 am
I thought this is what BGs are for - to deal badass damage. Dumb me, sorry about that.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Roachor on August 10, 2012, 01:02:57 am
Wow, there's still something to nerf in BG?

Burst crits need to go for everything
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: T-888 on August 10, 2012, 01:19:12 am
Wow, there's still something to nerf in BG?

Avenger and minigun damage was buffed by approximately 15%(bullets shot/base damage changes), they add +3 damage per bullet on perks possible witch is roughly 30% damage increase of what 2xBRD gave for 40 bullets shot previous session(now it's 30 but high damage, very high damage per bullet), they remove BA from game witch is 3 DT less than normal combat armor, furthermore most of the builds are forced to play with MAmk2 otherwise get squashed by gatling gun witch is 5 DT and 5%(CA 40 DR, MAmk2 30 DR, but 5mm AP ammo decreases 35 DR, so 1 toughness perk DR doesn't even count while wearing MAmk2) DR less than BA for defense against avenger.

It was good balance previous session for PvP in general(few changes here and there, with some good discussion and it would have been perfect), mostly we had avenger builds/lsw/RL running around, but yes buffing miniguns was the right choice, stupid ... does not compute. Why these changes? Even more stupid to ask actually, because Solar is away and most probably for a long time.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: DocAN. on August 10, 2012, 09:09:50 am
Now its is even better, you have to use Your brain b4 you "click" the enemie. Gatling - prime target on CAs, Avenger - Metal/Tesla armors. Team need also Tanks who will take 1st wave of dmg on their torso. Some snipers to make a "drop weapon" hits, etc. Its more team organized now. We have constantly fights everyday since few weeks. The only problem are AC troll, but even them can be cutted with proper build - i think every troll heard the name Troll Hunter :D
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Rage master on August 10, 2012, 09:26:08 am
Dude pvp was allways like That. U had to use ur brain but now u Have instat death from crit burst and troll builds (or plasma sneakers).
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: greenthumb on August 10, 2012, 09:42:11 am
Dude pvp was allways like That. U had to use ur brain but now u Have instat death from crit burst and troll builds (or plasma sneakers).

Plasma sneakers was nerfed, i dont think they are so deadly. AC trolls arent so dangerous if you have special build.BG bursters are primary damage dealers, so you can nerf them to be usles. Anyway theres no such superduper build which cant be shot.

In real PVP you should have team full of counter builds, so whole team will not die from 1 sniper or other build. Btw iam not PVPer.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Rage master on August 10, 2012, 11:01:31 am
I was leader of CS and i know what i am talking about. I had gatling crit bursters and i could kill anyone with crit (300+ damage in range even vs tesla)
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: T-888 on August 10, 2012, 12:46:28 pm
Now its is even better, you have to use Your brain b4 you "click" the enemie. Gatling - prime target on CAs, Avenger - Metal/Tesla armors.

Yeah sure, differentiating the target to attack by color, mad skills. Doesn't it remind you of something else? In fact everything you described was just like that the previous session, that doesn't explain why primary damage dealing weapon was buffed to do even more damage.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Rage master on August 10, 2012, 03:11:00 pm
Even 285hp didnt help u against av or gatling crit burts wir better critical.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: DocAN. on August 10, 2012, 06:33:18 pm
Maybe becasuse you have wrong builds, keep thinking.
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: Wichura on August 10, 2012, 07:36:49 pm
Maybe becasuse you have wrong builds, keep thinking.
He was the leader of CS, remember. It's always fault of someone or something else, that certainly needs to be nerfed. How do you even dare to think of them having suckz-ballz builds?
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: McLooter on August 10, 2012, 08:21:50 pm
I still remember after update I was crit for 500 from gatling laser... (I was wearing tesla armor %100.)
Title: Re: Changelog 19/07/2012
Post by: BOS Armorer on August 10, 2012, 09:17:58 pm
Critical Bypas or very high damage crit. Or the fact that instead of 20-40 damage gatling now does 49-99 :/