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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: blahblah on March 11, 2010, 04:33:27 pm
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The problem:
Items in the game world are in excess quantities, and as such cause the server to behave funny. I believe a lot of items are left lying on the ground in bases of abandoned factions whose teams got bored with the game.
The proposed solution:
One quick way of fixing it would be to make factions disappear just like tents do. Of course the time should be set much longer (a month?) than that of tents. This solution, however, can be problematic for some, and will possibly be worse than what I am about to suggest.
In my view, each item that can deteriorate should lose their % over time. I suggest a value of 1% every 6 real-life hours. After the item breaks, 24 hours are needed for it to become broken beyond repair. Another 48 hours are needed for it to turn into dust completely.
The values listed are only an example that I believe is enough. 672 hours (28 days) for a 0% power armour to be gone, unless repaired, seems enough.
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I bet it's very very very hard to implement. But idea is good against mass weapon/armor storage.
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unused items do not detoriate, i dont see the point in your solution.
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Invent a vacuum locker - man, you could keep a dead brahmin there for ages, it wouldnt rot.
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Invent a vacuum locker - man, you could keep a dead brahmin there for ages, it wouldnt rot.
No, he suggested it not like "In Real Life", he suggested it against item storage. This suggestion is better for loners and not so good for factions/gangs.
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No, he suggested it not like "In Real Life", he suggested it against item storage. This suggestion is better for loners and not so good for factions/gangs.
I would really like to know how, in any way, this is better for loners and worse for factions. All i can think of goes vice-versa.
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Good suggestion.
But the timespan of duration will be hard to balance.
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Well, actually, only what this would be good for would be deleting unused items in abandoned tents/bases so the server lags less (similiar to nowadays 7-day tent system).
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I would really like to know how, in any way, this is better for loners and worse for factions. All i can think of goes vice-versa.
Omg, there're alot players who never played for crafters/crafters-fighters in thier life. You can even meet players 15+ level who will ask you "How do you get resources??!!" or "Why the hell do I need repair and science skills?", because they have friends or just they have a gang/base where they can get weapon/armor they need. Combat/Metal armors laying in this crate forgotten, till someone need to use it. They have storages of tones rifles and armors laying on ground. So, with this suggestion, fresh items will have advantage of old items. Loners usually using thier current weapon/armor. Yes, they have additional weapon and armor at crate in thier tent, but not like 100-200 pieces.
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I think current deteriorate rate is too high and you want to make items disappear completely? Imho whole item system in FOnline is absolutely not suitable for mmo when its possible to change plasma rifles like socks. For every day one rifle except Friday, that is Gatling Laser day... I would love to see the day when items in FOnline would be truly hard to get and every gun starting with shotgun would be valuable. I would love to see, that one player would keep one gun for 4-6 levels and he would take care of it and keep it in good shape. But that is not possible with current game mechanics.
Problem is that now its never ending cycle where you can get and loose a gun in matter of seconds. Its war between Fallout mechanics and MMO style. Currently its Fallout>MMO but I don't think, that trying to morph singleplayer into mmo without major changes in game mechanics is good way to go.
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Sius -> That's right. But don't be too pessimistic.
Don't tell me people that a combat armor can deteriorate in 28 days, when according to Fallout Storyline most of them come from the times before the war...
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lol imagine loners trying to survive, they leave their new crafted only gun in basket, next day they come and yell "WTF!" ohh the deteoriation is 60%!!!
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Newly created item = 0%. Assuming my rates of 1% an hour, for it to reach 60% would need 6*60=360 hours. That is 15 real-life days.
This is not a realistic solution. Just a solution.
And fine. I see people are more happy to see bases disappear after a month or so. I personally like it better too, but I wanted to find a less invasive way.
As a bonus, at least faction names will be freed more often. Taking up 200 new names in a week is WTF? I didn't know we had that many players even.
EDIT:
And yes, I am aware, and even purposefully making this suggestion to prevent some factions from hoarding millions of items that sit there unused until a new member dies.
As for Sius, well..
In order to use the same gun for 4 levels you would need to not get killed during that time. In order not to get killed, you need to play in southern regions and pick your fights carefully.
Then, if weapons would be rare, PKs would have even more fun killing people for no reason just to make the other person's life miserable. Also, crafting would need to be seriously limited.
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its not a good idea, gethering and crafting already take ages, this game more and more looks like Ogame
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28 DAYS. SIX HUNDRED SEVENTY TWO HOURS!
Can you even remember which item of yours could have been crafted that long ago?
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Cool. The CA you have crafted few days ago is already at 20%, so you lost 10% DR and 4DT...
And this minigun you just took in your base to come back to a fight. I shot one time and... fuck! Broken! Why? Because it was last in your armory and like you craft/loot them often...
No. Really i dont think it's a good solution. I prefer see base disappear.
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This is one of the most dumbass idea i have ever read.
Most entertaining thing on fonline is PvP. And i hope that this will continue. Maybe you dont realize it, but most of fonline players stay here because of PvP. If you want to join PvP, you need good equipment. The price in caps is cca 50k for one sniper, cca 100k caps for biggunner. All this stuff you can loose in 10 seconds of fight. So you need more stuff if you want to join all day at least one PvP. In one day, there are cca 4-5 big fights so if you want to join them, you need to store your crafted, traded, looted items.
I cant imagine, how we will repair all of ours 50 combat armors stored in our base. I dont count another guns..
please, focus your "ideas" on something else, maybe you can find purpose for all of the toilets in the cites. Good luck with this.
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Loners usually using thier current weapon/armor. Yes, they have additional weapon and armor at crate in thier tent, but not like 100-200 pieces.
It is actually not true. I play lonely char and i got massive storage in my tent, simply by lockpicking abandoned car(avan)s across wasteland. In whole life of this char, i gathered resources only 2 or 3 times, everything else was crafted from founded materials or already crafted by some kind person, and put it in caravan later. I don't want to even mention about thieves, which can collect stuff in no time (like this one (http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=718451#718451) ;)).
Items in the game world are in excess quantities, and as such cause the server to behave funny. I believe a lot of items are left lying on the ground in bases of abandoned factions whose teams got bored with the game.
Items deleting (or changing its attributes) is good for food type items, for example. Fruits should poison you if you leave it for long time (especially on ground :P). But your suggestion hits mostly loners and crafters, and lowers "fun" of playing when/if we end beta stage, and world wipe should not happen so often as now. Not everyone have time to play every day; when i "waste" X hours for crafting hi-tech stuff for smashing Enclave, i want it to be in same condition when i log in after two weeks cos of any reason.
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Most entertaining thing on fonline is PvP. And i hope that this will continue. Maybe you dont realize it, but most of fonline players stay here because of PvP. If you want to join PvP, you need good equipment. The price in caps is cca 50k for one sniper, cca 100k caps for biggunner. All this stuff you can loose in 10 seconds of fight. So you need more stuff if you want to join all day at least one PvP. In one day, there are cca 4-5 big fights so if you want to join them, you need to store your crafted, traded, looted items.
I cant imagine, how we will repair all of ours 50 combat armors stored in our base. I dont count another guns..
To join PvP you need a spear. Price of CA is 2 hours and 18 minutes. Price of Sniper Rifle is 58 minutes. Avenger Minigun is 2 hours.
You say there are 4-5 battles a day. Let's say you die once every battle. That means for a 5-person gang you need 20-25 CA and Miniguns a day.
But fine. I see you people will object to losing items even if it would take a whole year to make items go poof.
Deleting unused bases is even simpler for developers, I'm sure.
It is actually not true. I play lonely char and i got massive storage in my tent, simply by lockpicking abandoned car(avan)s across wasteland. In whole life of this char, i gathered resources only 2 or 3 times, everything else was crafted from founded materials or already crafted by some kind person, and put it in caravan later. I don't want to even mention about thieves, which can collect stuff in no time (like this one (http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=718451#718451) ;)).
This is actually not true. I play a loner character and I have just a handful of items in my tent. By simply crafting weapons when needed I avoided the trouble of having tons of crap lying everywhere. In the whole life of my character I have gathered all my resources myself. Thieves are not as useful now with Reputation implemented in game.
Items deleting (or changing its attributes) is good for food type items, for example. Fruits should poison you if you leave it for long time (especially on ground :P). But your suggestion hits mostly loners and crafters, and lowers "fun" of playing when/if we end beta stage, and world wipe should not happen so often as now. Not everyone have time to play every day; when i "waste" X hours for crafting hi-tech stuff for smashing Enclave, i want it to be in same condition when i log in after two weeks cos of any reason.
My suggestion hits only people who hoarde items. If it was 1% per 24 hours, then a loner or crafter would need to take a break from playing for 2 weeks in order for his 0% stuff to be 14% deteriorated. Your logic is flawed anyway, because tents disappear after X time (was 7 days, now it's longer I heard). So a person who has spent 5 hours looking for 10 brahmin to kill and get a tent (because he is a new player and doesn't know where to look), spent another 10 hours crafting plenty of guns for later, then takes a break from the game because of something, and his tent is gone!
With my initial 6-hours-per-1% suggestion they would be back to find everything in place, but at 40% deterioration. With 1%-per-day, they would find them at 10%.
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This suggestion was to help the server by making people want to use items more often.
If unused items broke, why keep them stored away? (Special found rare items could be excluded)
This would affect the mentality of people not to be afraid of using valuable items, and make less crap stashed inside bases.
I'm also doing my best to keep this civil, so GTFO with small additional personal comments like, "your ideas are stupid," and, "go away to join the other retards somewhere else."
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So fast (7 days) tents deleting was temporary solution to problems with memory, and we all know that. And it's not suprise to anyone, that it will be changed in near future.
It doesn't matter if you have 50x CA in base for faction use or 2x .223 in tent for own use - it will make game even longer than it is now. Or you *must* use item before it goes to det. level, when it is not usuable, or you must sell your stuff when it's in good condition (so you can buy new stuff when you stopped playing for some time). More cash in banks -> 0% interest rate will come faster than now.
This is actually not true. I play a loner character and I have just a handful of items in my tent. By simply crafting weapons when needed I avoided the trouble of having tons of crap lying everywhere.
Well, everyone play how (s)he like. You preffer to craft weapon for own use, and it's ok. I rarely have time for this, so my char stea--- borrow car full of stuff :)
Anyway, splitting it into two parts have more sense IMHO. First part - check when was last visit of any gang member on faction map. If it's more than X months (6?), your "items destroying" cycle begin (for tents, change time to 1 month and replace visiting map with loging on char). After some time, when all items are gone, location is removed and faction name goes back to available faction names list.
You can add lot of things that will happen meanwhile, like revealing location (with map changed to "ruined base" with random agressive npcs) to everyone 7 days before map deleting, or ability to make it a "backup" base for already existing faction etc. Just a fast ideas.
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wtf? i dont see the point in your suggestion. Many people in this game find it a lot of fun to craft/collect weapons and armors and leave them in perfect condition and for pvp they will be gone in a matter of seconds. Obviously you dont do enough pvps so u cant understand the feeling of somebody that spends a lot of time crafting/ collecting items and have them lost fast.Then items deteriorating over time too? Too much. Also, alone players who dont play the game a lot will suffer most. They will try really hard to get the materials to craft a rocket launcher (crazy cd as well) to hunt some centaurs then log off for 2 weeks. Next time they log in --> weapon broken --> tries to go to NCR to /s REPAIR MY ROCKET PLZZZ --> blubber steals his gun -->player leave game --> no growing community.
So seriously, you think items deteriorating over time is really a good idea?
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I was under the impression that the server will continue to be crashing randomly after a month since the wipe due to tons of items. If that's not the case, then I'll move on to my plan B) which is griefing the whole FOnline PvP community by finding 50+ players who will randomly kill people with spears.
wtf? i dont see the point in your suggestion. Many people in this game find it a lot of fun to craft/collect weapons and armors and leave them in perfect condition and for pvp they will be gone in a matter of seconds. Obviously you dont do enough pvps so u cant understand the feeling of somebody that spends a lot of time crafting/ collecting items and have them lost fast.
If the item is gone in seconds, why are you worried about it deteriorating 1% a day?
I get player killed randomly for no justifiable reason every now and then, and I'd say it is even more painful to lose your crafted equipment in a fight which you did not even want (as opposed to planned gangfights where everyone is more or less on level ground).
Then items deteriorating over time too? Too much. Also, alone players who dont play the game a lot will suffer most. They will try really hard to get the materials to craft a rocket launcher (crazy cd as well) to hunt some centaurs then log off for 2 weeks.
A player who logs out for 2 weeks most probably forgot what he even had in game, except for special stuff.
Next time they log in --> weapon broken --> tries to go to NCR to /s REPAIR MY ROCKET PLZZZ --> blubber steals his gun -->player leave game --> no growing community.
As opposed to current situation:
Player creates new account --> gets eyeshot in modoc before he knows wtf happened --> finally arrives at NCR where he is told it is safe --> manages to make tent after two days --> gets some items --> blubber follows him to tent --> player leaves game --> no growing community.
So, seriously, do you think letting people kill everyone everywhere is really a good idea?
All who stay, say yes. Hundreds who gave up, say no, they prefer WoW. It's a matter of preference and I'm happy the devs have some vision of their own.
So seriously, you think items deteriorating over time is really a good idea?
Not a really good idea, but seemed to push a few things in the right direction all at once.
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To join PvP you need a spear. Price of CA is 2 hours and 18 minutes. Price of Sniper Rifle is 58 minutes. Avenger Minigun is 2 hours.
You say there are 4-5 battles a day. Let's say you die once every battle. That means for a 5-person gang you need 20-25 CA and Miniguns a day.
OMG, what are you talking about. How can i challenge enemy in CA brotherhood armor with avenger, 700 ap ammo, rocket launcher with 5 ap rockets? Did you at least for one time joined the gang wars on this server? You need to have same equipment, because most of guns (cheaper than i wrote up) ar unbalanced and not usable in PvP.
CA BA is more than 2 hours, you must create basic one, CA model, then wait for countdown, then upgrade it (5 and half our = only upgrade). And before, you need time to collect resources, so many hours depends on ways of your collecting.
We dont die in every battle. That is the point. So we loot some stuff too. So we are repairing our broken or looted enemy stuff in battles, and we repair a lot... So i dont se the point of your suggestion. Yes, in real word stuff det... But this is online game. There must be balance between fun and realism. I think this game is not easy to play, but it is funny. Your idea is shit, it looks you dont have any combat experience, you have empty tent, because you dont socialize and you dont spent time by collecting res. and crafting, like our members.
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i was just making an example, but seriosly, itll harm a bit to factions, and harm very hardcorely to loners... i know how hard it is to be a loner, takes lots of time and pain to create one damn good weapon. some get by easier, but i know that not everybody do.
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how can a player forget what he has when in inventory there is ONLY 1 rocket launcher? Also i don't want to fucking log in to my alt to repair every time i want to PVP because armors deterioated. Even at 1% armors lose their DT and DR
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i was just making an example, but seriosly, itll harm a bit to factions, and harm very hardcorely to loners... i know how hard it is to be a loner, takes lots of time and pain to create one damn good weapon. some get by easier, but i know that not everybody do.
Not so hard... I only once looted PK's body, because there was his noobs friends, usually I never loot bodies, and it was not a problem to give away sniper rifles and metal armors to begginers (really, one of these begginers got more HP than me ^_^...) at Hub, also every my alt (and deleted alt, then recreated with same name) had a tent, etc. And I don't find it hard to get items at this game. But I don't have stock of 50 CAs and 100 sniper rifles. So it'll hurt gangs, not loners...
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I think it hurts everyone who want to use items in this game. What should be outcome of this suggestion? Reduce numbers of items owned by gangs or generally stored at tents/bases? Man I wonder how you could still discuss this. It truly is nonsense in both real and ingame world too.
I agree on that there is a need for some item reduction but that is just too soon to be done in this stage of development (it requires major item balancing and maybe even some radical changes in whole system as I posted before). But imho this idea would not solve anything, it would only make playing less fun.
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OMG, what are you talking about. How can i challenge enemy in CA brotherhood armor with avenger, 700 ap ammo, rocket launcher with 5 ap rockets? Did you at least for one time joined the gang wars on this server? You need to have same equipment, because most of guns (cheaper than i wrote up) ar unbalanced and not usable in PvP.
Every gun is usable in PvP. The problem is that players always want to deal max damage, so they use 1-2 top-tier weapons and ignore rest. Especially in RT where everything is decided by who eyeshots first.
CA BA is more than 2 hours, you must create basic one, CA model, then wait for countdown, then upgrade it (5 and half our = only upgrade). And before, you need time to collect resources, so many hours depends on ways of your collecting.
I said the times for a standard CA, not counting the cooldown and assuming 0 time lost, i.e. botting.
We dont die in every battle. That is the point. So we loot some stuff too. So we are repairing our broken or looted enemy stuff in battles, and we repair a lot... So i dont se the point of your suggestion. Yes, in real word stuff det... But this is online game. There must be balance between fun and realism. I think this game is not easy to play, but it is funny. Your idea is shit, it looks you dont have any combat experience, you have empty tent, because you dont socialize and you dont spent time by collecting res. and crafting, like our members.
Let me get this straight.. You don't want to have your items lose 1% of their quality a day because after every battle you already repair all the items you used and looted? Cool. My idea is totally shit, yeah. It has no logic whatsoever, none, nada. I'm just a retard and you are sooooo great, having fun losing all your items, but magically losing all of the fun factor because they aren't as good on the next day.
I think it hurts everyone who want to use items in this game. What should be outcome of this suggestion? Reduce numbers of items owned by gangs or generally stored at tents/bases? Man I wonder how you could still discuss this. It truly is nonsense in both real and ingame world too.
As I said. It is not a realism suggestion, but a gameplay suggestion. It hurts only people who hoard items, that is huge factions (who cry the loudest on any change) and people who just gather a tent full of items and never use even one.
I agree on that there is a need for some item reduction but that is just too soon to be done in this stage of development (it requires major item balancing and maybe even some radical changes in whole system as I posted before). But imho this idea would not solve anything, it would only make playing less fun.
Does getting killed by strangers for no reason and losing all your items NOT make this game less fun? I'm sure 95% of players will agree that it sucks to lose items. Things which are bad are sometimes necessary to make a game good.
Do you guys cry every time when doing PvP or travelling on worldmap you get hit and lose 1% of armour? Or when you shoot 10 rounds and lose 2% of your gun?
I give up, I see this will get me nowhere, but nothing you said pointed out a flaw in my idea. The only one I see is that it is surely harder to make than a simple timeout to make bases go poof.
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please give up, you suggested a suggestion to the public. They hate it...why? because its shit and uneeded. What is wrong with item hoarding? seriously, there are all kinds of people that plays this game. Some play for the purpose of pvp, some play to roleplay, hunting and collecting items/crafting high tier weapons/armor is just another way to enjoy this game. You just eliminated one of that fun factor by adding items deterioration. For a fact, my old gang would quit if this idea was implemented. Its a small gang with roleplayers and treasure hunters. They find it fun to go out hunt rockets, lsw, laser, avenger, gatling and stock them up. Please remember, no matter how hardcore this game is or how "harsh" the wasteland is. This is still a game and people play it for fun IN THEIR SPARE TIME. It makes me sad at reading these kinds of suggestions, it only adds to griefing and adds nothing to gameplay. People need to think up more fun suggestions.
bye
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I really cant get the point of this suggestion. Whats it about? Making it harder for factions? What for?? It also makes it harder for an average solo player as im sure they all have shitloads of stuff in tents (i mean, who doesnt?). Really, give it up, looks like noone likes it.
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please give up, you suggested a suggestion to the public. They hate it...why? because its shit and uneeded. What is wrong with item hoarding?
From my understanding it seriously fucks with the economy that devs are trying to make nice, and the more items there are, the faster the server crashes. I may be wrong, but nobody bothered to point it out to me, so without an answer I'm assuming I'm right.
seriously, there are all kinds of people that plays this game. Some play for the purpose of pvp, some play to roleplay, hunting and collecting items/crafting high tier weapons/armor is just another way to enjoy this game. You just eliminated one of that fun factor by adding items deterioration. For a fact, my old gang would quit if this idea was implemented. Its a small gang with roleplayers and treasure hunters. They find it fun to go out hunt rockets, lsw, laser, avenger, gatling and stock them up.
Nobody prevents you from repairing the items. Once every 60 days a guy with 200% repair and super toolkit could come and make them brand new and sparkling in half an hour.
Please remember, no matter how hardcore this game is or how "harsh" the wasteland is. This is still a game and people play it for fun IN THEIR SPARE TIME. It makes me sad at reading these kinds of suggestions, it only adds to griefing and adds nothing to gameplay. People need to think up more fun suggestions.
Actually, this is an open beta and what people need to do is treat it that way, not like a game that should be enjoyed right now.
Devs need a shrine elected and get their asses kissed at least once a day for giving us what we have now all for free and made in their spare time.I really cant get the point of this suggestion. Whats it about? Making it harder for factions? What for?? It also makes it harder for an average solo player as im sure they all have shitloads of stuff in tents (i mean, who doesnt?). Really, give it up, looks like noone likes it.
Really, try to understand what I'm saying.
If you are an average solo player, you hoard stuff. After you get 10 desert eagles you start scattering them around the ground. Then you get better stuff, but can't be bothered to clean up. Then you steal a dozen combat shotguns from an event, but they are valuable so you don't use them. The only time when people start using most of their stuff is near wipe. "Because it will go to waste anyway," so I'm trying to motivate players the same way here. Use your items, or if you don't care, let them disappear.
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All suggestions to make gangs/factions/bands weaker/slower are pointless I'm afraid. It's the simplest math - three people gathering/crafting/fighting are more effective than single one, no matter of skills. It's not a game about "how powerful and almighty I AM", but "how powerful MY GANG can be". "Faction mod", remember? I'm pretty sure that every group larger than 5 persons has at least one 200%+ repair char, so it will only hurt solo players without "repair alt" for their own. There was a dude, Martin Blues, "Wasteland Garage" - he was repairing your stuff for free. He got bored, died or found some other things to do, because I couldn't see him for a long time. Anyone else so kind and generous around?
Forcing people to do some specific actions ends mostly in exact different way - look at all events, or should I say "mindless slaughters", if GM will say "no killing".
And about ass-kissing shrine - I can definetely agree with that.
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Actually, this is an open beta and what people need to do is treat it that way, not like a game that should be enjoyed right now.
Devs need a shrine elected and get their asses kissed at least once a day for giving us what we have now all for free and made in their spare time.
Actually, if a beta tester can't find fun in a game he is testing then it is a fail game. Am i not right?
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Really, try to understand what I'm saying.
If you are an average solo player, you hoard stuff. After you get 10 desert eagles you start scattering them around the ground. Then you get better stuff, but can't be bothered to clean up. Then you steal a dozen combat shotguns from an event, but they are valuable so you don't use them. The only time when people start using most of their stuff is near wipe. "Because it will go to waste anyway," so I'm trying to motivate players the same way here. Use your items, or if you don't care, let them disappear.
Somehow i think you base your facts only on personal experience and logic. I still use crappy desert eagles and combat shotguns as much as P90's and sniper rifles. It just depends what i use for what (the better ones usually go to PVE, as its more easy to loose them in PVP). Forcing players to have less items just makes the game more harder. Not that i dont like hard gameplay, this is just unnececary harder. Just forces you to repair your stuff this and then. And whats the change? Well, someone gonna have to waste around an hour each week just to repair his stuff.
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All suggestions to make gangs/factions/bands weaker/slower are pointless I'm afraid. It's the simplest math - three people gathering/crafting/fighting are more effective than single one, no matter of skills. It's not a game about "how powerful and almighty I AM", but "how powerful MY GANG can be". "Faction mod", remember?
Where did I suggest making anything weaker? It's about making people think, "might as well use it if I have it," and about cleaning up after long-gone players.
I'm pretty sure that every group larger than 5 persons has at least one 200%+ repair char, so it will only hurt solo players without "repair alt" for their own. There was a dude, Martin Blues, "Wasteland Garage" - he was repairing your stuff for free. He got bored, died or found some other things to do, because I couldn't see him for a long time. Anyone else so kind and generous around?
I'm guessing the poor guy got fed up with being treated as an NPC with interaction limited to, "hey, repair this. thanks."
And even a person with 0 repair will have more than enough time to use his items. If it were 1% a day, then unless it's a magic armour of awesome +5, anything you will "use in a little while," but postpone for more than 30 days, isn't really going to get ever used.. Or do you know someone or yourself stashed an item for later use and all the time remembered about it and used it 40 days later?
Actually, if a beta tester can't find fun in a game he is testing then it is a fail game. Am i not right?
Good point. It depends on what stage a game is at, but yeah. I probably went too far with that.
Somehow i think you base your facts only on personal experience and logic. I still use crappy desert eagles and combat shotguns as much as P90's and sniper rifles. It just depends what i use for what (the better ones usually go to PVE, as its more easy to loose them in PVP). Forcing players to have less items just makes the game more harder. Not that i dont like hard gameplay, this is just unnececary harder. Just forces you to repair your stuff this and then. And whats the change? Well, someone gonna have to waste around an hour each week just to repair his stuff.
I wouldn't call the deagle and combat shotgun crappy. Especially the latter can do serious damage against deathclaws even.
But meh. So let's get rid of bases after30 days of inactivity.
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blahblah, i tend to stock up on items myself, and i can tell you exactly what i have in my tent with Kurgan, my slaver/armorer/treasure hunter, and i personally think that this suggestion sucks all the life out of my career, with this nobody will even want to buy stuff from other players, thus halting the economy completely all because they can't stock up on weapons to use for a later date, i've had a few low level players with a bit of cash buy one of my snipers so that they could store them til they can get to an adequate level, if this is implemented then that will be absolutely unnecessary for that and a loner with an occupation such as myself would suffer immensely since i will lose my only source of caps and through that adequate equipment and materials for crafting my protection, this reply may have flaws but so does your suggestion, in fact, if i had the time i would poke holes in it throughout the next 5-7 hours, but i have pressing matters to attend to within my real life, something you have obviously not taken into enough account in your suggestion.
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What if I burn out and leave the game for a while?
Should I lose everything?
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What if I burn out and leave the game for a while?
Should I lose everything?
Well, if you don't visit your tent for a timespan of a few weeks, it will be deleted.
So "sort of" item detoriation is already in.
To be honest, I don't find the idea of the OP so stupid.
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blahblah, i tend to stock up on items myself, and i can tell you exactly what i have in my tent with Kurgan, my slaver/armorer/treasure hunter,
But you are playing the game on an at least semi-regular basis. If you hadn't, then you would not have a tent any more.
and i personally think that this suggestion sucks all the life out of my career, with this nobody will even want to buy stuff from other players, thus halting the economy completely all because they can't stock up on weapons to use for a later date, i've had a few low level players with a bit of cash buy one of my snipers so that they could store them til they can get to an adequate level,
Armour indeed can be less attractive with 5% det as compared to 0%, but guns? To use a sniper with high accuracy you need maybe a week of casual playing. 1-2 hours per day where you go shoot stuff on PvE. After 2 weeks of lying in a tent, the sniper they bought would be at 14%. That's around the same as it would deteriorate after using it to kill stuff for an hour. Is losing 1% a day so bad? I'd say 1% per two days, but then you'd need 230 days to make an item disappear, which is outrageously long given that wipes occur more often than that.
in fact, if i had the time i would poke holes in it throughout the next 5-7 hours, but i have pressing matters to attend to within my real life, something you have obviously not taken into enough account in your suggestion.
I did. I did! :/
I stated clearly that the time to lose 1% is up to people to decide :<
One percent people, one percent.
What if I burn out and leave the game for a while?
Should I lose everything?
Yep. You already lose your tent if you do. And if you keep your stuff in a base, then other players can maintain it or use your stuff instead of you.
To be honest, I don't find the idea of the OP so stupid.
*does a happy-dance*
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I find it bad because of the ammount of micromanagement of silly stuff necessary. I go for a week and I lose a tent. Yeah, right, big deal or no big deal it's gone. And with this system in place I'd have to spend quite a lot of time on maintaining almost all of my equipment. For this reason alone this suggestion is utter bullshit - it really is as mundane, boring and repetitive as the ones concerning eating and hydration. And honestly, "Armory Maintenance: The Game" is never going to be even half as fun here as it is in Jagged Alliance 2 v1.13 no matter how hard you try ;D
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Heh, yeah. I always had a good time with my equipment in JA2. :D
Thanks for the good memories.
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The only bad thing in this thread is crying of players, who are afraid. Really, when I crafted alot sniper rifles, what I do with it? Of couse it laying in my tent... it was so boring, so I equiped metal armor and sniper rifle and then started to shoot at guards in town, and do other stupid things, because I don't know why do I need so many rifles. Also I got alot assault rifles, but I just disassembled it all for metal parts and junk for faster crafting sniper rifles, which I wasted/gave later.
I don't find good:
- "Ehh, I have 100 miniguns laying in my base, and you?"
- "Damn, I don't have room for my combat armors, they are laying everywhere, and I don't know why."
- "Oh, post-nuclear world is so harsh, we're so poor!"
- "Yeah, children in towns are starving, but I have only 50 bazookas, 535 sniper rifles, 50k .223 ammo, 300 laser rifles, and nothing to give to poor children!"
- "Nuclear war is cool! We have more equipment, than before! I want second nuclear war, so we'll have more guns laying everywhere, it'll be cool!"
- "But what will you do with equipment?"
- "Hmm, make screenshots and show everyone how much guns I have?"
- "Yeah, exactly! That's good, that "Items deteriorating over time" suggestion by blahblah was rejected, 'cause of crying children, who want to have alot equipment laying everywhere!"
- "Ok, good luck, I going to make more miniguns for.. errr... don't konw, nevermind."
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Real problem is abundance of items. Why don't you come up with something what would replace bad system with good one instead of focusing on how to reduce already bad feature with even worse solution?
Or do you think we should be playing in wasteland with tons of items that decay over time? I would prefer lack of items and especially ammo but with stability in their condition.
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Real problem is abundance of items. Why don't you come up with something what would replace bad system with good one instead of focusing on how to reduce already bad feature with even worse solution?
Or do you think we should be playing in wasteland with tons of items that decay over time? I would prefer lack of items and especially ammo but with stability in their condition.
You are right. The real problem is items are too easy to get, but how can you balance that?
There are two sides of FOnline. One is gangs of people grinding 24/7 and doing whatever they can to be better than other gang. The second is single players or tiny gangs which can't even enter a northern city without dying in one second.
So if you make items take more time to craft - gangs will still have plenty, but single players will have even less.
If you make looking for items more time consuming - gangs have a lot of time and a lot of people, single players are alone and have less time.
Maybe make getting items require looking in caves and fighting tough monsters? - then single players won't get any, and large gangs will find a way to suicide-kill anything.
Balancing games is hard. Especially when losing everything is very easy, gaining new items shouldn't be hard. But then the human mentality kicks in saying, "I can lose it fast, so I better stockpile."
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No cooldowns! Whole crafting system is based on cooldowns. You don't need to put a lot of effort in order to get materials its just job for patient people. I've already posted my suggestion about that in other thread http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=2464.0 .
Imho system of "search -> reward" is better than "click -> wait" and I think with that system it would be easier to limit item numbers. But essentially its not only about crafting, its about whole game and its mechanics starting with item cycle get-use-die-loose and ending with item balance and there are many changes that would have to take place in order to actually reduce item numbers in wasteland and change it from tons to few and make hi-tech stuff truly unique. One change would not solve that over night no matter how radical or in this case (item deteriorate over time) silly it is.
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No cooldowns! Whole crafting system is based on cooldowns. You don't need to put a lot of effort in order to get materials its just job for patient people. I've already posted my suggestion about that in other thread http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=2464.0 .
Imho system of "search -> reward" is better than "click -> wait" and I think with that system it would be easier to limit item numbers.
Search -> reward. Forces the player to search for stuff for 2 hours and as a reward, he gets an item. Click -> get item -> wait. Allows player to 1) Get item, 2) Do other stuff at the same time. So in the end he gets items and can get experience or talk with others in Hub.
Please explain how it is easier to limit item numbers if they were hidden on maps.
Remember that big factions will do everything they can to get an advantage, so they will enter the huge map in 10 people and will find items within a minute or two. Also, such huge maps with creatures mean that TB players are fucked.
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I like the idea of hunting/having to kill for items rather than mining them.
That said, don't expect the devs to go for it, either. They seem very, very set on the crafting system as it is.
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Search -> reward. Forces the player to search for stuff for 2 hours and as a reward, he gets an item. Click -> get item -> wait. Allows player to 1) Get item, 2) Do other stuff at the same time. So in the end he gets items and can get experience or talk with others in Hub.
Please explain how it is easier to limit item numbers if they were hidden on maps.
Remember that big factions will do everything they can to get an advantage, so they will enter the huge map in 10 people and will find items within a minute or two. Also, such huge maps with creatures mean that TB players are fucked.
Search -> reward pretty much forces players to do other stuff while looking for materials. You see group of rats that decided to build a nest near your precious ores so guess what. You will have to eliminate them. Also big maps = scavenger opportunities and show me player that will resist to search abandoned gas station..
Big factions will do everything they can to get an advantage every time no matter what conditions you set. If its search -> reward they will PLAY together in order to get materials faster. If its cooldown based they will create more crafters and chain-craft stuff anyway. The difference is that with search-reward bots are absolutely useless (cause of limited amount of materials obtained from a source) so people HAVE to search and if they want to get more, they will have to search more or search in parties. Who does farm material in group now?
TB is a problem and maybe there could be technical solution that would limit TB only for field of view of person who triggered it leaving rest of the map intact. Or simply remove TB in huge encounters and divide encounters in 2. Regular small and huge accessible trough word/town button while standing in the dessert.
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What about selling items to the NPC traders? maybe they will maintain them? Items could not deteriorate in traders equipment. It would make useful crafting for a stock, but you will have to rebuy items from traders, when you want to use them. It will make stocking possible, but expensive and not so sure, and it will bring life to economy. It will make barter skill more important, and there will be much crafted items in shops. However, gangs will still have adventages, couse they will just need have one barter char in gang.