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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: T-888 on April 27, 2012, 05:10:16 pm
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I have determined the current field of view system , ineffective and obsolete in comparison of what i am going to suggest. There are players who believe a simple outline correction would significantly improve it , i don't disagree with that though i have different take on it with a unique solution along. Current field of view does exactly what it has to and what it's made for , it's called view for a reason and it just provides pure sight depending on ingame characters perception. Now that i pointed this out , i must say perception is more than just pure sight. So here's the catch.
I thought of a way how to simulate sound through sight and what the player can see with the characters ability to notice and be aware of actions that would produce sound - to hear. This is already partially simulated in a way , whenever you see another character behind you , it doesn't mean that your character is aware of him by sight , you are. That is explainable that your character has a certain amount of perception that allows him to " hear " , notice his presence by sound. Nobody has eyes in back of his head , right ? :)
So i am suggesting the ability to see running , animation making , talking characters even through walls and any kind of obstacles whenever they are producing some sort of action that figuratively speaking are making sounds that way rendering and simulating the ability for your character to hear.
Following examples. Imagine a building and your near it's one corner , behind it there is another character that's running , until he stops running and your advanced FoV ( Field of Sound ? ) doesn't reach him anymore , he would appear to you visible. Whenever normally invisible ( sight blocked by building , obstacle ) character shoots ( makes certain animation ) he would appear visible to anyone that reaches him with advanced FoV. Of course it would have different range than normal fov we would see.
* yawn * Take it or leave it. I don't have to motivate anyone , suggestion will do it for me if it's good enough for developers and community. Though i will answer questions if some are made.
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I was going to make an insightful comment by improving this idea and critisize a two important points that should be corrected... Perhaps appraising the topic starter... But, *yawn* i have no desire to do it either.
Since the suggestions should be backed up by support of community, which to dismiss would be fatal, both of us could have as well write nothing.
But i was bored, so...
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Trust me there's nothing to criticize except details , people don't do anything else on this forum other than split hair. Seriously , developers make their own game if they like that idea , they will implement it whether community likes that or not ( and trust me with their own details as always ). Tell me one good reason why i should discuss with you anything ? I had idea to just PM this to developer and that's it.
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They should fix current bugged fov. They? Fix? lol?
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*yawn* then do it.
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Too late , already did it public. ( btw there's a high chance of possibility that you just want to criticize stuff that you just didn't fully understand , i'm not on this forum the first day , common shit actually. ) Players make their decisions before they even start discussing and before raising any questions. So please , sue me and call me arrogant but that's the way it is.
They should fix current bugged fov. They? Fix? lol?
I know. I was waiting for them to fix existing fov and then suggest this , but who knows when that will happen , i decided to suggest it anyway , since there are a lot of players that have their own projects , my idea is free of charge after all. :) They can take it and twist it how they want , for all i care. Don't care at all.
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If you haven't cared you should have not written at all. But tell me - why do we post in Suggestions anyway? Post count? I don't see any other "productive" reason for this.
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If it was in a very limited distance from the player (5-10 hexes max), then why not.
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If you haven't cared you should have not written at all. But tell me - why do we post in Suggestions anyway? Post count? I don't see any other "productive" reason for this.
I care to explain my stand on this , but as i stated i don't care much who uses my idea and how they twist it.
Suggestion topic is for players themselves actually , if you haven't noticed developers rarely take part in discussions about them publicly , they have their own forum too. So when we are discussing ideas and splitting hairs here publicly , they do the same thing if they consider the suggestion worth to implement. Sounds logical right ? So when i say i might as well PM a developer , if he likes that idea , tell me one good reason why he wouldn't bring it up on their own forum for discussion ? Unless some developer really comes here now and tells me that something i write here makes a difference. The odds of that happening ? Well think for yourself.
If it was in a very limited distance from the player (5-10 hexes max), then why not.
I didn't go into details much , don't see them very important , but yes i had in mind something like that for running. If guy shoots , it only makes sense that your character would be able to be aware of that from a further range right ? Gunshots loud , running not ? Rings a bell ? :)
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*shrugs*
I was lazy so i made a rhetorical question to make you start explaining and state the obvious. So thanks for doing the typing.
Btw, i share your point.
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I have been holding back saying this but i cannot hold it anymore: i think T-888 has a strong mind.
I like this idea - clearly it makes sense. I agree that a char running behind a wall makes noise you can detect by FoC even if not by FoV, but i suggest that a hidden player's name should not appear. Also what they are wearing might factor in, as well as maybe gender. (Girls can sneak up on a guy sometimes lol).
Question: which key do you want to use for this? FoF is W. FoV is Q. FoC could be....E? And what color?
(FoF=Field of Fire, FoV=Field of View, FoC=Field of Compression)
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Thank you very much. I appreciate honest people.
The idea about hidden nicknames while " heard " is very a good one , wasn't aware of that possibility , makes sense. I suppose metal armor could be very noisy , the bulk of armor has to be a factor. Though i don't think the sex and age of a character should have any impact , mainly due to imbalances that would have to be balanced. So if female is more sneaky , male less , then male has to have some bonuses. I think that calls for a separate suggestion , then there could be many more differences like male having more strength and female more agility , but come on let's not make this so detailed , after all it's only a game. :)
Compression ? The word has many meanings , didn't find any that fits. I already pointed that out , something simple FoS - Field of Sound. I don't know why but i feel like the color has to be yellow. Dunno. :)
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FoS to me for some reason comes out "Field of Sight" by [my] mistake. Audible sound is compression-based, so that's why i suggested calling it FoC but it's your idea so you call it.
I have been saying for a long time that a female char should not get to ST 9 or 10. But making that kind of change might lead to more complications like...different Traits based on gender. Different topic.
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I didn't go into details much , don't see them very important , but yes i had in mind something like that for running. If guy shoots , it only makes sense that your character would be able to be aware of that from a further range right ? Gunshots loud , running not ? Rings a bell ? :)
One season, right after wipe, there was a bug, when every player had omnivision and could not only see the same distance in the back, but could see people behind wall and I must say, it was a total BS.
But the problem with gunshots and sounds in general is that you cant tell exact hex where did it came from, just direction and distance. Having some powers that let you detect an enemy behind 7 walls and show him on the same hex he actually is seems supernatural to me.
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But the problem with gunshots and sounds in general is that you cant tell exact hex where did it came from, just direction and distance. Having some powers that let you detect an enemy behind 7 walls and show him on the same hex he actually is seems supernatural to me.
It's a bizarre game environmental and this suggestion is the way how to simulate sound as best it's possible , mainly due to current field of view flaws. Let me point out one flaw , your doing TC and taking cover below sheriff and suddenly there's 20 people taking cover right from the building and next thing that happens is rockets start flying , players dying and bad language on TS. Does that make sense to you ? Or you are going to mine in reding mine and gather resources , after that you are gonna check if there's someone in city to chat and have a good time that every new player tries to do once in a while , but then suddenly around the casinos corner you eat thousands of kilograms of pure metal , body parts flying around and there's few guys providing bad language while your waiting for respawn. Character has the ability " to hear " other presence behind him , but not behind a wall ? I must say those guys behind the casino just teleported there , smells supernatural.
Just come on ... :)
I explained very well how this all is considered as sound detection , if you have a better idea how to do it. I'm all ears.
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But what might happpen if everyone would be aware of someone hostile behind walls ? Surprise element - gone, while camping element (=not to make a single move because of sounds) would flourish.
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Surprise element would still be there , i guess i didn't mention that walking would render your character undetectable ( i thought that's natural to understand ) , unless of course you give away your position by fire and only your POSITION , it's not like you are going to shoot and be visible all the time from that point on. These are extra factors how to be aware of other players , i think current field of view does a poor job of that , that's why there are enough players that prefer no field of view at all. This feature would have it's part in player interaction , as well make PvP more tactical what certainly isn't a bad thing.
In the end i seriously would call field of view complete , finished with the implementation of this feature. Superior to both current and no field of view.
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The current fov (I mean the working, pre wipe one) can of course br improved on, but I very much dislike the idea of revealing an enemies exact location as someone pointed out already.
People who played cod/cs in a ladder know how important sound is and a good headset and soundcard was mandatory in cod2. However, you still dont have the enemies exact location, you could only roughly tell where he was but not if he was in front of behind a wall, if he was on top of a building or on ground level.
I think a better solution would be to grant every player auditory perception based on his PE, but not hindered by walls. After that we would only need a sound that only plays when somebody is running. Compared to t888 idea this is more realistic as you couldnt tell what weapon the enemy is wielding and the number of enemies would also have to be estimated.
On top of that it should be implemented together with an on/off switch with the default set to off, so that it doesnt bother anyone who doesnt want it and can only be turned on if you have pvp (obviously the perception of the sound, not the emission). Walking would have no sound.
With this idea you would also give away your location with the idle animations when the char is checking his guns, could also be fun.
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I think a better solution would be to grant every player auditory perception based on his PE, but not hindered by walls. After that we would only need a sound that only plays when somebody is running.
Now this would be very confusing if you heard everyone's sound who shoots and runs nearby , i disagree sound for running isn't necessary. Sound gives away position , in this case it reveals it for you for a small period of time what is completely acceptable by me , due to this clunky field of view that is a blind run all the time unless you have scouts in each corner of the city. When a player shoots and reveals himself for that second the animation sound will be played anyway , so you need to have good awareness of what's going on , to not mistaken it by friendly fire for example. Tactical ... when you hear a player in counterstrike , cod and whatever , you pretty much know his position already ( the only thing that is really difficult is to predict where exactly he is moving , same shit would be in fonline , that because someone is revealed for 1 second , doesn't mean that he will be at the same position next time you go there ). I have played tons of FPS.
Compared to t888 idea this is more realistic as you couldnt tell what weapon the enemy is wielding and the number of enemies would also have to be estimated.
Realistic is not the goal. If weapons animations sound is played , you pretty much know his weapon already. :)
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I just really prefer a true line of sight to a permant line of sight. this season's sneak detection and fast relog has already ruined the information gathering anyway, back in the day killing the enemy sneak still meant something.
I'm afraid that your concept is too radical though, we'd just have a gameplay with a pretty much permant line of sight, except that there's more camping. It also makes sneaking less mandatory and it would finally boil down to trolling as its sole reason of existance.
But I guess it's impossible to implement stero sound into fonline anyway and without it even my idea is pretty much impractical.
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Don't over exaggerate , there would be no permanent line of sight. Please , have some imagination. Walking would have it's purpose , and especially that there is constant movement while fighting , that second that you were revealed for someone behind a corner , doesn't make you seen all the time , only provides more information. Provides information that is usually gained by proxy sneakers. Seriously , cheating bad teams would have less advantage from scouts.
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He eithers moves and you exactly what is he doing or he stops and you can be sure that hes in the same spot as he was before. I dont think walking will be used in large scale, fast-paced actions.
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Would it ruin running through doors and around corners one hexing?
On the other hand it might help with higher ping players loading other players faster.
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Would it ruin running through doors and around corners one hexing?
One more use for sneak skill, if "hearing" will be the same as current FoV, but much less radius and independent on directions, then not-so-high sneak skill may allow to you to stay unnoticed from "hearing" FoV and you still can ambush others, especially if your victim isn't 10PE+SS sniper. In other words, hearing FoV will have some penalty to max distance and work the same as current FoV, but ignore obstacles.
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But I am 2 or 3 int powerbuild ape RavenousRat, My 3 int can only afford few points in sneak, my 2 int can't at all :\
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But I am 2 or 3 int powerbuild ape RavenousRat, My 3 int can only afford few points in sneak, my 2 int can't at all :\
Then you will be unable to do unexpected 1hex bursts! Easy.
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One of the main reasons I play on 2238 is because this server has the best combat mechanics with none of this see through walls crap and you can run in combat, nothing is more satisfying than running around a corner and blasting the first person you see for 300 damage and killing him instantly then running back and doing it all over again, even with my shitty ping it's much easier to land a one hex than out in the open moonwalking all over the place.
But if you want to implement something like this then I will suggest another thing to build to it: add some feature to a radio like item where you can type a command "/decoy" and then the radio will play a recorded gunshot sound for a few minutes and you can drop this radio behind a wall or corner, where other plays will see the image of some player shooting until they run around the wall and see it's just a radio on the ground with pink writing over it *bang bang bang*.
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But if you want to implement something like this then I will suggest another thing to build to it: add some feature to a radio like item where you can type a command "/decoy" and then the radio will play a recorded gunshot sound for a few minutes and you can drop this radio behind a wall or corner, where other plays will see the image of some player shooting until they run around the wall and see it's just a radio on the ground with pink writing over it *bang bang bang*.
Well if this advanced fov is ever implemented , save this for another topic. There's already very much to this suggestion.
Everything that is possible now , will be possible with the implementation of this feature. Read below.
He eithers moves and you exactly what is he doing or he stops and you can be sure that hes in the same spot as he was before. I dont think walking will be used in large scale, fast-paced actions.
This can be used very tactically to confuse enemy , run up to a corner and then walk away , changing your position. Though i was thinking like only 5-8 ( 5 for 1 PE and 10 for 10 PE , each 2 PE raises it's range ) hex for a average BG out there to hear footsteps. So for one hexing , you will be able to walk to the corner those 5-8 hexes and if someone else will run , you will be ready for him , but he certainly not. So i think walking will be used very much , at least smart players will. :) It's not like all game consists around corners and 1 hexing big gunners , so don't push this too hard. :)
One more use for sneak skill, if "hearing" will be the same as current FoV, but much less radius and independent on directions, then not-so-high sneak skill may allow to you to stay unnoticed from "hearing" FoV and you still can ambush others, especially if your victim isn't 10PE+SS sniper. In other words, hearing FoV will have some penalty to max distance and work the same as current FoV, but ignore obstacles.
This.
I was thinking that any amount of sneak should render your character completely undetectable by footsteps. This all is just revolutionary.
tag skills
bg , sneak , doctor
put enough sneak for silent running , use doctor bag and go 1 hexing around corners like a boss. Be aware of the possibilities , i think all this is very cool. :)
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You said they would be detectable when talking. That would make sense in the the context of field of hearing BUT it would be unfair for some. Because a lot use mumble or other voice-chat so they're able to communicate with each other without talking in-game. While for others, voice-chat is disruptive in their home environment and they don't use it.
So, those using voice-chat software that's not even part of the game will have even greater advantage over those who talk in-game.