fodev.net

Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Gob on March 18, 2012, 09:15:57 pm

Title: Nerf grenades
Post by: Gob on March 18, 2012, 09:15:57 pm
My 200 hp character got killed with 1 plasma grenade I even had 2x toughness. It's clear that they are overpowered. And I'm sure I'm not the only one complaining.
Title: Re: Nerf grenades
Post by: solid snake on March 18, 2012, 09:22:07 pm
i assume it was a crit? maybe game mechanics involving crits should be adjusted not plasma grenades themselves. also, toughness only adds normal resistance.
Title: Re: Nerf grenades
Post by: Perteks on March 18, 2012, 09:30:34 pm
it was probably bypass :D 200 hp is very low and plasma nades don't need to be nerfed just silent death and sneak both are imba. Srsly when i run from bg on sneaker its like 7 hexes when he dont see me and 18 from sniper its not imba? 21 nades range D:
Title: Re: Nerf grenades
Post by: Vandal on March 18, 2012, 11:06:13 pm
Critical from plasma nades with silent death are ruining the gameplay. Combat armor has 4/50% plasma resistance and plasma nade still does insane crits also sometimes it knocks you down... I mean seriosly? I have been pissed off so many times because of this stupid and idiotic feature I can't remember... Some troll comes with 2 plasma nades that costs 400 caps and he just you know easy mode rambo style pwn the guy with gear that costs about 20k caps. You were critically hit for 204 and knockdown. You were hit for 56 and killed. Why the fuck devs implemented this perk anyway? Death to no life trolls! Make it work with melee weapons or something but make it balanced. The guy from 21 hexes and nothing to lose expect 2 nades or should I say 400 caps, going to towns and doing 300 dmg with 2 nades to top gear guys? No fucking way. Delete. Remove. Nerf. Whatever it takes.
Title: Re: Nerf grenades
Post by: Crab_people on March 19, 2012, 02:33:30 am
it will be nerfted stop crying, sd is little op
sg - fine like it is +add ap needler ammo. dont give us 223 pistols (it will be 200+ crit)
bg - fine no sd (lsw and bazooka)
ew - laser pistol is little so strong
trhrow - remove sd from grenades, leave to knifes and molotovs
unarmed/mele - for me it should work only with unarmed and mele
Title: Re: Nerf grenades
Post by: Gob on March 19, 2012, 06:14:43 am
it will be nerfted stop crying, sd is little op
sg - fine like it is +add ap needler ammo. dont give us 223 pistols (it will be 200+ crit)
bg - fine no sd (lsw and bazooka)
ew - laser pistol is little so strong
trhrow - remove sd from grenades, leave to knifes and molotovs
unarmed/mele - for me it should work only with unarmed and mele

Fuck you don't tell me to stop crying I lost 250k because of that cock sucker.  :'( :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: Nerf grenades
Post by: naossano on March 19, 2012, 09:59:41 am
Don't forget that :
- You must stay sneaked otherwise you're fucked up.
- You must reach the back of the guy or you're fucked up.
- The guy must not rotate or you're fucked up.
- If the guy survive, you're fucked up, as you are unsneaked and deliver 10 times less damage. (as sneak are not great warriors, it means dead)

So, in theory you are already a lot more nerfed than any other pvp char, that can be dangerous any time, at any sides, for a much bigger range.

So maybe the auto-crit could be changed in 80%-crit, but removing the feature is not, in my opinion, the right move, as it would break a lot of characters. (which are considerably long to px)
Title: Re: Nerf grenades
Post by: Vandal on March 19, 2012, 10:04:51 am
- You must reach the back of the guy or you're fucked up.

Lol not true. It's wide area and that's fucked up
Title: Re: Nerf grenades
Post by: Hidden on March 19, 2012, 10:08:30 am
Lol toughness give only + to normal protection (SG weapons, melee/unarmed and some big guns)
Only way to protect from insane granade crits are to take Man of Steel and wear good armor.
Title: Re: Nerf grenades
Post by: Vandal on March 19, 2012, 10:24:50 am
Lol toughness give only + to normal protection (SG weapons, melee/unarmed and some big guns)
Only way to protect from insane granade crits are to take Man of Steel and wear good armor.
Because you wrote this I assume that you play with plasma troll build. "Wear good armor" and combat armor isn't good? I lol'd
Man of steel will not do shit because silent death is auto crit...
Title: Re: Nerf grenades
Post by: Perteks on March 19, 2012, 10:26:35 am
Troll build is unarmed with HH :p sneaker with sd is just op, coz sneaker should be for scouting not for one hit kill
Title: Re: Nerf grenades
Post by: Crab_people on March 19, 2012, 02:59:58 pm
Because you wrote this I assume that you play with plasma troll build. "Wear good armor" and combat armor isn't good? I lol'd
Man of steel will not do shit because silent death is auto crit...
ca suck against energy
Title: Re: Nerf grenades
Post by: solid snake on March 19, 2012, 03:26:07 pm
Man of steel will not do shit because silent death is auto crit...

man of steel gives -10 to the crit power table roll not chance to crit
Title: Re: Nerf grenades
Post by: Crab_people on March 19, 2012, 03:34:24 pm
same CA and ma mk2.
Title: Re: Nerf grenades
Post by: T-888 on March 19, 2012, 04:03:37 pm
Solar i warned you how buffing sneak is going to make a big mess.

i assume it was a crit? maybe game mechanics involving crits should be adjusted not plasma grenades themselves.

There are 2 kind of critical hit tables that determine the nature of untargeted shots ( torso shots ) and aimed , both are responsible for damage multipliers and effect appliance depending on critical rolls randomly generated when shot is made.

It's not a problem to alter those tables , but let's say you change untargeted shot critical hit table and make damage multipliers significally weaker that will make all criticals done to torso make less damage , not only those done by plasma grenades.

Though i believe they can alter some scripts and make it happen that you throw a grenade your damage is just cut down , but what good that will bring ?
Title: Re: Nerf grenades
Post by: solid snake on March 19, 2012, 05:14:25 pm
well maybe take away fact that silent death adds +10 to crit power table roll. with that and better crit its doing very powerful damage output and even causing knock down and out effects.
Title: Re: Nerf grenades
Post by: Floodnik on March 19, 2012, 05:32:58 pm
There are 2 kind of critical hit tables that determine the nature of untargeted shots ( torso shots ) and aimed ,
There are different tables for all the body parts, not just unaimed/aimed.
Also, I've heard that aimed torso shots have different tables than unaimed shots, even if the critical chance doesn't change :F
Title: Re: Nerf grenades
Post by: T-888 on March 19, 2012, 06:08:11 pm
Taking away that +10 critical roll would be a good start how to balance the feature out , that roll could still be applied to HtH and pistols ,  but that's not enough. Current game mechanics doesn't allow much flexibility how to balance it out , though i think it's possible to come up with something reasonable.

I was thinking of increasing MA , CA  body armor resistances to plasma damage. It would partially make those critical hits a lot less effective , wouldn't affect other weapons but at the same time making plasma grenades without silent death much more useless as they currently are  and it wouldn't affect bypasses at all witch would still lead to " one shot gg situations ". That's not an option , so i was thinking ....

it's not a trait but a perk , but still ... -10 to roll using grenades would make it kinda reasonable. The possible damage multiplier is lower , so it would make a lot less damage on average. Too powerful perk , then why not give it some drawback to balance it out ?

There are different tables for all the body parts, not just unaimed/aimed.

There is one critical hit table for all the aimed shots and one for untargeted shots. Unless atom is lying or the information is just outdated.

There are theree main differences: first is the reworked critical hit table (still WIP).
Second, there is a separate critical hit table for an uncalled shot (they were present in FO2, but unused; uncalled shots were identical to torso shots).

http://fodev.net/forum/index.php/topic,1188.msg10637.html#msg10637
Title: Re: Nerf grenades
Post by: Kelin on March 19, 2012, 06:22:06 pm
There is one critical hit table for all the aimed shots and one for untargeted shots. Unless atom is lying or the information is just outdated.

http://fodev.net/forum/index.php/topic,1188.msg10637.html#msg10637
I believe it's outdated, I've read somewhere (don't remember where though) the same as Floodnik did.
Title: Re: Nerf grenades
Post by: solid snake on March 19, 2012, 07:08:16 pm
it's not a trait but a perk , but still ... -10 to roll using grenades would make it kinda reasonable. The possible damage multiplier is lower , so it would make a lot less damage on average. Too powerful perk , then why not give it some drawback to balance it out ?

-10 would makes sense because you do in fact INSTACRIT! also getting the better crit perk along with you will have a +10 to the roll which i think is reasonable.
Title: Re: Nerf grenades
Post by: Floodnik on March 19, 2012, 07:53:25 pm
There is one critical hit table for all the aimed shots and one for untargeted shots. Unless atom is lying or the information is just outdated.
Read carefully what Atom said. He said that there is a separate critical table for uncalled shots. That doesn't mean that all the aimed shots use the same critical table...
Anyway, think about it. If eye shots would use the same tables as arm shots, shooting into eye would cripple your arms...
Title: Re: Nerf grenades
Post by: naossano on March 19, 2012, 10:43:20 pm
I think the best solution is to lower the % of making a +10 roll crit.
So you still keep chances to deliver as much damage, but you have some chances to not achieve it.

So it would remain possible for a silent death character to deliver good damage/kills. The character wouldn't become useless. (so the perk)
Consired all the malus said above. Nerfing too much would make the improvement useless again.
Title: Re: Nerf grenades
Post by: Catoptromancy on March 22, 2012, 03:00:16 pm
Simple. Silent death does not work with burst weapons. Grenades and molotovs are burst weapons.
Title: Re: Nerf grenades
Post by: Vandal on March 22, 2012, 03:03:40 pm
If you are behind enemy you score +50% damage or something like that, not auto crit with bypass and knockdown shit. That's how you can balance silent death
Title: Re: Nerf grenades
Post by: ToxiCAVE on March 25, 2012, 03:20:47 am
Remove sd from grenades. Simple
Title: Re: Nerf grenades
Post by: Michaelh139 on March 26, 2012, 12:28:51 am
It is such a "NO-SHIT Sherlock" situation.

Remove sd from grenades. Simple

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Title: Re: Nerf grenades
Post by: Floodnik on March 26, 2012, 12:32:22 am
SD naders can take Spray and Pray which ignores opponents' armor critical modifier, 100%.
SD melee users have the super pumped Hit the Gaps which ignores A TOTAL OF 25% OF OPPONENTS' ARMOR CRITICAL MODIFIER!
MUST TAKE!

Who the fuck even designed this perk
Title: Re: Nerf grenades
Post by: vilaz on March 26, 2012, 05:55:45 pm
Hahahaa... whole this thread. Thats it. I'm done.
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18973490/reaction%20faces/gifs/1330224891252.gif)
See ya next major update.
Title: Re: Nerf grenades
Post by: Roachor on March 27, 2012, 12:38:19 am
I think my idea solved the problem best, remove the ability to crit for bonus damage from AOE weapons (nades,rockets,flamer) and replace it with an effect like cripple random limb.
Title: Re: Nerf grenades
Post by: Tomowolf on March 28, 2012, 03:12:26 pm
Remove overall that perk be usable to grenades, because its silent death , and greandes are making "boom" not "fart".
I was killed like 5 times by those plasma nades, and there is no excuse for that, but killed with weapon that cost 300 caps~ and is craftable by 10x pieces per one time, is just hilarous.
I don't know if dev's didn't think about it before they implement so shitty perk inside...
I just lost hope for this shit.
Title: Re: Nerf grenades
Post by: maciek83 on March 28, 2012, 03:19:17 pm
i second removing sd from grenades

the author of a thread should make a poll so devs can see