fodev.net
Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => General Game Discussion => Topic started by: Kyle on March 11, 2012, 10:06:15 am
-
Hello everybody.
I'd like to hear your opinion on this situation. I do not know, if it is common or same for the rest of the wastelanders trying to survive in this world, but I find pretty difficult to find footlockers in the urban encounters. Even if I find one I mostly cannot open it (lockpick 175 + lockpickers) and if I manage to open it (hallelujah) there is nothing valuable inside (treasure hunter just for fun?). I mean, is one cap or some junk worth of searching those crap footlockers in meaning, that someday (week,month,year), there will appear some usefull blueprint?
Thank you. ::)
-
As i heard, its common. Keep in mind, that according to devs, even if you have 300% skill, and lockpicks, you still CAN'T open some lockers.
Welcome to my wrold. the world of annoying features.
-
I'm glad I'm the not only one in this world,unfortunately... So from today, I give up finding blueprints, it's getting on my nerves...
-
Also, treasure hunter is bugged and makes you find 1 caps instead of 200-300.
-
lvl up to 300 % of skill, not often but sometimes i got lockers not to unlock, sometimes i try few times to open it.
-
I've got a feeling,that everything in this game which should help you is against you :D
-
I've got a feeling,that everything in this game which should help you is against you :D
No kidding. I could swear the RadAway I took radiated my character more.
-
Treasure Hunter must have been implemented on opposite day.
I feel your pain, OP. I'll look for 20 minutes and not find a single encounter with a locker, out of dozens. Then I'll find a small handful of lockers. Some are unable to be opened, leaving me with about 4 an hour that I can actually open and retrieve the contents from.
I've said it before, and I still believe that this is a bad choice of game features. Here's to hoping it changes, but I'm done worrying about it myself.
-
Even if I find one I mostly cannot open it and if I manage to open it (hallelujah) there is nothing valuable inside.
This should be a subtitle for whole 2238 :)
-
I've been doing some bp finding lately (soon a month in row) and would like to say few comments about the whole subject.
It seems blueprints are divided into rare and common.
It seems treasure hunter doesn't work.
Finding blueprints is demotivating grind. I personally do it in one window, and do other stuff in second window when I can't find any encounters or wait for lockpick cooldown. In addition I try to entertain myself by having irc and internet browser open aswell. Chest hunting is totally not something that keeps you excited all the time and you want to play it in fullscreen.
However it appears that not everyone is willing to do that so there are those who have the patience to grind blueprints and those who don't. This creates a scenario where blueprints are actually valuable merchandice. Also it is very exciting to find a new blueprint.
But in the end what will happen is that those who like to find blueprints will find what they need and quit the whole thing. Once I find ca, ca helmet and metalmkii helmet BPs, I'm out. Maybe some others will keep doing it because for example ca set blueprints are extremely valuable, except for those who already have them.
-
I think they should ease up the chance to find high tier blueprints , their so many after all. Less grind is always appreciated , some blueprints are so rare that finding them you will quit automatically and that's it , i'm so tired of this blueprint farm that i don't even bother to sell them anymore i don't want to see a chest anymore.
-
I think they should ease up the chance to find high tier blueprints , their so many after all. Less grind is always appreciated , some blueprints are so rare that finding them you will quit automatically and that's it , i'm so tired of this blueprint farm that i don't even bother to sell them anymore i don't want to see a chest anymore.
It's cool they are rare because it provides us with things we can sell. Blueprints are honestly stuff people want to buy, it would be sad if anyone could just go and search some encounters and get the best ones. What's the point in that case. It's good that we have a "haves and don't haves" situation. It's cool that players specialize into something.
Some people will always have such attitude that they want everything now and don't want to deal with other players. Should we listen to them?
What should be done is to make bp searching fun. It can be time consuming as long as it's fun. This can be done with solid mechanics and good features.
For example a quest where you have to penetrate a vault filled with monsters and other dangers. It has several levels and the deepest ones are the most challenging but also have guaranteed chance to find one of the best blueprints. You go there alone and if you die, it's game over. Otherwise people will abuse the shit out of it.
As a tradeoff to guaranteed chance to find them, blueprints should have expiration time to increase the longevity of the feature. Blueprint could have for example 30 uses and then it expires. How does that make any sense? It doesn't, but that makes people want to have more blueprints all the time.
-
what about creating 0.1% chance that you find a blueprint on casual rider
that would eliminate boring grind and having to create lockpick alt
-
...
I agree with you , but ...
by high tier i meant only CA blueprints , improved flamer , their rare as fuck it's either you find it or you never have it. If someone finds those blueprints only an insane player will keep farming them more , to find a duplicate ... i'm not delusional.
-
I have a great Idea, since they do everything to kill this game off, why dont they make people use up bp when they craft an item ? every time u craft a ca u need the ore and a BP that is wasted. 8)
-
Considering the effort put into making a character that can take on these encounters and find these lockers. (meaning can't just be an int mule without help, and can't be a full combat mule unless you level to cap just to get the 300% lp and at least 125% traps or FA) That is a ton of effort to MAYBE get a bp, and meanwhile you can't actually play the game, you can't level your 'main' cause you're too busy using yet another alt to get job done. I've played a TON of rpgs, and mmorpgs, and I've grinded my ass off for things, but Never to this extent for such little pay out. Several hours for nothing, least in the other game you'd have gotten some useless item you could sell for something, or a BP you've already picked up that you could sell. I've gotten 0, ZERO, notta, Bp's in my searches, now we're only talking 6 hours a day for 2 days, (I just couldn't do it anymore) And the one locker that with 300% LP, and lockpicks that wouldn't open after 9 tries, probably had one, but I was soo frustrated at seeing "You fail to pick the lock." "Needs Key." I had to move on.
I really do NOT think they should be a dime a dozen, but considering all the OTHER limiters on crafting now, it shouldn't be such an ordeal just to get the bp to f'n look at. I know where the Dev's were trying to go with this system but it's just way outta hand, alt, alt, alt shouldn't be an answer, and that much effort just to get an item that might help you make another item, if you can safely get to the place to craft it, let alone get back to your own f'n base to give the bp to someone who can use it, since you're on yet another alt. Wasteland is Harsh, but it's a damn game for the sake of all that is holy. Imagine getting that CA bp, and like the kid with the Golden Ticket running home, (Red Lightning Bolt) You encounter (Red Name) "You were critically hit in the eyes for 87 points, You were critically hit in the eyes for 73 points" Replication in 58 seconds... And your only reward for all that effort, is to YAY do..it..all..over..again!
-
From what devs said , i understand that the idea was that most of the needed blueprints are hard to find , so that players eventually would get enough duplicates for some blueprints and trade with each other to obtain the necessary ones or just buy them. To some point all that really works , maybe until majority of players stop trading because they have enough blueprints or can't buy/trade the necessary ones , that is partially okay it's only a matter of time till players get all blueprints they need. Everyone wants to be self-sufficient , i understand that (despite it's meant to be a multiplayer game) but in order to achieve that ...
players need to invest a lot of time , nobody likes that. Either you try to find or buy them , it still consumes a lot of time. Then there are those blueprints witch you either find or you never have them , some of the players here on forum know how hard it can be to find CA blueprint , because most of the players haven't found it yet and never will.( seriously it's that ridiculously hard to find , i can back that up )
The question i was asking myself , why? Why something like that should be so time consuming , hard to do? I'm pointing this out that i myself a player playing in a big faction can tell that ... fuck wasn't easy to get blueprints nor trade for them , were sick of those bp actually never want to see another box. So i'm guessing how the hell smaller groups or just some lone crafters can manage all this madness.
this is feeeeeeetback ......
It's cool they are rare because it provides us with things we can sell.
It's not cool to spend a lot of time , if you buy a blueprint you know that guy spent x time opening boxes , shit some of those can't be opened so everyone tries at least 2 times , if that is a box that can't be opened that's already 5 minutes wasted. In the long run that time adds up and ... fucking ridiculous. It does make like no sense at all.
yes , fucking ridiculous that is my personal inquiry on the matter.
If i will need to farm those blueprints again , i think i will blackout and start chewing my desk. Just come on make them buyable at some gun runners , all of them for raw amounts of caps the more rare , more cash needed.
-
It should be possible to reverse-engineer items for blueprints.
Science the item for materials = sacrifice item to learn how to make it.
Better items may require multiple attempts.
-
It seems that currently blueprints only increase the gap between casuals and power gamers, between solo players and factions, and the most: between newcomers and old timers. While in general, the idea behind blueprints isn't so bad, the amount of grind attached to them at the moment is just.. yeah, demotivating.
-
(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/7867/grindmore.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/207/grindmore.jpg/)
The amount sold and used is ... quite insane 3 digit numbers for sure. Still not all blueprints have been found.
So i'm asking developers is this some way how to troll us ?
It seems that currently blueprints only increase the gap between casuals and power gamers, between solo players and factions, and the most: between newcomers and old timers. While in general, the idea behind blueprints isn't so bad, the amount of grind attached to them at the moment is just.. yeah, demotivating.
Agreed.
-
They are the sadists, You are the masochist, You know You like it, Im sure They do
-
I opened about 250 footlockers for now, and about 75-100 that couldn't be open. I have been doing this for 20 days (few hours per day). Found 12 blueprints. I will not pick lock footlockers anymore.
-
Looks like I'm not the only one who is (pardon me to say this) pissed off of finding something, which should increase fun in this game. I mean, personally, I agree, if this game is difficult, I agree if it should be freakin hard, but not damn impossible. Wasteland kills everyone, no matter who you are, but the same way blueprints bring everyone to death. From that reason, i just keep running in leather armor mark II and everything is fine...why? Cause there is no other chance to get something better...even if I wanted to get something better, I am not able to get caps for it...ah...war,war never changes..so do people in wasteland.
-
I like it how it is. It's hard. Max difficulty. Nightmare mode. And most people will drop out of the blueprint race leaving guys like me leading the pack. Yay.
Meanwhile i have some numbers to share. I hit 289 populated urban encounters while hunting BP. Of those, i found lockers in 57. Of those 57 lockers, i was able to open 44 using a Lockpick 300 guy with Luck 10, Agility 9 and Perception 9 (+bugged Treasure Hunter). Of those 44 i opened, 5 had blueprints.
That's less than 2%. That means ~1 out of 50 encounters has a BP. All 5 of the ones i found were duplicates of ones i already found. That essentially means i found nothing of immediate use (unless i trade them).
In those same 289 enc, i also found 16 car wrecks, 3 of which had a useable FCC.
I'll keep going. I want 5 complete sets of all the BP in the game. (lol)
Oh also, any non-PK who wants some CA or other high-end gear, PM me and we can go make some stuff at an advanced workbench somewhere. I can make CA, LSW, etc but i need backup since solo i seem to lose 3 out of 5 items due to the "harshness of the wasteland".
-
I like it how it is. It's hard. Max difficulty. Nightmare mode. And most people will drop out of the blueprint race leaving guys like me leading the pack. Yay.
Meanwhile i have some numbers to share. I hit 289 populated urban encounters while hunting BP. Of those, i found lockers in 57. Of those 57 lockers, i was able to open 44 using a Lockpick 300 guy with Luck 10, Agility 9 and Perception 9 (+bugged Treasure Hunter). Of those 44 i opened, 5 had blueprints.
That's less than 2%. That means ~1 out of 50 encounters has a BP. All 5 of the ones i found were duplicates of ones i already found. That essentially means i found nothing of immediate use (unless i trade them).
In those same 289 enc, i also found 16 car wrecks, 3 of which had a useable FCC.
I'll keep going. I want 5 complete sets of all the BP in the game. (lol)
OCD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsessive%E2%80%93compulsive_disorder)
Must
Have
Moar
E X P L O S I V E S
!!!
-
Actually if the devs could double the rarity of finding BP to 1% instead of 2%, it might help. Because then more people would go mess around in Reno or whatever and let players like me get an economic foothold on the entire map.
Oh and i tried using a lighter to set my blueprints on fire. It didn't work. What's up with that?
-
Actually if the devs could double the rarity of finding BP to 1% instead of 2%, it might help.
That would mean that those who seek ca bp for month, "only" have to seek for it for 15 days + the time it takes to level a lockpicker.
-
I remade my doctor as doctor-lockpicker because blueprints appeared in game and it was impossible
to get most of them otherwise. I tried to hunt for some doctor blueprints. It took me 2-3 hours to
notice it doesn't make sense. Never tried again.
I pity people who waste a month of their real life to be able to craft some silly armor in a computer game...
Now, to devs...
Game progression based on random chance and boring repetitive tasks is not good IMHO.
I understand there were supposed to be some quests to get BPs. I understand making them takes time.
But if you put on server unfinished feature, when the only part that is ready is boring, does it make sense?
Why not wait until it's actually playable? Or at least boost the chance to get BPs for the time being?
It's similar with flares (sigh). Their only function was aesthetics.
You added timer because they are supposed to have some other function. But it's not implemented.
So basically you took away the only nice function this item had and gave nothing in return.
Why not simply leave them without timer until you add some real function to them?
I try to understand the logic behind these decisions, but for me it makes no sense.
I could go on. Crafting recipes. There are new recipes, cool. But you didn't implement ways to get the
required materials. It takes time, I understand. But then what's the point of putting on public server
the new crafting recipes in the first place? This I can't understand.
Players go through horror to get BPs and then they learn that they can't even use them.
Why not simply use the materials that can be obtained in game, for the time being?
-
Wasteland is HARSH !!!
-
The lockers suck.
We need at least 1 more way to obtain blueprints, or raise the chance of finding them... something.
Hunting footlockers for the 5 prints I need waste over half my time in this game.
-
UPDATE! I am still early in collecting new data but so far it looks strong:
It is MUCH better to hunt them with a non-Treasure Hunter character. I switched to an alternate Luck 10 guy and i am finding lockers 11 times out of 36 and 8 opened, and 2 blueprints found. This is much better than the numbers i posted earlier when hunting with a Luck 10 Lockpick 300 guy with Treasure Hunter.
Also, i know this will be hard for some of you to take because i know it has been said that Treasure Hunter perk only applies to caps found, but i am now very certain this is not true. It seems when i find lockers with a non-TR guy, i find miniguns and laser rifles in there! Not just leather jackets and radios.
The only thing i changed was character. Still hunting the same zone as before, and no client update or program patch detected.
Observations
Do NOT get Treasure Hunter perk yet (old news)
Hunt lockers with a non-Treasure Hunter character for better yields
Better yields applies to gear and caps both
Locker contents are generated when encounter is found, not when locker is opened
-
Locker contents are generated when encounter is found, not when locker is opened
how can u know this one?
-
how can u know this one?
I find it unlikely it could be any other way anyways, but he could've gotten a GM to check it.
-
Yes its like the ye old chicken or the egg question, does the loot spawn when you enter the encounter or does it randomly generate when the locker opens hmmmm! GEE MIND BOGGLING!
Actually I am curious as to how much luck factors into this, has anybody done a 1 luck lock picker and 10 luck lock picker and compared? It would be useful to know, doing high agility high perception sacrifces endurance to tank all the land minds...
If its possible to do a 1 luck locker picker and it has no effect it would be a good strategy to make a max hp lock picker and bring some stimpacks to blow up the mines.
But the issue at heart yes treasure hunter does not work correctly, this is nothing new but for anybody who reads these things that is new and hasn't heard this from other players or on irc yes do not take the perk until there is some update that confirms that it has been fixed or changed.
-
I called it an "observation" so you're right to question it. I cannot know it without looking directly at the code. I did not have anyone check the code - i cannot do that - i don't know anyone on the team.
All i have on this is my data that i collect the long, slow way by playing the game and altering one variable at a time. Even then, to do this kind of thing right, it takes hundreds (if not thousands) of trials to get truly reliable conclusions. That's why i led in with "I am still early in collecting new data but..."
UPDATE to yesterday's data, same area
106 encounters, 30 lockers found, 20 opened, 2 blueprints, 3 bear traps, 1 landmines, 3 cars, 0 FCC.
Hunter: Luck 10, NO Treasure perk
Opener of lockers: Luck 10, Agility 9, Perception 9, Skill 300, uses picks, with Treasure perk.
-
I find it unlikely it could be any other way anyways, but he could've gotten a GM to check it.
So with treasure hunter you find all stackable items by 1 quantity most of the time , without it you will find multiple quantities of stackable items , find encounter without TH and open it with a character who has TH , you will get stackable items in multiple quantities ... then if you think really hard it tells us something :)
-
I opened Unlockpickable chest with Voland and we found only 1 junk and 1 caps, so spawn items in lockers are random...
-
.... you found that encounter with a character that has Treasure hunter , it doesn't matter who opens it in that case or what locker is it.
Voland has checked that more than once , we all have our buthurt that those unlockpickable lockers have some major items , but those lockers are just with a ridiculous lockpick difficulty level. Nothing more , nothing less.
-
On top of all what's been said: the method used to find blueprints supports dual logging enormously. The more windows you can open to roam worldmap, the higher chance you have to find boxes and blueprints. If you search with 4 chars at the same time, you will find blueprints 4 times faster than a guy who uses one window. This needs to go.
-
how can u know this one?
Like in patch notes, where they stated that lockers which would be without any loot will not spawn anymore.
-
On top of all what's been said: the method used to find blueprints supports dual logging enormously. The more windows you can open to roam worldmap, the higher chance you have to find boxes and blueprints. If you search with 4 chars at the same time, you will find blueprints 4 times faster than a guy who uses one window. This needs to go.
I think its good feature but make it less time consuming by fixing the treasure finder perk.
-
I think its good feature but make it less time consuming by fixing the treasure finder perk.
How can you say that if it directly supports cheating? Open more windows = find more chests.
-
open more windwos get busted, if someone wants to cheat that bad fuck it, let them. theyll eventually get caught and lose the chrs that they do that shit with. sure they can make new ones, sure it wont stop proxy abuse, but you know whaT??? it doesnt matter, its a fucking game and assholes will always find a way to abuse it. but really? opening multiple windows to find treasure is hectic at the very best, managing that much shit while avoiding pks and encounters? sounds a little to complicated for your average cheater. a smart guy would just set up a bp buying auction and kill whoevers dumb enough to show up, as evidenced by the people who pulled it off (antypk)
-
open more windwos get busted, if someone wants to cheat that bad fuck it, let them. theyll eventually get caught and lose the chrs that they do that shit with. sure they can make new ones, sure it wont stop proxy abuse, but you know whaT??? it doesnt matter, its a fucking game and assholes will always find a way to abuse it.
Well, dual logging was allowed if you don't fuck over other players so it's not really a cheat, just a loophole. If I was hotshot bp searcher, I sure as hell would use multiple windows with proxy if there was a danger of ban. The ammount of time spent on finding blueprints is so incredible that you'd do anything to shorten it. Even if the chance to find blueprints was increased it wouldn't help. Faster is faster, that's how powergamer sees it. Don't tempt players to cheat, make solid features that can keep players interested and busy with one character at a time.
but really? opening multiple windows to find treasure is hectic at the very best, managing that much shit while avoiding pks and encounters?
Use sneakers. Mobs won't attack them instantly if you're busy with another window. You can level a sneaker capable of this work in few hours. To avoid pks, don't go where they are (boneyard). Blueprint hunting is mostly clicking on wm screen and checking out encounters.
Players want to keep busy, that's why they open more windows, either of fonline, irc or internet. So that also answers the question "Why is avv always at #2238?".
-
I sure as hell would use multiple windows with proxy if there was a danger of ban
Eh. Proxies are easier to find than players think. It doesn't protect you from ban, but it puts you in danger of permaban.
This week one proxy dual logger got permaban already and it was the first time I was checking it.
-
Well, dual logging was allowed if you don't fuck over other players so it's not really a cheat, just a loophole. If I was hotshot bp searcher, I sure as hell would use multiple windows with proxy if there was a danger of ban. The ammount of time spent on finding blueprints is so incredible that you'd do anything to shorten it. Even if the chance to find blueprints was increased it wouldn't help. Faster is faster, that's how powergamer sees it. Don't tempt players to cheat, make solid features that can keep players interested and busy with one character at a time.
Use sneakers. Mobs won't attack them instantly if you're busy with another window. You can level a sneaker capable of this work in few hours. To avoid pks, don't go where they are (boneyard). Blueprint hunting is mostly clicking on wm screen and checking out encounters.
Players want to keep busy, that's why they open more windows, either of fonline, irc or internet. So that also answers the question "Why is avv always at #2238?".
Yes leveling over 9,000 lock pickers and over 9,000 logging sure sounds like a lot of fun. It can easily be done without cheating, you could just set up multiple lockpickers in a bunch of encounters and fast log between them which isn't cheating, and is pretty much the same thing. Its not like you can do this simaltanously on multiple screens.
-
UPDATE (same area)
200 encounters, 52 lockers found, 36 opened, 2 blueprints found, 10 trapped (3 landmines), 4 cars, 0 FCC.
I am also finding many friendly players in these encounters. Thanks to those of you who are not PK'ing us hardcore lockpicker types as we struggle to grasp the math involved, ultimately for the benefit of all.
The 2 blueprints above were dymanite and .223 pistol. The pistol is available via a quest, so i feel like it's the worst one i could find. The dynamite is a duplicate - now i have 2. So in all this time spent doing this, well...i'll just stop talking right there.
New players who are thinking about hunting blueprints: do not let my numbers discourage you. This is only one player, hunting one area. Results vary. But if you try this part of the game, you should be prepared to spend hours and hours and hours not finding much.
-
i just found ma mk 2 and lsw bp in 5 min:D
-
Don't tempt players to cheat, make solid features that can keep players interested and busy with one character at a time.
I suggested a really solid feature how blueprints could be distributed to players , of course everything has to be some major , far-fetched plan for player interaction or just keep players wasting ridiculous amount of time on plain stupid features like no offense your " over time consumable blueprints " in order to enjoy the game. The simple idea has been told millions of time by major amount of players , that nobody likes to spend a lot of time on features that don't allow them to enjoy the game. I cannot put that more simple than that.
It's a thin line between enjoyable and annoying when it comes to player interaction and features around it , so don't ask me why i think that is not solid.
This is just " No data available " for me , you make a good point that players shouldn't be tempted to cheat because of how the features been built , but at the same time you support features that just naturally makes players cheat and do ridiculous stuff to bypass some of the game mechanics to make their time easier.
So can anyone tell me what the fuck can be done at all ?
-
i just realized it in a moment of clarity an epiphany if you will. make bps required for crafting the items in the required items to craft it.
by making bps non consumable like how books were required for gun crafting. this would fix alot of the issues surrounding blue prints and increase the playability factor. at the moment the only people with blue prints are people who waste hours searching in the same spot (me included).
so everyone would have the items on their profession list but wouldnt be craftable until obtaining a blue print or possibly borrowing one from a friend.
-
This actually makes sense. Imagine, that we are in real world and you need a plan,to know,how to make a gun. You wouldnt eat it or destroy it. ...
-
so everyone would have the items on their profession list but wouldnt be craftable until obtaining a blue print or possibly borrowing one from a friend.
Cool idea. I like it
-
I still see no point in that modification. It would change practically nothing - it only makes borrowing bp possible, what means their cost goes down and it becomes more common.
And it was said bilion of times - FO isn't real, it does not suppose to show reality, so stop talking about bullshit like "hey, in real it looks like that - lets make it like in real!".
-
I still see no point in that modification. It would change practically nothing - it only makes borrowing bp possible, what means their cost goes down and it becomes more common.
And it was said bilion of times - FO isn't real, it does not suppose to show reality, so stop talking about bullshit like "hey, in real it looks like that - lets make it like in real!".
Actually the biggest issue with FOnline is the distinction between real and fantasy. That's why the term "The Wasteland is Harsh." Is the best excuse used by people who don't want things to change, just read the "Thieves Overpowered" thread, but you do bring up a valid point about using that suggestion it won't really change the underlying issue. You will still need an alt, you will still need hours of mindless useless leveling to get that alt ready to then spend more hours trudging through encounters to maybe get the bp you don't have yet. The fact of them not being used up would only change the actions of people once they have them, and I don't think they would go down much in price because of the effort involved in getting them would not change.
-
I still see no point in that modification. It would change practically nothing - it only makes borrowing bp possible, what means their cost goes down and it becomes more common.
And it was said bilion of times - FO isn't real, it does not suppose to show reality, so stop talking about bullshit like "hey, in real it looks like that - lets make it like in real!".
So let brahmins carry guns, let mutants fly, let cannibals use laser gatlings.... comparing with reality is not bullshit. Almost everything in this game is trying to get closer to the real life situations. Dont shit on me just because I said, that it makes sense and sounds good...