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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Closed suggestions => Topic started by: Pennybags on February 26, 2010, 06:40:35 pm
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Now, I realize this might not be so popular among some people, since most people use 1 charisma builds for min/maxing characters for PvP. But, if you want to balance the game system a bit better to try and prevent people from putting 1 in a stat, what about making 1 charisma characters attacked by everyone in random encounters?
Towns could still be based on their faction reputation, but with the frequency that you run into large patrols and caravans in the world-map this would make it more of a bitch to run around with 1 charisma.
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I like it.
I'd also like to restrict 1/2 charisma characters from joining groups, as well as leading them. If your character is built like a loner, expect to play as one.
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i like the suggestion.
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Me too.
"Omg it's that hideous freak from NCR!" "Shoot it!"
I think this should only apply to Charisma 1 characters, though.
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People take 1 cha for a reason, there aren't enough points so you have to minimize one attribute and charisma is the least useful.
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What does everyone have against 1 charisma? You already nerfed people with low CHA to hell. Remember we can't talk to traders, can't take quests for easy xp. We can't lead people, we can't get mercs, we can't slave.
What about other attributes at 1?
People with 1 luck should get a -20% to their hitchance modifier, why? because they are so unlucky.
People with 1 endurance shouldn't be able to run since endurance could be compared to stamina, and they don't have much of it.
People with 1 Pe should just get a negative bonus check agains't stealing, simply because they barely can see, feel, hear or smell things.
But those things aren't ingame, yet everyone with 1 cha gets massive negative effects trown at him. Give people with low Cha a break man.
Still not happy? Want a good solution? Here's one:
Add more quests for people with charisma, they need a minimal 4 charisma to do them. However the quests are easier and the rewards are better if the player Charisma is higher. (This is already the case with most quests anyway)
Give people who follow leaders with high charisma a combat bonus doesn't have to be big. This gives people a reason to have a character with 10 charisma.
Give People with a decent charisma AND speech a chance to talk their way out of a raider/bandit ambush, they aren't as tough as a pvper so give them a chance to solve things peacefully. (afcoarse this should give a xp reward)
The higher onces Charisma the cheaper mercs should be for that person.
There's a couple of suggestions that wouldn't be so negative for people with low CHA. And it gives people with higher charisma a good reason to actually have the charisma.
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I agree with GroeneApell 100%.i have a 1 charisma character,and the only reason why is i needed 6 luck...So if i have gotten 6 charisma and 1 luck,i would be perfectly fine(without the criticals of course).But since i got 6 luck and 1 charisma,i can hardly do anything social with NPCs.What im saying is,if you're going to nerf one stat,nerf the others to balance it out.
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What about other attributes at 1?
People with 1 luck should get a -20% to their hitchance modifier, why? because they are so unlucky.
People with 1 endurance shouldn't be able to run since endurance could be compared to stamina, and they don't have much of it.
People with 1 Pe should just get a negative bonus check agains't stealing, simply because they barely can see, feel, hear or smell things.
In Fact, with 1 luck you can't be a good medic.
With 1 endurance you are a dead guy... or the first guy to die during a fight.
With 1 PE, you have a very bad hitchance (I think you have a +8% modifier for each PE point)
If the most of the character have 1 CHA, as Pluto say, it's to be able to have 6 Luck. That mean that a 1 CH character can have most of the fighting perk (Better critical, more critical, bonus ranged damage, thougness)... Most of the character with CH can't have them.
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But, if you want to balance the game system a bit better to try and prevent people from putting 1 in a stat, what about making 1 charisma characters attacked by everyone in random encounters?
Towns could still be based on their faction reputation, but with the frequency that you run into large patrols and caravans in the world-map this would make it more of a bitch to run around with 1 charisma.
I'm not against the idea itself, but I don't like to see people getting attacked and when they defend (cause that is, when someone attack you and you shoot back) themselves, their reputation with the factions going low, so they can't enter the city at all. So you have only option to run. But that is already a matter for example when you spawn too close to caravan in turn based, so this should be fixed somehow. If someone attack you, it should be legal to shoot back, but I can also see, how this is gonna be abused (provoke caravan to kill them without any reputation change).
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Nah, low stats should just provide less benefits, rather than more disadvantages. People take low cha because it's not encouraged enough to take higher.
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Nah, low stats should just provide less benefits, rather than more disadvantages. People take low cha because it's not encouraged enough to take higher.
I do agree with this. I actually like Pennybags' idea, but perhaps put in reverse. If you have high charisma, a lot less things attack you in random encounters. If you have max charisma, random encounters pose no danger for you.
Similarly, mercs should be an investment - meaning if they die, you can go back to the recruitment office and pick up a free replacement, or they just respawn. That way you'd see people walking around with them. Maybe there should be free recruitable NPCs that spawn randomly in bars, who will join you for free if your charisma is high enough.
I do however think 1/2 charisma guys shouldn't be able to join groups. You can't make the 'social' stat rock bottom and expect to be able to join five other players.
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I do however think 1/2 charisma guys shouldn't be able to join groups. You can't make the 'social' stat rock bottom and expect to be able to join five other players.
I'd like to see you try to lead a coordinated attack on a town with 50 guys all with 1 cha with that shit
guess what, it's near impossible, it's already damn near impossible now with groups of 10
oh also yes lets fuck 1 cha forever, they will never be invited to a base, they will never have a way of getting stuff, they will never be able to enter towns
p.s. you are stupid
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In Fact, with 1 luck you can't be a good medic.
With 1 endurance you are a dead guy... or the first guy to die during a fight.
With 1 PE, you have a very bad hitchance (I think you have a +8% modifier for each PE point)
If the most of the character have 1 CHA, as Pluto say, it's to be able to have 6 Luck. That mean that a 1 CH character can have most of the fighting perk (Better critical, more critical, bonus ranged damage, thougness)... Most of the character with CH can't have them.
I agree with the medic part.
Most snipers have 1 endurance. And they do just fine with that. Since they take 10 luck and 10 pe. You are the one that will be knocked down and blinded without ever seeing the actual sniper.
You can live with 1 pe, it's just hard. Just like 1 cha is atm. They just didn't have to add any disadvantages because the current ones where big enough.
But if you stick to melee/unarmed you will do just fine.
(http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/534/screen16022010195356.jpg)
A ripper build. Quite effective.
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oh also yes lets fuck 1 cha forever, they will never be invited to a base, they will never have a way of getting stuff, they will never be able to enter towns
p.s. hurrrrrrrrrrr
Well fuck, why don't we just scrap charisma then?
If you want to take the lowest possible charisma and still be able to interact with other players in the exact same capacity, then you don't want a balanced character system. You just like there being a dump stat. For the same reason I'm sure a lot of people would want Gifted back, even though everyone knows it's stupidly overpowered.
If you want to work with other players in any meaningful capacity, you should have to take charisma. How does that not make sense?
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I dont like, when people, which are not playing PvP on fonline, wants to change something about PvP.
At this moment is PvP more balanced than ever was, at least two basic builds: BG, sniper (small gun/energy).
There are entertaining battles with 40+ players almost every day. You can join them and make your own char, if your is not enough good.
But good PvP char needs backup with at least 2 others chars: gun crafter and armorer, better with medic and bussinesman. So make one good PvP build takes far more time than general one. please, dont punish players which are spending a lot of time on this kind of play.
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In Fact, with 1 luck you can't be a good medic.
With 1 endurance you are a dead guy... or the first guy to die during a fight.
With 1 PE, you have a very bad hitchance (I think you have a +8% modifier for each PE point)
If the most of the character have 1 CHA, as Pluto say, it's to be able to have 6 Luck. That mean that a 1 CH character can have most of the fighting perk (Better critical, more critical, bonus ranged damage, thougness)... Most of the character with CH can't have them.
fyi you heal just as well with 1 luck as with 9, thats why people either take 1, 6(toughness) or 10 (FA). 1 pe is only a problem if you use guns, you can do quite well with low range weapons such as throwing or flamers.
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Like I said in the suggestion, "I know it won't be popular with some people".
Believe it or not, I have a 1 Charisma character myself. I'm quite aware of how difficult it is to play a 1 CH character and, IMO, its not really that difficult. I have one because its not really penalized to do so. Especially if you want to play solo. You can just sell your stuff to players in NCR. Also, there are a few NPCs that you can barter with at 1 CH, by the way.
But the reasons that people are giving against this idea don't make much sense, IMO. I'm seeing things like "you NEED 6 luck", etc. That's just ridiculous. There should be serverely gimped consequences for having a 1 in any statistic. While I'm a powergamer myself, rather than a "roleplayer", the game should still conform to RPG mechanics at least at its most basic form.
And a character with 1 Strength shouldn't be able to lift a weapon. A character with 1 Endurance shouldn't survive tripping and falling. A character with 1 intelligence should be a barely functioning retard. And a character with 1 charisma would be so hideous to look at and annoying in personality so as to be hated by absolutely everybody he meets.
All of this you need to put 1 in stats because "you need <insert stat here> for <insert benefit>" is nonsense. The idea that PvP is balanced because there are 2 builds (Big Gunner/Sniper) is ridiculous. There should be a wide range of effective builds, with extremes on one end and hybrids being viable as well. Its not much of a game otherwise. Tic tac toe has 2 builds. I'd expect an MMORPG to be a little more complicated.
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"And a character with 1 Strength shouldn't be able to lift a weapon. A character with 1 Endurance shouldn't survive tripping and falling. A character with 1 intelligence should be a barely functioning retard. And a character with 1 charisma would be so hideous to look at and annoying in personality so as to be hated by absolutely everybody he meets."
Have you ever seen someone so weak they couldn't lift a knife? Or so ugly you just attacked them out of sheer disgust? or so weak that falling can kill them? No, because its retarded. Hell even an 90 year old probably wont die from tripping. I saw a person with some fucked up birth defect where their head was all swollen out the neck and veiny like the hill billies in lookout point, no one says anything.
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"Have you ever seen someone so weak they couldn't lift a knife? Or so ugly you just attacked them out of sheer disgust? or so weak that falling can kill them? No, because its retarded. Hell even an 90 year old probably wont die from tripping. I saw a person with some fucked up birth defect where their head was all swollen out the neck and veiny like the hill billies in lookout point, no one says anything."
Yes, I have seen someone so weak they couldn't lift their own arm, let alone a knife. 1 and 10 values are the absolute extreme. And people get sick, and atrophy enough to be that weak in the extreme cases. Old people trip and die all the time, though usually from inability to get back up (again dealing with the weakness issue).
Having a 1 in strength or endurance means that you are as weak and frail as is humanly possible. So think of an example of the most sick and weak person you've ever seen (or seen an image of) on their deathbed, and that person is stronger than this character with 1 strength/endurance.
As for your birth defect example, again Charisma is not soley a matter of looks. That birth defect person likely was polite, friendly, or at least not going out of his/her way to be an asshole like somebody with 1 charisma would.
And yes, in our world he/she still wouldn't be shot on sight. But shooting anybody on site isn't a viable option in civilized society. People are shot on sight out of simple mistrust in the Wasteland. In our world, a mass murderer wouldn't be shot on sight, even by the police if he wasn't posing an immediate threat.
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There should be serverely gimped consequences for having a 1 in any statistic.
No there shouldn't. Instead there should be rewards for having higher than 1 statistic. According to your logic player with luck one should randomly die by lightning strikes because he's so unlucky. That's not enjoyable gaming. Instead of that, lucky player would encounter lucky events whereas unlucky character wouldn't encounter hardly any of them but he wouldn't encounter any unlucky events either. No one would.
As for charisma, person with good charisma should get lots of bonuses but a person without good charisma shouldn't get those bonuses, but not any charisma related drawbacks either. So this means that cha 10 dude would get best mercs, some bonuses to his squadmates, some npc faction related stuff etc. Low cha dude just wouldn't get those benefits but would be able to trade normally, nor would he get shot by npcs because of his ugly face.
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Do you realize the effects of this change..
I.e.: PvP balance
If you will have to spend SPECIAL points into charisma, in sniper build, you must lower the the endurance. So snipers will be more weaker then now. BG builds should do it same, but the effect will not be such visible, because their advantage is in their guns, not in the perception and luck. So snipers will die (maybe) after one enemy burst instead of two burst you need to kill sniper now. So devs will have to change something else in game (weapons power, ammo power,....). You will start avalance of changes in very hot area, PvP, which is now balanced more then it ever was.
And this only one sideefect of this change.
Maybe you dont remeber it, but in pre wipe eras, there was possible to interact with NPC with low charisma and this change was good i think. As i told you, if you have CH1 build, you need to level up another chars so you need to spend more time ingame. This is disadvantage of this build.
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No there shouldn't. Instead there should be rewards for having higher than 1 statistic.
Well, anything can be described as a reward for having a high stat or a penalty for a low one however you spin it. The rest of the stats have big penalties if you take 1.
You are rewarded with normal human speech for having high IN.
You are punished with talking like a retard for having low IN.
You are rewarded with the ability to use guns properly with high ST.
You are punished with ranged accuracy penalties for low ST.
Way I see it, low charisma should have penalties. It's the 'social' stat, so crippling it should cripple the ways you can interact with other players. You don't expect to be able to use big guns well with low strength, but people are insisting that their characters should be able to cooperate and coordinate with 40 other people with 1 charisma. As I said, these guys aren't interested in balance, just power.
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Do you realize the effects of this change..
I.e.: PvP balance
If you will have to spend SPECIAL points into charisma, in sniper build, you must lower the the endurance. So snipers will be more weaker then now. BG builds should do it same, but the effect will not be such visible, because their advantage is in their guns, not in the perception and luck. So snipers will die (maybe) after one enemy burst instead of two burst you need to kill sniper now. So devs will have to change something else in game (weapons power, ammo power,....). You will start avalance of changes in very hot area, PvP, which is now balanced more then it ever was.
There is currently no real pvp balance anyway. There are just 2 PvP options. sniper or big guns. And while things get changed in this beta you can bet there will be an avalanche of changes in PvP at some point int he future. IThe devs can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the intention is to have only these 2 endgame options when all is said and done.
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Well, anything can be described as a reward for having a high stat or a penalty for a low one however you spin it. The rest of the stats have big penalties if you take 1.
You are rewarded with normal human speech for having high IN.
You are punished with talking like a retard for having low IN.
You are rewarded with the ability to use guns properly with high ST.
You are punished with ranged accuracy penalties for low ST.
In this case the penalty could be about not getting something good instead of getting something bad. It's much more forgiving than having characters totally crippled at certain areas.
Way I see it, low charisma should have penalties. It's the 'social' stat, so crippling it should cripple the ways you can interact with other players. You don't expect to be able to use big guns well with low strength, but people are insisting that their characters should be able to cooperate and coordinate with 40 other people with 1 charisma. As I said, these guys aren't interested in balance, just power.
Having low cha cause even more drawbacks causes even more alts and alienates gang powerplayers from certain activities, because there's no way to make cha reduce anyone's combat abilities. Soldiers don't have to be that charismatic anyone can follow orders, but they do need a charismatic and intelligent leader. So what could be done is to make cha useful in gang related fights. So useful that it will solve fights and not having a high cha leader would be a big setback.
Such leader char could bring a group of mercs with him and give bonuses to his teammates. This way cha 10 dudes wouldn't be just busses who transport people around, but lead his men at the field..
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There is currently no real pvp balance anyway. There are just 2 PvP options. sniper or big guns. And while things get changed in this beta you can bet there will be an avalanche of changes in PvP at some point int he future. IThe devs can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the intention is to have only these 2 endgame options when all is said and done.
Read my BIG GUNS x SMALL GUNS suggestion thread. The PvP need more complex change than this charisma change. please, dont ruin balance if you have not enough time and ideas how to balance this area complexly.
I told you, that this game is more balanced, then it was. After wipe changes in PvP area are battles little bit longer, because there are no instakills. This measure will weak snipers build than big guns build.
But i dont know, why the charisma must affect PvP area for christ. Look at Lord of the rings, where thousands of ugly orks (NA) almost destroyed the Middle earth(fonline wasteland)? Do you want army of cafeteria's women seducers or what?!
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"Such leader char could bring a group of mercs with him and give bonuses to his teammates. This way cha 10 dudes wouldn't be just busses who transport people around, but lead his men at the field.."
Some kind of cha based perk that gives passive bonuses to party members would work.
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Read my BIG GUNS x SMALL GUNS suggestion thread.
I have.
The PvP need more complex change than this charisma change. please, dont ruin balance if you have not enough time and ideas how to balance this area complexly.
Agreed. This change is simply one simple change. Not meant to be a comprahensive overhaul of anything.
But i dont know, why the charisma must affect PvP area for christ.
What are you even talking about? This suggestion doesn't change charisma for PvP at all. It only changes it for PvE.
It would still be possible to create 1 Charisma characters and use them in PvP exactly the same. And, it will still be done. It will just make it more difficult for those characters in PvE.
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It would still be possible to create 1 Charisma characters and use them in PvP exactly the same. And, it will still be done. It will just make it more difficult for those characters in PvE.
I think that all of us play this game because of interaction with other players. If someone dont want to interact, it is better to play singleplayer.
The PvP fights is the main reason for many players to play this game. At this moment, the PvP is only existing entertaining multiplayer fight occasion in the wasteland. So if you dont want that player will leave this game, just dont make any measures, which will be threat for PvP, respectively for entertaining parts of the game.
If you want be succesfull at PvP, you must have best chars, with best equip, best organization,... . All of theese needs to spent time. Your measure will add time demands to level up your char. But there will be always players, which will spent that time in that way, so there will be always pure PvP chars, but other players, which dont have enough time, will be unable to face them.
I think that the idea of this suggestion was to add disadvantage to pure PvP chars because you think, they are so overpowered. From my point of view, the effect of this change will be oposite of that idea, because less player will try to get best possible chars, so they will be naturaly unsuccesfull in PvP against them.
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I think that the idea of this suggestion was to add disadvantage to pure PvP chars because you think, they are so overpowered.
Well, you are wrong. That is not the idea of this suggestion. The idea of the suggestion was to give similar consequences to setting stats to 1. PvP is unchanged with this change. It might make it more time consuming to level a 1 Charisma character up to 21 this way, but this is a game in which people can level to 21 in a matter of days anyway.
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Look the character builder was designed to have 10 more points than it currently does, everyone is already gimped. Stop trying to make it worse.
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Well, you are wrong. That is not the idea of this suggestion. The idea of the suggestion was to give similar consequences to setting stats to 1.
Then your idea grounds are totaly wrong. The main purpose of beta testing is to recreate this naturaly singleplayer game into multiplayer game and to make it more entertaining. But you suggest: changes for changes.
PvP is unchanged with this change. It might make it more time consuming to level a 1 Charisma character up to 21 this way, but this is a game in which people can level to 21 in a matter of days anyway.
It looks like you dont have enough PvP experience. There are days, when we cant find anywhere adequate enemy. Not because we are so strong (there will be always someone which spends more time ingame, will have best chars, best equip, best tactics, commonly, BEST ORGANIZATION), but because other players are not so good (because of demands to level up and supply best chars). Your measure will more open scissors between ocasional and periodical players.
Yes, it will, because you will die in the middle of the way to go hunting, instead in the hunting groud. But we and other major PvP gangs will bypass this measure. We will have enough info about "wandering patrols" locations, we will have enough money to buy new bases located near safe areas, we will have enough players to supply our "near-critters and safe areas" tents, we will have enough backup to get help by radio, when we will already meet that patrols,..
In oposite of "normal" player.
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You know what the big problem is with this whole Nerf people with low stats is?
It's the fact that they are already nerfed to hell. Why do you poeple want to keep nerfing people with low cha more and more?
It just doesn't make sense, they already have clear disadvantages. People with high charisma should instead of whinning actually USE that charisma to your advantage.
I have a 10 cha slaver character. He will never be able to solo pvp properly. But then again, the chances that you will meet him alone are slim. I can simply easily enslave a few npc's and let them come with as backup. And i'll never pay a penny for them. But then again, slaves/mercs are bugged in turn based, and have several bugs anyway.
IF you want to boost high charisma characters then a good step would be to fix those bugs. Because having to wait 5 turns for your mercs to loot the corpses after an encounter is just annoying.
Instead of nerfing people with low Charisma you should give people with high charisma a boost by adding new features and fixing and expanding the old ones.
For example: Give mercs/slaves the ability to watch your locker/chest. Instead of shooting people on sight they simply watch if someone tries to loot a chest.
And you could give squadmates following somoene with high cha a small combat boost.
Another possiblity: You could let npc's in random encounters choose side with people with high charisma and fight people with low charisma.
There are so many possibilities to boost people with good Charisma instead of nerf nerf nerf. Seriously instead of whinning and nerfing, think of a solution that is actually going to work in the future.