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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: dawkot on December 31, 2011, 03:15:33 am
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Im just really pissed off by groups of thieves whose tactic is like: one of them equips some rather cheap sub-machine gun and kills me with burst fire and after being killed by guards his friend quickly takes my items and later propably shares my stuff with the dead one. I think a good option to limit situations like this is incerasing pushiment for being killed (only if you're an attacker!) in set time (for example if you'll die in less then 6 seconds after suicide-attacking) even by very long respawn, destroying or damaging items from his/her tent. Im reminding that this is bug exploiting, stealing someone elses equipment witchout any problems in guarded city for just 1 sub-machine gun isn't fair >:(
Im sorry for any mistakes in this post but English isn't my national language ::)
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Your frustration is understandable, but please use the forum search function, there are already lots of topics with the similar premisse. It boils down to: a) guarded towns aren't intended to be 100% save, you still can get jumped if you are not cautious, but which doesn't mean that b) people doing nothing but trolling to do that should have it so easy.
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I think a good option to limit situations like this is incerasing pushiment for being killed (only if you're an attacker!) in set time (for example if you'll die in less then 6 seconds after suicide-attacking) even by very long respawn, destroying or damaging items from his/her tent.
There is already long respawn for suicide bombers.
Besides you can always make SuicideAlt646, SuicideAlt925, SuicideAlt139 and so on, no matter how long respawn timers are set.
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Sucuide gankers usually engages only bluesuits. Wearing simple metal armour with like 100+ HP will make any sucuide burst attempt only suicuide. My friends once used Minigun with 5mm AP for sucuide bursting but that didnt last long.
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Guards should confiscate the stuff the victim lost with force and he could afterwards ask them back from local Lost and Found. That'd put end to the "hahaa you lost xxx while I only lost x" mentality.
So basically when someone dies by another player, the guards will shoot anyone who tries to get the stuff before them.
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Sucuide gankers usually engages only bluesuits. Wearing simple metal armour with like 100+ HP will make any sucuide burst attempt only suicuide. My friends once used Minigun with 5mm AP for sucuide bursting but that didnt last long.
Sorry to disappoint you but if bluesuit gets blasted for like 268 damage (i was blown sky-high for that amount in NCR) then no armor will help you when having 100HP
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Guards should confiscate the stuff the victim lost with force and he could afterwards ask them back from local Lost and Found. That'd put end to the "hahaa you lost xxx while I only lost x" mentality.
So basically when someone dies by another player, the guards will shoot anyone who tries to get the stuff before them.
That's a good idea. Makes sense too.
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Guards should confiscate the stuff the victim lost with force and he could afterwards ask them back from local Lost and Found. That'd put end to the "hahaa you lost xxx while I only lost x" mentality.
So basically when someone dies by another player, the guards will shoot anyone who tries to get the stuff before them.
this is not hello kitty online bro. when you lose something its gone unless you pay for it back or take it back.
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this is not hello kitty online bro. when you lose something its gone unless you pay for it back or take it back.
Let's turn that other way around: suicide bursters die intentionally yet they are hardly punished. Which one you think is more important: stuff or your life? A game where losing one's life means nothing is closer to Hello Kitty online.
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avv safe you good points for someone who listens constructive criticism sa falloutdude is certainly not among those ;P
It'd be good to regain the stuff after paying "return service" fee dependant on items' worth
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I think if the loss to town reputation is so great on the first try then it would solve the problem. I'm personally not for the idea of outlawing gunfire in safe towns or being able to retrieve your gear if your killed. A good compromise in my view would be to make it so anyone guilty of such serious crime as killing unprovoked in front of the guards would no longer be under their protection.
Right now the situation is a little out of hand, as it has been for quite some time with people being able to instantly re enter a town after committing crimes there. If you want to grief in a guarded location you should should pay the penalty. After your second offense your protective bubble should vanish altogether. I'm not suggesting the guards should instakill anyone but I wouldn't mind being able to do it myself.
I always thought fallout was about survival, take what you need and suffer the consequences, an eye for an eye, but the ability to repeat the same silly actions over and over again has no real benefit to anyone other than childish thrills with no consequence to anyone but the victim.
I know we have a reputation system already. I just think its a bit too forgiving when it comes to things like this. Kinda makes the wasteland only seem harsh for some people.
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avv it just makes no sense you die and get shit back. wtf man, should i get my stuff back if some burster comes into redding when am afking and kills me and his friend takes my shit? no i should not i made mistake afking in town and taking high tier shit in town.
this also goes for ncr , everyone who reads forums and plays game knows ncr is a place when bursters are and where you will die if you bring high tier things.
also most bursters i see are killing trolls and thiefs, should they also get there shit back even thou there assholes?
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So, falloutdude, you think that these bursters/other-type suiciders bring vivid content to this game? I mean, I have to admit that I like seeing explosions, but why are you comparing Redding, an unguarded town, to NCR?
In a civilized society, if someone gets something taken from them, then the authority should try to give it back to the person that it belongs to, no?
And, I reread avv's post, and I'm pretty sure he said nothing about the suicider getting his stuff back. But I don't think that the "kill everyone who tries to loot" is necessary - it shouldn't be a guarantee that the victim gets his stuff back. I still like that "organized" aspect of it, like a mafia or something, if a person makes a plan with a looter.
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no i should not i made mistake afking in town and taking high tier shit in town.
Who said I'm there to afk? Perhaps trading or doing a quest is more likely.
this also goes for ncr , everyone who reads forums and plays game knows ncr is a place when bursters are and where you will die if you bring high tier things.
And this whole suicideburster phenomena makes the game look retarded. There's basically no justification why it should remain.
And, I reread avv's post, and I'm pretty sure he said nothing about the suicider getting his stuff back. But I don't think that the "kill everyone who tries to loot" is necessary - it shouldn't be a guarantee that the victim gets his stuff back. I still like that "organized" aspect of it, like a mafia or something, if a person makes a plan with a looter.
It has to be 100% secure or it won't work. If the victim's stuff can be looted he can be burstlooted by 2 players or 1 with proxy and there'd be a reason for normal suicidebursting again.
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And this whole suicideburster phenomena makes the game look retarded. There's basically no justification why it should remain.
I think it should stay but with more severe punishment than losing reputation that you can easly increase with traders by selling junk items to them... I understand that someone who normally doesn't visit NCR can come there and kill someone once, but the fact that in NCR there are characters that kill others on a regular basis and just live there is a bit strange.
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Sorry to disappoint you but if bluesuit gets blasted for like 268 damage (i was blown sky-high for that amount in NCR) then no armor will help you when having 100HP
JHP ammo man. Try it against any armour. Even leather armour reduces its damage significantly.
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In a civilized society, if someone gets something taken from them, then the authority should try to give it back to the person that it belongs to, no?
no not if you die. when you die your dead and thats that. that is why avv`s suggestion makes no sense. someone dies and comes back to life to gets stuff back, what! you just died!!.
fallout is harsh. i know we are trying to make this game noob friendly but really its fallout! its harsh and unforgiven. if you dont want to die you need to be smart. adapt and learning from mistakes is what fallout and fonline is.
if someone does not burst someone every once and awhile and lolz at them it makes them think. lol this game is so easy, am so great. when i was a noob i got bursted soo many times i knew i sucked and worked at becomeing better and learning how to avoid it. its part of the game and part of the fonline experience.
yes something should be in place to make bursters avoid bursting but i think if you lose your shit when bursted you should lose it. no guard gives it back. maybe high rep lose? maybe that person will be unpro in that town for 1 hour after doing it even after death. so others can lol and burst him back so he knows what its like.
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It has to be 100% secure or it won't work. If the victim's stuff can be looted he can be burstlooted by 2 players or 1 with proxy and there'd be a reason for normal suicidebursting again.
No, it would still be good if it isn't 100% secure. From what I've seen, most of the suicide bursters don't plan it, and even if most of them did, there will still be times when it isn't planned with another player. It still gives a chance that the victim could get their stuff back. Not a guarantee by god-guards, but a chance.
no not if you die. when you die your dead and thats that.
But that argument is invalid because we do respawn in FOnline. All the constant grieving is doing is making the population go down.
maybe that person will be unpro in that town for 1 hour after doing it even after death
sounds good.
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I understand author of this topic from several reasons. I was robbed in guarded cities, i tried this "roleplay" on the dark side in my dark game days too.
1) Danger in cities creates atmosphere of the game. Even in those guarded. It is Fonline, this feeling should be everywhere.
2) I agree, that guarded cities should be "more protected" than unguarded, but adding new kind of protection (preemptive or consecutive) often leads into situation, where "regular" players are punished and those bas....rds not, because they know how to violate it.
3) I can guarantee you, that suicide killers (bombers, one hex bursters,...) will always find another way how to play their roleplay. The fact that this kind of behaviour is forbiden only encourage their effort, their innovation.
4) During my personal observation, i realized that players think that guarded zones are safe zones. So they can forget about security. I.e.: players ignore situations of dead corpses of players or guards, they ignore inventory checks of mates...
5) Solutions? Leave it as it is. PK, SBombing and SK will exists, and devs effort should be used somewhere else.
Or "unguard" all cities. Allow players to create bases near every city (or even in). Let players guard cities (with militia, mercs). This really works in Requiem. Problem is, that only few cities, maybe one is guarded by players.
Or make from some locations (cities) something between guarded city and players driven city (GM driven city). NPC guards could shoot everyone who is not member, and rest will be one players. Once you get membership, you can kill, robb, thief, SB, SK whatever every other player citizen with consequences made by players. If you troll or PK, they can (leader, GM) order you punishment or even exclude you. Of course that unknown players will not have guaranteed acces, they will have to deserve it (GM could give them special quest, bring something, go somewhere, post your screen from Glow, ...). This could work.
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No, it would still be good if it isn't 100% secure. From what I've seen, most of the suicide bursters don't plan it, and even if most of them did, there will still be times when it isn't planned with another player.
Who do you think reaches the gear fast: a guard or a guy who knows exactly when it happens? There's no way to make a suitable punishment for bursting because alts can always be used.
1) Danger in cities creates atmosphere of the game. Even in those guarded. It is Fonline, this feeling should be everywhere.
I'd like to point one thing out: what danger is there for a bluesuit who carries nothing? Or for the suicide burster himself? Basically there's no danger for those who carry nothing so why should those who actually want to do something useful in towns suffer?
The danger must be equal for all or shouldn't exist at all.
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I'd like to point one thing out: what danger is there for a bluesuit who carries nothing? Or for the suicide burster himself?
This is a great point. People keep talking about this danger that must be everywhere, but the point is people who do shit in guarded towns aren't in ANY danger. Somehow this never comes to the mind of people with "wasteland should be harsh" mentality.
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This is a great point. People keep talking about this danger that must be everywhere, but the point is people who do shit in guarded towns aren't in ANY danger. Somehow this never comes to the mind of people with "wasteland should be harsh" mentality.
They are not in danger, but they helps to create danger for others => atmospehere of game. For me, whole F1 and F2 was about excelent atmosphere. Eliminate them and eliminate even atmosphere.
There are ways how to survive those PKs in guarded towns. Best is prevention. I suggest that NPC should "speak" about PKs, suicide bombers etc.
I.e.:when lvl 1-5 meet npc guard or trader, he should spesk smt. like this: "Hello stranger. We cannot protect your safety all the time. Dont go closer to any other stranger, or dont let them go close to you!"
This could realy help. And if player dont read this warnings, its his fault.
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Who do you think reaches the gear fast: a guard or a guy who knows exactly when it happens? There's no way to make a suitable punishment for bursting because alts can always be used.
You're missing my point. What I said will not prevent all suicides. BUT it will decrease it. Yes, there will be some mad suiciders that will do anything like make proxy/100 bursting alts to be able to do suicide runs. But the majority are not going to bother with that. That goes for what falloutdude said about the person not being allowed back in town for an hour too. I agree with what you said in your first post, but I just don't think it should be a 100% guarantee. Guards should run, also. Not sure exactly when they stopped running but they always used to.
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They are not in danger, but they helps to create danger for others => atmospehere of game. For me, whole F1 and F2 was about excelent atmosphere. Eliminate them and eliminate even atmosphere.
There are ways how to survive those PKs in guarded towns. Best is prevention. I suggest that NPC should "speak" about PKs, suicide bombers etc.
I.e.:when lvl 1-5 meet npc guard or trader, he should spesk smt. like this: "Hello stranger. We cannot protect your safety all the time. Dont go closer to any other stranger, or dont let them go close to you!"
This could realy help. And if player dont read this warnings, its his fault.
It's a stupid atmosphere. Why should towns be more dangerous than the wasteland? How does that make even a bit of sense?
"Shit I'm going into town, I better make sure not to have anything valuable on me." "Phew, now I shall go off into the wasteland with all my valuable gear, because it's nice and safe out here"
WTH? Really people? I understand wasteland is harsh yada yada yada, but guarded towns should actually... ya know... be guarded.
In the wasteland if you are in an encounter with NCR Army and you try to loot the other corpses... they shoot you. Why shouldn't the same apply to towns? The only change would be when the dead person comes back he could pay a small fee and be given his stuff back.
Wasteland is harsh... but guarded cities are supposed to be less harsh. Otherwise what's the point of guarded cities?
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They are not in danger, but they helps to create danger for others => atmospehere of game. For me, whole F1 and F2 was about excelent atmosphere. Eliminate them and eliminate even atmosphere.
But fallout 1 and 2 didn't have any suicide bursters in towns.
There are ways how to survive those PKs in guarded towns. Best is prevention. I suggest that NPC should "speak" about PKs, suicide bombers etc.
Or even better: let's have npc suicide bursters who randomly kill people and you can't shoot them before they have fired first! That'd totally up the athmosphere.
You're missing my point. What I said will not prevent all suicides. BUT it will decrease it. Yes, there will be some mad suiciders that will do anything like make proxy/100 bursting alts to be able to do suicide runs. But the majority are not going to bother with that. That goes for what falloutdude said about the person not being allowed back in town for an hour too. I agree with what you said in your first post, but I just don't think it should be a 100% guarantee. Guards should run, also. Not sure exactly when they stopped running but they always used to.
Currently suicide bursting is hardly a big matter because stuff is so abundant. However when it's not, people really start thinking ways to get stuff in abusive ways. That's when you start seeing the dedicated and organized burstlooting and that's when it hurts the victims most.
I simply don't see a reason to develop a feature that doesn't work.
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However when it's not, people really start thinking ways to get stuff in abusive ways.
This reminded me a gang of Russians who used to suddenly jump from world map into NCR, surrounded you in like 3 seconds, suicide bursted and looted while one of them was making "smoke screen" over your body by spamming a block of Russian letters that looked like "XIXIXIXIXIXIXI". Of course with all the NPC guards around, who couldn't do anything (it's just AI after all) although it was obvious they cooperate.
Sorry, but it's a slapstick comedy not wasteland.
You can't fix everything but the punishment for suicide kills in guarded towns is ridiculously small.
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But fallout 1 and 2 didn't have any suicide bursters in towns.
And almost everyone spoke american English :<.
But even so, who on Earth would be THAT retarded to suicide just to kill some guy he may not even know?!
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i would really want to know why there are bombs ingame.
Only use i see is bombing people in NCR. :-\
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i would really want to know why there are bombs ingame.
Only use i see is bombing people in NCR.
I couldn't imagine any better weapon to kill mercenaries or players camping in narrow passage, assuming you're alone. Killing people in NCR is much worse way to waste time. :)
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i would really want to know why there are bombs ingame.
Only use i see is bombing people in NCR. :-\
In cbt you can throw dynamite in hexes, that might open up some alternative options... like throwing dynamite in ncr :(
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Sorry to disappoint you but if bluesuit gets blasted for like 268 damage (i was blown sky-high for that amount in NCR) then no armor will help you when having 100HP
Um. Armor have a thing called Damage Resistance which blue suit does not. MAmk2 has 30% reduction minus 4DT = actual dmg.
Also I like the your suggestion Avv. Would be a lot player-friendly solution - Maybe some people dont want any people in this game, but for those who would like, its a first step to enable "safe foothold"
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Um. Armor have a thing called Damage Resistance which blue suit does not. MAmk2 has 30% reduction minus 4DT = actual dmg.
With 2x Toughness :D 4/10
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Bluesuits crying about suicide killers ?
Dress some armor and get some normal lvl + use hands and brain. Then NOBODY will kill you.
If somebody using dynamite or something like that - that is not a problem if you will die once.
For example it is possible to play some browser game there you will lose nothing. ;)
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Bluesuits crying about suicide killers ?
Dress some armor and get some normal lvl + use hands and brain. Then NOBODY will kill you.
Yup. High HP+armor and don't let anyone touch you :) Sometimes harmless failer thiefs, but sometimes very deadly bombs will found from inventory and it's too late to run worldmap :D
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Bluesuits crying about suicide killers ?
Dress some armor and get some normal lvl + use hands and brain. Then NOBODY will kill you.
If somebody using dynamite or something like that - that is not a problem if you will die once.
For example it is possible to play some browser game there you will lose nothing. ;)
Bluesuit killing another bluesuit with 10mm smg isn't the problem, even though it's stupid feature and makes noobs sad. But we don't care about noobs because wasteland is harsh right?
The actual problem is burstlooting where a team of 2 or 1 guy with proxy shoots someone with actual property and the proxy or his pal loots both instantly. That's retarded because the victim can't kill them like he could in unsafe towns. That's why at certain point new reno arms is safer place to buy stuff than San Fran tanker, at least you can defend yourself. These guys use minigun with 2xbrd doubleburst.
You don't have to hand out your protips to avoid those burstlooters. The thread is about a feature to get rid of that kind of gameplay. If you think the townbursting feature should stay, let's hear your arguments why.
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Bluesuit killing another bluesuit with 10mm smg isn't the problem, even though it's stupid feature and makes noobs sad. But we don't care about noobs because wasteland is harsh right?
Yes, right.
Two problems:
1) Noobs can live in guarding cities all the session and get top-stuff too easy. Billions money, ridges of brotherhood armors etc etc... And all this possible to get without any fun and dangerous (instead this suicide killers)...
Thats more then evident
2) This SMG too strong ang accessible... I agreed with you.
The main idea of my post: Stuff must have treasure. Not like now... This "noobs" leave serwer when they easy craft/buy few CA and gauss-pistols and get nothing to do.
ps. I started play alone with something like 5 6 5 6 5 5 character and have clear performance about post I write ;)
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The main idea of my post: Stuff must have treasure. Not like now...
But that gives even more reasons to do burstlooting.
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But that gives even more reasons to do burstlooting.
Yes !
Burstlooting is stupid shit...need to fix that.
But top-stuff in guarded cities too bad...
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Problem of burtslooting is more its threat than actual looting. If you take care and propper build your barter alt will never be robbed or burstlooted but nescessiti to stay on your toes and keep always moving is ridiculous in guarded town. In real wasteland you would just burst such a creep in da face and explain yourself to autority later.
Iven in the middle of TC battle full of 56hex snipers, gauss pistolls and mutant artillery i dont feel as threatened as in san fran trader with one bluesuit standing near.
Maybe better approach would be to allow bursting in da face in guarded towns for some fee (calculated out of victims inventory and its level not to make it profitable bussiness but to allow players to execute their own justice.) to guards.
example: someone in bs is still touching you, you burst him guard immediately aproaches youn and reqires payment, it was lvl 21 thief with empty equip so pay would be like 500 (21*some coeficient) caps.
example 2: you will approach bs who is trading and burst him. Guard approaches you and demands payment. BS had 2 BAs and avanger in inventory from lvl 12 alt. payment would be like 2*18000+14000+12*coeficient which is something like 50k caps you dont have that money with you and you get shot by guards trying run away and your companion got shot too trying to loot your body and guards loots everything which will be ready for your victim for some small fee.
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Game mechanic = game mechanic. Change it fin pink "guarding cities" is a dead way...
More easy make some mmorpg like WOW and delete FOnline.
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Um. Armor have a thing called Damage Resistance which blue suit does not. MAmk2 has 30% reduction minus 4DT = actual dmg.
In what kind of sun-scorched, redneck shit hole did you learn math?
I was talking about 268 explosion damage that no armor was alble to protect you from dying when at 100 or less HP
CAmk2 is 45% explode reristant and like 8-9 DT... you'd still get hit for 143 damage!
NCR! Bluesuit friendly environment!
Bluesuits crying about suicide killers ?
Dress some armor and get some normal lvl + use hands and brain. Then NOBODY will kill you.
If somebody using dynamite or something like that - that is not a problem if you will die once.
For example it is possible to play some browser game there you will lose nothing. ;)
(...)
1) Noobs can live in guarding cities all the session and get top-stuff too easy. Billions money, ridges of brotherhood armors etc etc... And all this possible to get without any fun and dangerous (instead this suicide killers)...
Thats more then evident
(...)
Two words:
Mental...
Retardation...
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i dont think dynamite is such an issue, its pretty expensive so at least the killer loses a reasonable amount unlike a greasegun burst. To be honest there is almost nothign that can be done about sg bursting becuase of the no relog cd atm