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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => General Game Discussion => Topic started by: Surf on December 20, 2011, 02:59:09 am
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Basically, the thread title says all. I was quite surprised, even shocked when I came to edit the said graphics for the Automap function on my own game (eg - here:) - the famous "MAP" button!
(http://h10.abload.de/img/asdfasdgfa4xoqi.png)
(it's using exactly the same files as this here:)
(http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081206231731/fallout/images/c/c2/Fallout_PIP-Boy_2000.jpg)
and basically everyone said they'd never use the map feauture. Now, let's use this thread for the WHY - why is this feauture underdeveloped, what is lacking, what is missing, what can be improved upon? I guess this is something every total conversion can learn from, hence I created a single topic for it. Even all to you non-modders - post your opinions here, what was bad about the map function, suggestions and so on. Experienced, as even new players are welcome to contribute - to make this button useful! Each and every interface mod I checked didn't even have this button in. Why? Tell me why no one uses it, tell me what is missing there, what is bad to handle, what can be improved upon. Thanks!
I guess the fact it is using some very abstract perspective to display buildings and such comes in handy. THe fact that you don't gain any advantage using the map feauture?
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The fact that you don't gain any advantage using the map feauture ?
Mhm , it's just very easy to oversee the environment without using the map and in much more detail.
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Mhm , it's just very easy to oversee the environment without using the map and in much more detail.
Exactly, shouldn't this feauture be some advancment from the usual LoS? No matter if it is a singleplayer or multiplayergame, a feauture should never be useless. Where could be some improvments made? Maybe, this feauture for 2238 could be that it provides a slight higher "LoS" than the normal view? Maybe it could be easier to detect people, etc?
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I've never really used it (I know all the maps by this point) but maybe it could show friends/enemies as red and blue dots or something? Like players that you've tagged either friend or enemy? That is if it doesn't already do that and if it isn't a total pain to implement.
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Maybe add some marks. Like barmen/barber/doctor/teacher. But only if newbie ask npc about this. Or if you been there before. I know some people now all this places good, but we all been newbies :)
Look at ya map newbie!
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Maybe add some marks. Like barmen/barber/doctor/teacher. But only if newbie ask npc about this. Or if you been there before. I know some people now all this places good, but we all been newbies :)
Look at ya map newbie!
This would be good. Or even just dots for every npc that has conversaton options.
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Updated my jour. Updated my jour. Updated my jour!
The automap feature isn't used, because you have infinite FoV for map purposes already anyways. In FOnline-games, the automap should have some kind of a motion scanner installed as default, which would give you some kind of a look from behind the walls and what's happening there.
Personally, I could see lots of new uses for automap+motion scanner feature as a combat class even, if there would be some kind of a perk (for high-PE scouts with lots of outdoorsman-knowledge only) which would increase the effectiveness of your motion scanner greatly. Then we would have atleast one scout in the team, looking at his map when he's not fighting.
Maybe add some marks. Like barmen/barber/doctor/teacher. But only if newbie ask npc about this. Or if you been there before. I know some people now all this places good, but we all been newbies :)
Look at ya map newbie!
This sounds good, being able to "mark" positions in your map, just like in here. New players (who somehow are rather unexperienced with FO1/2) would be able to mark shop vendors, doctors and other kinds of places worth noting.
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I used to use the map and still do sometimes in some places with lots of buildings on a large map, I get confused sometimes if I havn't been there for a while. The map makes it quite easy to navigate around and see where your current posistion is. I also like how it gives the top down perspective of the map and the simple lines and dots look nice to me for some reason.
Some new features to the map to make it more useful would be nice.
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Maybe add some marks. Like barmen/barber/doctor/teacher. But only if newbie ask npc about this. Or if you been there before. I know some people now all this places good, but we all been newbies :)
Look at ya map newbie!
This would be the best way to put it in use, but not necessary. Otherwise the gameplay is so centered around the general overview that map is hardly needed.
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I wonder how this new UI would work with a sensor module lol.
This map would be useful if it had the names of the areas or buildings, like BANK, shop, peculiar npcs, etc.
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no scanning thru walls shit omfg its gone be totally abused in pvp... it would make sneakers totally useless
the smart way to improve that "feature" (that wasnt even used in f1 f2 btw) is to add taggs on map like someone wrote above (barber/doctor etc.) its gona be usefull for newcomers. 2nd option is to use map feature for quests - 4 example dude X gives u a quest and mark on ur map position where guy Y is (who u need to kill/ talk to /steal from etc.) or also a position of some hidden entrance/ ladder/ cave entrace ...
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I see no point of map being there, unless it allows playing in ASCII represented space like nethack :d.
No really, I don't think it was ever useful until it's well readable and new maps complex enough. Otherwise it's just map of a map (since game is isometric projection).
IDK if you're looking for useful maps in isometric games, I think the infinity engine games had it as decent feature, because map was very well readable and maps actually huge.
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Well, you could always make a minimap out of it, where it also shows characters (as others already mentioned) and there was a key to press where you could make it appear and disappear for pvp/map navigation necessities.
I've been wanting a minimap for some time now already but I debated whether it would be good for fonline in general...
Other than that, I really can't think of anything.
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Tell me why no one uses it
(http://i43.tinypic.com/f9eh44.png)
Also, opening the map screen makes the main screen inactive, which means you can't really use it in combat or ANYWHERE, even if you want to.
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I also believe that additional information will display the Automap interresting but also require more work. Have all the information at the beginning may not be appropriate. Talk to a beggar at the entrance of the city should be able to unlock a majority of the points of information in city we are. Start a quest where you must go to this specific location in a city should also be displayed if accepted. Our own ability to mark points on the map, ability to filter the information (important place; quest; custom mark; ...). And .. why not interaction with these mark. You click on a quest mark to go at your quest journal to see where you are in the quest and what you have to do, when you click on a barber it just show you a short description, when you click on a custom mark you see what you write when you do the mark.
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(http://i43.tinypic.com/f9eh44.png)
Exactly as mentioned above - simple and plain to start with, then once you've been in a building, label it with who/what is there.
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There is a lot of nice ideas in this topic, so I've made a try to unite all of them into the one, and added some of my thoughts.
No wonder, why this function is underestimated and not used. But still, there's a lot of ways to make it useful, after the following fixes, it could become a great tool for the squad commanders:
1. Pre-defined building names + ablility to add own marks on the map.
2. Wider FOV zone + ability to expand it further with support perks and various devices, such as motion detector.
3. Showing the:
- Members of the faction as a small green dots
- Non-members as red dots
- NPC's as let's say blue dots.
- Vehicles visible as a big grey rectangles.
Plus to this, it may be a decent idea to add the following device, which could be easily crafted and used if you want to track a non-member of your faction.
(http://fo2238.fodev.net/wiki/images/a/a3/Bug.gif)
4. Some kind of waypoints, that could be set from the map and will be visible to the squad members.
5. Character should be able to have the map screen opened and being able to walk (probably running function should be disabled it that case).
In my opinion, it could look like this:
(http://hostingkartinok.com/image/01201112/a0fac2a2128a67c589d0dbaa8b7b64b7.png)
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What if they had a channel much like the radios then the people visible to you would appear as dots on the maps of those on the same channel and vice versa.
They could even have two toggles, 'send' would display all players you see on the maps of others whilst 'receive' is fairly self explanatory. Anybody with theirs set to send could automatically appear on the scanners of those on different channels as a trade off.
Do you send your tanks in set to send whilst your snipers recieve the info or do you sneak someone in and then get them to send you the positions quickly before they are discovered.
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There is a lot of nice ideas in this topic, so I've made a try to unite all of them into the one, and added some of my thoughts.
No wonder, why this function is underestimated and not used. But still, there's a lot of ways to make it useful, after the following fixes, it could become a great tool for the squad commanders:
1. Pre-defined building names + ablility to add own marks on the map.
2. Wider FOV zone + ability to expand it further with support perks and various devices, such as motion detector.
3. Showing the:
- Members of the faction as a small green dots
- Non-members as red dots
- NPC's as let's say blue dots.
- Vehicles visible as a big grey rectangles.
Plus to this, it may be a decent idea to add the following device, which could be easily crafted and used if you want to track a non-member of your faction.
(http://fo2238.fodev.net/wiki/images/a/a3/Bug.gif)
4. Some kind of waypoints, that could be set from the map and will be visible to the squad members.
5. Character should be able to have the map screen opened and being able to walk (probably running function should be disabled it that case).
In my opinion, it could look like this:
(http://hostingkartinok.com/image/01201112/a0fac2a2128a67c589d0dbaa8b7b64b7.png)
How would the machine know the information?
I can understand adding your own markers and having the map update as you explore, but beyond that, the information would constitute magic knowledge.
So... yes, and no.
Lots of thought in your post, and I appreciate that.
edit: Some of this would require motion detector.
Perhaps a tactical add-on that would show your friends- if they link in to a common frequency.
Mapping enemies would require perhaps an additional add-on for shared situational awareness.
Then maybe an EW aspect in which your radio radiation from networking can be triangulated.
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How would the machine know the information?
I understand your confusion, but from what I know - anything could be scripted and programmed. The only requirement is the wish and skills. Moreover, it looks like most of the suggested features doesn't require much extra coding, it's mostly about editing the existing scripts and stuff.
The only thing, that needs to be done from scratch is the fourth point. Let me elaborate it a bit - what I want, is a kind of lines which is set by the squad leader from the map (lets count the faction leader = squad leader, just to simplify it) and showing, where the members of the squad have to move (but it's a multiplayer game, not an RTS, so this only works as a kind of reminder) or shoot. This would get rid of the TeamSpeak's (Mumble, Ventrillo, Skype, choose which ever do you like more) speeches, such as "ENTER SOUTH and move to the mine, not MAIN, you, a**holes!!!" and will add more of tactics to the game.
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What I meant was in-game, how would the machine have the information?
We have a map and/or motion detector/ground radar sensor, and it has an unexplained IFF capability.
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What I meant was in-game, how would the machine have the information?
We have a map and/or motion detector/ground radar sensor, and it has an unexplained IFF capability.
Who cares?
How do I know someone's name just by looking at them?
Is it useful? Does it increase the enjoyability of the game, especially for the ones already playing it? These are the questions to ask. Not "Well I don't know, that doesn't seem realistic."
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Who cares?
How do I know someone's name just by looking at them?
Is it useful? Does it increase the enjoyability of the game, especially for the ones already playing it? These are the questions to ask. Not "Well I don't know, that doesn't seem realistic."
Scouts could add the extra info if they were in the network when they made various discoveries.
Another sub-game.