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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Trokanis on December 13, 2011, 08:53:17 am
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One of the key issues most new players and some seasoned players have with this game is dying at low levels, losing possibly hours of work. Now yes the wasteland is harsh, and open pvp and full loot drop aren't going anywhere. So how do we make things less difficult for players without losing anything people cherish? My suggestion is NPC armor drop. Now read carefully before anyone panics please. First of all what npcs wear which armor would have to be addressed, and whether or not certain npcs should drop any at all.
So after the npcs are worked out on who drops and who doesn't a few things should be considered.
Armor taken off of npcs should be deteriorated just like the weapons if not more so considering you're likely filling them full of lead, hot gases, plasma, lasers, or your own fist. This can be done in a way to maintain npc AC until they're dead (meaning the act of killing them is what reduces it)
Npc Guards in towns should be excluded from the armor drop system, the same as they are from weapons. It was made that way for a reason, no point changing it now. Yes Rangers and Hub guards might become a huge target, but they already are. It could be said to make them more difficult since they come from actual trained and powerful places.
A way to help regulate it slightly is to add a % chance to the drop, so not every armored npc that can drop armor does drop armor. A flat table for % would suffice, and could even be changed to make the better armor less likely to drop.
For Power Armor, it could be argued they can be excluded from drop, for various Canon and non-canon reason, for example the act of killing the person inside renders the armor beyond current Wasteland science's ability to repair.
If players have another means of getting armor like they do weapons, it's just one more chance they have of getting back into the fight. The armor won't be the best and it won't be perfect but it's way better than skin. Just like with guns, people will still craft and mine, it just gives low level players a leg up out there. If they can kill some Marauders outside NCR, and get some Leather Jackets they won't be nearly as pissed when someone blows them away just after getting Busters quest reward. Of course there are some drawbacks like the market will probably get flooded with low level weak armor, but it's no different than radios. To help maintain the market, the times broken relation to value should help since armor off an npc isn't going to be brand new.
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IMHO thats not the problem here with low levels. Actual problem with low levels is taht there are very few quests which are impossible to find without wiki which can bring you to level where you can actualy shoot some NPCs in encounter and survive.
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Npcs already drop their armors in cbt server.
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Main issue as i see it: no newbie protection period.
5-Day Newbie Protection would be optional and only protect you until you do one of the following:
1) forfeit it by targeting another player
2) build your first tent
3) play 5 days
During that time, no other player could target you for weapons hits or stealing. Once expired, you get 5 more days of protection during which time thieves can steal from you but at a high risk the guards will shoot them, and players can hit you but damage is 1/10th normal which ruins their reputation there. Expires when either:
1) you hit another player with weapon or Steal
2) end of Day 10
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I don't think that NPC droppin armors will make it easier for the low lever character to survive. The character still has to survive the combat and that's the tough part. Low levels are very weak and not only against other players.
I think the best would be to make up a new Hit Points formula to make the gap between your total HPs at lvl 1 and at lvl 21/24 not that big. However such a formula sounds a bit too hard to develop...
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Let me outline this, I'm not talking about survival, players are gonna die. More quests isn't going to make any new player feel better about being blown away right after getting done with how many ever quests they did to lose the only items they had. With lootable armors already on the CBT, hopefully it's getting fair reviews.
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5-Day Newbie Protection would be optional and only protect you until you do one of the following:
clean shot for the proxy scout looter alts bro. xD
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You're gonna die either way, but with armors being more available, players are at least going to change their looks quite often. That can be considered as huge thing.
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Such talking about small thing on wastes.. dying :/
It happens, if you are weak and cannot protect yourself or you are stupid and trust wrong person..
But anyway I would like that system will stay as it is now (No need add anything like newbie day protection etc helpers..)
You will learn lesson, if you die many times.. then you want make yourself powerful and gather friends for hunts and win enemies.
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Light armors are very easy to obtain already, you just need to craft a few BB's and trade them for a jacket or leather armor. Much safer than getting it from NPCs. I believe players will still kill NPCs for their weapons and ammunition and not care much about their armors.
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The newbie protection has been denied, this post is not about that. And yes people die in the wastes, but for new low level players it is in fact a big thing. In many cases a huge thing that causes a lot of trouble. Yes you can craft BB's and head to towns to get armors, but you still come across the same problem, shop shooters, pick pockets, bombers, grid campers, and over all grief. If you can actually fend for yourself a little more, it might just be the edge to make it less of a draw back to lose everything on you every time some lucky pk finds you. As stated in an above post they are already testing armor drop in the CBT, and I think this is a step forward. Having lootable armor won't cost players any kills, any lulz, or chances at grief, it will just give normal/new players a better chance to brave the wastes.
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I personally like the armor-drop idea.
I can blow this guy to pieces with a rocket or shred him to pieces with an Avenger and his weapon and ammo will still be intact but his armor is somehow not spared?
And trokanis's reasoning is a plus as well.
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My idea would be a quest for hides as a reward in VC, NCR and Hub
For example as a newbie you'd have to do ten different things (random each time) every one a bit harder than the previous one (bring some "junk" easy to come by, usng some skill somwhere or on someone etc) for each mini quest done you'd get some info about how the wastes are dangerous place coz of player( killer)s and with option to take whenever one want earned hides this way with a STRONG recomendation to get them when there's at least 10 of them
I'm against newbie ivulnerability period it works for most games BUT it'd spoil a post-apocalyptic spirit...
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Armors don't mean shit. All mobs should drop caps. That also includes creatures like radscorpions, molerats, etc. so that every newb can earn any money from hunting. At the moment the only way to get caps is to be lucky while trading and finding NPC with caps. I'd also like to quote avv (not exact quote) who said: "newbies learn best when they are raped and killed and have their stuff taken away". This way they don't get falsed view of the wastes. This is an example taken from real life - when parents are too caring for their children, it won't do any good.
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Yeah, just make everyone think the game is retarded and quit it, because hardcores will feel they are getting rewarded for their "hard work".
Truth is that newbies don't die due to their stupidity, and not even always due to lack of knowledge (they will not die often because of looting items in X vs Y, they see it once and learn), but because of random crits from random critters in random encounters possibly with random PK.
Add more things to learn or decrease random deaths.
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Yeah, just make everyone think the game is retarded and quit it, because hardcores will feel they are getting rewarded for their "hard work".
Truth is that newbies don't die due to their stupidity, and not even always due to lack of knowledge (they will not die often because of looting items in X vs Y, they see it once and learn), but because of random crits from random critters in random encounters possibly with random PK.
Add more things to learn or decrease random deaths.
Sorry for large quote... But I completely agree with mister Bravo here, game is unfriendly enough, why make it so even unfriendlier? And I know plenty of other people believe Random situations to be another denomination for fun (some even say Random IS god) but truth is, theres randomness for the sake of unique experiences and then theres forced randomness that entails frustation, and I believe we get more of the latter.
Elaborating a little bit, there IS nothing even scarcely unique at being thunderstruck by a high level while being a low level in a low level area, seasoned players will try to dismiss it as luck of the draw (and that wont mean they didnt get a little angry/frustrated) whereas newer players will be sometimes awestruck by the game open nature, and most other times frustrated at the rotten end of the game open structure.
Ive said this plenty of times and ill go and say it again, there should be designated LOW LEVEL areas to avoid high rollers from roflstomping newbs (will AT LEAST lessen the occurrences and very well avoid the im fucked scenarios for seasoned players too) Lets hear it bringing randomness to a fair measure, so we can appreciate its unique taste and not its repetitive streak
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I agree the game as it is, is less friendly for low level players. This thread is about armor drops from Npcs, lets keep it that way. I already had a 8 page thread go on with suggestions for area's or ways for lower level players to be safer. It was denied and trolled.
Npc's already drop caps, and having them drop more won't be a big help either. Because you still have to make it somewhere to use those caps. Now the Armor drops won't be a huge help, but not having to trek through towns to buy it will help. And it makes it less frustrating if that type of gear is more readily available to lower level players. Who no matter skill, will die, unless they're being carried by some major gang, and that's not really playing.
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I don't think random situations are any big problem (perhaps that's what Fallout is about), but their resolution is often random or impossible, and that IS bad.
I don't say new players shouldn't die, but if they die and are clever enough, they should know how they could have done to survive.
Also it's kinda hard to balance out NPCs for multiplayer game where you are supposed to trust absolutely no one.
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I don't think random situations are any big problem (perhaps that's what Fallout is about), but their resolution is often random or impossible, and that IS bad.
I don't say new players shouldn't die, but if they die and are clever enough, they should know how they could have done to survive.
Also it's kinda hard to balance out NPCs for multiplayer game where you are supposed to trust absolutely no one.
?????
So back on topic.
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There is no point to talk about armor drops since it's already implemented in beta.
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(...)All mobs should drop caps. That also includes creatures like radscorpions, molerats, etc. so that every newb can earn any money from hunting. At the moment the only way to get caps is to be lucky while trading and finding NPC with caps. (...)
I agree with that there shold be thing in encounters that newbs could get a profit from it...
Of course i'm NOT talking about rats dropping cash... instead i suggest (almost) all (non humanoid) critters to drop somethig (like body parts or something that could be sold in random encounters too (welcome my good primitive shaman wannabe! Why wont you buy these 23 rat tails, 8 molerat sinews and 4 mantis intestines/raptorial legs you can make them into some concoction of yours and i do have need for those rusty metalic discs and you don't). Those body parts could be maybe used for some small crafting or swapping it for xp (like spears in Junk Town) or other newbie-oriented benefit.
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It sucks to be a noob, we have all been there. When the wipe is comes we will have to go through it again.
I don't see the need to protect noobs. The only way I can think of to make it easier for noobs is to give them 10 brahmin hides right off the bat.