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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => General Game Discussion => Topic started by: Savager on November 09, 2011, 05:06:55 pm
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So, about mercenaries, they are like the bots from CS but in ultra hard mode. And no by having good tactics, im talking about his reaction time.
I have face a lot of times mercs traps but yesterday i realize that something is not ok, and is they reaction time of 0.00001 sec.
Me and two partners where looking for a merc leader that have plasma mercs and we fight whit them 3 times.
The first time, we enter encounter and when loading screen was finish, 1 of my partners was shoot by 3 plasma rifles, I not even see the mercs (i have max PE). The merc leader as soon as we enter he exit and already his mercs shoot us and we could not return fire because they reaction time, combined by the merc leader exiting whit car.
I heal my partnet and the merc leader enter again, first we see the plasma bolts in the air, after we respond whit rockets, the mercs instantly dissapear (merc leader go in car again)
We go around like 15 min and found him again, when loading screen finish my 2 partners where already melted, and i was in 30 hp. Quickly i use 2 SS but another round of beams melt me.
So, there was nothing that simple humans being can do against the mercs.
So what about this mechanism? Its not fair that when the mercs get hitted can "instant" dissapear getting into a car whit leader. This is a mayor exploit, we did not have time for respond.
And about making the traps, WTF they have 0.00001 response time, we where killed in the loading screen BY GOD SAKE. Thats unfair, and if u askme, a very bad mechanism.
So, what do you think community?
My personal opinion is that mercs should be changed in they response time. Its very stupid that they can kill u in loading screen, no player can do that. They should have the same response that players, 1-1,5 secs of delay. And also, when they got hit why they can escape in car or when merc leader exit? Its very unfair. Should take battle time like the players do.
So what do u think about this subject? Its fair or unfair the response time of mercs?
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Unfortunatley it's easier to have 4 chars that can have x ammount of mercs compared to 4 actual chars themselves and it ruins pvp.
It's a intended feature by devs to die at loading screen before you can defend yourself. I think it gives the game a more 'harsh' feeling.
edit: possible fix, maybe to give connecting client(s) invunerability until properly joined in the encounter.
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yeah Merc's are pretty op
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yeah Merc's are pretty op
Yeah, but mutants were funny, always bonking themselves or scratching their asses while waiting for the next person to fall in to your merc trap.
Mutants should be back after they fix the reaction time thing.
-Ulrek-
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Yeah, but mutants were funny, always bonking themselves or scratching their asses while waiting for the next person to fall in to your merc trap.
Mutants should be back after they fix the reaction time thing.
-Ulrek-
Lets hope that :D
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I guess people were supposed to use them. But apparently it was generally not liked so many turned they charisma to 1 and focused on their very own character. Some people can't just understand that and spit insults at this group. But honestly people either have charisma on their characters because they feel they need it (eg. not knowing the game and starting is using only their knowledge from Fallout), or because they want companions, or because they feel it's only right to have it (RP).
That makes me wonder how this will develop, because the groups are not likely to change, but it's possible players will shift between them.
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I always take 3 CH on any character i can, just because i don't always have a friend to help me add all my alts to my base..
Other then that, 1 black dude merc can ruin someones day if you do it right, or a ghoul with a shotgun.
-Ulrek-
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Mercs reaction time is no different from any other npc's, you cannot do anything about this without making every npc with slow reaction time, (how you call "human") and it's not even plausible fix, because such a factor varies from person to person greatly.
They can leave encounters quickly, being in combat timer, without merc leader in combat, because how would they operate if this were the case? Im walking cross worldmap, get forced into encounter, raiders, run out of encounter, and zomg.... my 2 assault rifle mercs aren't with me anymore because they weren't smart enough to run away like me.
Besides that, you obviously never used one of these builds before, so i'll fill you in, on the strifes such a build causes, compared to all other builds.
1. Mercs cost a fucking shitload. Especially since prices are global, and every buy makes the price go up.
2. Mercs are inefficient really... They don't have any perks, they use equipment and ammo like crazy, the best BG merc uses a leather jacket.... and best laser or melee is metal armor.... Hardly tough.
3. You pretty much gimp your actual "Character" when you choose 9 charisma... Try fighting 1vs1 against any other char that is combat 1 charisma. Good luck.
4. As mentioned earlier... transportation. Every merc leader either must have a highwayman or a hummer, else they'll have to take several trips wherever they go.
I think/hope you get the idea.
p.s. you're not the first to make this kind of topic.
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They can leave encounters quickly, being in combat timer, without merc leader in combat, because how would they operate if this were the case? Im walking cross worldmap, get forced into encounter, raiders, run out of encounter, and zomg.... my 2 assault rifle mercs aren't with me anymore because they weren't smart enough to run away like me.
Besides that, you obviously never used one of these builds before, so i'll fill you in, on the strifes such a build causes, compared to all other builds.
1. Mercs cost a fucking shitload. Especially since prices are global, and every buy makes the price go up.
2. Mercs are inefficient really... They don't have any perks, they use equipment and ammo like crazy, the best BG merc uses a leather jacket.... and best laser or melee is metal armor.... Hardly tough.
3. You pretty much gimp your actual "Character" when you choose 9 charisma... Try fighting 1vs1 against any other char that is combat 1 charisma. Good luck.
4. As mentioned earlier... transportation. Every merc leader either must have a highwayman or a hummer, else they'll have to take several trips wherever they go.
I think/hope you get the idea.
p.s. you're not the first to make this kind of topic.
1) There is a lot of ways of making caps for buying the mercs, and just from killing 1 player from trap u get 20k from BA, 10-15K from weapon, plus SS, etc. So every player = 1 merc
2) They dont have any perks? WTF are u talking about, they have imba critical chances, how many times the plasma mercs can melt u down to ashes?
3) U are talking about something U DONt have any idea. BTW "merc leader expert", builds are maked whit 6 charisma, just for u know.
4) Every gang have AT LEAST 2-4 hummers or highwaymen per player.
We are not talking about prices, we are not talking about charisma here, we are talking about the imbalanced reaction time, and the battle timer. So, if u want to talk about prices/charisma/hummers go and make another topic.
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Your very entertaining Savager.
1) Your retarded if you think every player is worth 1 merc, so that bluesuit really paid for a merc? Or those lowbies with leather armor? (Much more common than someone worth 20k+)
2) They don't have perks. It's a fact, don't speak about things you do not know.
3) Your merc build may have 6 CHA, that does not mean everyone's does. Not everyone likes to rely on drugs.
4) Not every merc leader is a member of a gang.
We are talking about charisma, prices and "imbalanced" reaction time and the battle timer. (You creating this thread doesn't mean you can stop us from doing such a thing. Especially when you didn't even have the brains to try and say OMG THIS ISN'T ABOUT IF MERCS ARE UNBALANCED OR NOT BUT ONLY ABOUT ONE CERTAIN PART OF MERCS) If you read several threads you would know there are massive changes to mercs upcoming INCLUDING changing their battle timer so you can't artillery drop and leave to WM with your mercs with you.
Always, With Love,
Slaver Snipe
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flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame, flame
If you read several threads you would know there are massive changes to mercs upcoming INCLUDING changing their battle timer so you can't artillery drop and leave to WM with your mercs with you.
Always, With Love,
Slaver Snipe
Thx for the green part.
Btw, where did u read that? i cant find it.
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Thx for the green part.
Btw, where did u read that? i cant find it.
it's from practice
yeah, i like my 260+hp plasma boys 8)
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I made video : 100 Merc Kills
http://www.youtube.com/user/Dequz?feature=mhee#p/a/u/0/TifuBRT1Y5Y
thanks for all victims ;)
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I hope we see some changes to merc system after wipe :(
It makes me sad though to watch it before that..
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The only two issues that I see with mercs is a combat timer (has to be fixed) and prices (they tend to explode to ridiculously high amount, sometimes making you to decide whether you should buy 1 merc or buy a base :D).
Reaction time is not a merc issue. If you stumble into mercenary leader with 5 mercs placed properly in TB mode you will die in the same way.
Resolving reaction time:
1. Spawn player on the map after his client has map loaded (I guess this will require changing game client-server communication code).
2. Add sentry modes (so player can autoshoot enemies depending on sentry settings and accuracy threshold).
Just my 0.02$ on the subject.
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I made video : 100 Merc Kills
http://www.youtube.com/user/Dequz?feature=mhee#p/a/u/0/TifuBRT1Y5Y
thanks for all victims ;)
Okay i understand if people try out this for lulz , but this is degrading.
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Well, in that video u can see what im talking about the merc. That thing is more than a BUG i think. I HOPE devs change that thing, otherwise all server may be forced to play mercs leader for his imbalanced attacks.
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Well, in that video u can see what im talking about the merc. That thing is more than a BUG i think. I HOPE devs change that thing, otherwise all server may be forced to play mercs leader for his imbalanced attacks.
There are plenty ways to easily counter such a tactic, most notably, take tanks, use cars as cover, 1hex burst mercs as they come into range. 3 players using car with BG or SG burst could easily kill off these mercs and possibly the players as well.
And it's no different from TB camps where 5 players with TB builds bum-fuck a RT player(s) that got pulled in, however I never see any posts complaining about that.
p.s. the video made my day :)
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I made video : 100 Merc Kills
http://www.youtube.com/user/Dequz?feature=mhee#p/a/u/0/TifuBRT1Y5Y
thanks for all victims ;)
So boring playstyle. :-\
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And it's no different from TB camps where 5 players with TB builds bum-fuck a RT player(s) that got pulled in, however I never see any posts complaining about that.
Because it takes 5 players...
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Because it takes 5 players...
Is there really a difference between being killed by 5 players before you can do anything or dying by 5 mercs before you can do anything?
No. However, in fact you have more chance of surviving a merc trap than a player. In Turnbased you can't run away, in RT you can. Mercs are stupid, some players aren't. Players have powerbuilds, mercs do not. etc etc.
The only thing mercs have over players is they don't have combat timer, and other obvious non-sentient abilities.
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The fact that it takes time to get 5 (or 6 if you include yourself) people together and to wait, camping an encounter. And at least one of these 5 people need to be alert to see if a person enters the encounter.
With mercs, the problem is that it can just be one person that can alt-tab, do whatever, then click back into the game when they hear a gunshot. They don't even need to be actively playing the game, is my point. It usually is RT so the person that just spawned cannot even react. With people, you at least have the chance to run away because humans don't have split second reactions to immediately start combat. And, I'd much rather be killed by 5 people who took the time to get together than one guy who decides to stand around with insta-death computers by his side.
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The fact that it takes time to get 5 (or 6 if you include yourself) people together and to wait, camping an encounter. And at least one of these 5 people need to be alert to see if a person enters the encounter.
With mercs, the problem is that it can just be one person that can alt-tab, do whatever, then click back into the game when they hear a gunshot. They don't even need to be actively playing the game, is my point. It usually is RT so the person that just spawned cannot even react. With people, you at least have the chance to run away because humans don't have split second reactions to immediately start combat. And, I'd much rather be killed by 5 people who took the time to get together than one guy who decides to stand around with insta-death computers by his side.
All truth.
Being killed instantly by 1 player who isn't even playing is much worse than being killed by 5 players who are actively playing.
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It would appear the only solid arguements are nothing but pointless technicalities.
The real problem is your insta killed without possibility to react in the immediate situation or are forced not to.
And really, how often do you find yourself pulled into a player only trap, where it is RT? Never? Probably, though you may have founds yourself in an noob RT trap. Because your right. Players don't have split second reaction times. So they make super TB builds so each of the 5 get 2 turns in a row to rape the RT based victim(s) before he can do anything only requiring one lookout to shoot or yell to them someone is there.
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Mercs are imba thats for sure. But they are expensive so they should stay imba. I like imba things.
The only real problem is loading screen glitch where you can be attacked before you are really ingame. Could be solved by temporary invulnerability/invisiblity (like in eve) for 10 seconds or until character makes some action.
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Mercs are imba thats for sure. But they are expensive so they should stay imba. I like imba things.
The only real problem is loading screen glitch where you can be attacked before you are really ingame. Could be solved by temporary invulnerability/invisiblity (like in eve) for 10 seconds or until character makes some action.
They already tried that. Everyone hated it. I wasn't around to find out why.
But even with this, you would still find yourself surrounded or TB trapped. so you'd be dead anyways.
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Shitty talking Micheal in TB u have always chance ;) In rt merc trap u have no chance.
In TB u can always call for help because u have time compare to RT u dont have because u are splatted before ur screen is loaded.
Merc fighting is just shitty way to think u are cool nothing more.
Me with Rascal always go into TB traps and most times we win vs much more people, its just tactic playing. Compare to merc trap u dont have way to win by tactic. U need to gather moar people just... how pitty
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Mercs are imba thats for sure. But they are expensive so they should stay imba. I like imba things.
Pretty much bullshit. Even with all the proxies around, manpower is still the most lucrative resource so if one player must be offset by several other players to be balanced, it's stupid, no matter how he achieved that. Otherwise 'mercs' would be part of entry level which is completely stupid (eg. fighting without AI companions would be like fighting on lower level).
It's unfortunate that this feature is not going away, but if anything they could work to make it more marginal instead of being more annoying for everyone (stronger, but even more expensive, companions).
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Shitty talking Micheal in TB u have always chance ;) In rt merc trap u have no chance.
In TB u can always call for help because u have time compare to RT u dont have because u are splatted before ur screen is loaded.
Merc fighting is just shitty way to think u are cool nothing more.
Me with Rascal always go into TB traps and most times we win vs much more people, its just tactic playing. Compare to merc trap u dont have way to win by tactic. U need to gather moar people just... how pitty
So in your little world everyone has TB builds, friends on call 24/7, always with gear, and always with first turn so you aren't dead without chance to do any action.
As if. ::)
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Shitty talking Micheal in TB u have always chance ;)
If you get surrounded by 5 snipers or BG TB builds with high sequence in TB then the only chance you have is server crash :D.
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If you get surrounded by 5 snipers or BG TB builds with high sequence in TB then the only chance you have is server crash :D.
You have still chance. Because u have time to give call for friend who can enter with car to have other position ;)
About Micheal shitty talk
You dont have merc lider with max 3 mercs? Then stop talking bullshit :) Gear is lowest problem and only moron like u go on solo hunt for TB trups huh
So in your little world everyone has TB builds, friends on call 24/7, always with gear, and always with first turn so you aren't dead without chance to do any action.
As if.
So in your little world everyone has Merc builds, friends on call 24/7, always with merc geared, and always will find you without call to go into trap but you still dont have chance to do any action because of instadead from merc :).
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u have time to give call for friend who can enter with car to have other position ;)
What, your friend can drive half a world before some one makes a turn/pulls a trigger in TB encounter?
That's really stupid game feature!!! D:
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You have still chance. Because u have time to give call for friend who can enter with car to have other position ;)
About Micheal shitty talk
You dont have merc lider with max 3 mercs? Then stop talking bullshit :) Gear is lowest problem and only moron like u go on solo hunt for TB trups huh
When the hell am I saying I am hunting TB traps huh? ::) And what is this dumbshit about merc leader with 3 max mercs that is insanely stupid in it's own right.
So in your little world everyone has Merc builds, friends on call 24/7, always with merc geared, and always will find you without call to go into trap but you still dont have chance to do any action because of instadead from merc :).
I never said everyone needed to have merc builds, you're the one with the idea on friends to call 24/7 so start making sense... not that I don't know you're just a troll with seriously bad grammar, when did I say anything about always having gear? In fact I said the opposite so you can start reading or quit being a dumbass :), and this next part doesn't make sense whatsoever so I'm not even gonna mention about it...
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Yea i know i have bad grammar (i dun care much about it actually :o )
I was just saying about u have chance in tb trap compare to merc trap :) and say they are not imba
Most of your shitty talk its that u can't get that
When the hell am I saying I am hunting TB traps huh? And what is this dumbshit about merc leader with 3 max mercs that is insanely stupid in it's own right.
Micheal u are too dumb to get it damnit :) It was just saying in TB u have chance because u are not instakilled So in your little world everyone has TB builds
There is much people who play only in TB and i dont think they will do shitty build for pvp in TB. But u poor dude u dont have friends to know that probably, and when i say "call for help" it mean distress. In merc trap u dont have time to do it ;)
when did I say anything about always having gear?
So in your little world everyone has TB builds, friends on call 24/7, always with gear
Hmm BTW where i said 24/7 ;)? I play with people, not alone like u. Then that argument is invalid ;D
But back to topic
Merc traps are imba because of 2 things
Shoot before u even have screen.
2nd is that spawn point on locations are always soo close to self (or there is only one spawn point?)
P.S. Bla bla bla bla need moar beer
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Micheal u are too dumb to get it damnit :) It was just saying in TB u have chance because u are not instakilled
There is much people who play only in TB and i dont think they will do shitty build for pvp in TB.
I was just talking about traps in TB and RT being equally insta-kill since there is no escape if you are on or use a RT build, and even with TB the enemies in the trap will always get first turn to rape you. You're the one who doesn't understand anything, constantly going on about how everything is about TB combat, nothing you are saying makes sense to what I have said.
But u poor dude u dont have friends to know that probably, and when i say "call for help" it mean distress. In merc trap u dont have time to do it ;)
you don't know anything about me or my friends obviously so whatever you say bro. ::)
Hmm BTW where i said 24/7 ;)? I play with people, not alone like u. Then that argument is invalid ;D
Could've sworn we were talking about traps. Traps occuring at any time, anywhere, whether or not you have friends on call. And the way you are putting it, it would appear that doesn't matter cus you have people ready 24/7. Again you don't bother to read and continue being a jackass.
Merc traps are imba because of 2 things
Shoot before u even have screen.
2nd is that spawn point on locations are always soo close to self (or there is only one spawn point?)
P.S. Bla bla bla bla need moar beer
and TB traps are imba because of 2 things.
1. If you're an RT build you have absolutely no chance of escaping.
2. Shoot before you can do anything whether or not screen is loaded.
You're no. 2 isn't sensible for any maps other than Desert, because there are several spawn points scattered around the maps.
p.s. I am going to assume you are drinking all the time. ::)
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and TB traps are imba because of 2 things.
1. If you're an RT build you have absolutely no chance of escaping.
2. Shoot before you can do anything whether or not screen is loaded.
and merc traps are imba because of 2 things.
1. If you're any build you have absolutely no chance of escaping.
2. Shoot before you can do anything whether or not screen is loaded.
But people dont have soo fast react time like npc they dont shoot soo fast and ur screen can be loaded. You die fast only if u have small hp build like sniper or something like that.
But true RT build vs TB build in tb have no chance (especially in encounters with walls what enemy can hide etc)
And again i don't play alone then that 24/7 is most stupid ever thing :) i play only if i have somebody to play with him. Even if i ride/walk alone its hmm u know not hard too just dont go to zones what people usually make merc traps. (i got merc trapped only 2 times, when i start playing that game and 2nd when enemy tb group have trap for us and it wasnt normal "merc trap", thats sad they cant win in tb they need to make merc trap but it was funny)
Blah blah blah
oh yea but we have atleast word from michealch merc are imba :D
RT being equally insta-kill
TB still is more fair than merc for me. You can win tb traps having less people than enemy. But in merc traps huh u cant alone vs 1 merc lider +5 mercs ;)
Oh and michealch no hard felling but about having several spawn point hmm i saw only 2 maps what have, and one map is crazy when u spawn inside some house xD (hard fucked by anything )
But again back to topic, merc are not used only in traps.
And again here they are OP because u can insta assault with them and run to WM ;) They should stay inside (and dieeeee)
something something i dun remember. Moar flame xD
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I hope this not gonna go to lets remove mercs and turn based combat... Anyway wipe will change the way mercs work just look at the closed beta you can see they no longer act like mules.
About TB traps sometimes you win sometimes you don't thats all I can say about that.
You can win in RT too there is some tricks that can help to kill them off but you need to know that you going to a trap otherwise you have no chance.
Best way to avoid RT going in TB to avoid TB go in RT.
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falled into TB trap of 3 players once with a party of 5-6... Was reduced to 2 halfdead before we were able to shoot or do someshit...
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falled into TB trap of 3 players once with a party of 5-6... Was reduced to 2 halfdead before we were able to shoot or do someshit...
"Best way to avoid RT going in TB to avoid TB go in RT."
Actually this is true ;D