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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Ulrek on November 02, 2011, 10:05:29 pm

Title: "Bonus move" in real time.
Post by: Ulrek on November 02, 2011, 10:05:29 pm
Every level of bonus move allows you to regen 2 AP even while moving in real time.

Thoughts? is it possible?

*Edit* Also, change the name to "Run & gun", and perhaps use the fast shot icon if you want, since that's still what it lets you do in TB, move around easier while still shooting..

-Ulrek-
Title: Re: "Bonus move" in real time.
Post by: Izual on November 02, 2011, 10:33:05 pm
http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=9511.msg81182#msg81182
Title: Re: "Bonus move" in real time.
Post by: Chrupek on November 03, 2011, 12:04:14 pm
Izual, you were suggesting making another topic for RT bonus move, so this link is useless (and confusing too).
Title: Re: "Bonus move" in real time.
Post by: Izual on November 03, 2011, 12:26:38 pm
There was a small debate about Bonus Move in RT there, so I linked it for information of this topic's readers.
Title: Re: "Bonus move" in real time.
Post by: Chrupek on November 03, 2011, 12:48:49 pm
Ohh, ok. I tought u were saying 'there was similar suggestion, stop make topics'.
Title: Re: "Bonus move" in real time.
Post by: Eternauta on November 03, 2011, 02:14:49 pm
Imho, perks like bonus ranged damage or toughness, which are already used, would still be better.
Title: Re: "Bonus move" in real time.
Post by: T-888 on November 03, 2011, 05:03:11 pm
http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=19102.0

Another must have perk , more alts due to the existing ones already mini-maxed as much as possible.

I wanted this feature to be implemented without restrictions of perks and shit , but people didn't understand the big picture.
Title: Re: "Bonus move" in real time.
Post by: Chrupek on November 03, 2011, 09:20:50 pm
Here we go again... stop crying about 'your' suggestion. Its immature. yeah, youre the only one who see 'big picture', but stick to the topic.
In your topic u were punching people who were suggesting anything about 'bonus move', for offtop. So be consequent, and restrict your own rules. You have something about Bonus Move in RT? Leave it here.

I dont know if is good idea to buff this perk.
It works perfectly in TB combat (yes Izual, it works and there are beast chars out there, who take it twice and own in ambushes), so giving a little addition in RT wont be a problem, but honestly: this perk is GREAT for special build. So buffing it, will buff some character, which take it either would be buffet, or not.

Remember, every perk could be USEFULL or NOT. there is no third option, because of calculations. So if perk would be USEFULL in RT, some players would take it twice. And that could became a little unbalanced. Twice more unbalanced, than with 'normal' perks.
In Izual's topic, were talk about group of perks. I have nothing against Bonus Move as a TB perk, nothing more.

And, is there any definite suggestion about how that perk will work in RT? I mean, exact numbers, and formulas.


Title: Re: "Bonus move" in real time.
Post by: Michaelh139 on November 03, 2011, 09:26:29 pm
I would calculate it roughly around this:

1 bonus move perk = 25% action point regen while moving.
2 bonus move perk = 50% action point regen while moving.

The percentages are cut from whatever the speed of current max action point is.

This is rough, but I think this perk has potential in Real Time with this effect.
Title: Re: "Bonus move" in real time.
Post by: T-888 on November 03, 2011, 10:55:19 pm
Quote from: Chrupek on November 03, 2011, 09:20:50 pm
....

I said didn't " understand " the big picture , you saw it but didn't accept it for obsolete reasons.

Quote from: Michaelh139 on November 03, 2011, 09:26:29 pm
I would calculate it roughly around this:

1 bonus move perk = 25% action point regen while moving.
2 bonus move perk = 50% action point regen while moving.

The percentages are cut from whatever the speed of current max action point is.

This is rough, but I think this perk has potential in Real Time with this effect.

Alright sounds fine , but i have a question for thread maker that can concern your idea.

Ulrek do you want bonus move perk to allow a fixed amount of action points to be regenerated without any speed penalty or the Michaelh version ? It does matter , you didn't make a precise enough description about your suggestion , no offense.
Title: Re: "Bonus move" in real time.
Post by: Ulrek on November 03, 2011, 11:36:52 pm
Quote from: T-888 on November 03, 2011, 10:55:19 pm

Ulrek do you want bonus move perk to allow a fixed amount of action points to be regenerated without any speed penalty or the Michaelh version ? It does matter , you didn't make a precise enough description about your suggestion , no offense.


I listed exactly what it would do, every Bonus move perk you take lets you regen 2 AP even while walking or running, at the cost of making you more squishy because you might not take something else that helps with defense because of it. (I'm not offended but i didn't type anything else other then the changes i suggested, what didn't you understand about it if i might ask?)

The 25% thing would be a bit OP if spammed for a sniper i think, but it could also work, i just think capping it at the max APs you can have while running around like a scout in TF2 should be 4-5, to prevent anyone other then 1h users from kiting really well.

-Ulrek-
Title: Re: "Bonus move" in real time.
Post by: Y0ssarian on November 07, 2011, 08:16:05 am
Well okay, I make a melee char who constantly runs around for someone who can shoot, run whilst waiting to shoot again? That sounds like PvP in AC where all archers/mages did was skip around to kite melee users. Maybe I understand this wrong. Sorry for thread necromancy.

Title: Re: "Bonus move" in real time.
Post by: Chrupek on November 07, 2011, 09:08:34 am
You cant run and shoot simultaneously so that probem will never exist. As a sniper, you can run around to recharge your APs, but if you want to shoot u have to stop, and your character is performing shoot animation.
Title: Re: "Bonus move" in real time.
Post by: Ulrek on November 09, 2011, 03:11:34 am
Quote from: Chrupek on November 07, 2011, 09:08:34 am
You cant run and shoot simultaneously so that probem will never exist. As a sniper, you can run around to recharge your APs, but if you want to shoot u have to stop, and your character is performing shoot animation.

Actually only a gunslinger with Brof would be dangerous, since you can only regen 4 AP max while running, that's one aimed shot to the leg for example, it's not perfect, but HtH's are a cheaper build then a guy running around with a gun, that's the entire idea behind it.

-Ulrek-
Title: Re: "Bonus move" in real time.
Post by: Johnnybravo on November 09, 2011, 02:20:40 pm
Geez, just make movement speed scale with action points (with bonus move factored in) and call it done. Seriously it works like that in turnbased.
Title: Re: "Bonus move" in real time.
Post by: Wallace on November 11, 2011, 08:58:56 pm
Quote from: Johnnybravo on November 09, 2011, 02:20:40 pm
Geez, just make movement speed scale with action points (with bonus move factored in) and call it done. Seriously it works like that in turnbased.

I'm on it! In fact i suggested that nearly 2 years ago but got trolled and rejected...

Dunno why cuz it's reasonable and obvious that 1 AG guy with bruiser should NOT run just as fast as 10 AG dude with 2 x bonus move + 2 x action boy with a smudge of jet still visible on his mouth  =/
Title: Re: "Bonus move" in real time.
Post by: Ganado on November 11, 2011, 09:39:55 pm
I remember the problem being that the frames that the animation uses would look ridiculous if it is slowed down or sped up to make it like that. I think that the original suggestion is good enough. Making movement speed, if even possible, based on the amount of AG would make AP too much more important than it already is in battle.
Title: Re: "Bonus move" in real time.
Post by: Wallace on November 11, 2011, 10:00:19 pm
Listen i'm not saying to implement it during this era...  When 3d comes i'd love to see that feature (speed being AP dependant) already implemented
Title: Re: "Bonus move" in real time.
Post by: Johnnybravo on November 11, 2011, 10:53:27 pm
Quote from: Dishonest Abe on November 11, 2011, 09:39:55 pm
Making movement speed, if even possible, based on the amount of AG would make AP too much more important than it already is in battle.
That's silly. You are OK with it being in TB, yet it feels wrong in RT?
Look HP is important as well, so is your sight range. There are some stats that bring little to nothing though. Like there is almost no benefit from having more strength than your weapon requires. Same for intelligence as well.
Also remember when all the values are not that important, customization is usually just boring and game as well.
Imagine action points being as irrelevant as carry weight for example. That's how it works in F3. All your stats are just boring numbers instead of actually defining your character.

I buy the animation issues, maybe even other issues as network stability, but that's something that can be resolved for example by making current speed the highest speed possible to achieve (well probably not just like that, because everyone would move way too slow, but you get the idea). To be honest in Fallout your character run goddamn fast and it did not look that bad.
Title: Re: "Bonus move" in real time.
Post by: Desert Mutt on November 11, 2011, 11:33:01 pm
I like Wallace's idea - it adds one more step towards reconciliation between TB and RT (I guess this issue deserves a separate topic).

As for now TB is one game, RT is completely different game, this fact ruins overall game experience as you can't play both games effectively as some stats and perks in one game doesn't make any sense for another and you can be forced into game that you don't like. This topic is a good example of the effects produced by the issue, as well as topics like "Mercs are too fast in RT", Another side effects of the same issue: good TB and RT big gunners are different builds, 6 shots pistol build may work only in TB, 11 AP in RT is lesser disadvantage than 11 AP in TB etc.
Title: Re: "Bonus move" in real time.
Post by: Shonsu on November 12, 2011, 09:54:08 am
Quote from: Wallace on November 11, 2011, 08:58:56 pm
I'm on it! In fact i suggested that nearly 2 years ago but got trolled and rejected...

Dunno why cuz it's reasonable and obvious that 1 AG guy with bruiser should NOT run just as fast as 10 AG dude with 2 x bonus move + 2 x action boy with a smudge of jet still visible on his mouth  =/
I was just thinking about this.  Personally I don't care if the animation would "look ridiculous" especially since it's ridiculous that a guy with 7 (movement) AP can keep up with a guy who has 14 (M) AP.