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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Savager on October 28, 2011, 05:42:52 pm
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First: THIS IS NOT A SUGGESTION, ITS ONLY FOR CHAT ABOUT THE SUBJECT AND SEE WHAT THE COMUNITY THINKS.
So i was reading some comments in another post, and i come with this idea that whould be GREAT to implement, and MAY eliminate the need or desire of using alts.
And its IMPROVING LEVEL CAP or ELIMINATE LEVEL CAP.
So for lvl 21 you need 210000 XP points. But if u want continue leveling, u can do some special quest, and u can get more levels.
So, for the players that want to continue playing lvl 21, it whould be ok because u are powerfull enough. And for the ones that like a LOT OF GRIND AND XP, u can continue leveling up your character and improving.
So, in this way, u decide if u want to continue or not.
If u dont like grinding xp-> then dont get the quest
If u like improving your char-> then do the quest, and prepare for a lot of pve.
So improving from lvl 21 and on is going to take A LOT of xp points, but it whould be NOT IMPOSIBBLE to do it (like now, u can have 999k of exp, and still being lvl 21)
SO THIS IS MY IDEA:
Acording to wiki:
Level Required Experience points New perk available New perk available (If skilled trait is chosen)
19 171000 (+18000) No. No.
20 190000 (+19000) No. Yes !
21 210000 (+20000) Yes ! No.
And this is my idea:
Level Required Experience points New perk available New perk available (If skilled trait is chosen)
22 2.410.000 (+2.200.000) No. No.
23 4.710.000 (+2.300.000) No. No.
24 7.110.000 (+2.400.000) Yes !. Yes !.
25 12.110.000 (+5.000.000) No. No.
26 17.310.000 (+5.200.000) No. No.
27 22.510.000 (+5.400.000) Yes !. No.
28 34.710.000 (+12.200.000) No. Yes !.
And so on (this numbers may change, May exist level cap in like 30 or max lvl be like 99999)
So this is going to be good, because more people whould focus in having 1 good single character and not using a lot of diferrent. Because if u want a legendary and powerfull char, u need to focus in improving only 1.
So u can have multis weak chars, or 1 powerfull single one.
So what do u think of this idea? It whould be good? Be bad?
Whould make people stop making so much alts and focus more in develop 1 character?? Did you have some complain about this idea?
Your idea is better or u say that this can be improved?
Lets talk about this!
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Even suggestions are often (always) talked a bit more through before (if) they go ingame. This will stay here in suggestions, atleast for now.
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This wouldnt stop alting in any way shape or form, at least not with the XP you have there.
I could either hit lvl 22 or make 10 alts to 21 for that amount of experience the minor health boost/skill points would basically be pointless for the amount of time it would take to grind it anywhere.
(Oh look I did nothing for 3 weeks except farm and I'm level 22 now YEA! 2 more and i can get a perk!)
I couldn't see anyone bothering with this, the pvp apes wouldn't because it would take so much time away from their pvp, roleplayers wouldn't since...they don't grind and normal people don't have 3 weeks of boredom to reach one new level. Anybody leveling a character like this would probably be some 1337 pr0 and those few extra skillpoints would simply go into a combat skill.
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It has been suggested already (http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=8370.0), over year ago.
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Poor molerats and centaurs (or other creatures after fixing XP and rat's crit table, because there will be anyway "the best XP/hour giver" creature). XP shouldn't be grinded, it should be harder to get after some time putting more effort and resources into it instead of "wasting more and more time".
I mean instead of "Oh noes, now I need to do the same task but x100 times more than before to reach next level" it should be "Now I can't level further with my current low tech equipment or without friends or without NPC help because of low CH or because I'm not in NPC faction or because I did no quests, etc."
I think leveling after some level (like 9th) should be possible only if you're in a party of players or something, critters that are possible to handle alone shouldn't give you any XP after that level, and only patrols or large packs of critters would give you XP. And than further you go in level than harder critters you should fight to get any XP at all. Mantis, rats, scorpions shouldn't give you even 1 XP per kill after like 5-6 level. This way you can get high level only by focusing on PvE much, may be getting XP after ~20th level will be possible only by killing Enclave troopers at thier base. So if you're alone, don't have nice equipment, you won't reach high level, as you won't get XP from critters you can handle alone and you'll need to find help from people and better equipment.
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Those who say that removing level cap would turn into molerat killing 24/7 don't take the fact into consideration that when people have finished exping one alt, they start exping another which equals molerat hunting 24/7 but with another char.
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Wasn't it said that the level cap will go up to lvl24 so both skilled and not skilled chars with finish with a perk?
I can't find it in search but I remember it was said correct me if I'm wrong.
Avv you pretty much said my reasons for new chars the old one reached lvl21 although I don't do power xping I don't like that. I prefer leveling slowly and steadily with lots of variety and with a bit of company around.
Btw I find RavenousRat's idea interesting but I feel there wouldn't be many who would like a system like that sadly cause it sounds interesting and promotes team play.
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Said it before and il say it again, level cap is too high! Drop it to level 12, removing lifegiver and BROF, making the newcomer less weak compared to max leveled characters.
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Remove leveling up! Character after creation is ready to go, no need to boring molerats grindfest, no gap between newcomers and maxed chars, no ...
Wait, what?
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Exactly.
And guys, are you interested in counter-argument for the bullshit of "versatile" characters with no cap limit? Characters have already became heavily versatile BECAUSE OF THE CAP LIMIT! Universal fighters, universal crafters, all in the way to achieve it faster. I started with really universal guy because I did not know there is any limit, thought that I can take some perks later and so on. Now, what possibility do I have, to make 5 characters using some suggested procedure to make the best?
I mean WTF, what kind of playing is this? LIMITS ARE GENERALLY EVIL. Cap limit kills the game. There is every time somebody in your level stage so you will always have enemy. If not Enclave than other high-level players, but still somebody.
Or even the level of enemies in encounters can be counted acording to your own level...
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Those who say that removing level cap would turn into molerat killing 24/7 don't take the fact into consideration that when people have finished exping one alt, they start exping another which equals molerat hunting 24/7 but with another char.
But the power from each character isn't combined. You can make 1000 alts, it doesn't mean you are 1000x as powerful. And people obviously aren't leveling all the time, or else there'd be no fights. If there is no level cap, people would be leveling all the time to always try to be one step better than the other guys. It will just encourage more "no-lifeing" then there already is. There has to be a cap. I'm all for the level cap being raised, but it needs to have a cap so there is a top level which everyone can get to so that it is more equal, and not just grinding to see who can get to level 632+ first.
Said it before and il say it again, level cap is too high! Drop it to level 12, removing lifegiver and BROF, making the newcomer less weak compared to max leveled characters.
And fights can last 12 seconds.
Remove leveling up! Character after creation is ready to go, no need to boring molerats grindfest, no gap between newcomers and maxed chars, no ...
Wait, what?
And fights can last 1 second.. whoever bursts first, wins! :>
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Remove leveling up! Character after creation is ready to go, no need to boring molerats grindfest, no gap between newcomers and maxed chars, no ...
Wait, what?
It's not bad thing to do, problem is you cannot manage alts this way. Fonline allows you to do everything from level 1, so there is no education purpose in leveling. However if you got everything for 'free' there is no way to restrict players from getting huge amount of characters quickly.
As for leveling itself, I've been thinking about something new based on current trend - collecting achievements.
Imagine system with tons of achievements with scaled difficulty - and to level up from 1 to level 2, you would then be expected to complete for example 3 of 10 tier 1 achievements ( like shove x shits, kill y rats, get a weapon, etc. ).
For alt purpose there would always be the fastest tree, but it should be kinda educating, as well as with some replay value and entertainment.
On other hand achievements sounds somewhat unoriginal, but they are no different to quests really, just don't require backstory consuming a lot of development.
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And fights can last 1 second.. whoever bursts first, wins! :>
No! 1st level fights will be most interesting, you'll have variety of strange builds, also bursts won't so good, as you'll have low weapon skill. Best weapon will be grenade and 1 ST build, so it won't be thrown on more than 3 hexes and you will always hit and kill with 1 throw even if miss. Or may be 2 ST build, if grenade won't miss on many hexes if thrown on 6 hexes. Or SG fast shoters with mausers or sawn-off shotguns (accurate perk + one hander trait)! Also armor would play really great role, as there will be no aimed shots, the only problem are bazooka-40-hex-shot users (actually you can do it with ANY build, but better to have 7-10 PE), as when rocket misses, it explodes on 40th hex or on nearest obstacle on it's way, this way everyone would run with bazookas and grenades/mausers/sawn-off shotguns and BAs, because BA will protect you from fast shoter shotgun/mauser users. Also everyone will say "me" "qill" "yoo", as INT will be useless SPECIAL!
1st level powerbuild!!1 :
S 3
P 7
E 10
C 1
I 1
A 10
L 8
One Hander
Fast Shot
Tagged SG: 65%
Unarmed: 76%
First Aid: 36%
HP: 38
Bazooka for long distance and if victim is near wall.
Sawn-off shotgun or mauser for only 3 AP per shot on mid distance. Or 10mm smg or grease gun.
Can use grenades to explode into pieces!
Always run in BA to have higher AC! Watch out walls and try to keep <35 hexes between you and your enemy to not die from bazooka.
Don't let enemy get close to you, or else they will throw grenades! Shoot with a mauser on it's max distance! And you'll own all other 1st level noobs on server, if there's impossible to level up!
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Always run in BA to have higher AC!
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CA mk2 is best for low health as it gives higher base AC :D
other than that, seems legit. ;)
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LIMITS ARE GENERALLY EVIL.
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Limits are the foundation of calculus o.O
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Said it before and il say it again, level cap is too high! Drop it to level 12, removing lifegiver and BROF, making the newcomer less weak compared to max leveled characters.
I support this. +1 Once u get lvl 21 powerbuild with 250hp its highly unlikely to get killed by critters (not including aliens). Id rather see more primitive guns, small difference between players and PvE, now all u get at 21 is uber tech weaponz so u can mess around with ur powerbuild and shit upon killing a bluesuit just for fun, no point to make a bigger gap with fonline2238ish attitude lol.
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Its beta, so we can try one season without lvl cap. It will be somethomg new ....
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But the power from each character isn't combined. You can make 1000 alts, it doesn't mean you are 1000x as powerful. And people obviously aren't leveling all the time, or else there'd be no fights. If there is no level cap, people would be leveling all the time to always try to be one step better than the other guys. It will just encourage more "no-lifeing" then there already is. There has to be a cap. I'm all for the level cap being raised, but it needs to have a cap so there is a top level which everyone can get to so that it is more equal, and not just grinding to see who can get to level 632+ first.
Ofcourse there should be restriction how powerful the char can be in terms of hitpoints and perks. But utility abilities that have no impact on combat could be maxed on one char.
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No level cap would only result in boring competition. Who gets bored last by killing centaurs is last player here with levele zillion.
No level cap with only skills expand after lvl 21 would result to many 1int chars. Thus only rising level cap to certain level where leveling more have no point.
I admit that this game have the fastest leveling to max level of all MMOs i know (3 evenings for pvp ape) but..... You need many alts here. One level 21 char will not let you play effectively or fully this game. But still in 10 to 20 days you can have easily all the nescessary alts properly leveled.
Prolonging exping period thus might seem like good idea if..... the exping here would not be such a boring task (take mentats, do most of the quest in game, reach lvl 4-6 take flamer or some pistol, kill centaurs till lvl 21).
So i think that with current lack of content three evenings of boring repetitive centaur slaughter is enough. Lvl cap 21 is fine.
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So you say its better to be bored sooner with lvl 21?
There is always something to do. With no cap you can add limitless profession level (I mean have one character for more types of crafting). But you don't have to. This is what I mean, give players the possibility to choose! If they want, they can have more chars, or one stronger character. Even the strongest one could be over-run by group of players. So even in TC that won't make problems cause leveling up one strong character is long thus it makes you not have many of them.
And as for PK, there are always ass-holes. Blue-shirt lvl 1 could be killed with lvl 5 fool. So what, we restrict to level 4? You don't see the stupidity here? This only makes me to want higher level so they can't kill me (or so I can defend myself). Why going stupid socialistic way of bans? Is this about being jealous? You have low level, so the rest must have low level too?
Sooner or later alway comes moment when you will get bored. But the thing is with no limit it can come later. You can do more things (craft more, built faction and try TC).
I will say this right here - if there won't be change soon, I will get back to original Fallout 2 and/or Wasteland Merc 2. Playing again from sratch after every wipe with the knowledge there is the end in a few weeks - what is this for? For me it is so extremely discouraging that I realyl consider ending right now. I like the way of F2 - having character with piece of everything. If you wanted better character with better perks, you could level up. I personally never did over 40 anyway, but why take the possibity away? Let players choose. Don't play gods by forcing something.
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So even in TC that won't make problems cause leveling up one strong character is long thus it makes you not have many of them.
This doesn't counter the argument that states that players will just no-life grind well past level 24 to keep leveling to try be one step better than the opposition. You can't deny it, that will happen. People will just keep leveling until they reach a point where they are equal to the rest to make for a fair fight, unless a limit is placed.
But utility abilities that have no impact on combat could be maxed on one char.
Okay, but the suggestion did not mention any limits on HP or skill; I was referring to that. But that would still be too vague to say because some builds need more combat skill than other types, and even passive skills can help with combat, like outdoorsman (getting to the combat). I think that choosing one thing should limit the other thing, not find a way to have 300% in almost everything.
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will *You* hit that plank soon?
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Does any of You lvled champ to 99 lvl in F2?
It take ages..., for lvling you need stuff. To get enough stuff to lvlup char to infinity lvl You need a lot of time.
Removing lvl cap should bring new life coz you will get something new while playing on one char, and if you do something wrong and you get ban it will hurt, not like its now.
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The 13 in game years limit always stoped me to do that but have tried many times...
Anyway I personally want to see a level cap which can be divided with 4 and 3 too so no matter if the player has skilled or not the end level will come with a perk:)
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If people are scared of players exping on molerats forever, we could put a limit on how far you can level one char in normal way and then put dedicating exping grounds in visible unsafe areas. Put some nasty monsters in towns and other unsafe visible locations, like Sierra and Mariposa. These monsters could then reward the chars with say, Advanced Experience which allows levelling over max cap. In additon every tc town could have their own exping area but away from tc zones so that those nasty monsters wouldn't bother tc fights.
This brings more activity in towns and encourages hunting in groups because you might be jumped on at any time.
The method of exping in these locations should be more like search and destroy, rather than kiting a massive mob like in Diablo cow level. This is because if you get jumped on while exping, you don't have to fight the players and the huge mob.
There could be other forms of getting advanced exp, like fucking whores in Reno or drinking currently pointless drinks at unsafe bars such as the ones in BH and Redding.
Okay, but the suggestion did not mention any limits on HP or skill; I was referring to that. But that would still be too vague to say because some builds need more combat skill than other types, and even passive skills can help with combat, like outdoorsman (getting to the combat). I think that choosing one thing should limit the other thing, not find a way to have 300% in almost everything.
Well, the point when someone has 300 od as untagged skill, everyone else has car tents. Personally I wouldn't hurry with outdoorsman on my pvp char because buggies in spawntents would be faster option and in the end you will have so many cars that you hardly ever move with outdoorsman. Besides even now, 300 od pathfinder proxy is used as taxi. Outdoorsman actually needs a buff.
What's more troubblesome are sneak, fa and doc. But no worries, sneak is affected by gear and it's very useful only with silent running and ghost perks.
What comes to doc and fa, it's not a big deal. 300 would be the standard ammount of doc and fa for all chars in the end. There could be variations depending on character's special and equipment which could have big effect on the outcome when the skill was used. This way skill 300% wouldn't mean "As good as superman" but "as good as this specific character can become".
So for example perception and intelligence could give bonuses to doc and fa to discourage int1 builds.
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Well, i was about to suggest improving level cap to something like 35-40. For me will eliminate half of alts.
The 13 in game years limit always stoped me to do that but have tried many times...
Anyway I personally want to see a level cap which can be divided with 4 and 3 too so no matter if the player has skilled or not the end level will come with a perk:)
Mmm... 3x4=12. So any multiple of 16 should be ok. 24, 48,...
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3x4=16
Lol, use calculator.
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3x4=16.
Epic:) Well, 12 looks too low. 24 looks ok. 36 looks too high for me.
Maybe im alone, but i like to play 21lvl chars. Its nice feeling, when your build can handle wasteland.
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Lol, use calculator.
Whoops. Goddamit maths...
It was to see if you were looking!
BTW, corrected.
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we need a way to buff new players without buffing pro players on low lvl chars
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Some time ago they suggested a sort of "newbie village", basically a location normally unaccesible where new players spawn. There they can learn the basis of the game, like crafting, combat, etc etc... In the process, they gain equipment and levels (thru quests)
I always thought that is one of the best ideas to help newbies.
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HEY GUYS CHECK OUT THIS AWESOME IDEA
Acording to wiki:
Level Required Experience points New perk available New perk available (If skilled trait is chosen)
19 171000 (+18000) No. No.
20 190000 (+19000) No. Yes !
21 210000 (+20000) Yes ! No.
And this is my idea:
Level Required Experience points New perk available New perk available (If skilled trait is chosen)
22 9999999.410.000 (+99999999) No. No.
23 9999999.710.000 (+99999999) No. No.
24 99999999.110.000 (+99999999) Yes !. Yes !.
25 999999999.110.000 (+9999999) No. No.
26 9999999999.310.000 (+99999999) No. No.
27 99999999999.510.000 (+99999999) Yes !. No.
28 999999999999.710.000 (+99999999) No. Yes !.
Just look how awesome it is. Only complete no-lifes would ever reach anything beyond 21 lvl thus making them even more powerful. ISN'T IT GREAT?
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ISN'T IT GREAT?
* fap fap fap *
Seriously now - is there really big difference between 220 and 250 combat skill? And 300, does it make "mah laz0r" firing more accurate in a noticable way?
I personally see no decent difference in pure-taxi with 300% Outdoorsman and my uber-woodsman with 201%.
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but +15hp each level above 21 will make the difference.
idea is complete crap; sharing char-grind encourage feature. Probably leads to repetable knock out-heal script for Ape char, and his 'friend' who is never existed person with +200hp char. I hope that will never be implemented.
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Seriously now - is there really big difference between 220 and 250 combat skill? And 300, does it make "mah laz0r" firing more accurate in a noticable way?
Weapons skill% is not but accuracy. So uberhigh weaponskill means that you can drop your strength to 1 and move the points elsewhere. If everyone could raise their gunskill to 300, it would mean that pretty much all builds would take strength 1 or 2, unless they wanted stonewall. Weapon handling perk would lose its meaning.
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but +15hp each level above 21 will make the difference.
Raising HP can be blocked at any level.
Weapons skill% is not but accuracy. So uberhigh weaponskill means that you can drop your strength to 1 and move the points elsewhere. If everyone could raise their gunskill to 300, it would mean that pretty much all builds would take strength 1 or 2, unless they wanted stonewall. Weapon handling perk would lose its meaning.
There are already 1-2 ST chars, 1 CH chars, 1 LK chars, minmaxed chars. It's not game's fault, people will always look for the shortest way to achieve their goals.
Anyway removing level cap not gonna happen, it's way better to have thousands of alts with average ~200 players. Just imagine this horror: people would be self-sufficient, jack-of-all-trades, economy would be ruined, and interaction will suffer. Wait, don't we have that situation right now? :>
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And this is my idea:
You mean no life for 3 days? its not THAT hard if u know how to do it. Anyway, can anyone tell me the reason for raising cap? Devs are trying to balance current 21 lvl system. Besides, newbies would be even more powned, which would be sad intro to making newbie-and-higher-population-friendly game, if its ever planned lol.