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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Savager on October 12, 2011, 07:40:14 pm
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So, i start to play a unarmed character, and make 3 hth chars to test out how they work and try to get some fun. But after trying diferent builds, i realize that is very very difficult to kill actually someone. The only good chance to actually kill is having insta-kill, but is very rare, and happen 1 of 20 fights.
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So, when fighting vs bluesuits bare hand or spiked knuckles are nice, hitting criticals to eyes from 15 to 40 aprox.
But when enemy have metal armor mk2 spiked does little, u need like 7-15 hits to kill a nice hp guy because the armor sucks up all the damage (i hit like from 4-6 to 20-25 maximum).And they burst me 2 times and i die (im using 245 hp build).
So, i begin to use power fist but my surprise was very big when i realize that the diff was very very little.
SO i was thinking, hey the mega power fist will be my savior. But nope!.
There is ANOTHER tier of armor, the called Brotherhood armor. And mega power fist make little damage vs that.
When i run to fight vs BG, 2 burst and i die. When i run vs plasma, i got hitted from 24 to 1 hex for criticals of 120-160-240.
When i run to fight with snipers, well if i dont get knock down, blinded, instakilled, or knock out, and have A LOT OF RL luck, i can get close hit and MAYBE if i cripple his leg, prevent to run to exit grid.
And when i run vs rocket launchers, well they have to escape or get hitted by his own rocket hahaha. Its the only good one.
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So i was thinking that maybe a little rebalance of the weapons can make up this, because getting close is TOO DAMM hard whitout being bursted knocked crippled exploted desintegrated. So i proposs give a little plus of damage to the weapons
This is content from the wiki that i copy paste:
Spiked Knuckles 8-20 Normal
Power Fist 12-24 Normal
Mega Power Fist 20-40 Normal
And my suggestion is this:
Spiked Knuckles 10-20 Normal
Power Fist 20-30 Normal
Mega Power Fist 30-60 Normal
Maybe someones will cry OHMYGOD MEGAPOWERFIST IS OP!! TOO MUCH DAMAGE NERF PLoX!!
(http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/1412/berserks.jpg)
Plasma Rifle 30-65 Plasma
Its almost the damage of plasma rifle!! OMG OP!
No.
Why not?
Because u have to run 24 hex to your enemy to hit them in the face. AND if you have the luck/balls/strenght to survive all that running, and your enemy does not run first to exit grid you must deserve punch them and smash they pretty/ugly face and killem.
Support my idea please!!
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yes unarmed weapons do need massive boost you do have to run pretty far so you should be doing good damage if you make it.
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The rock is clearly the best hth weapon. not even joking.
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It's not ok to buff spiked knuckles. That thing is made of junk and no reason why it shouldn't be junk. It already feels very powerful for it's pitiful price.
Power fist could probably do even little more than that, but then again mega power fist is eating 2 cells, right?
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Melee and Unarmed should be the most powerful weapons in game. (Notice how I said the "WEAPONS") They should have the best all-around damage potential, whereas guns and other projectile weapons are weaker, but have the obvious advantage discussed over and over. Range If you got a guy with a ripper sawwing at your arm while you got a bulky long ass sniper rifle you deserve to be punished severely for not keeping out of his range or a Big Gunner getting his head busted in by a power fist or super sledge deserves to be punished in the same sense.
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Melee and Unarmed should be the most powerful weapons in game. (Notice how I said the "WEAPONS") They should have the best all-around damage potential, whereas guns and other projectile weapons are weaker, but have the obvious advantage discussed over and over. Range If you got a guy with a ripper sawwing at your arm while you got a bulky long ass sniper rifle you deserve to be punished severely for not keeping out of his range or a Big Gunner getting his head busted in by a power fist or super sledge deserves to be punished in the same sense.
True, right now they are only good as crit based, they should also have more brute style damage potential. I think the supersledge's knockback is a step in the right direction: if you get hit by that and you are solo against the attacker you are pretty much screwed.
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I'm all in favour of this suggestion here. As for what Johnnybravo said, this can be easily fixed by changing the crafting recipe from junk to metal parts/something else that is at least a bit harder to come by. Over the most recent session I have tested many, many builds with many different types of weapon skills. Specialist builds. Most have ended with a cruel fate.
One of the main problems with unarmed/melee is lack of range, it would be incredibly unrealistic to change this - so change the damage instead. If you had to do pvp with unarmed, let's say you had no options of standing down, they were between you and the exit grid, and you have to go through with it. If you run right up to the guy holding the minigun before he manages to kill you (somehow) you deserve to be able to slap his shit silly.
Something else to note: At this time, Unarmed/Melee relies on crits and crits alone, and this makes Heavy Handed probably one of the most useless traits there is. A good remedy for this is having Heavy Handed apply an extra damage % rather than "+4 melee damage" then people might actually use it, of course this would also have to be balanced with the trait's penalty.
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I agree with Savager. Meele and HtH needs a VERY GOOD boost. +1
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Yes, it may need a boost but you all must remember, If the enemy is ranged, and has the ranged, He is going to have the upper hand[Depends if he's good to :D].
( And yes if you do get the chance to go up to them and hit them, Good for you they diserve it for not running around :D )
- I like your idea.
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Perk "Undroppable" would be nice to add since you can lose your power fist if someone hits you in the hand (which doesn't make much sense since you don't carry power fist but more like wear it).
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Perk "Undroppable" would be nice to add since you can lose your power fist if someone hits you in the hand (which doesn't make much sense since you don't carry power fist but more like wear it).
Same for knuckles.
;)
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Perk "Undroppable" would be nice to add since you can lose your power fist if someone hits you in the hand (which doesn't make much sense since you don't carry power fist but more like wear it).
Pretty good idea actually, I've had my unarmed weapons dropped multiple times ending in me sometimes losing a fight or retreating, kinda made no sense.
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I got topic about buff spiked knuckles.. I told nothing about dmg, but perk would be penetrate for it (Well because it got spikes which would tear enemy leather armor easily)
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I got topic about buff spiked knuckles.. I told nothing about dmg, but perk would be penetrate for it (Well because it got spikes which would tear enemy leather armor easily)
If you are up close in a serious fight in most cases you aren't going to be aiming for armor, you are more likely to just punch them in the throat, face, eyes region then trying to wind them with solar plexus beating. I don't see why armor should affect it for most shots.
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I've just thought of a way to improve without changing damage.
Idea from Jagged Alliance 2:
Make Meele attacks cost only a few AP, something like 1 or 2.
I just noticed that against my sniper, when an enemy is lucky enough to get to me, he uses mainly his punches/knife. I just noticed that they can do nearly 6 attacks in a row, while with my DRUGGED assaulter (using G11, just to let you know) i can make only 3 aimed shots or 4 3-rounds bursts.
Actually this is quite well balanced, so i think it could work here also.
By the way, i'm playing version 1.13. Dunno if this changes something.
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IMO power armours should have a boost effect on HtH if possible, should be more powerful than mega power fist - that armour is powered at the end of the day.
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IMO power armours should have a boost effect on HtH if possible, should be more powerful than mega power fist - that armour is powered at the end of the day.
It's already there with the strenght bonus I think.
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It's already there with the strenght bonus I think.
Strength alone doesn't help with unarmed at all if I remember correctly, and unarmed weapon are only good for early farming, later on they are actually detrimental compared to the ninja-moves you can use with bare fists and legs.
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Strength alone doesn't help with unarmed at all if I remember correctly
I can be wrong as I don't use melee chars, but isn't melee damage bonus (added to max weapon damage for unarmed/melee attacks/weapon) affected by strenght? (though it may be rather useless because too small).
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If you are playing unarmed. Are wearing APA MKII and have Mega power fist equipped you should have major damage boost. If PA was designed to enable the wearer to run through a hail of gunfire to engage the enemy then shouldn't that be reflected in game.
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Maybe im wrong, but melee characters have 10str as deafult, so APA gives no boost at all.
Im not so sure about boosting melee, after thinking a while. Actually, when unarmed/melee char reach you, you are prettey dead anyway. Because of knock downs, and crippled limbs. Im not sure if damage boost cant change anything.
for balance and good mechanics, there should be huge chance to kill opponent in 3-4 turns (or that amount of hps) in proper char (just like with sniper and bg from dist). I have no idea if its true with unarmed now, but definately should be less than 3 turns, because of additional 'range' condition for unarmed/melee.
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Maybe im wrong, but melee characters have 10str as deafult, so APA gives no boost at all.
Pff, of course not, ST is needed only for unarmed to do special punches/kicks, and it's 6 if you want to do piercing kick, if you're melee, than ST equals to min. ST requirements for your weapon or 1 ST +weapon handling. Having more than 6 ST is pointless, as you'll simply spend 1 SPECIAL point on... +1 max damage? Nice joke!
Also PA/APA will be useless for unarmed/melee anyway, as player isn't idiot to run unarmed in point blank to enemy in that rare armor... if only enemy will be shocked by watching this and won't shoot him, as he would think he's a friend, because who will run into pack of enemies in that armor?
The best armor is bluesuit! It has 0 weight, it never breaks, it has immunity to bypass, you look like a troll in it, you're less likely to be shot if there're alot targets in armor and you're in bluesuit.
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And that's why melee will never work. It has to be fair and being taken seriously.
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And that's why melee will never work. It has to be fair and being taken seriously.
I've said what could make (for me) meele working without staying too time to fight with balancing.
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I think hth fighting will be a different kettle of fish once the new perks are live.
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Solar! give us info about the new perks getting aliveeee :E.
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Just clearing up some things here:
A ST of 1-6 doesnt give you any extra dmg, for every ST point over 6 you get 1 extra maxdmg. With special builds you can get the MPF damage up to 20-52 though of course the build itself would be shit.
Anyway, the super sledge is really just a fun weapon right now. The knockback is in fact just helping the opponent as he gets some extra time replenishing AP while you are running up to him. If anything, the hammer should have auto-Knockdown.
Concerning the MPF, it's actually possible to make a really good build with it, with 10lk,2-3 more crit, 1-2 toughness and 3 eyeblows in a row that can kill basically anything in 2-6 blows, depending on luck, armor and build.
I am confident that a good melee dmg build can take out even 2 enemies at once, given the right location (mines, downtown areas) and at least some good luck. However, what pisses me off is the fact that the lagging of the server has a high chance of depriving the melee attacker of his AP with one of these fake attacks that we all know and love, but most importantly that the enemy can just run away without any problems at all, aided by the lags.
One solution, though a poor looking one, would be to reduce the animation time of the melee attacks to virtually nothing. It would allow the melee to succesfully attack a 2burster without being condemned to take that second fatal burst after getting 2 shitty crits himself.
Concerning the balance, such a change would not be too overpowered as the melee still has to get close to the enemy, all while he can decide to fight or run. Even with that build with 3 attacks, you are not guaranteed to take out any enemy at once and after you have delivered your blows, you are left without any AP at all while the opponent would still have some left.
As far as I can see, this change would not affect PvE as it doesnt change the damage, just the alpha strike. For me it makes sense that in actual close quarters combat, the melee has the edge over any other build. The reality is however, that Snipers can just run away while bursters always have the odds on their side.
Either you get that KO with an estimated chance of 10-20% or you are dead.
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Solar! give us info about the new perks getting aliveeee :E.
I'm sure someone from the cbt can copy you the dodging / hth / sneak perks
I personally think that dodging on hth builds will be very handy - but then I have no real idea how any of the new perks will work out once the players get through with them!
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Seems like melees are getting flat buffs instead of being scaled up. Bluesuit heroes might rejoice, but will never make melee builds anything to be taken seriously.
Yeah, nice to have some more time to live, to knock down people by just punching them, ok. But will this ever bring people with combat armors and mega power fists?
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I don't think a tribal should use anything better then a sharpened spear or a bouncer would use something else but boxers or sledge but its only me probably I like if my chars have a limit on themselves like using mostly flamer with my flamerguy. Personally I would find the sight of a combat armor guy with unarmed or melee weapon disturbing its like using a pipe rifle in power armor which could look funny but sure its immersion breaking melee should stick to leather and metal or nude if its a tribal. I don't think that any brawling char would be good for those equipment (no one would give a combat armor to a guy who can't use a gun) however if he does it as a second skill then hell yeah, I was rolling around my char with a sniper rifle and a ripper though since I had metal armors too at that time I wore the way more cool looking metal instead of the combat armor.
It was quite good to snipe then finish with ripper in PvE it was cool in PvP (tb) it sometimes worked too.